EA Blames Casuals For Falling Old Republic Subscriber Numbers

Recommended Videos

Bryce323

New member
Oct 24, 2009
6
0
0
I hit max level fairly quickly and then did PVP. The broken Ilum, 3 warzones, and the frustration of the daily/weekly slot machine for the PVP gear grind sealed the deal for me. There wasn't enough content to justify continuing my subscription and I sure wasn't going to pay to mindlessly PVP.

I had no interest in the PVE treadmill, even if it has a new coat of space-paint. And starting another character for the story is a load of crap. So you do the unique story quest for a planet, but you still have to do ALL THE OTHER SAME VANILLA QUESTS to actually level. Sorry, not worth it.

I had hoped they'd take this MMO in another direction, that they'd differentiate themselves, but alas, it looks like they are trying even harder to conform to WoW. Blame it on the casuals, fine, lets see what they say next quarter when they lose another 400k subs.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
6,367
0
0
Mikeyfell said:
But according to the evidence they released two very bad games (DA2 ME3) in the span of making Old Republic.
One of which is arguably the most important game release in history. (Mass Effect 3 was basically the make or break moment for the future of player controlled narrative series, and to be charitable with my descriptive adjectives it was completely FUBAR)
Actually, they made one game that had mediocre parts due to recycled assets and a stylistic change in how the narrative worked (Dragon Age II), and one game that was absolutely amazing as an ending to a trilogy, which in itself had a poorly thought-out final ten minutes (Mass Effect 3). Because the internet is the internet, this then got amplified into "RAAAAAWR!! BIOWARE IS THE WORST DEVELOPER TO EVER EXIST!!!! THEY SOLD THEIR SOULS OUT TO EA!!!! I'M NEVER GOING TO SUPPORT THEM EVER AGAIN!!!!!" because the games didn't live up to either their hype or their press reviews.

Saying either of the games was "very bad" is misrepresenting the actual quality of the games in question. Daikatana is a "very bad" game. Superman 64 is a "very bad" game. Bubsy 3D is a "very bad" game. Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing is a "very bad" game. Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3 are decent games with disappointing parts and squandered potential. Ugh, I don't even know why I bother anymore, this post will probably only receive rabid attacks about how wrong I am to dare defending anything about Bioware.
 

Freechoice

New member
Dec 6, 2010
1,017
0
0
mrdude2010 said:
Freechoice said:
Kungfu_Teddybear said:
Freechoice said:
Kungfu_Teddybear said:
Freechoice said:
gmaverick019 said:
Andronicus said:
Freechoice said:
Zhukov said:
Medal of Honor made money?

[sub][sub]Must... not... add... "u"... to... "honor"[/sub][/sub]
Why the fuck do you wanna misspell it?
We could ask the same about Americans
the whole damn english language is adaptations and misspellings from other languages... way to turn this into a nationality issue.

although, to be quaint, this is an american based website, if you really wanna nitpick, it's gonna be honor.

(although the prick you quoted probably didn't realize most words are spelled different across seas, rather than all english being the same.)
HEY THANKS, BUDDY.

And I'm not the one who started it.

This [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.374462-EA-Blames-Filthy-Casuals-For-Falling-Old-Republic-Subscriber-Numbers#14508767] is the one that started it.
I'm not really seeing what Zhukov started *looks a bit closer* hmmm, it's as I suspected, he started nothing!

Seriously, he said "must not add "u" to honor" because us across the pond spell honour with a "u". Just like we spell colour with a "u" and Americans don't. It was clearly just a joke and you're the one who got all serious and jumped down his throat about it. You, sir, are the one who started it.
Uh, no. It had fuck all to do with the topic and he just did it to be a pedantic anglophone. Like every other one on this site. There is only one pedantic anglophone that manages to do it right and he's got a web series.
I think you need to go and get your bottle of warm milk and stop taking things so seriously.
Do you have an actual response or are you just going with the accusatory argument?
you were the one throwing random ad-hominem accusations around.
Uh, actually, that's not true either. I just asked him why the fuck he wanted to misspell a word. I was the one called a prick just because some guy thought I was ignorant.

Kungfu_Teddybear said:
Your original post was

A. Wrong about misspelling considering we spell honour with a u

and

B) came across as hostile with the unnecessary swear word in the post.

Now go to your corner and calm down.
Nope. Wrong on both accounts. Stop being so thin skinned and take the humor.

"Oh, dash it all. Those silly Yanks across the pond think to spell honour without the u? Preposterous! I say, my jimmies have been thoroughly rustled!"

And you're wearing a top hat and monocle, sipping earl grey, hot. That's what I imagine. This is an American site talking about an American made game and you're trying say he was right in his attempt at a joke whilst simultaneously failing to get my own.

easternflame said:
Freechoice said:
Zhukov said:
Medal of Honor made money?

[sub][sub]Must... not... add... "u"... to... "honor"[/sub][/sub]
Why the fuck do you wanna misspell it?
Because of England, unless you were being funny...?
FINALLY.



Someone with their head out of their arse able to understand a joke.
 

Kungfu_Teddybear

Member
Legacy
Jan 17, 2010
2,712
0
1
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Freechoice said:
Kungfu_Teddybear uses snip. It's super effective!
There was nothing humorous about your post. Yes you got called a prick by someone, that was unnecessary and he got the warning he deserved. But you were coming across as hostile, if it was a joke, it was a very poor one because of the display of hostility.

Although I don't think you were joking, you just said in the post I have just snipped that you thought he was being ignorant so I think you were serious.
 

Johnson McGee

New member
Nov 16, 2009
516
0
0
Impressive that he even remembered Simcity exists considering they haven't made (a real) one in years.
 

Sansha

There's a principle in business
Nov 16, 2008
1,726
0
0
kajinking said:
Think I'll just stick with EVE online, casuals don't honestly exist in that game.
Well they do. They're called 'targets'.
 

Graill

New member
Apr 5, 2012
16
0
0
Casuals are ruining their game? Thats a big laugh. Last time i checked Gamers play games, not labels that little kids use. The ONLY people ruining SWTOR are the developers.
 

elilupe

New member
Jun 1, 2009
533
0
0
I think some of these important gaming people who have all been blaming used games, casual games, and indie devs for lower-than-expected sales and falling subscriptions should take a page from Molyneux's book and realize that maybe their game isn't the perfect, innocent victim of the consumers and that there might be something wrong with their damn game.
 

kajinking

New member
Aug 12, 2009
896
0
0
Kalezian said:
kajinking said:
Think I'll just stick with EVE online, casuals don't honestly exist in that game.
Hell, hardcore players really dont exist in that game.

ITS ALL BOTS, IT HAS TO BE.

no sane person can say with a straight face that a visualization of Microsoft Excel is any fun!


OT: lol, didn't EA a while back say they were making games to appeal to a wider audience, thus casuals?

Now their prize game is losing subscribers they are complaining that it's casuals who are leaving?

Here's something, maybe if you didn't make WoW with Lightsabers, people would of like the game more.

Even in Galaxies last minutes, it still had a combat system that made it stand out, it wasn't good, but at least it was different.
I take offense at that, now if you'll excuse me I have to spend five hours doing math to figure out the theoretical DPS of my battleship if I swap out a single piece of equipment and engage targets at 45 degree angle while traveling at 107m/s with my meta 6 tracking computer set to 120% power
 

Scorpid

New member
Jul 24, 2011
814
0
0
I blame EA. I always blame EA and I always will let them rot in their stew of purely greed driven games and marketing... I dislike EA alot.
 

FFHAuthor

New member
Aug 1, 2010
687
0
0
Andronicus said:
Freechoice said:
Zhukov said:
Medal of Honor made money?

[sub][sub]Must... not... add... "u"... to... "honor"[/sub][/sub]
Why the fuck do you wanna misspell it?
We could ask the same about Americans
I always maintain, we speak 'American' over here and all you members of the Empire speak 'English'. It's only polite considering what we've done to your language.
 

Fearzone

Boyz! Boyz! Boyz!
Dec 3, 2008
1,240
0
0
John the Gamer said:
Fearzone said:
John the Gamer said:
I never played it at all. I refuse to pay monthly fees to almost any game, and MMO's are usually not worth that money. Food is. So is rent. Health insurance. Dwarf Fortress.
Health insurance isn't, if you are healthy. Maybe catastrophic insurance, but that's it, then everything else out of pocket, then have a ton of money left over to play multiple MMOs and buy better food.
Sorry, but we are forced to get basic health insurance in my country. So we have to pay up... roughly 100 euros every month. From 18 to death. And I don't play MMO just because I don't want to pay, I just don't like the damn soulsucking black holes. The only one I dabble in occassionally is World of Tanks. But then again, that one is free.
Interesting. 100 euros a month does not sound unreasonable. Might I be so bold to as what country are you from, how old are you, and is the price you pay affected by age and pre-existing conditions? PM me if you are ok answering to me but don't want to put it up on the forums. Thx =)
 

Freechoice

New member
Dec 6, 2010
1,017
0
0
Kungfu_Teddybear said:
Freechoice said:
Kungfu_Teddybear uses snip. It's super effective!
There was nothing humorous about your post. Yes you got called a prick by someone, that was unnecessary and he got the warning he deserved. But you were coming across as hostile, if it was a joke, it was a very poor one because of the display of hostility.

Although I don't think you were joking, you just said in the post I have just snipped that you thought he was being ignorant so I think you were serious.
Freechoice said:
I was the one called a prick just because some guy thought I was ignorant.
Kungfu_Teddybear said:
that you thought he was being ignorant so I think you were serious.
I see this problem on the Escapist a lot. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN1k0ZDzdHw#t=4m03s]
 

Zelcor

New member
May 13, 2009
69
0
0
Graill said:
Casuals are ruining their game? Thats a big laugh. Last time i checked Gamers play games, not labels that little kids use. The ONLY people ruining SWTOR are the developers.
Actually in MMOs the line between casuals and hardcore players is pretty damn huge.

And for years mmo developers have been making the meta-game their strongest aspect of the game specifically FOR the hardcore crowd because they know the hardcore players are not going to drop the game out of the blue keep their subscription going and play the game for hours on end
 

gbemery

New member
Jun 27, 2009
907
0
0
Obviously this means they need to change parts of the game in order to appeal to a wider audience
 

Mikeyfell

Elite Member
Aug 24, 2010
2,783
0
41
shrekfan246 said:
Mikeyfell said:
But according to the evidence they released two very bad games (DA2 ME3) in the span of making Old Republic.
One of which is arguably the most important game release in history. (Mass Effect 3 was basically the make or break moment for the future of player controlled narrative series, and to be charitable with my descriptive adjectives it was completely FUBAR)
Actually, they made one game that had mediocre parts due to recycled assets and a stylistic change in how the narrative worked (Dragon Age II), and one game that was absolutely amazing as an ending to a trilogy, which in itself had a poorly thought-out final ten minutes (Mass Effect 3). Because the internet is the internet, this then got amplified into "RAAAAAWR!! BIOWARE IS THE WORST DEVELOPER TO EVER EXIST!!!! THEY SOLD THEIR SOULS OUT TO EA!!!! I'M NEVER GOING TO SUPPORT THEM EVER AGAIN!!!!!" because the games didn't live up to either their hype or their press reviews.

Saying either of the games was "very bad" is misrepresenting the actual quality of the games in question. Daikatana is a "very bad" game. Superman 64 is a "very bad" game. Bubsy 3D is a "very bad" game. Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing is a "very bad" game. Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3 are decent games with disappointing parts and squandered potential. Ugh, I don't even know why I bother anymore, this post will probably only receive rabid attacks about how wrong I am to dare defending anything about Bioware.
As full of rabies as I am, I still see what you're getting at. In the grand scheme of things it seems crazy to call anything Bioware does "very bad"
But if you're going to put things like Daikatana on the critical spectrum you kind of waive the right to use the term "very bad" or "mediocre" or "just okay" and you end up giving every triple A game a 10/10. (Because ya' know it's still 10 arbitrary units better than Superman 64) and you're put in a very awkward position when asked to review something like Bastian. So when I say "very bad" I'm saying it in context, with a practical application of "Is it worth playing or not"

Further reading beyond this point is entirely optional.
Now that I've corrected the semantic portion of our disagreement, I'm going to make a complete ass of my self by continuing to type.

The recycled environments in Dragon Age 2 didn't even bother me. The mechanical aspect of DA2 that ruins the experience is the random "pop in" enemies. Where you'd see a platoon of guys and as soon as you engaged them ten more guys would fall out of the sky right behind you and kill Anders before you knew what was up. (And that was another thing, your party lay out was always Anders, Aveline, Varric)
But you did hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the fundamental change in the narrative. Bioware games run by a formula and there is a good reason for that. Unstoppable evil force threatens life as you know it and it's up to you and who ever you find along the way to save the day. It's as cliche as cliche gets but Bioware works wonders with it by leaving the personality and actions largely (if not completely) up to the player and populating your squad with a diverse sampling of personalities/religious beliefs/political affiliations/cultural quirks/etc. You don't have to agree with them or like them because everything is at stake and they still have to help you. In Dragon Age 2 nothing is at stake. So your party needs other reasons to stick by you.
Isabela and Varric don't want anything to do with you if you're not Goofy Hawke
Anders and Merrill shouldn't stick around if you're anti Mage
Fenris shouldn't stay if you're pro Mage
and I can't think of any reason for Aveline to do anything you say because she has better stuff going on in her own life.
So depending on your personality you'll be in the stink with 2/3 of your party at all times
Let's look at objectives.

In act one you're trying to make enough money to move out of the slums.
Why does Hawke want to do this? Mean Hawke wouldn't want to move up to Hightown. Nice Hawke wouldn't want to leave uncle what's-his-name. Maybe Goofy Hawke wants a fancy house.
Varric's cooperation is a given
Isabela owes you a favor
The other 4 have nothing to gain by helping you.

In act two you're trying to take political pressure off an inept ruler.
So we've established that Goofy Hawke is the only one who would have finished act one, but (s)he would give a crap about the Kirkwal political situation. Mean Hawke would side with the Qunari, but that's not an option. This one's for Nice Hawke then.
Aveline probably wants this taken care of.
Anders, Varric, and Merrill have no interest
Fenris wants to side with the Qunari (Which isn't an option so he's out)
Isabela wants to stay as far away from the Qunari as physically possible so she's out.
So now it's Hawke's winning personality trying to keep 5 vastly different personalities together, two of which are actively against what you're trying to do.

In act three you're running errands for the head of the Templars and Mages.
Good Hawke sides with Mages. Mean Hawke sides with the Templars. Goofy Hawke still doesn't give a fuck, but the personality choices are so fractured and extreme that they might as well all been played by different voice actors.
It's pretty clear by this point that Varric, Aveline and Isabela have no will of their own and are just along for the ride at this point.
If you've ever been pro Mage Fenris hates your guts,
On the flip side if you've ever been pro Templar Anders hates your guts.
And if you're against Blood Magic Merrill hates your guts.
So why are they all with you?

It's not only the inanity of the story that gets me. It's that at any point in the story 2/3 of the character relationships and motivations are driven by contrivances.

That you would use the word "amazing" to describe Mass Effect 3 (With out irony) is proof that you don't (or don't want to) understand how deeply or on how many levels Mass Effect 3 failed on. So I'm just going to list the failures in order of grievousness.

1) The complete lack of roll playing or player agency.
You could roll play very effectively in the first two Mass Effect games. I should know I played 7 different Shepards. Each with their own unique personality and morals.
When I jump into ME 3 all the dialog choices are boiled down to paragon and renegade options.
And for the most part your which ever choice you make is irrelevant because the Par and Ren option conveying exactly the same message.
Only having 2 dialog options means that you'll run into the awkward "But Shepard wouldn't say either of those things." moment a lot.
Also (and arguably less importantly) you'll hear all the combinations and permutations of dialog options after 4 playthroughs.
In the first 2 games Renegade Shepard could be a real prick. In ME 3 if they survived the suicide mission they're Shepard's BFF. It seriously threw me for a loop when my stone cold renegade Shep was just spilling her heart and soul to the unconscious Kaiden, without even consulting me with a dialog wheel.

2)Shift of focus from talking to listening.
There are about one third the amount of dialog wheels in ME 3 as there are in ME 2
You initiate all of your unimportant fetch quests by eavesdropping on someone's conversation. When you complete their quest you say something along the lines of "You can pick up your macguffan up in the cargo bay" The meaningless fetch guests in ME 2 were memorable and interesting. (The Krogan who wanted the Presidium fish, The Volus who lost his credit chit, The Asaris who wanted fake ID's) Do you even remember the Volus who wanted the Book of Plenix? or the doctor who wanted the Rings of Alume? No? It's because you didn't talk to them.
This even happens aboard the Normandy you get 2 dialog sessions per character. And no that is not neutralized by listening to them spout off 1 liners in between missions.
If you look at any mission in ME 2 the combat is pretty evenly broken up with talkie parts. ME 2 even had non combat missions. In ME 3 you hardly get any talkies during missions.

3)Negating important player choices
Why is Udina a councilor? I remember giving Anderson that seat.
Why is Cerberus trying to kill me? I gave them a collector base.
Why is the Rachnai queen alive? I killed her on Noveria.
Nothing changes whether you saved the council or not
Nothing changes if you turned down Spectre status in ME 2
Nothing changes if you cheat on your love interest (Repeatedly)
It didn't matter if Thane's son got arrested
It didn't matter if Tali got exiled
So much you do was just pointless
The absolute lowest point in the game is when Cerberus assaults the Citadel (Yes lower than the ending) because it was so easily avoidable by choices that you've already made in previous games. If Anderson was a councilor Udina wouldn't have been able to orchestrate a coup that easily. And if Cerberus was on my good side they wouldn't have attacked the Citadel. And it goes back to the complete lack of roll playing at the end of the mission. Maybe you want a human to take over the council. (You already saved the council's life once and it did bugger all to endear them to you, why give them a second chance.) Maybe Udina seizing power isn't such a bad thing. But they don't give you that option.

That Citadel mission is also where you meet Kai Leng and he kills Thane because Shepard stands there watching them fight (Presumably thinking "So that's how Assassins say 'hi'")

4)The ending Nope. ME 3 would still suck even if the ending was good.

4)Cheep enemies, shit controls.
almost every attack in Cerberus's arsenal is remarkably cheep. Landing grenades in your lap from half way across the field, setting up turrets that shoot you to shreds with infinite shields. Smoke that some how obstructs Biotic and Tech powers. Phantoms that flip around like freaks so much that you can't target them and instakill you the second they're close.
The Geth are hardly better with invisible shotgun Hunters and Primes that throw turrets behind cover.
And the cheapness of the enemies is just exacerbated by the fact that pushing "A" on the controller will do any one of 4 things with complete and utter randomness. You'll either start sprinting, take the nearest cover, do a barrel roll, or vault over cover if you're already in it. People usually just say I'm retarded or something but I've never once been able to do what I wanted Shepard to do when the A button was involved. Every single one of my deaths (Not an exaggeration) can be attributed the A button making Shepard do the wrong thing.

5) Tali's picture
Yeah, I know it's petty but it would have been less offensive if Tali took off her helmet and we just saw

6) The Crucible
I know I said I wasn't going to talk about the end but the Crucible isn't part of the end now is it. It's introduced in the beginning of the second mission and building it and moving it is the entire point of everything you're doing in the game. Even though nobody knows what it does. Not even you. not even after you beat the game. Not one person in any previous cycle knew what it did or how it worked but they built it anyway. And added to it's design? No one was ever able to finish it, so no one ever used it, so no one ever knew what it was supposed to do, but they still added to it's design. Does that make any sense? The Crucible is the plot hole singularity.
Some time before the Prothean cycle it was made to incorporate the Citadel, which the Reapers built, and is run by the Keepers (Who, until the Protheans were under Reaper control) So if someone before the Protheans tried hooking this thing up to the Citadel the Keepers would have told the Reapers about it.
So the plot holes are bad enough as they stand, but even perfectly executed the Crucible still introduces a jarring tonal shift into the series. Over the course of one line of dialog during the Mars mission the tone of the series changes from "Desperately fighting an overwhelming force with slim to no chance of victory" to "Build the magic 'win' button and push it"

7) The over use of Cerberus
You fight them about twice as much as you fight Reapers and about four times as much as you should (That calculation is disregarding the fact that you shouldn't be fighting them at all if you gave them the collector base)
Some examples. Cerberus shows at an STG base on the Salarian home world for no reason. Cerberus knows about an ancient Turian bomb that the Shadow Broker didn't even know about. In ME 2 it is made abundantly clear that Cerberus has limited resources and they almost broke the bank bringing Shepard back from the Dead. They should be struggling financially but they appear to have more money and power then they did last game. At one point in the game James says that Cerberus spies were working for the Collectors during the events of Mass Effect 2. (That line alone negates every thing ME 2 is based on)

8)Jessica Chobot has no business voice acting
That one's kind of self explanatory

9) They made planet scanning suck.
I didn't think planet scanning could get any worse. I was wrong. Oh god was I wrong.
9A)They took out Hacking and bypassing
I don't even know why they would do that? What did bypass ever do to them? Hell they insisted on putting Kinnect functionality into their game, why not make Kinnect hacking and bypass that might have been fun.
9B) there's no planet exploring
At least ME 2 had the Hammerhead Tank to drive around some places, but ME 3 always has you on foot.

10)I'm absolutely sure I forgot something important.
ME 3 has so much wrong with it that I can't even keep all the problems strait in my head.
This got a little away from the Old Republic didn't it.
Anyway I hope BIoware burns for their mistake.
 

John the Gamer

New member
May 2, 2010
1,021
0
0
Fearzone said:
John the Gamer said:
Fearzone said:
John the Gamer said:
I never played it at all. I refuse to pay monthly fees to almost any game, and MMO's are usually not worth that money. Food is. So is rent. Health insurance. Dwarf Fortress.
Health insurance isn't, if you are healthy. Maybe catastrophic insurance, but that's it, then everything else out of pocket, then have a ton of money left over to play multiple MMOs and buy better food.
Sorry, but we are forced to get basic health insurance in my country. So we have to pay up... roughly 100 euros every month. From 18 to death. And I don't play MMO just because I don't want to pay, I just don't like the damn soulsucking black holes. The only one I dabble in occassionally is World of Tanks. But then again, that one is free.
Interesting. 100 euros a month does not sound unreasonable. Might I be so bold to as what country are you from, how old are you, and is the price you pay affected by age and pre-existing conditions? PM me if you are ok answering to me but don't want to put it up on the forums. Thx =)
19 years old, Male, the Netherlands.

Pricing differs per insurance company, and this only covers the very basics. For things like dental health care you'll need an expanded package. It is affected by certain health conditions, my dad has diabetes and pays slightly more.

The idea is that every adult has to have the basic package(you can choose your own insurance company), and those who want more can just get an extra package. Dental health care WAS a part of the basics, but was removed due to the governmental budget cuts as per the economical crisis-solution-thing.

Here's some links. Yay! Knowledge!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands

http://www.itinerainstitute.org/upl/1/default/doc/forum%20HA%202008%20Universal%20mandatory%20HI%20in%20the%20Netherlands%20%20draft%2024jan08.pdf
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
8,405
0
0
kajinking said:
Think I'll just stick with EVE online, casuals don't honestly exist in that game.
haha, i so agreee. its hardcore of quit in there :D

Also this whole thing is basically what i said in comemnts of previuos article, people who just "tested it" has quit, the initial spike is going down. this i nothing to be worried about.
 

sifffffff

New member
Oct 28, 2011
226
0
0
Fuck that. I stopped playing when you guys told me to go fuck myself when you bastardized the ending of one of my favorite game series all together.

And TOR was fun. But it got boring quick.
 

Tanakh

New member
Jul 8, 2011
1,512
0
0
Strazdas said:
Also this whole thing is basically what i said in comemnts of previuos article, people who just "tested it" has quit, the initial spike is going down. this i nothing to be worried about.
I agree, that the behaviour of SWToR sub accounts follow exactly the pattern of smashing hits like Conan or Warhammer, while being owned by the company that forced warhammer to wait bleeding to have less than 1 k players before switching to F2P doesn't make me lose sleep.

If i had money invested in it, well, that would be another story.

Anyway, if EA manage to do things right the user base might stabilize at 1,000 k users; but seeing previous examples and having played the game my bet is it will get to around 500 k to 700k, taking into account the game was between 200 million and 500 million to develop things don't look bright for them.