EA Blames Dragon Age 2 Disappearance on Valve

[Arehexes]

Either way you can't deny that this whole ploy is just EA's way to get more money from people by cutting 3rd party percentages.

Again, that comment (especially with the whole "ploy" thing in it) really reinforces my claim that even if EA didn't do it (which all the hard facts point to this logical and sane conclusion, EA's history notwithstanding.) Valve fanboys are even MORE rabid and perform MORE impressive and complex mental gymnastics to make Valve the Robin Hood of gaming no matter what they do.

I'm not an EA fanboy. Most of my games are from Microsoft Game Studios (including my downloadable games... ilomilo is awesome).

So in short, yes, I CAN deny this is a whole "ploy" (seriously? tin-foil hat comment much?) by EA to make more money. All the evidence so far suggest it's actually Valve who is taking the game down and as long as this is the only evidence, it is the only evidence I will go off of. Drawing conclusions out of thin air such as claiming this is a "ploy" (again, ridiculous choice of word) to make money on EA's part when there is no hard evidence in this situation to point to that (if you're going to say "Because EA is a corporation." then i submit that "Valve is a corporation." because it is).

Innocent until proven guilty, or has the internet decided against that and that being judgmental is awesome and condemning things for being around a long time and making money automatically makes them cool (despite at least one of these things applying to Valve).

Again, I do not see Valve as "evil" or "bad". I see them as having the capacity to be even MORE evil (since its fanbase consists of "educated" elitists who basically run the internet and they would defend valve even if they caused a second holocaust), but they are an above-average gaming company that should probably branch out and try some new genres once in awhile. That top-down shooter "Alien Swarm" and their upcoming "DotA 2" are steps in the right direction, but as long as they keep making good games, I don't have a problem with them.... just their snarling, rabid fanbase that they keep on a chain right next to their gilded golden throne.

?Unfortunately, Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service which limit how developers interact with customers to sell downloadable content. No other download service has adopted this practice. Consequently some of our games have been removed by Steam.?

The ?restrictive terms of service? require that downloadable content for games available on Steam be available to consumers from Steam directly. However, Dragon Age II?s ?Legacy? DLC add-on is available as an in-game download. It's unclear why EA has refused to allow Steam to offer Dragon Age II DLC to customers directly, but it might have something to do with Origin, EA's own online game retailer.

DeMartini did add, ?We hope to work out an agreement to keep our games on Steam.?

This is from gamesradar about the subject. It seems it was just put the DLC on the store page for steam, which to be honest would be easy to also find since when your looking at the core game you can see the DLC listed there.

And it's funny your talking about how EA could be innocent or in the right yet as you said we don't have both sides. So for all we know maybe it is EA's fault and they beat the press to seem like the good guys.

You say Innocent until proven guilty, well you can't prove anything until we hear both sides. Like you said Valve didn't say anything yet, so aren't you just as bad as the "snarling, rabid fanbase" but for EA instead since you are on Valve's case? Because the "evidence" is just EA's word.

 

[Gather]

Can we see this service thing they have to agree to? It would be nice to have something to reference. Anyone willing to ask Gabe for it?

 

[Azaraxzealot]

This is from gamesradar about the subject. It seems it was just put the DLC on the store page for steam, which to be honest would be easy to also find since when your looking at the core game you can see the DLC listed there.

And it's funny your talking about how EA could be innocent or in the right yet as you said we don't have both sides. So for all we know maybe it is EA's fault and they beat the press to seem like the good guys.

You say Innocent until proven guilty, well you can't prove anything until we hear both sides. Like you said Valve didn't say anything yet, so aren't you just as bad as the "snarling, rabid fanbase" but for EA instead since you are on Valve's case? Because the "evidence" is just EA's word.

But you and all the other fanboys are SO hell-bent on blaming EA that even if there was video, photo, and audio evidence all pointing a finger at Valve, you all still would dismiss it as long as Valve said nothing.

Like I said, again, I'm not defending EA, i'm defending sanity and the fact that we should probably wait for more evidence to surface or go off of what we have now to draw conclusions. And even if EA did pull it, then so what? Why are you taking this opportunity to bash EA for what they may or may not have done (evidence shows they didn't)?

This is just me trying to crusade against hypocrisy, fanboyism, and double-standards. Obviously if VALVE pulled a game from another service everyone would shrug and say "Yeah, fine." But since it was EA then call everyone to the town square because there's a witch that needs a burnin'.

I have no strong feelings as to who did it for what reasons or even care what the outcome of this is. What I DO care about is the mental gymnastics of the Valve fanboys to make Valve the pope, patron saint, and deity of gaming no matter if they were right or wrong (and won't even wait until real evidence shows that they were right or wrong). I hate hypocrisy, and by GOD if this isn't a classic example of it.

Never in any of my posts did I try to vilify Valve or make EA innocent. I merely pointed out the evidence and told everyone to pay attention to that instead of instantly jumping on the "EA HATE!" bandwagon. I would be making the same arguments even if it wasn't EA and you would still be accusing me of being as bad as the rabid snarling fanbase of the Valve variety which, as I've pointed out, is never wrong in the eyes of the Escapist or any of its other fansites.

And also, discuss the issue and add more to the conversation, don't go off topic trying to slander me.

 

[Arehexes]

This is from gamesradar about the subject. It seems it was just put the DLC on the store page for steam, which to be honest would be easy to also find since when your looking at the core game you can see the DLC listed there.

And it's funny your talking about how EA could be innocent or in the right yet as you said we don't have both sides. So for all we know maybe it is EA's fault and they beat the press to seem like the good guys.

You say Innocent until proven guilty, well you can't prove anything until we hear both sides. Like you said Valve didn't say anything yet, so aren't you just as bad as the "snarling, rabid fanbase" but for EA instead since you are on Valve's case? Because the "evidence" is just EA's word.

But you and all the other fanboys are SO hell-bent on blaming EA that even if there was video, photo, and audio evidence all pointing a finger at Valve, you all still would dismiss it as long as Valve said nothing.

Like I said, again, I'm not defending EA, i'm defending sanity and the fact that we should probably wait for more evidence to surface or go off of what we have now to draw conclusions. And even if EA did pull it, then so what? Why are you taking this opportunity to bash EA for what they may or may not have done (evidence shows they didn't)?

This is just me trying to crusade against hypocrisy, fanboyism, and double-standards. Obviously if VALVE pulled a game from another service everyone would shrug and say "Yeah, fine." But since it was EA then call everyone to the town square because there's a witch that needs a burnin'.

I have no strong feelings as to who did it for what reasons or even care what the outcome of this is. What I DO care about is the mental gymnastics of the Valve fanboys to make Valve the pope, patron saint, and deity of gaming no matter if they were right or wrong (and won't even wait until real evidence shows that they were right or wrong). I hate hypocrisy, and by GOD if this isn't a classic example of it.

Never in any of my posts did I try to vilify Valve or make EA innocent. I merely pointed out the evidence and told everyone to pay attention to that instead of instantly jumping on the "EA HATE!" bandwagon. I would be making the same arguments even if it wasn't EA and you would still be accusing me of being as bad as the rabid snarling fanbase of the Valve variety which, as I've pointed out, is never wrong in the eyes of the Escapist or any of its other fansites.

And also, discuss the issue and add more to the conversation, don't go off topic trying to slander me.

I'm waiting for Valve to say something because it makes me made that I can't get EA games on the PC unless I set up ANOTHER ACCOUNT. And what evidence have you pointed out, because all I've heard from every site that covered this story is what EA said about Valve's change in policy. You say innocent until proven guilty but you will gladly call Valve out for this with out hearing their side. So how about you shut your mouth until we hear both sides so we have both sides then? I mean we haven't read the ToS EA had to agree to, we haven't heard Valve saying anything, all we have IS EA'S SIDE. So dude I like how you want to not throw a stone so fast, but you FAIL because you still throw one to fast while saying "innocent until proven guilty". SO just stop man.

Oh and if your saying I'm being slandering then what about you and how you describe people who aren't agree with you by being on Valve side, personally dude I think your a hypocrite also.

EDIT:And one more thing, could you point out (by quoting not paraphrasing please) where I was slandering you?

 

[Azaraxzealot]

you FAIL

EDIT:And one more thing, could you point out (by quoting not paraphrasing please) where I was slandering you?

not even taken out of context.

look, i never ever said that taking valve's side was bad. i said blindly defending valve with no thought that they could possibly do any wrong is bad.

because one is just "i'm standing up for what i believe in" and the other is "LALALALALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

I haven't heard one decent argument for valve other than "EA is a bunch of money grubbing pigs" (a completely subjective viewpoint, by the way)

Obviously trying to have a sane, decent argument with a bunch of fanboys isn't doing any good. I never defended EA specifically, I'm defending "Don't jump to conclusions." I never said Valve was at fault either, did i? I said they could be. And besides, what does it matter who took down what off of a site? If valve is so holy and can do no wrong they'll refund you for taking a game you paid for off their service so you can no longer access it, right?

 

[AsurasFinest]

This is from gamesradar about the subject. It seems it was just put the DLC on the store page for steam, which to be honest would be easy to also find since when your looking at the core game you can see the DLC listed there.

And it's funny your talking about how EA could be innocent or in the right yet as you said we don't have both sides. So for all we know maybe it is EA's fault and they beat the press to seem like the good guys.

You say Innocent until proven guilty, well you can't prove anything until we hear both sides. Like you said Valve didn't say anything yet, so aren't you just as bad as the "snarling, rabid fanbase" but for EA instead since you are on Valve's case? Because the "evidence" is just EA's word.

But you and all the other fanboys are SO hell-bent on blaming EA that even if there was video, photo, and audio evidence all pointing a finger at Valve, you all still would dismiss it as long as Valve said nothing.

Like I said, again, I'm not defending EA, i'm defending sanity and the fact that we should probably wait for more evidence to surface or go off of what we have now to draw conclusions. And even if EA did pull it, then so what? Why are you taking this opportunity to bash EA for what they may or may not have done (evidence shows they didn't)?

This is just me trying to crusade against hypocrisy, fanboyism, and double-standards. Obviously if VALVE pulled a game from another service everyone would shrug and say "Yeah, fine." But since it was EA then call everyone to the town square because there's a witch that needs a burnin'.

I have no strong feelings as to who did it for what reasons or even care what the outcome of this is. What I DO care about is the mental gymnastics of the Valve fanboys to make Valve the pope, patron saint, and deity of gaming no matter if they were right or wrong (and won't even wait until real evidence shows that they were right or wrong). I hate hypocrisy, and by GOD if this isn't a classic example of it.

Never in any of my posts did I try to vilify Valve or make EA innocent. I merely pointed out the evidence and told everyone to pay attention to that instead of instantly jumping on the "EA HATE!" bandwagon. I would be making the same arguments even if it wasn't EA and you would still be accusing me of being as bad as the rabid snarling fanbase of the Valve variety which, as I've pointed out, is never wrong in the eyes of the Escapist or any of its other fansites.

And also, discuss the issue and add more to the conversation, don't go off topic trying to slander me.

For the love of...
If your whole argument is based off" people are fanboys of Valve, therefore Valve must be the bad guys" save it.
We are looking at the the issue at hand, where a company is accusing the other of having restrictive terms and so pulled their games.

The obvious thing about it is that EA are launching their own service and this just coincidentally occurs around this time. You'd have to be quite literally blind to the fact that this is not a coincidence.
You'd also have to be blind to not notice that no other company has this issue with Valve at all except EA.

Now lets look at the history of both companies. One is known for shutting down branches of its own company after ruining it with executive meddling, treating its consumers like criminals and trying to nickel and dime them for everything they have.
The other gives the community free content, does regular sales despite not needing to,takes regular feedback and generally are decent all around.

Yeah I wonder which one I should trust
Seriously if your argument is based off of" herp derp people blindly praise Valve, which means I've got to say that despite the facts and histories of both companies, that EA is in the right" then you can stop right now.

 

[Arehexes]

you FAIL

EDIT:And one more thing, could you point out (by quoting not paraphrasing please) where I was slandering you?

not even taken out of context.

look, i never ever said that taking valve's side was bad. i said blindly defending valve with no thought that they could possibly do any wrong is bad.

because one is just "i'm standing up for what i believe in" and the other is "LALALALALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

I haven't heard one decent argument for valve other than "EA is a bunch of money grubbing pigs" (a completely subjective viewpoint, by the way)

Obviously trying to have a sane, decent argument with a bunch of fanboys isn't doing any good. I never defended EA specifically, I'm defending "Don't jump to conclusions." I never said Valve was at fault either, did i? I said they could be. And besides, what does it matter who took down what off of a site? If valve is so holy and can do no wrong they'll refund you for taking a game you paid for off their service so you can no longer access it, right?

Fine I'll take the "you fail", but your argument is pretty much "Fan boys are blind, you won't defend EA so your blind and your argument sucks". I mean like I said we never heard Valve's side, but EA is pretty much known for a bad track record and with origin coming out (And Battlefield 3 not going out on steam but on Origin gee that's not odd at all).

Also it kinda does matter who took what off, if it was Valve then that means they won't work with EA and if it's EA then it means they will saw screw Valve and we will use Origin.

This is from gamesradar about the subject. It seems it was just put the DLC on the store page for steam, which to be honest would be easy to also find since when your looking at the core game you can see the DLC listed there.

And it's funny your talking about how EA could be innocent or in the right yet as you said we don't have both sides. So for all we know maybe it is EA's fault and they beat the press to seem like the good guys.

You say Innocent until proven guilty, well you can't prove anything until we hear both sides. Like you said Valve didn't say anything yet, so aren't you just as bad as the "snarling, rabid fanbase" but for EA instead since you are on Valve's case? Because the "evidence" is just EA's word.

But you and all the other fanboys are SO hell-bent on blaming EA that even if there was video, photo, and audio evidence all pointing a finger at Valve, you all still would dismiss it as long as Valve said nothing.

Like I said, again, I'm not defending EA, i'm defending sanity and the fact that we should probably wait for more evidence to surface or go off of what we have now to draw conclusions. And even if EA did pull it, then so what? Why are you taking this opportunity to bash EA for what they may or may not have done (evidence shows they didn't)?

This is just me trying to crusade against hypocrisy, fanboyism, and double-standards. Obviously if VALVE pulled a game from another service everyone would shrug and say "Yeah, fine." But since it was EA then call everyone to the town square because there's a witch that needs a burnin'.

I have no strong feelings as to who did it for what reasons or even care what the outcome of this is. What I DO care about is the mental gymnastics of the Valve fanboys to make Valve the pope, patron saint, and deity of gaming no matter if they were right or wrong (and won't even wait until real evidence shows that they were right or wrong). I hate hypocrisy, and by GOD if this isn't a classic example of it.

Never in any of my posts did I try to vilify Valve or make EA innocent. I merely pointed out the evidence and told everyone to pay attention to that instead of instantly jumping on the "EA HATE!" bandwagon. I would be making the same arguments even if it wasn't EA and you would still be accusing me of being as bad as the rabid snarling fanbase of the Valve variety which, as I've pointed out, is never wrong in the eyes of the Escapist or any of its other fansites.

And also, discuss the issue and add more to the conversation, don't go off topic trying to slander me.

For the love of...
If your whole argument is based off" people are fanboys of Valve, therefore Valve must be the bad guys" save it.
We are looking at the the issue at hand, where a company is accusing the other of having restrictive terms and so pulled their games.

The obvious thing about it is that EA are launching their own service and this just coincidentally occurs around this time. You'd have to be quite literally blind to the fact that this is not a coincidence.
You'd also have to be blind to not notice that no other company has this issue with Valve at all except EA.

Now lets look at the history of both companies. One is known for shutting down branches of its own company after ruining it with executive meddling, treating its consumers like criminals and trying to nickel and dime them for everything they have.
The other gives the community free content, does regular sales despite not needing to,takes regular feedback and generally are decent all around.

Yeah I wonder which one I should trust
Seriously if your argument is based off of" herp derp people blindly praise Valve, which means I've got to say that despite the facts and histories of both companies, that EA is in the right" then you can stop right now.

The sad thing is he said innocent until proven guilty but Valve never stepped up to say their said so his argument would be moot. He fights "fan boys", yet a lot of people want to know what Valve said (I know I do).

 

[Galliam]

All this fighting about it is more annoying than the game being gone. Its dropped from ONE DDS service and everybody starts kicking dirt at eachother.

EA is a business that released a game, and if they so choose, they can distribute said game and DLC however they want. Choosing to not continue it on steam is their choice if steam's TOS doesn't allow them to distribute how they want.

You're getting all frothy at a company making a decision.

Steam can remove a game from its store if the company violates the TOS. Also, nothing wrong with this.

We don't know what happened, but theres no sense in faulting whichever company we seem to dislike more. I'd laugh if it turned out to be steam that was in the wrong, no matter how unlikely I think that may be.

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

It's basically a case of two companies whining over money. not that its a common thing, but its pathetic the way both of them are going about it.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

I mean like I said we never heard Valve's side, but EA is pretty much known for a bad track record and with origin coming out (And Battlefield 3 not going out on steam but on Origin gee that's not odd at all).

Also it kinda does matter who took what off, if it was Valve then that means they won't work with EA and if it's EA then it means they will saw screw Valve and we will use Origin.

So? They have a bad track record. EA is a corporation, they make a lot of unpopular decisions for the sake of money. That shouldn't be news to either of us. But Valve is ALSO a corporation, they've probably made some unpopular decisions as well, but everyone refuses to see them because that might mean valve isn't perfect. I never tried to argue Valve was evil. Just that it may have taken down Dragon Age 2 and the evidence looks that way. I never said it was for sure. I never said they were evil, I just said they may have done this specific thing and people should stop treating any company like the devil incarnate for their name so much as APPEARING next to Valve's or even HINTING at the POSSIBILITY of valve being imperfect.

For the love of...
If your whole argument is based off" people are fanboys of Valve, therefore Valve must be the bad guys" save it.
We are looking at the the issue at hand, where a company is accusing the other of having restrictive terms and so pulled their games.

The obvious thing about it is that EA are launching their own service and this just coincidentally occurs around this time. You'd have to be quite literally blind to the fact that this is not a coincidence.
You'd also have to be blind to not notice that no other company has this issue with Valve at all except EA.

Now lets look at the history of both companies. One is known for shutting down branches of its own company after ruining it with executive meddling, treating its consumers like criminals and trying to nickel and dime them for everything they have.
The other gives the community free content, does regular sales despite not needing to,takes regular feedback and generally are decent all around.

Yeah I wonder which one I should trust
Seriously if your argument is based off of" herp derp people blindly praise Valve, which means I've got to say that despite the facts and histories of both companies, that EA is in the right" then you can stop right now.

[/quote]

I wasn't saying Valve was evil. Look at every single comment I've made in this thread (or in all my history). I said their fanbase is a rabid dog that mauls anything that so much as looks at Valve funny, but I never said Valve did anything "wrong" or accused them of any wrongdoing whatsoever. So put away your Valve-brand pitchfork and torch and be reasonable.

All i said was Valve may have pulled Dragon Age 2 off of steam and the evidence looks that way. If this makes Valve look evil to you and you think that obviously merits you burning me at the stake then you should probably realize you may be proving my point by simply refuting it.

And simply saying "EA is wrong and evil because they did this in their past." is like accusing a litterer or vandal of murder because, hey, they've done bad things before, OBVIOUSLY that means they committed the murder too!

My argument was so far from " herp derp people blindly praise Valve, which means I've got to say that despite the facts and histories of both companies, that EA is in the right", i was merely pointing out that EA may not have pulled Dragon Age 2 and that it may have been Valve's decision. Go ahead, take your time reading all of my arguments and try to find where, specifically, I said that.

People blindly praising Valve bugs the hell out of me, as does anyone who blindly praises the fuck out of everything. I hate fanboys. Period. They will jump to the defense of whatever they are a fanboy of even if they murdered every baby in the world and fed them to rich, fat, republicans whilst voting for gay marriage to be banned.

Again, in all my arguments, I was merely saying that Valve may have pulled Dragon Age 2. If that's wrong, then I'll leave that up to everyone else because I never use Steam. But I was also pointing out that even if Valve WAS doing something wrong, valve would never need to defend itself because its metaphorical pet dragon (its fanboys) will shred anyone who dares to even IMPLY that valve may have done something even REMOTELY bad.

As evidenced by your response to my rational arguments, which weren't even trying to insult valve in the first place.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

What's with all the false equivalency posts? I feel like idiot right-wingers have infiltrated the gaming forum.

We live in a real world of facts. Some of these facts generate patterns of behavior, and we use those patterns to establish a basis for character evaluation.

Valve refused to play the DLC game on 360 because they didn't want to charge console gamers for content that PC gamers received for free. If you're some kind of helmet kid, I understand why you might view this as Valve screwing console gamers. You're a helmet kid, after all. Everyone else saw this for exactly what it was: MS trying to scam more money off its customers by charging for stuff that is free elsewhere, and Valve saying no. If that doesn't scream to you "defender of the little guy", then you are, again, probably wearing a helmet right now.

EA is the publisher that put out a game with an actual NPC, fully rendered, sitting in your camp asking you to give them more money. EA is the publisher constantly releasing 1-2 hour DLC for $6-7. EA is the publisher that purchased exclusive rights to the NFL license when a competitor had the audacity to release a very comparable product for less than half the price.

Now you could be the kind of person who says "past behavior is no guarantee that Valve is in the right and EA is in the wrong here". You're totally free to hold that sort of belief. Just stay the fuck away from anything important in this world, if you please. The rest of us are relying on intelligent, logical, reasonable people to make informed decisions.

For the record, I enjoy a good contrarian. Good contrarians use facts. If you don't have them, you've no leg to stand on here. You're just being difficult for the sake of it, or to stand out in the crowd, which is one of the most pathetically primitive impulses of our species.

 

[fletch_talon]

Isn't it interesting that Valve wouldn't put TF2 DLC on the Xbox market place, because they wanted to distribute DLC for free and Microsoft wouldn't let them.
And now, they are in Microsoft's shoes, trying to tell another developer how they are allowed to distribute their DLC.

Seems a tad hypocritical to me.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

Isn't it interesting that Valve wouldn't put TF2 DLC on the Xbox market place, because they wanted to distribute DLC for free and Microsoft wouldn't let them.
And now, they are in Microsoft's shoes, trying to tell another developer how they are allowed to distribute their DLC.

Seems a tad hypocritical to me.

Yes, that's the correct assumption. The company that previously turned down free money for no apparent reason is probably in the wrong here, and the company that has repeatedly demonstrated utter disregard for its customers is probably in the right. That's exactly what any intelligent, logical, reasonable person would glean from what we've been given. You're a credit to your species, sir.

The funniest bit in all of this: anyone that defends EA on the basis of what the PR machine is spitting at us. They tell us exactly what they want us to hear in order to cultivate a very specific and beneficial (for them) idea as to what's gone on here.

I don't know which is funnier: that the PR machine is clearly working on some people, or that those same people (by virtue of buying EA games) actually paid for said PR machine to mislead them.

 

[fletch_talon]

Isn't it interesting that Valve wouldn't put TF2 DLC on the Xbox market place, because they wanted to distribute DLC for free and Microsoft wouldn't let them.
And now, they are in Microsoft's shoes, trying to tell another developer how they are allowed to distribute their DLC.

Seems a tad hypocritical to me.

Yes, that's the correct assumption. The company that previously turned down free money for no apparent reason is probably in the wrong here, and the company that has repeatedly demonstrated utter disregard for its customers is probably in the right. That's exactly what any intelligent, logical, reasonable person would glean from what we've been given. You're a credit to your species, sir.

The funniest bit in all of this: anyone that defends EA on the basis of what the PR machine is spitting at us. They tell us exactly what they want us to hear in order to cultivate a very specific and beneficial (for them) idea as to what's gone on here.

I don't know which is funnier: that the PR machine is clearly working on some people, or that those same people (by virtue of buying EA games) actually paid for said PR machine to mislead them.

What any intelligent, logical, reasonable person would assume from the information given is exactly what I said. Valve wish to have a say in how EA distribute their own DLC and are removing titles from their catalogue that don't allow that.
Now I don't recall saying that they were in the wrong in their refusal to cave in to Microsoft, quite the contrary, its admirable that they wish to provide their players with free stuff. But in this situation, ignoring all their past behaviours, they appear to be in the wrong.

Perhaps if you turned off the bias for a little, you could see where others are coming from.

Oh and it wouldn't hurt to stop criticising people's intelligence. It makes you look like an elitist prick and your intelligent facade suffers for it.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

What's with all the false equivalency posts? I feel like idiot right-wingers have infiltrated the gaming forum.

We live in a real world of facts. Some of these facts generate patterns of behavior, and we use those patterns to establish a basis for character evaluation.

Valve refused to play the DLC game on 360 because they didn't want to charge console gamers for content that PC gamers received for free. If you're some kind of helmet kid, I understand why you might view this as Valve screwing console gamers. You're a helmet kid, after all. Everyone else saw this for exactly what it was: MS trying to scam more money off its customers by charging for stuff that is free elsewhere, and Valve saying no. If that doesn't scream to you "defender of the little guy", then you are, again, probably wearing a helmet right now.

EA is the publisher that put out a game with an actual NPC, fully rendered, sitting in your camp asking you to give them more money. EA is the publisher constantly releasing 1-2 hour DLC for $6-7. EA is the publisher that purchased exclusive rights to the NFL license when a competitor had the audacity to release a very comparable product for less than half the price.

Now you could be the kind of person who says "past behavior is no guarantee that Valve is in the right and EA is in the wrong here". You're totally free to hold that sort of belief. Just stay the fuck away from anything important in this world, if you please. The rest of us are relying on intelligent, logical, reasonable people to make informed decisions.

For the record, I enjoy a good contrarian. Good contrarians use facts. If you don't have them, you've no leg to stand on here. You're just being difficult for the sake of it, or to stand out in the crowd, which is one of the most pathetically primitive impulses of our species.

Isn't it interesting that Valve wouldn't put TF2 DLC on the Xbox market place, because they wanted to distribute DLC for free and Microsoft wouldn't let them.
And now, they are in Microsoft's shoes, trying to tell another developer how they are allowed to distribute their DLC.

Seems a tad hypocritical to me.

Why hello there! You must be talking about me, right? (talking to Trainwreck here)
Anyways, patterns of behavior are how logical conclusions are drawn when investigating something, correct?
Well what if that was our ONLY evidence, would that stand up in court?
Could you honestly stand before a judge and say "Your honor, the defendant is guilty because he is a jerk who wants a lot of money out of me." and hope to win?

That's quite a logical fallacy there.

Valve is a cool company that thinks of its fans a lot, but not all the time. Remember, they are still a COMPANY, and as such they need money to keep running.

But I digress.

I argue that Valve may have taken down Dragon Age 2 and EA is calling them out on it. That's all we have to go off of right now. If we want to start bringing in speculation and track records then we may as well grab our Valve-brand pitchforks and torches because there's a witch that needs a burnin'!

Arguing that valve is always in the right because they "fight for the consumer" is a vague statement at best. Who's to say they always do? Is this a general rule? Why are generalities being brought into this? I thought this was pretty straightforward, Valve may have taken down Dragon Age 2.

I never said they did for sure. But why would EA just bold-facilely lie? You know that it's against the law for them to do something like that and they could be sued for slander, right?

EA is a corporation, so yes, they are evil in the eyes of the internet and have a "bad" track record. Personally I'm no fan of how they operate their little project 10 dollar either because there's so much DLC i want for my Mass Effect 2 that I can't get without paying 15 fucking dollars (I'M PRETTY SURE 15 =/= 10 EA!), but that doesn't make them instantly wrong in any situation they find themselves in, but this isn't about personal hatreds is it?

It's about what happened. And it seems that what happened is Valve's policy about DLC caused Dragon Age 2 to be booted off of Steam by Valve. Apparently EA's word is no good so there is no "official" confirmation, but as far as it goes, we should all be open to the possibility that Valve may have taken Dragon Age 2 down on its own accord and not jump on the EA hate bandwagon just yet.

 

[AsurasFinest]

I mean like I said we never heard Valve's side, but EA is pretty much known for a bad track record and with origin coming out (And Battlefield 3 not going out on steam but on Origin gee that's not odd at all).

Also it kinda does matter who took what off, if it was Valve then that means they won't work with EA and if it's EA then it means they will saw screw Valve and we will use Origin.

So? They have a bad track record. EA is a corporation, they make a lot of unpopular decisions for the sake of money. That shouldn't be news to either of us. But Valve is ALSO a corporation, they've probably made some unpopular decisions as well, but everyone refuses to see them because that might mean valve isn't perfect. I never tried to argue Valve was evil. Just that it may have taken down Dragon Age 2 and the evidence looks that way. I never said it was for sure. I never said they were evil, I just said they may have done this specific thing and people should stop treating any company like the devil incarnate for their name so much as APPEARING next to Valve's or even HINTING at the POSSIBILITY of valve being imperfect.

For the love of...
If your whole argument is based off" people are fanboys of Valve, therefore Valve must be the bad guys" save it.
We are looking at the the issue at hand, where a company is accusing the other of having restrictive terms and so pulled their games.

The obvious thing about it is that EA are launching their own service and this just coincidentally occurs around this time. You'd have to be quite literally blind to the fact that this is not a coincidence.
You'd also have to be blind to not notice that no other company has this issue with Valve at all except EA.

Now lets look at the history of both companies. One is known for shutting down branches of its own company after ruining it with executive meddling, treating its consumers like criminals and trying to nickel and dime them for everything they have.
The other gives the community free content, does regular sales despite not needing to,takes regular feedback and generally are decent all around.

Yeah I wonder which one I should trust
Seriously if your argument is based off of" herp derp people blindly praise Valve, which means I've got to say that despite the facts and histories of both companies, that EA is in the right" then you can stop right now.

A rational argument does not base itself off hate of "fanboys" . Noone is praising Valve up the wazoo. We are all looking at whats being said by EA's PR.
Why would they pull DA2 and not other games which also sell their own stuff from their stores?
It makes no sense unless you look at the fact EA are launching Origins, but apparentlly logic has no place in your mind if you can't put two and two together

Looking at history as well determines what something would do. If someone is a compulsive liar and tells me that an honest man cheated on his wife, do you think I'm just going to assume the honest man did at face value without finding out myself or do you want me to trust the compulsive liar right away?

Your arguments are not based in reality, they are based on your dislike of people praising Valve, rather than looking at the business practices of both and the current events surrounding them.

Ea launches Origin, wants it to be big like Steam and starts offering games like BF3 exclusively on it.
Now how is it out of the realms of possibility that company like EA, a company that makes Segas marketing when they were competing with Nintendo look like pure genius, would attempt to discredit the biggest service in order to get people to move over to their own?

This is not hard stuff to put together and its all anyone was saying, but people like you have been coming in and accusing anyone who didn't put the most rational links together of being Valve "fanboys".

 

[samsonguy920]

With all this that is coming from EA, I hope people who get Origin do everything they can to limit what info they give from the getgo. For starters, if you can't enter payment info temporarily that best be setting off alarms.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

snip

Still doesn't change the fact that most of your arguments revolve around "EA is just evil. and Valve is God." and a bunch of logical fallacies with no evidence to back up any of your claims.

And your compulsive liar argument is also a logical fallacy because we're assuming EA is a compulsive liar, which, in this case, if they're lying they can get sued. Why would EA want to get sued? THAT is a logical question to consider.

Make logical arguments backed up with hard evidence or else you're talking in circles.

And besides, again, my only claim here is that Valve MAY have taken Dragon Age 2 down. You won't even allow that to be a POSSIBILITY.

Thus it makes all your arguments invalid, because you won't even allow for the possibility of something to be imperfect and possibly do something you don't like. That makes you a fanboy.

Therefore you can not have an objective and unbiased remark.

You wouldn't let a racist be a prosecutor in a trial against someone who isn't white, and you wouldn't get a jury of all white supremacists to judge the same individual.

So why should a fanboy be allowed to pass judgement on a company that is stating that its product was pulled from Steam because of a rule steam made that doesn't allow them to control what their product can do when they are a fanboy of the company that pulled it?

 

[AsurasFinest]

snip

Still doesn't change the fact that most of your arguments revolve around "EA is just evil. and Valve is God." and a bunch of logical fallacies with no evidence to back up any of your claims.

And your compulsive liar argument is also a logical fallacy because we're assuming EA is a compulsive liar, which, in this case, if they're lying they can get sued. Why would EA want to get sued? THAT is a logical question to consider.

Make logical arguments backed up with hard evidence or else you're talking in circles.

And besides, again, my only claim here is that Valve MAY have taken Dragon Age 2 down. You won't even allow that to be a POSSIBILITY.

Thus it makes all your arguments invalid, because you won't even allow for the possibility of something to be imperfect and possibly do something you don't like. That makes you a fanboy.

Therefore you can not have an objective and unbiased remark.

You wouldn't let a racist be a prosecutor in a trial against someone who isn't white, and you wouldn't get a jury of all white supremacists to judge the same individual.

So why should a fanboy be allowed to pass judgement on a company that is stating that its product was pulled from Steam because of a rule steam made that doesn't allow them to control what their product can do when they are a fanboy of the company that pulled it?

Are you that naieve? Company's lie ALL THE TIME
Just like people do in real life, except that with corporations of EA's size, the conseuqences of being found out are significantly graver, but whos going to out them?

As for treating them like gods? Its like you ignored the bit where we look at companies actions and past history to judge the validity of what their saying.
Besides that why would Valve want DA2 down purposely, when they have left other games up with the exact same online store?
See the logic behind this? do you comprehend it yet or do we need to beat it into your head?

Valve are not perfect, anyone with a functioning brain could tell you this. What anyone with a brain will tell you, is that EA are doing a public smear campaign, much like polticians do to other politcians in order to lower their popularity.

Just stop and think for a moment,what would Valve have to gain by denying them service and what does EA gain from saying its their fault? If you aren't as naieve as I think you are and have a ounce of logic it should be pretty goddamn clear to see whose at fault here.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

snip

How many times do I have to say that Valve MAY have done it? Not that they DID do it.

And how many times do I have to re-iterate that Valve is a COMPANY as well. Have you ever stopped to consider that Valve would do this in order to make everyone think EA was trying to run a smear campaign against them?

it sounds about as logical as what you're suggesting, and even more so because THAT plan would be working. and besides, it has been confirmed on NUMEROUS sites that this is Valve's doing, not EA's.