EA Blames Dragon Age 2 Disappearance on Valve

[Arehexes]

EA might be the evil empire but I think they might be in the right here. Why SHOULD DLC be forced to sell through a 3'rd party? Does that party contribute anything to said DLC besides taking a cut?

If I were selling DLC to a game I had on Steam I'd totally share EA's opinion on this. As a popular piracy prevention distributor, Valve already got their cut. Why should I pay them an extra cut for DLC if I can handle the distribution of that without them?

If you use their service you have to pay a fee if that's in the rules, hell Microsoft won't let valve update TF2 because the updates were two big. More or less what you are saying is I want to sell my product in your store but I want to put adds on for the product in your store but not give you a cut. If I recall right Free to Play Steam games can sell their own dlc through their game and steam isn't upset about it.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Permalink

This whole thing evokes the image of EA with a massively powerful long barreled sniper rifle, with laser scope, state of the art heat mapping, and GPS lock-on, taking precise aim at their own foot.

 

[Arehexes]

steam is not a prophet of chirst (which the greater PC gaming community believes valve to be), if they do something questionable or bad it means they're just as fallible as any other game company!

It may very well be that Valve is "in the wrong" here (these are business decisions, not really right or wrong).

But don't you think it's fishy that only EA games (and only recent and well-sold ones) are being pulled out from Steam? I've bought plenty of DLC outside of steam for games I owned in Steam, like Mass Effect 2. In this thread many people mentioned examples of games that sell DLC outside of Steam. Yet no one else is complaining and pulling their games from Steam.

You accuse people of blindly following and defending Valve, but maybe you suffer from the reverse problem, and your hatred for Valve/Steam is clouding your judgment.

i don't have a hatred for valve. i have a hatred for ignorance, and people ignorantly defending Valve even if they ate puppies and shat pure malevolence pisses me off. for the record, i like a lot of valve's games, i'm just not amazed by them because they're mostly all linear FPS games or Multiplayer focused ones meant to show off their fancy engine. i wish they would branch out and try new things that weren't all in the first person perspective, but i don't hate them.

i just wish people (especially PC gamers and the Escapist) would take their mouths off of Valve's.... hand for a moment so that they can see that they're just as flawed a developer as every other one and that they are still a corporation and sometimes will do things for the sake of "CHA-CHING!" rather than the adoration of their fans.

If that's hatred then I must be Hitler-Incarnate for the mere notion of suggesting that Valve was fallible and isn't the second coming of gaming jesus.

Well with EA's practice's and how they want to make sure they will get your money I can see why people would defend Valve. I mean you have to buy a game new from EA if you wanna access data on the disc (single player included), and they complain about not being able to sell DLC, but I'm pretty sure the Free to Play MMO's have paid for DLC. Hell how many companies have complained about Valve's practices, and also how many started their own service? Indie or big company doesn't seem to mind the practice. And I love how you have a problem with people defending a company they like that you have a problem with, your no more important then others so I don't know why you feel the need to go after the fans.

 

[Irridium]

Can anyone who bought the first DA answer this question: If I bought DLC through DA, does it show up on my Steam account (right click on game and "view downloadable content") or is it only on my EA Account?

EA account. Pretty sure you'd have to go to the Bioware Social Network to download/install it.

It's an annoying and obtuse system.

 

[Jun_Jun]

Oh god is it that time for Extra Credits to write another open letter to EA? xD
I don't know why EA is really bothering with this drama, everyone I know hates them, and they think that if they have a hissy fit with Valve it's going to get better?
I side with Valve on this all the way they run a service for these companies and they have a ToS that I'm assuming EA must've skimmed through before agreeing to, so they shouldn't be suddenly wondering why if Valve cuts off their service for violating their ToS they're completely within their rights.

 

[Jaime_Wolf]

Simple: EA wants some of that sweet, sweet Steam money.

They know that people will want to play their games regardless of how they publish them, so they can get away with any sort of DRM or distribution scheme they want. EA is probably the worst publisher in terms of the "producers vs. consumers" mentality that pervades all of the big players.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

And I love how you have a problem with people defending a company they like that you have a problem with, your no more important then others so I don't know why you feel the need to go after the fans.

I have no problem with people defending a company they like, but I DO have a problem with them defending it without even knowing what they're defending it against or bothering to determine if their favorite company is in the right or wrong.

That just makes them little more than a troll or fanboy.

The facts state that "Steam took down Dragon Age 2." That's it. Those are the facts.

Valve fanboys are arguing against this, stating that its all EA's doing and that they should admit it's a marketing ploy.

Which one of these arguments DOESN'T reek of tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theory? Because that's the one I'm going with, and I REALLY hate it when fanboys (or anyone, especially FOX News) try to alter the very fabric of reality and twist facts and information to suit their own needs. Just look at all the sensationalist bullshit and mental gymnastics that are going on in this news thread just to justify that Valve is infallible and the second coming of gaming christ.

Besides, if SOMEONE doesn't point out the blatant hypocrisy and ignorance and takes a stand against it, who will? I know I'm not the only one.

Also, I never said I hated Valve or Steam. I have problems with them (and digital distribution in general), but I know there's nothing TOO bad about them, and Valve does what they do very well, I just want to see them try new things, venture into new territory for once.

 

[Pandabearparade]

Stop lying EA...we know you did it.

Well said. That's exactly how I feel.

Valve hasn't said anything about it, which leads me to believe that EA is just trying to stir a problem for the publicity. That makes for cheaper advertising than paying for banner ads.

Though, honestly.. does EA think people actually care about Dragon Age II? It's a mediocre game released like six months ago. Nothing of value lost from Steam, in my view.

 

[ResonanceSD]

(I would struggle to name a publisher that has provided a decent download service, or that can even maintain good servers for its own games half the time)

Blizzard?

Sorry, just had to say that.

Also, y'know. VALVE. *Shakes TF2 playing fist at you*

 

[Azaraxzealot]

Stop lying EA...we know you did it.

Well said. That's exactly how I feel.

Valve hasn't said anything about it, which leads me to believe that EA is just trying to stir a problem for the publicity. That makes for cheaper advertising than paying for banner ads.

Though, honestly.. does EA think people actually care about Dragon Age II? It's a mediocre game released like six months ago. Nothing of value lost from Steam, in my view.

Valve isn't saying anything because it knows its hordes of brainwashed fanboys will do all the work for them. Just look at this thread for evidence.

Valve could start a puppy strangling business and host crack-baby fighting matches and still be considered perfect by people like the ones in this thread. They'll defend Valve against anything.

So far, the only hard evidence we have to go off of is "Valve took down Dragon Age 2." that's it. Saying anything else is just trying to start up some conspiracy-theory bullshit.

 

[Von Strimmer]

EDIT: And all this seems eerily similar to the TF2 console situation don't it? Microsoft wanted Valve to charge console players for DLC for TF2. Valve said no and walked away with all of it. So now the PC version of TF2 gets showered with DLC on a monthly basis while the console versions haven't even seen a drop of it for years, and they're still the poster boy company that can do no wrong.

it's not similar, it's almost the opposite.

Valve gives their DLC for free, but microsoft doesn't allow free DLC. Valve doesn't think it's console users should have to pay for something their PC users get for free so they refuse to sell it.


I don't get why you'd get all angry and hateful because the company is trying to give you stuff for free. /shrugs

Bullshit it's about not being able to give stuff for free . What kind of dumb-arse company gives away free stuff when they can make money off it? I think Microsoft and EA are in the right here and don't want to be screwed over by the same distribution company.

I put it to all of you that if Gamestop or EB Games were to replace Valve in this situation the responses would be more "evil corporation" this and "They dont contribute why should they get money" that.

 

[Arehexes]

And I love how you have a problem with people defending a company they like that you have a problem with, your no more important then others so I don't know why you feel the need to go after the fans.

I have no problem with people defending a company they like, but I DO have a problem with them defending it without even knowing what they're defending it against or bothering to determine if their favorite company is in the right or wrong.

That just makes them little more than a troll or fanboy.

The facts state that "Steam took down Dragon Age 2." That's it. Those are the facts.

Valve fanboys are arguing against this, stating that its all EA's doing and that they should admit it's a marketing ploy.

Which one of these arguments DOESN'T reek of tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theory? Because that's the one I'm going with, and I REALLY hate it when fanboys (or anyone, especially FOX News) try to alter the very fabric of reality and twist facts and information to suit their own needs. Just look at all the sensationalist bullshit and mental gymnastics that are going on in this news thread just to justify that Valve is infallible and the second coming of gaming christ.

Besides, if SOMEONE doesn't point out the blatant hypocrisy and ignorance and takes a stand against it, who will? I know I'm not the only one.

Also, I never said I hated Valve or Steam. I have problems with them (and digital distribution in general), but I know there's nothing TOO bad about them, and Valve does what they do very well, I just want to see them try new things, venture into new territory for once.

Either way you can't deny that this whole ploy is just EA's way to get more money from people by cutting 3rd party percentages. EA is known to do this, project 10 dollar is a rip and it's a problem I have when it comes to the point where single player games have to have some code to access data that odds are already on the disc. And companies who pull this stupid stunt is really double dipping into the consumer base, because I was under the thought that if you sold your game you transfer the rights to play it. I mean it's not like if I sold you Halo Reach I can still play it and so can you.

I'm sorry with this fight I'm siding with Valve because hell I'm even hearing that Battlefield 3 will be on other DD services that isn't Steam. So go figure with that.

 

[-Torchedini-]

While everyone is hating at ea I do think that the rule valve made that dlc needed to be sold through steam is a bridge too far.

 

[Aprilgold]

Can anyone be sure it just wasn't a matter of good taste in games on Valve's part? I know if I operated a digital distribution platform for games I'd insist that weren't stagnant piles of maggot covered dog shit before offering to sell them. Sadly, Dragon Age 2 wouldn't make the cut in that case as to call it a pile of maggot covered dog shit would be giving both maggots and dog shit a huge disservice.

It was probably EA for the reason that their money grubbing bastards [check ALL of their Day One DLC's] And that they had already went against Steams Terms of Service, and Valve let them on their platform for a few more months, any game being removed from Steam is because EA has bad buisness sense when trying to copoperate with any team, for this I'm going to use Pandemic Studios [guys that made Destroy All Humans] they were bought out from EA and only published 1 game before they got canned, this is simply they couldn't keep the talent EVEN THOUGH they had the money to support it, they buy out studios, they make a game, then they are canned, EA has bad buisness sense with its customers, with other developers, and, at times, with itself. I'm not gettting any more EA titles until Origin dies, and it will because no one wants to play one developers stew all the time, and I wouldn't be surprised if EA will be digging their own grave by doing this, to note, EA is money grubbing bastards, point is right there.

 

[Arehexes]

I just wanna put this here

?Unfortunately, Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service which limit how developers interact with customers to sell downloadable content. No other download service has adopted this practice. Consequently some of our games have been removed by Steam.?

The ?restrictive terms of service? require that downloadable content for games available on Steam be available to consumers from Steam directly. However, Dragon Age II?s ?Legacy? DLC add-on is available as an in-game download. It's unclear why EA has refused to allow Steam to offer Dragon Age II DLC to customers directly, but it might have something to do with Origin, EA's own online game retailer.

DeMartini did add, ?We hope to work out an agreement to keep our games on Steam.?

So EA had two choices deal with it and do what Steam wants and have the DLC on the store page (I rather have my DLC on the store page to be honest). Or just leave Steam which is what they did.

 

[Azaraxzealot]

Either way you can't deny that this whole ploy is just EA's way to get more money from people by cutting 3rd party percentages.

Again, that comment (especially with the whole "ploy" thing in it) really reinforces my claim that even if EA didn't do it (which all the hard facts point to this logical and sane conclusion, EA's history notwithstanding.) Valve fanboys are even MORE rabid and perform MORE impressive and complex mental gymnastics to make Valve the Robin Hood of gaming no matter what they do.

I'm not an EA fanboy. Most of my games are from Microsoft Game Studios (including my downloadable games... ilomilo is awesome).

So in short, yes, I CAN deny this is a whole "ploy" (seriously? tin-foil hat comment much?) by EA to make more money. All the evidence so far suggest it's actually Valve who is taking the game down and as long as this is the only evidence, it is the only evidence I will go off of. Drawing conclusions out of thin air such as claiming this is a "ploy" (again, ridiculous choice of word) to make money on EA's part when there is no hard evidence in this situation to point to that (if you're going to say "Because EA is a corporation." then i submit that "Valve is a corporation." because it is).

Innocent until proven guilty, or has the internet decided against that and that being judgmental is awesome and condemning things for being around a long time and making money automatically makes them cool (despite at least one of these things applying to Valve).

Again, I do not see Valve as "evil" or "bad". I see them as having the capacity to be even MORE evil (since its fanbase consists of "educated" elitists who basically run the internet and they would defend valve even if they caused a second holocaust), but they are an above-average gaming company that should probably branch out and try some new genres once in awhile. That top-down shooter "Alien Swarm" and their upcoming "DotA 2" are steps in the right direction, but as long as they keep making good games, I don't have a problem with them.... just their snarling, rabid fanbase that they keep on a chain right next to their gilded golden throne.

 

[Arehexes]

Either way you can't deny that this whole ploy is just EA's way to get more money from people by cutting 3rd party percentages.

Again, that comment (especially with the whole "ploy" thing in it) really reinforces my claim that even if EA didn't do it (which all the hard facts point to this logical and sane conclusion, EA's history notwithstanding.) Valve fanboys are even MORE rabid and perform MORE impressive and complex mental gymnastics to make Valve the Robin Hood of gaming no matter what they do.

I'm not an EA fanboy. Most of my games are from Microsoft Game Studios (including my downloadable games... ilomilo is awesome).

So in short, yes, I CAN deny this is a whole "ploy" (seriously? tin-foil hat comment much?) by EA to make more money. All the evidence so far suggest it's actually Valve who is taking the game down and as long as this is the only evidence, it is the only evidence I will go off of. Drawing conclusions out of thin air such as claiming this is a "ploy" (again, ridiculous choice of word) to make money on EA's part when there is no hard evidence in this situation to point to that (if you're going to say "Because EA is a corporation." then i submit that "Valve is a corporation." because it is).

Innocent until proven guilty, or has the internet decided against that and that being judgmental is awesome and condemning things for being around a long time and making money automatically makes them cool (despite at least one of these things applying to Valve).

Again, I do not see Valve as "evil" or "bad". I see them as having the capacity to be even MORE evil (since its fanbase consists of "educated" elitists who basically run the internet and they would defend valve even if they caused a second holocaust), but they are an above-average gaming company that should probably branch out and try some new genres once in awhile. That top-down shooter "Alien Swarm" and their upcoming "DotA 2" are steps in the right direction, but as long as they keep making good games, I don't have a problem with them.... just their snarling, rabid fanbase that they keep on a chain right next to their gilded golden throne.

?Unfortunately, Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service which limit how developers interact with customers to sell downloadable content. No other download service has adopted this practice. Consequently some of our games have been removed by Steam.?

The ?restrictive terms of service? require that downloadable content for games available on Steam be available to consumers from Steam directly. However, Dragon Age II?s ?Legacy? DLC add-on is available as an in-game download. It's unclear why EA has refused to allow Steam to offer Dragon Age II DLC to customers directly, but it might have something to do with Origin, EA's own online game retailer.

DeMartini did add, ?We hope to work out an agreement to keep our games on Steam.?

This is from gamesradar about the subject. It seems it was just put the DLC on the store page for steam, which to be honest would be easy to also find since when your looking at the core game you can see the DLC listed there.

And it's funny your talking about how EA could be innocent or in the right yet as you said we don't have both sides. So for all we know maybe it is EA's fault and they beat the press to seem like the good guys.

You say Innocent until proven guilty, well you can't prove anything until we hear both sides. Like you said Valve didn't say anything yet, so aren't you just as bad as the "snarling, rabid fanbase" but for EA instead since you are on Valve's case? Because the "evidence" is just EA's word.

 

[Gather]

Can we see this service thing they have to agree to? It would be nice to have something to reference. Anyone willing to ask Gabe for it?

 

[Azaraxzealot]

This is from gamesradar about the subject. It seems it was just put the DLC on the store page for steam, which to be honest would be easy to also find since when your looking at the core game you can see the DLC listed there.

And it's funny your talking about how EA could be innocent or in the right yet as you said we don't have both sides. So for all we know maybe it is EA's fault and they beat the press to seem like the good guys.

You say Innocent until proven guilty, well you can't prove anything until we hear both sides. Like you said Valve didn't say anything yet, so aren't you just as bad as the "snarling, rabid fanbase" but for EA instead since you are on Valve's case? Because the "evidence" is just EA's word.

But you and all the other fanboys are SO hell-bent on blaming EA that even if there was video, photo, and audio evidence all pointing a finger at Valve, you all still would dismiss it as long as Valve said nothing.

Like I said, again, I'm not defending EA, i'm defending sanity and the fact that we should probably wait for more evidence to surface or go off of what we have now to draw conclusions. And even if EA did pull it, then so what? Why are you taking this opportunity to bash EA for what they may or may not have done (evidence shows they didn't)?

This is just me trying to crusade against hypocrisy, fanboyism, and double-standards. Obviously if VALVE pulled a game from another service everyone would shrug and say "Yeah, fine." But since it was EA then call everyone to the town square because there's a witch that needs a burnin'.

I have no strong feelings as to who did it for what reasons or even care what the outcome of this is. What I DO care about is the mental gymnastics of the Valve fanboys to make Valve the pope, patron saint, and deity of gaming no matter if they were right or wrong (and won't even wait until real evidence shows that they were right or wrong). I hate hypocrisy, and by GOD if this isn't a classic example of it.

Never in any of my posts did I try to vilify Valve or make EA innocent. I merely pointed out the evidence and told everyone to pay attention to that instead of instantly jumping on the "EA HATE!" bandwagon. I would be making the same arguments even if it wasn't EA and you would still be accusing me of being as bad as the rabid snarling fanbase of the Valve variety which, as I've pointed out, is never wrong in the eyes of the Escapist or any of its other fansites.

And also, discuss the issue and add more to the conversation, don't go off topic trying to slander me.