EA Germany: "Origin Is Not Spyware"

[chadachada123]

EULAs can't be legal.

What I mean is, when you buy a sealed game, you don't know what the EULA inside says, meaning that if you discover that you DON'T agree to it, not only are you not allowed to return it (in the US, legally), you are also not allowed to ignore the EULA. You're being forced into a contract, and that is not legal.

If you sign the EULA *before* getting the game, though, like when signing up for things online, that's totally different. People that bought BF3 over the internet, then, don't have much of a case unless specific parts of the EULA go against that country's laws, but that's a different issue.

 

[Ickorus]

sigh... this again... im sorry but i couldnt care less what origin does.. i have a facebook acount, i have a steam acount, i have a itunes acount, my info is prob passed around all over from those companies yet origin keeps taking the flak for something that just about every other company does

Facebook displays what you put up on it, it doesn't snoop around in your system to see what you're doing.

Steam asks you to do a survey when it wants information on it's users, this survey then asks if it can scan your system, if you say no then there's no harm in it.

itunes, hell if I know, I haven't had that on my computer in year and would recommend you use Amazon mp3 instead. (Cheaper, doesn't require you to install annoying software)

What im really getting at is that in general you're the one that has to input the information but Origin tries to go around you and do it by itself, if it asked me whether I wanted to complete a survey or whatever first I would be fine with it and would use it but because it doesn't it loses me and many other potential customers; what confuses me most is that most people would just hit yes on the survey anyway so im genuinely confused as to why they just don't do that instead.

 

[Bostur]

It didn't seem to have a clear purpose with the ReadFile calls. It just started reading some stuff in my Blizzard folder. I don't think it was even supposed to do that, as it was not thorough and this was the first time it happened.

The important thing to get from this is that it is doing all of this in ProgramData, a directory that normally has very little in it, and none of it of consequence. The uproar is over a guy who's tax program and cellphone data was somehow storing information there. Origin didn't seek this out, and it also didn't read any of it (I watched the video), it just happened to lie in that directory that Origin checks.

It was clearly iterating through the ProgramData and stumbled upon the tax documents by chance because it was there. It's obvious that it didn't specifically target tax reports, but when the search criteria are so broad the behaviour seems fishy.

Maybe it is gathering consumer behaviour, to make users the target of specific advertising. In your case it may know what Blizzard games you play. Maybe it is simply buggy and were meant to only iterate through an EA specific folder. Maybe it's looking for specific cheats. It's all guesswork but it does access unneeded data, and I think that shows that EA doesn't take privacy quite as serious as they claim.

 

[42]

Sing it with me barbershop quartet!

Bullshit, Bullshit, Bullshit, BULLSHIT
What a Load.

In all seriousness, the industry needs some kind of regulatory body that stops publishers getting away with this kinda crap.

 

[Thedutchjelle]

You can't deny that THIS is the way you should boycot a product. The Germans aren't just making a lame "OMG NO ORIGIN"petition on the internet or raging in a newly made Steam User Group - No, they actually return their products en masse and refuse to buy them.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

It's funny how people are actually defending EA. I guess privacy and consumer rights are soon to be a thing of the past.

 

[silverbullet1989]

sigh... this again... im sorry but i couldnt care less what origin does.. i have a facebook acount, i have a steam acount, i have a itunes acount, my info is prob passed around all over from those companies yet origin keeps taking the flak for something that just about every other company does

Here is the thing, Facebook only knows what YOU TELL IT! And you literally advertise your life for your friends precisely for that purpose. You don't have to give up this info for anything else. The problem with facebook is the line between what you set as private and what you set as public, and how Facebook uses the date you GIVE THEM!

I use Facebook, but I never tell them anything. No problem.

Origin is FAR WORSE! You HAVE to allow them to worm right into your system, spying on everything you never wanted to get out there in the grubby hands of marketers or whoever, and you HAVE to allow this in order to play games like Mass Effect, Crysis 2, Battlefield 3, Old Republic and so many other games.

And the quid pro quo with Facebook is they are giving you a social network FOR FREE in exchange for using your data (that you willingly give up) for targeted ads.


But Origin, you've ALREADY FUGGING PAID! You forked over a LOT of money for these games and they STILL want your data for profit?!?!? And they don't just want the data that you have entered specifically, they want to worm in an get at data they know that no reasonable person would ever give up if they were asked!!!

Right and what will ea do with this "information" that they are going to steel from my computer? considering the data is anonymous and they can't identify you via the information, I highly doubt im going to get a guy in a black suit turning up at my door, worse comes to worse I get emails telling me about origins latest offers on games I've purched... oh dear god no -_-

Yes I see the point of willingly inputting data, and origin just taking data, but I still don't see any difference, there only going to have the same info what any other service has. Goggled my name out of curiosity and my deviant art account, MySpace account (which I thought was deleted) facebook account, hell even my hotmail address came up, along with a load of pictures of me!

Even if I had stuff on my computer that was pirated, private etc origin isn't going to take that information.. hell the way people bang on about it it's as if they're going to steal your bank account details and all your money -_-

 

[_tinned_magpie_]

The Germans reaction to this is glorious.

Honestly? I don't care if it's all outlined in the EULA. We can rant on about how other sites and programs do this all the time - true or not - and it still doesn't take away from the fact that they're invading our privacy. It's still unacceptable, and I refuse to play any game that forces me to use a service I don't want.

 

[Frostbite3789]

This is very good to see; Origin is spyware, and German gamers are displaying their righteous outrage over it!

I'm less ecstatic that I don't see any such reactions here in suburban America. In fact, most reactions seem to be along the lines of "I think they slightly altered the EULA or something, who cares it's Battlefield 3."

I'll make you a deal. I'll get rid of Origin if you complain righteously about Steam having a liability clause that says if Steam completely destroys your computer, Valve is in no way liable. Also you then have to get rid of Steam.

 

[Frostbite3789]

Taken from: http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBPRIVACY/US/en/PC/
B. Will EA Share My Information With Third Parties?

EA will never share your personal information with third parties without your consent. We may, however, share anonymous, non-personal, aggregated and/or public information with third parties. There may be circumstances where you may share information on your own.

People are way over-exaggerating this.

Half-truths and misinformation bring in more traffic to the site than telling the whole, non-sensationalist non-story.

(Is it a little funny part of my captcha was 'neglected'?)

 

[Treblaine]

sigh... this again... im sorry but i couldnt care less what origin does.. i have a facebook acount, i have a steam acount, i have a itunes acount, my info is prob passed around all over from those companies yet origin keeps taking the flak for something that just about every other company does

Here is the thing, Facebook only knows what YOU TELL IT! And you literally advertise your life for your friends precisely for that purpose. You don't have to give up this info for anything else. The problem with facebook is the line between what you set as private and what you set as public, and how Facebook uses the date you GIVE THEM!

I use Facebook, but I never tell them anything. No problem.

Origin is FAR WORSE! You HAVE to allow them to worm right into your system, spying on everything you never wanted to get out there in the grubby hands of marketers or whoever, and you HAVE to allow this in order to play games like Mass Effect, Crysis 2, Battlefield 3, Old Republic and so many other games.

And the quid pro quo with Facebook is they are giving you a social network FOR FREE in exchange for using your data (that you willingly give up) for targeted ads.


But Origin, you've ALREADY FUGGING PAID! You forked over a LOT of money for these games and they STILL want your data for profit?!?!? And they don't just want the data that you have entered specifically, they want to worm in an get at data they know that no reasonable person would ever give up if they were asked!!!

Right and what will ea do with this "information" that they are going to steel from my computer? considering the data is anonymous and they can't identify you via the information, I highly doubt im going to get a guy in a black suit turning up at my door, worse comes to worse I get emails telling me about origins latest offers on games I've purched... oh dear god no -_-

Yes I see the point of willingly inputting data, and origin just taking data, but I still don't see any difference, there only going to have the same info what any other service has. Goggled my name out of curiosity and my deviant art account, MySpace account (which I thought was deleted) facebook account, hell even my hotmail address came up, along with a load of pictures of me!

Even if I had stuff on my computer that was pirated, private etc origin isn't going to take that information.. hell the way people bang on about it it's as if they're going to steal your bank account details and all your money -_-

That's the same logic as "well what do you have to fear the police raiding your house without a warrant?"

The worse you will get is NOT email offers, the worst you can get is something like a credit card being taken out in your name as they bought your details. Your details once they are in the open are HUGELY VALUABLE to scammers, blackmailers, for identity theft, fraud, lawsuits and piracy shakedown.

Don't fucking doubt it. Why do you think all these black-hats are constantly trying to get spyware onto your computer? For the same reason EA are, your information is valuable, so valuable and it puts you at risk!

Stop being an EA apologist!!! Especially when they themselves haven't excused themselves, only told bare faced lies that what they are doing is not spying.

 

[Treblaine]

Taken from: http://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBPRIVACY/US/en/PC/
B. Will EA Share My Information With Third Parties?

EA will never share your personal information with third parties without your consent. We may, however, share anonymous, non-personal, aggregated and/or public information with third parties. There may be circumstances where you may share information on your own.

People are way over-exaggerating this.

I DO NOT TRUST them!

No one should. Why should ANYONE trust a pinkie promise when they could so easily sell your personal details and they'd never be found out. After all, the line between "anonymous" and personal is EXTREMELY blurry. Vague enough that you can make a song and dance about it being an

Rule number 1: Don't let them snoop around on your hard drive in the first place. If they haven't prised sensitive details from you, then they can't use it inappropriately. WHY DO they want to snoop around there any way? When the hell did EA become the Stasi at the agreement of a EULA?!?!?

The problem is not "Oooh, why didn't they make an empty promise to be nice with my sensitive data"

The problem is "Why the FUCK do they want to spy on my hard drive in secret and take my sensitive data!?!?!?"

EA are NOT a paragon of excellence, they are NOT a Swiss bank. They have NOT EARNED ANY TRUST! How can they surreptitiously take people's data with underhanded spyware and THEN expect us to trust them not to sell it? They have ABUSED the small amount of trust they expect in installing software you expect to not be malicious.

Remember THEY ARE TAKING YOUR DATA IN SECRET!

This is TOTALLY DIFFERENT from Steam inviting you to take part in a hardware survey, or detecting which region you are in (as every website does anyway).

 

[Treblaine]

This is very good to see; Origin is spyware, and German gamers are displaying their righteous outrage over it!

I'm less ecstatic that I don't see any such reactions here in suburban America. In fact, most reactions seem to be along the lines of "I think they slightly altered the EULA or something, who cares it's Battlefield 3."

I'll make you a deal. I'll get rid of Origin if you complain righteously about Steam having a liability clause that says if Steam completely destroys your computer, Valve is in no way liable. Also you then have to get rid of Steam.

I'll make a deal with you, I'll get rid of Steam when you recognise that all of the United States are a colony of Britain and go as far as renouncing your American citizenship and becoming a citizen of the United Kingdom.

See? It's easy to make outrageous and irrelevant demands to dodge the actual issue.

Because how the hell could steam destroy your computer (OK, actual steam could cause damage, but not valve's Steam-client). Steam is in no way dangerous to your system.

However, Origin CAN AND IS spying on your data and their EULA is just the final insult to give the veil of acceptability and to sabotage any class action lawsuit against such a grievous invasion of privacy and exploitation of sensitive data. It is not the EULA itself that is the problem. It is the ACTUALITY of the spyware and how the EULA protect that spying which makes it far worse than any other spyware you cold get on your PC.

 

[silverbullet1989]

sigh... this again... im sorry but i couldnt care less what origin does.. i have a facebook acount, i have a steam acount, i have a itunes acount, my info is prob passed around all over from those companies yet origin keeps taking the flak for something that just about every other company does

Here is the thing, Facebook only knows what YOU TELL IT! And you literally advertise your life for your friends precisely for that purpose. You don't have to give up this info for anything else. The problem with facebook is the line between what you set as private and what you set as public, and how Facebook uses the date you GIVE THEM!

I use Facebook, but I never tell them anything. No problem.

Origin is FAR WORSE! You HAVE to allow them to worm right into your system, spying on everything you never wanted to get out there in the grubby hands of marketers or whoever, and you HAVE to allow this in order to play games like Mass Effect, Crysis 2, Battlefield 3, Old Republic and so many other games.

And the quid pro quo with Facebook is they are giving you a social network FOR FREE in exchange for using your data (that you willingly give up) for targeted ads.


But Origin, you've ALREADY FUGGING PAID! You forked over a LOT of money for these games and they STILL want your data for profit?!?!? And they don't just want the data that you have entered specifically, they want to worm in an get at data they know that no reasonable person would ever give up if they were asked!!!

Right and what will ea do with this "information" that they are going to steel from my computer? considering the data is anonymous and they can't identify you via the information, I highly doubt im going to get a guy in a black suit turning up at my door, worse comes to worse I get emails telling me about origins latest offers on games I've purched... oh dear god no -_-

Yes I see the point of willingly inputting data, and origin just taking data, but I still don't see any difference, there only going to have the same info what any other service has. Goggled my name out of curiosity and my deviant art account, MySpace account (which I thought was deleted) facebook account, hell even my hotmail address came up, along with a load of pictures of me!

Even if I had stuff on my computer that was pirated, private etc origin isn't going to take that information.. hell the way people bang on about it it's as if they're going to steal your bank account details and all your money -_-

That's the same logic as "well what do you have to fear the police raiding your house without a warrant?"

The worse you will get is NOT email offers, the worst you can get is something like a credit card being taken out in your name as they bought your details. Your details once they are in the open are HUGELY VALUABLE to scammers, blackmailers, for identity theft, fraud, lawsuits and piracy shakedown.

Don't fucking doubt it. Why do you think all these black-hats are constantly trying to get spyware onto your computer? For the same reason EA are, your information is valuable, so valuable and it puts you at risk!

Stop being an EA apologist!!! Especially when they themselves haven't excused themselves, only told bare faced lies that what they are doing is not spying.

woah calm the ef down... if your not using it dont get so worked up over it =p i am using it i am enjoying bf3 very much, and until something happens, until something like what your saying surfaces then i reserve the right to not give a flying fuck about another peice of software running on my computer, i dont defend EA, i hate the fact they have anything to do with such a good developer like dice... haters gonna hate

 

[Chevy235]

Nice of EA to drag the name Origin through the mud...AGAIN.

Tools.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Germans fight against EA's Fourth Reich.

I had to lulz a little bit.

Origin needs to fucking die. Privacy is meant to be hidden, not invaded by corporate hands ridden with the stench of money.

 

[Treblaine]

sigh... this again... im sorry but i couldnt care less what origin does.. i have a facebook acount, i have a steam acount, i have a itunes acount, my info is prob passed around all over from those companies yet origin keeps taking the flak for something that just about every other company does

Here is the thing, Facebook only knows what YOU TELL IT! And you literally advertise your life for your friends precisely for that purpose. You don't have to give up this info for anything else. The problem with facebook is the line between what you set as private and what you set as public, and how Facebook uses the date you GIVE THEM!

I use Facebook, but I never tell them anything. No problem.

Origin is FAR WORSE! You HAVE to allow them to worm right into your system, spying on everything you never wanted to get out there in the grubby hands of marketers or whoever, and you HAVE to allow this in order to play games like Mass Effect, Crysis 2, Battlefield 3, Old Republic and so many other games.

And the quid pro quo with Facebook is they are giving you a social network FOR FREE in exchange for using your data (that you willingly give up) for targeted ads.


But Origin, you've ALREADY FUGGING PAID! You forked over a LOT of money for these games and they STILL want your data for profit?!?!? And they don't just want the data that you have entered specifically, they want to worm in an get at data they know that no reasonable person would ever give up if they were asked!!!

Right and what will ea do with this "information" that they are going to steel from my computer? considering the data is anonymous and they can't identify you via the information, I highly doubt im going to get a guy in a black suit turning up at my door, worse comes to worse I get emails telling me about origins latest offers on games I've purched... oh dear god no -_-

Yes I see the point of willingly inputting data, and origin just taking data, but I still don't see any difference, there only going to have the same info what any other service has. Goggled my name out of curiosity and my deviant art account, MySpace account (which I thought was deleted) facebook account, hell even my hotmail address came up, along with a load of pictures of me!

Even if I had stuff on my computer that was pirated, private etc origin isn't going to take that information.. hell the way people bang on about it it's as if they're going to steal your bank account details and all your money -_-

That's the same logic as "well what do you have to fear the police raiding your house without a warrant?"

The worse you will get is NOT email offers, the worst you can get is something like a credit card being taken out in your name as they bought your details. Your details once they are in the open are HUGELY VALUABLE to scammers, blackmailers, for identity theft, fraud, lawsuits and piracy shakedown.

Don't fucking doubt it. Why do you think all these black-hats are constantly trying to get spyware onto your computer? For the same reason EA are, your information is valuable, so valuable and it puts you at risk!

Stop being an EA apologist!!! Especially when they themselves haven't excused themselves, only told bare faced lies that what they are doing is not spying.

woah calm the ef down... if your not using it dont get so worked up over it =p i am using it i am enjoying bf3 very much, and until something happens, until something like what your saying surfaces then i reserve the right to not give a flying fuck about another peice of software running on my computer, i dont defend EA, i hate the fact they have anything to do with such a good developer like dice... haters gonna hate

Uhh yeah... that's sound logic.[/sarcasm]

You are going to take a huge risk and unless it actually materialises with clear individual link to cause and effect then there is no risk. That's the same logic of the cigarette advertisements in the 1950's "well I've been smoking for years and haven't got lung cancer and if I did, who says the smoking caused that?"

On thing you CANNOT do is encourage others to take the same risks you are taking.

DO NOT say "everything is all right" when it is not!

I get it, you want to play Battlefield 3. That is clearly prejudicing so many opinions on this, but we HAVE to draw a line somewhere as once the die is cast there is no going back, you can't undo what has been done. And if EA can do this and get away with it, then that establishes that ANYONE can do this. Think about how you are voting with your wallet for a VERY BAD THING!

 

[Craazhy]

This whole situation can be easily explained with a couple Venture Bros. clips.

EA Germany to German public: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMNJuSl91qY

EA Germany to entertainment journalism representatives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaxShzl1aTQ

 

[aashell13]

eh. as if I needed another reason to avoid Origin like the plague.

 

[GeorgW]

If you want things to change, this is what'll get it to happen. An entire nation, both the populous and the government, being against them is pretty much the only thing that will get EA to change, so lets hope this will lead to something good.
And this is not just EA, if EA starts to rid away with forced Origin that's pretty major for their competition, and may force a change.