EA's Origin is creepy and watches you sleep!

[teisjm]

It's as simple as this:
I wouldn't appreciate, if my computer pimped me out to people wanting to probe me for financial gain, so i'm not gonna do so to my computer.
And before someone say "but anti-virus probes your PC, why is that okay?" let me answer you in advance. Anti virus is for PC's what docters are for people, and sometimes you need a camera probed up your rear end in order to fix you. While not pleasant, it's a neccecery evil.

We should really start a campaign based on this, as stupid as anti-piracy "you wouldn't download a car" adds.

"You wouldn't let EA probe your child"

*starts drawing pictures of EA molesting our PC's.

 

[Max Wilco]

I just looked through the Steam EULA ( http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ ) to see if Steam was guilty of doing the same thing Origin does, and perhaps I missed something, but I can't seem to find a passage that indicates that Steam collects information on your computer, unless you opt to do so through one of their surveys.

On a side note, am I the only one who finds it odd that EA named the service after Origin Systems?

 

[Something Amyss]

They shouldn't have to accept such terms!

So do something about it.

As it is, I bet most of the people who are complaining will sign on and use it anyway.

Which sends the message, once again, that EA's behaviour is OK.

We have to accept such terms because people continue to allow it. People need to take responsibility instead of holding tantrums about their rights then playing the games anyway. Do we, as gamers, really lack such self-restraint? It appears the answer is yes.

 

[mornal]

Oh no! So you mean to say that if I have Origin I'll get spam mail based on what it thinks I like? That's horrible! This is a completely new thing that will ruin everything forever! And you say it'll detect pirated software? How dare EA try to fight against an illegal practice! What has the world come to?

Why don't you want the police randomly searching your house, you have nothing to fear if you did nothing wrong?


You know, most people don't want everything you do on your computer (including the totally legal stuff) to be distributed to everyone and their moma.

Two different things. The police are a government agency. EA is a corporation. Disregarding that, though, for the police searching my house to be like EA searching my computer they would have to search the house of anyone who uses Origin.

Additionally, if EA finds pirated software that isn't theirs, what do you think they'll do with that information? Does it really strike you as plausible for EA every single company that any of their users pirated from to say, 'Hey, this dude has some of your software'? Or maybe they'll do what you said and "distribute it to everyone and their moma" (which the police don't do, they're generally good about not letting the public in on things). Then what? Sure, everyone and their momma will now know about all the dirty secrets you have on your computer, but they won't care. I find it much more likely that EA will only care about pirated software if it's their stuff.

Also the distribution of information will only result in spam messages in your inbox. Think about it logically. If EA does anything more than that with your personal info, the political shitstorm that follows would ruin them forever (or at least long enough to severely weaken their position in the industry). Hell, I've been using Origin now since April and I haven't noticed a marked increase in spam. Even if you do realise you're suddenly inundated with unwanted e-mails, are you telling me that marking the 'this is spam' box is too much of a hassle?

Rant ahead, expect stream of consciousness style writing, debatable logic.

I'd like to state that I don't condone or support the spying. I just don't overreact like everyone (hyperbole) else and refuse to buy any EA products.

It annoys me when people say 'vote with your wallet' or try to boycott a company. When people refuse to buy games the publishers and developers the message you're sending them is 'This game isn't popular, don't make more of it'. If that's the message you're trying to send, that's great, but if it's not then you just killed off a series/franchise. And when has boycotting worked? Recent examples about CoD: PC gamers boycotted MW2 for not having dedicated servers, and I remember finding out about a week after release around 75% of the Steam group leading the boycott were playing MW2. Then all the gamers who read about IW and Activision decide to boycott the next CoD game. The next CoD game then turns into a best-seller.

You can't change EA's policies with a boycott or refusing to buy their games. The people swearing off EA for this Origin spying debacle are severely outnumbered by the people who don't care. For some of you, Origin is a huge thing that'll change the future of gaming. For others, Origin is something they have to download before they can play Battlefield 3.

 

[Doclector]

They shouldn't have to accept such terms!

So do something about it.

As it is, I bet most of the people who are complaining will sign on and use it anyway.

Which sends the message, once again, that EA's behaviour is OK.

We have to accept such terms because people continue to allow it. People need to take responsibility instead of holding tantrums about their rights then playing the games anyway. Do we, as gamers, really lack such self-restraint? It appears the answer is yes.

I don't play PC games, so won't be using origin anyway. I just find it disgusting that they're doing it.

Unless they start making you sign up for it on consoles...

 

[SH4DOWSL4Y3R]

so essentially, the common response to this fiasco is: grumble grumble grumble, i don't want EA seeing what kind of dirty videos i watch in the evening! how dare they! (couldn't resist)

I don't know about you, but I access a LOT of websites with really sensitive information about me.

Stuff like my retirement investments, bank accounts, credit card information, confidential work information, etc.

How the hell would I know what EA is collecting and what it's not with an EULA like that.

i was just making a joke, followed by my actual opinion, which i'm pretty sure went along the lines of "screw EA, and screw origin, no matter how much i want to play mass effect 3" but with less of an aggressive tone at the time(i can't really be bothered re reading it right now).

i'm aware of the problem with it potentially accessing important personal info, and at the current time, no, i don't have retirement investments, nor a credit card (i don't want a credit card, i'd end up in debt far too easy).
however, i still access my bank and perform online purchases, and no, i wouldn't feel comfortable with ea potentially knowing my bank details or anything aside from what games i'd be using on their service. hence why i'm not going to use origin.

 

[bradza101]

this is really bad stuff from EA. They will be going against there own contract. They say if you dont like the terms and conditions you can not install origin however with battle feild 3 you will be forced to be install origin or you cannot play the game. even if you buy a cd copy it has to installed. i think its safe to say this is a brech of contract.

 

[SnipErlite]

snips snip snip

Wow root, thanks. That's awesome. And terrifying...

I want to get Battlefield 3, I want to like EA. But..why are they doing this? The amount of increased pirating this will encourage...surely they realise that a whole lot of people are going to be pissed off about this?

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't play PC games, so won't be using origin anyway. I just find it disgusting that they're doing it.

Unless they start making you sign up for it on consoles...

Well, then, continue to do what you're doing. But since PC gamers will willingly sign their rights away, even though this has been made public knowledge and sparked a pretty large backlash, the end result is the same: the community will almost certainly send the message that this is okay.

Why?

Because they'll buy it anyway.

As you're being disgusted at the corporation for doing it, save some disgust for the people who will allow it. Especially those who will pitch a fit and eventually buy it anyway.

 

[AdumbroDeus]

Oh no! So you mean to say that if I have Origin I'll get spam mail based on what it thinks I like? That's horrible! This is a completely new thing that will ruin everything forever! And you say it'll detect pirated software? How dare EA try to fight against an illegal practice! What has the world come to?

Why don't you want the police randomly searching your house, you have nothing to fear if you did nothing wrong?


You know, most people don't want everything you do on your computer (including the totally legal stuff) to be distributed to everyone and their moma.

Two different things. The police are a government agency. EA is a corporation. Disregarding that, though, for the police searching my house to be like EA searching my computer they would have to search the house of anyone who uses Origin.

Additionally, if EA finds pirated software that isn't theirs, what do you think they'll do with that information? Does it really strike you as plausible for EA every single company that any of their users pirated from to say, 'Hey, this dude has some of your software'? Or maybe they'll do what you said and "distribute it to everyone and their moma" (which the police don't do, they're generally good about not letting the public in on things). Then what? Sure, everyone and their momma will now know about all the dirty secrets you have on your computer, but they won't care. I find it much more likely that EA will only care about pirated software if it's their stuff.

Also the distribution of information will only result in spam messages in your inbox. Think about it logically. If EA does anything more than that with your personal info, the political shitstorm that follows would ruin them forever (or at least long enough to severely weaken their position in the industry). Hell, I've been using Origin now since April and I haven't noticed a marked increase in spam. Even if you do realise you're suddenly inundated with unwanted e-mails, are you telling me that marking the 'this is spam' box is too much of a hassle?

Rant ahead, expect stream of consciousness style writing, debatable logic.

I'd like to state that I don't condone or support the spying. I just don't overreact like everyone (hyperbole) else and refuse to buy any EA products.

It annoys me when people say 'vote with your wallet' or try to boycott a company. When people refuse to buy games the publishers and developers the message you're sending them is 'This game isn't popular, don't make more of it'. If that's the message you're trying to send, that's great, but if it's not then you just killed off a series/franchise. And when has boycotting worked? Recent examples about CoD: PC gamers boycotted MW2 for not having dedicated servers, and I remember finding out about a week after release around 75% of the Steam group leading the boycott were playing MW2. Then all the gamers who read about IW and Activision decide to boycott the next CoD game. The next CoD game then turns into a best-seller.

You can't change EA's policies with a boycott or refusing to buy their games. The people swearing off EA for this Origin spying debacle are severely outnumbered by the people who don't care. For some of you, Origin is a huge thing that'll change the future of gaming. For others, Origin is something they have to download before they can play Battlefield 3.

And why don't we want the police searching everything?

A little something called privacy.

Think about it this way, there's no provisions for what information they may obtain or how they may use this information.


Lets say you have a legal but potentially embarrassing hobby, for example, you're a major fan of producing anthropomorphic art (aka, a furry). Assume you want to keep it private because you don't want everyone thinking that your hobby is sex in fursuits.

Now EA has this information and if you ever run for political office you can bet that EA's gonna sell it to your opponents.


This isn't a boycott, this is plain old "it's not worth it", I don't want everything I do in my spare time to be usable by EA as they see fit. No, this crosses the line, and if you're fine with EA being able to do that to you, feel free, enjoy it.


I'm not.

 

[mornal]

Snip

Really, the only reason I'm fine with giving EA permission to search my computer is that I know nothing will come of it. Just because EA can do something doesn't mean it will. For example, I can spout off racist comments and be protected by the first amendment, but I won't because I know that people will hate me for it. As I said before, doing anything outside of the norm would draw too much attention and create too much negative PR.

Would I prefer it if Origin's EULA in regards to gathering data was more refined and restricted? Yeah, but I don't see the point of doing anything more than making it known to as many people as possible. That way if EA does screw up, more people know.

And just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply you were boycotting (unless you are, then it was completely intentional). Nothing in that rant was directed at you or any specific person. There are people boycotting it (or at least there will be, I guarantee it) and if anything, it was directed at them.

 

[AdumbroDeus]

Snip

Really, the only reason I'm fine with giving EA permission to search my computer is that I know nothing will come of it. Just because EA can do something doesn't mean it will. For example, I can spout off racist comments and be protected by the first amendment, but I won't because I know that people will hate me for it. As I said before, doing anything outside of the norm would draw too much attention and create too much negative PR.

Would I prefer it if Origin's EULA in regards to gathering data was more refined and restricted? Yeah, but I don't see the point of doing anything more than making it known to as many people as possible. That way if EA does screw up, more people know.

And just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply you were boycotting (unless you are, then it was completely intentional). Nothing in that rant was directed at you or any specific person. There are people boycotting it (or at least there will be, I guarantee it) and if anything, it was directed at them.

Believe me, there is nobody in the world doesn't have at least one secret they'd be embarrassed about. They may consider it completely moral and it might be completely legal, but doesn't mean that they want it all over the web.

Ex. If you have a wife, you probably have sex with her, does that mean you want pictures of it plastered over the net.


At the very least, you probably use it for financial data of some sort, do you REALLY want EA touching your finances? Seriously.


I doubt few people are boycotting it per say, they're probably just assessing the privacy issue and being like "no way, not worth it", just like I am. Unless you consider not buying mcdonalds cause you like eating healthy boycotting, then I guess I'm boycotting most products. Especially yatchs.

 

[mornal]

Snip

Really, the only reason I'm fine with giving EA permission to search my computer is that I know nothing will come of it. Just because EA can do something doesn't mean it will. For example, I can spout off racist comments and be protected by the first amendment, but I won't because I know that people will hate me for it. As I said before, doing anything outside of the norm would draw too much attention and create too much negative PR.

Would I prefer it if Origin's EULA in regards to gathering data was more refined and restricted? Yeah, but I don't see the point of doing anything more than making it known to as many people as possible. That way if EA does screw up, more people know.

And just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply you were boycotting (unless you are, then it was completely intentional). Nothing in that rant was directed at you or any specific person. There are people boycotting it (or at least there will be, I guarantee it) and if anything, it was directed at them.

Believe me, there is nobody in the world doesn't have at least one secret they'd be embarrassed about. They may consider it completely moral and it might be completely legal, but doesn't mean that they want it all over the web.

Ex. If you have a wife, you probably have sex with her, does that mean you want pictures of it plastered over the net.


At the very least, you probably use it for financial data of some sort, do you REALLY want EA touching your finances? Seriously.


I doubt few people are boycotting it per say, they're probably just assessing the privacy issue and being like "no way, not worth it", just like I am. Unless you consider not buying mcdonalds cause you like eating healthy boycotting, then I guess I'm boycotting most products. Especially yatchs.

Oh I'm not denying that there are some things I'd like to keep private. I'm just saying that, to me, the odds of anything coming of this are slim. Really, you probably got my position on this issue in your previous post. I'm just okay with EA being able to do this to me.

At this point though, we're just debating principles and I don't think anyone has been swayed from strongly held beliefs in the history of everything through civility. So unless you have some secret ultimate argument you've been holding out on, I'd like to thank you for the debate.

And I'm with you on the yachts.

Edit: Just found this link in another thread. The publicity got a change. http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6331203/ea-changes-origin-eula?tag=updates%3Beditor%3Ball%3Btitle%3B4

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Snip

Really, the only reason I'm fine with giving EA permission to search my computer is that I know nothing will come of it. Just because EA can do something doesn't mean it will. For example, I can spout off racist comments and be protected by the first amendment, but I won't because I know that people will hate me for it. As I said before, doing anything outside of the norm would draw too much attention and create too much negative PR.

Would I prefer it if Origin's EULA in regards to gathering data was more refined and restricted? Yeah, but I don't see the point of doing anything more than making it known to as many people as possible. That way if EA does screw up, more people know.

And just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply you were boycotting (unless you are, then it was completely intentional). Nothing in that rant was directed at you or any specific person. There are people boycotting it (or at least there will be, I guarantee it) and if anything, it was directed at them.

Believe me, there is nobody in the world doesn't have at least one secret they'd be embarrassed about. They may consider it completely moral and it might be completely legal, but doesn't mean that they want it all over the web.

Ex. If you have a wife, you probably have sex with her, does that mean you want pictures of it plastered over the net.


At the very least, you probably use it for financial data of some sort, do you REALLY want EA touching your finances? Seriously.


I doubt few people are boycotting it per say, they're probably just assessing the privacy issue and being like "no way, not worth it", just like I am. Unless you consider not buying mcdonalds cause you like eating healthy boycotting, then I guess I'm boycotting most products. Especially yatchs.

Oh I'm not denying that there are some things I'd like to keep private. I'm just saying that, to me, the odds of anything coming of this are slim. Really, you probably got my position on this issue in your previous post. I'm just okay with EA being able to do this to me.

At this point though, we're just debating principles and I don't think anyone has been swayed from strongly held beliefs in the history of everything through civility. So unless you have some secret ultimate argument you've been holding out on, I'd like to thank you for the debate.

And I'm with you on the yachts.

Edit: Just found this link in another thread. The publicity got a change. http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6331203/ea-changes-origin-eula?tag=updates%3Beditor%3Ball%3Btitle%3B4

So do I get credit for them changing that EULA (because that would be pretty cool)?

 

[jimmyjohnson]

I think it dose other than specified i think if it checks what sites i think third parties and EA will look at them and if its like your email then they could read your emails and look at account log in info and selling those links to third parties so they can see it and who can say that those third parties will not leak information to the public about you. I like EA but this is outrages but if you are excepting the Terms and Conditions then they can do what they want because you expected the EULA and now once you accepted to play battlefield 3 there is no turning back i think a stating something like a petition and thing of that nature would maybe get them to change their minds but I bet they will be like Capcom with MML3 and say screw you petitions and everyone who feels strongly about this we will do what we want and that is final. I hope they change and if not it seems like people won't buy from EA and i really wanted BF3 but now i will take that money and spend it on Goldeneye reloaded or any other game or anything. I hope they change because this is spyware this should be illegal but wait you excepted there terms and now you cant do anything about it. They will keep making bad choices soon making them low on money and hopefully taking it away. One last thing why do they want to stalk you I i think that they will lose allot of money now on this and fans without people to buy your games you don't make money and without money your company fails and cant pay bills, developers and make games (if it was a gaming company that is all.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Spoiler: SUPER SNIP

I actually had heard some of that (I think Root Of All Evil mentioned it on some thread yesterday), but I too am surprised at the lack of outrage. That is absolutely ridiculous.

Heh, nice to know I'm remembered Yeah, grab any EULAs with your fine tooth comb and have a look at what they let the companies do that directly and illegally interferes with your rights. It's doubtful that they would use the EULA to those extremes, but it's only the bad publicity that's going to stop them.

Here's a quick bait and switch from EA's.

WHEN YOU USE ANY ONLINE GAME, SERVICE or WEBSITE FROM ELECTRONIC ARTS YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE READ, UNDERSTOOD, AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THESE TERMS.

http://legal.ea.com/legal/legal.jsp?language=en

Hidden until you call it up, but legally binding simply by going to www.ea.com - so you acknowledge it without knowing it.

(IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THIS POLICY, PLEASE DO NOT USE ANY EA SITE, ONLINE OR MOBILE PRODUCT OR SERVICE.)

- which you have to to see this.

(And because it's in a pop-up, you can't easily use "Find" on it)

EA may collect personal information from our online visitors during:

Contest registration and prize acceptance;
Warranty registration and requests;
Customer support and/or technical service requests;
Player match up and other head-to-head online competitions;
Registration for games and/or special game-specific events;
Newsletter subscriptions, referral services, and other marketing surveys and email campaigns;
Registration for EA and/or other service accounts;
Product, service and/or subscription orders;
Service requests from third party service providers on our site; and
Otherwise through use of our software, mobile or online services where personal information is required for use and/or participation.

Information collected will vary depending upon the activity and may include your name, email address, phone number, home address, birth date, mobile phone number and credit card information.

They don't HAVE to, but they can.

We may also receive other personal information from third parties in connection with the operation and distribution of our products and services as well as market and demographic studies that we use to supplement personal information provided directly by you.

Anything our hirelings find out is fair game.

When you use EA online and mobile products and services or you play our games on your PC or console, we may collect certain non-personal demographic information including gender, zip code, information about your computer, hardware, software, platform, media, mobile device, mobile device ID, console ID, incident data, Internet Protocol (IP) address, network Media Access Control (MAC) address and connection. We also collect other non-personal information such as feature usage, game play statistics and scores, user rankings and click paths as well as other data that you may provide in surveys, via your account preferences and online profiles or through purchases, for instance.

A lot of this information is restricted under the various Data Protection Acts, but the top part of the contract says that you waive your rights to be protected by that law. That's actually wrong in a lot of countries, as you cannot waive your own rights.

Clear GIFs (a.k.a. web bugs, beacons or tags) are small graphic images placed on a web page, web-based document, or in an email message. Clear GIFs are invisible to the user because they are typically very small (only 1-by-1 pixel) and the same color as the background of the web page, document or email message. We do not use clear GIFs to collect personal information about you. However, we may use clear GIFs to capture statistical usage information for our web pages, features or other elements on a web page. We correlate this information to a user to personalize user experience and for statistical analysis of user experiences on our web pages.

Know about them? You do now.

Should you be unable to log in or wish to have your account(s) deactivated, contact the Privacy Policy Administrator in your country as listed on our site at privacyadmin.ea.com, or if your country is not listed, by contacting the Privacy Policy Administrator in the United States. We will be happy to review, update or remove information as appropriate. We may still retain your information in our files however, to resolve disputes, enforce our user agreement, and due to technical and legal requirements and constraints related to the security, integrity and operation of our websites.

Some EA sites or services may collect personal information that is not accessible via our site. However, in such cases, you may be able to access that information through alternative means of access described by the service or by writing your local privacy policy administrator at privacyadmin.ea.com and you will be contacted within 30 days regarding your request.

If we've stolen from you, it's your fault and you'll have to contact us. Unless you're in California

XIV. California Residents: Your California Privacy Rights

Under California law, California Residents who have an established business relationship with Electronic Arts Inc. (EA) or one of its subsidiaries may choose to opt out of EA disclosure of personal information about them to third parties for direct marketing purposes. As detailed above, our policy is not to disclose personal information collected online to a third party for direct marketing purposes without your approval.

I could rip into any EULA so it's not just EA, but the rights the EULA give you are far beyond what is necessary to run a big corporation - and by judicial "use" of the rights they have, they can pass everything to a third party company - which just went bankrupt. While they happily log everything you do while you have an EA program running, even if doesn't appear in Task Manager.

If you're not doing anything illegal, then you may say "Why should I be bothered?" - but how do you know you're not doing anything that "seems" illegal.

Perhaps you have a lot of pictures of your child with his friends on the beach? EA snoops and wonders why a grown man/woman has lots of pictures of semi-naked children on their computer.

Perhaps you mail box is filling up with viagra spam, EA may be wondering why you're dealing in so much viagra.

Perhaps you've left a bad Amazon comment on an EA product, EA would "politely" like to know "exactly" why you've chosen to "Amazon-bomb" their "brilliant" product, and will contact you to find out. Repeatedly. At 2am.

It's not that they will, it's that they can. And legally, they're allowed to, because you signed the EULA.

The amount of power companies can get over you without you even knowing it is truly frightening. Someone ought to make a film about these tricks...

 

[serespon]

Just wondering, does this mean if you have original ideas data etc etc.. EA can access them and use them for themselves..? And if they want take your username and use it for whatever nefarious reasons EA wants...??

 

[Simon Pettersson]

I don´t know if this has been posted yet don´t really want to read through 6 pages to find a link.

Origin doesn´t really do anything worse then most other programs on your computer, You most likley have a program that is sending information about everything you have on your computer already.

http://www.gamerlaw.co.uk/2011/08/ea-origins-eula-is-non-story.html