Easy Mode Hate Explained

[Bocaj2000]

Difficulty is nothing more than a part of an experience. Easy games make you feel like an avatar of destruction; hard games make you feel like an underdog overcoming the impossible.

This is basic game theory...

No it's more people like to make up bullshit about stuff they don't understand. people want to like what they don't like and those who enjoy what they don't like are cunts and fools.

What? I don't understand what you're trying to say. Can you please rephrase.

 

[romxxii]

I view the Easy mode situation as similar to homosexuality: some are into it, some aren't, and there are a bunch of people online that are needlessly angry about letting other people use it even though they won't be playing with said individuals.

So yeah, I just called easy mode players gay, and die-hard nightmare difficulty elitists a hate group.

Your move, Internet.

 

[chikusho]

People who the game is clearly not made for are asking for the game to be something it's not

Care to provide some quotes here? Of people actually going "please change the game", not "an easier difficulty" because the two are different.

"An easier difficulty" = Changing the game.
have you even considered that an "easy mode" maybe would suck? And what then, now you've gone from a high quality, unique niche title with a large audience that appreciate it for what it is, what it's trying to do and for forcing them to make an effort to have the intended experience, and what your left with is _maybe_ a _slightly_ larger customer-base experiencing the worst possible version of the game and generating negative buzz about the product. All that time, effort and resources changing the game down the drain to create an inferior version of their vision for people who are not their intended audience.

Also, the "easy mode" of the game can already be accessed by using what is already in the game. Look up where to find items and how to kill bosses on a wiki, and you'll be rolling through Lordran at break-neck speed. If you want to get into something that you don't understand, sometimes you have to make an effort. If you are unwilling to make that effort, perhaps the thing is not for you, and you can move along to something else.

Finally, how come the game has to change to include more people, rather than more people changing themselves to enjoy the game? What is even the point of trying to have a new experience when you get everything served up on a silver platter? If games are ever to be considered as something more than "mindless fun", you have to let go of the fact that games need to be "fun". The same way not all art is "pretty".

 

[CCountZero]

Not even a mention of Gran Turismo?

I grew up with that series.

I'm used to driving games being crazy.

Used to play GT but that was back in the PS2 days.

On the topic of pc/console I do play pc games but only really RTS mainly on the basis that if I'm playing as an individual I prefer a controller, an I've seen some good attempts but nothing beats a keyboard an mouse for rts.

Although in all honesty it's been a looooong time since I gave FPS games a chance on the pc, I already feel dirty enough with all the strategy games on it! promised myself the pc was for my work lol. Is it that much easier on the pc?

Part of the "problem" with FPS games on PC these days is the pinpoint accuracy of the mouse, versus the, relatively, slow analogue stick.

With a mouse, it's easy to just pop out from cover, shoot someone in the head, and then duck back down again. By all means, they can be done with an analogue stick as well, but there's a reason why most console games have "Aim Assist".

It makes for a pretty significant difference in how the game is played, both singleplayer and multiplayer. It's a lot easier to get headshots on PC, making for some pretty short shootouts.

As for RTS on Consoles, I think the most interesting one I've ever seen is End War. Not that the game itself was very interesting, mind you, it was basically a 3D version of Rock-Paper-Scissors, but the voice control system impressed the hell outta me.

It could be a little finicky, but once you learned how to work it, it worked really well in my experience.
I even bought End War on PC as well, just to show some support for it.

Halo Wars was a much better Console RTS, and I can only cry tears of grief at what they might have achieved with that game if they'd used the End War voice control system.

 

[Loonyyy]

Why does anyone even wonder why people hate easy mode games?


HAVE YOU FUCKING PLAYED ASSASSINS CREED 3?! YOU CANT FUCKING LOSE!!!!
10 years ago, this game would have been a flop due to the difficulty. The only game that was even remotely as easy 10 years ago as today's AAA titles was Harry Potter, the first 2 games. Even those were much harder than most games today.

Shitty games are being made these days to cater to every single soccer mom and her 5 year old stepson to make the game so easy, it's essentially just watching a shitty movie with porn grade voice acting with a middle school story.

Instead of creating the new chess, developers are forced to make shitty shitty arkanoid remakes in 3d.

Every game sequel has had it's difficulty level lowered. With the advent of an easy mode for Dark Souls 2, we could see an unoptimized hard mode if easy mode is their main focus. It would just be easy mode with 20% Health and enemies deal 300% damage.

Now I personally don't mind easy modes being included, I hate it when a good game misses out on its potential by being too easy. I have play very few singleplayer games in the past year due to the fact that everything has become too easy...

Most games' hard difficulty nowadays is somewhere along the lines of what easy was 10 years ago. Not due to controls, but due to the fact that every family has a console.

"press X to not die"

These threads are a swan song for the last game in which you could die without going AFK.

It's happened to every other game, it's happening to Dark Souls.

Your example about AC3 is completely and utterly wrong. It's not that it's an "easy mode game". It's that the game is too easy. This whole thing plays both ways-modal difficulty allows players to choose the difficulty they want, and not including a variation of difficulty can either put off less, or more, skilled players.

You know what could have fixed AC3 for you? A good Hard Mode.

 

[CCountZero]

...This whole thing plays both ways-modal difficulty allows players to choose the difficulty they want, and not including a variation of difficulty can either put off less, or more, skilled players.

It's not all about modal difficulty though. Or rather, it could be, but it would be a lot more work than any developer is gonna put into it.

Modal difficulty basically just scales numbers up or down, and most of the time it results in a hard mode that feels cheap, and an easy mode that often ruins the story, by making the enemy feel less dangerous than the game makes them out to be.

If you added an "easy mode" to Souls, people would still be complaining about not being able to find their way, and getting lost.

 

[Polarity27]

Finally, how come the game has to change to include more people, rather than more people changing themselves to enjoy the game? What is even the point of trying to have a new experience when you get everything served up on a silver platter? If games are ever to be considered as something more than "mindless fun", you have to let go of the fact that games need to be "fun". The same way not all art is "pretty".

Letting that rather astonishing comment about games not needing to be fun (something can be fun without being *mindless* fun, and I don't buy games to make them my second job) go, that comment about "people changing themselves to enjoy the game" bugged me. Like many other older people and/or people with disabilities, I *can't* change myself to enjoy the game, it's physiologically impossible. I can't make my reaction time better, I can't change my inability to navigate a new environment where all the rooms/corridors look identical, I can't stop the fatigue, dulled reflexes, and slowed thinking that happens to me when I've wiped repeatedly in an encounter; these things are the cause of age and disability and there's not a damn thing I can do about them. Research? Yes, if I care enough about the game that's something I can and will do. Practice? Yes, I do that too. Sometimes both those things help, sometimes they don't. I just don't understand why so many of you don't understand that some of us use easier difficulty modes because life already handed us hardmode and it's the only way we can experience the game. Sure there are some people who like feeling like a god in the game, but a lot of us use lower settings because we have to.

Shitty games are being made these days to cater to every single soccer mom and her 5 year old stepson to make the game so easy, it's essentially just watching a shitty movie with porn grade voice acting with a middle school story.

I love that the thing that bugs you the most about modern games is that they're accessible to middle-aged women. OMG WE ARE EVIL AND INVADING UR STUFF! Funny, but I somehow don't remember the incredible story with incredible voice acting in the Atari games I played back in the day.

hate to say it, but I do easy mode on games where I dont give two shits about the gameplay and rather have the story.

good thing though that the multiplayer doesn't have difficulty modes.

dear god, could you imagine COD or Battlefield if you played on a "easy" server?

In a way, Halo Reach had easy servers, by being able to sort by skill for who you were matched with. That was fantastic, and the best of all worlds-- novice players like me could actually aspire to getting match 1st, and good, experienced players couldn't take advantage of "easy" mechanisms to score on newbies. They weren't actually easy, they were simply more accessible to more people. (And it was good for the really good players, too, they didn't have to get burdened with someone like me on their team.) I have no idea why 343 took it out, now I don't play multiplayer in Halo 4 because it's just not any fun.

In general: I wish difficulty settings were more customizable than just easy-normal-hard. There are things different people want from different difficulties. I often don't struggle with the combat but struggle horribly with getting lost and blundering into mobs while thinking I was going in the totally opposite direction. I sometimes find easy mode frustrating for that, because the mobs are too easy for me yet the damn thing still doesn't give me any navigational help! Instead of slower, less accurate mobs, it'd be great to have a checkbox for "easy navigation" that would pop up a minimap or a waypoint or an in-game attainable ability to pop up directional arrows on a cooldown or something. I do love Skyrim's ability to adjust difficulty in-fight, so you're not stuck with running an entire map or dungeon on a lower setting just to get past that one boss or that one room that you've just spent the last two hours dying in. Halo's skull system was good for this, too. You could set it on easy or normal and add skulls for things you were confident about-- I liked Mythic and Thuderstorm, but there's no way in holy hell I'd ever use the one that removes your HUD or the one that makes you repeat the level if you die. Basically, having easy modes is good, but having more granular ways to make the game easier or harder would be a whole lot better.

 

[shadowkrai]

At risk of saying something that's probably already been said, The ONLY reason I play games on the hardest difficulties is because I know that when I've completed it, there's not a huge chance of me going back to it, so I like to feel like I've actually completed it, not something I feel if I've only done easy mode.

 

[ThisGuyLikesNoTacos]

Easy mode gets hated because some people want to have difficult games, and having an easy mode devalues the games total difficulty, and since these days difficult games are rather niche.

It's only natural that the difficulty of Dark Souls is greatly exaggerated and overvalued because most of our games aren't that hard anymore.

 

[Something Amyss]

Which, ironically, conflicts with what the same people would be actually saying - that the devs are good at game/level design and know exactly how to make a game challenging but fair. If they can, they can make it just slightly less challanging without changing the entire game around that concept, if they cannot, then they don't deserve praise for this anyway.

That's an interesting point, and it does seem to fly in the face of the notion that "easy mode can't work."

I'm not particularly convinced the game is well-balanced to begin with, but considering people think the game is so well-balanced and that this is a feat, it seems funny that allowing a lower difficulty would somehow destroy the game.

However, it is interesting to see the masses supposedly clamoring, when one considers the outraged was based on a misinterpretation of a developer suggestion.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I have yet to see a single logical argument that proves how Modal Difficulty (Easy/Hard/Banana/etc) ruins their experience.

DUDE. Don't even fucking JOKE about Banana difficulty. Literally one of the hardest experiences of my life. I still have 'Nam flashbacks about it.

When you stare into the abyss of Banana Mode, it stares back. It changes you....

It starts out so innocent and harmless..how could a banana be threatening? It's so smooth, yellow and inviting like a sunny day.

But then...as time goes on, it takes on a sinister new tone; Banana Mode tricks you, deceives you, causes you to slip up over and over...eventually it peels back the smooth, firm exterior of your soul to reveal the softer, vulnerable, tasty innards.

You don't eat Banana Mode...Banana Mode eats you.

 

[-Samurai-]

Wait. People still brag about beating games? Is this the 80s? I thought bragging was reserved for people that accomplished something, not someone that does what millions of others have done, or will do.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Wait. People still brag about beating games? Is this the 80s? I thought bragging was reserved for people that accomplished something, not someone that does what millions of others have done, or will do.

Every time someone preens about beating a single player game I'm reminded of this guy:

If you haven't seen The King of Kong, I highly recommend it. Hilarious film, and a pretty cutting look at a gaming community obsessed with high scores as opposed to having a good time.

 

[-Samurai-]

Wait. People still brag about beating games? Is this the 80s? I thought bragging was reserved for people that accomplished something, not someone that does what millions of others have done, or will do.

Every time someone preens about beating a single player game I'm reminded of this guy:

If you haven't seen The King of Kong, I highly recommend it. Hilarious film, and a pretty cutting look at a gaming community obsessed with high scores as opposed to having a good time.

Oh god no. I don't know if it was The King of Kong, but I watched an arcade games documentary on Netflix that had that guy. Ugh.

 

[SweetLiquidSnake]

This is a double edge, and not just in gaming because things that could and should be easier aren't changed cuz some old coot keeps saying "i busted my ass and you better do it too". Say for university the program you want makes you take certain useless electives, and they won't change it cuz the most recent graduating class just did it and they'll be pissed so a useless tradition of shit keeps going for generations instead of fixing itself.

For games like Dark Souls, which I gave up on after a week of unfun shit gaming, an easy mode still wouldn't interest me since it's a lacking game to begin with (don't reply to that I frankly don't care) but have something detrimental to counter it out, such as achievements don't unlock on easy.

Like in Halo, 2 people can claim to beat a Halo game, but if one does it in Normal and one on Legendary, the legend can have their precious bragging rights and people will recognize it.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

Jesus christ it's like people don't seem to realise developers could just create the hard mode first and then put in the easy mode. That way you avoid all the "it'll change how its designed" bullshit and they no longer have a leg to stand on.

That would only work if making a game easier was as simple as scaling a few numbers. It isn't.

How do you make a platformer easier? Do you have two sets of almost identical levels? How do you make a driving section more difficult? Or how do you make strategy easy, without basically making the goals easy enough to accomplish that strategy isn't necessary? How do you pull out pieces of a complex system in order to make a game simpler without completely redesigning the system? How do you make a game that was designed around challenge not feel bland when the core aesthetic is removed? How do you keep all of the flashiness and cruft that comes from trying to keep a straight button masher interesting from impacting the careful balance of the game on hard mode?

Making a game that can be both extremely easy and genuinely challenging introduces a set of limitations and compromises that not all games should have to abide by. Saying that every game should have an easy mode is like saying that an entire genre of game shouldn't exist.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

How do you make a platformer easier

There is no platforming in Dark Souls.

Do you have two sets of almost identical levels?

You could use the identical levels.

How do you make a driving section more difficult?

There are no driving sections in Dark Souls.

Or how do you make strategy easy, without basically making the goals easy enough to accomplish that strategy isn't necessary?

All Strategy Games outside of highly simple ones could easily be modified simply by dialing down numbers. We already see this in all of the most popular strategy games on the market, from Civ to XCOM to HoMM...I could go on and on.

How do you pull out pieces of a complex system in order to make a game simpler without completely redesigning the system?

You don't need to.

How do you make a game that was designed around challenge not feel bland when the core aesthetic is removed?

The challenge is not removed, it is reduced, to appeal to an audience that requires a reduced challenge. It's not for you.

Saying that every game should have an easy mode is like saying that an entire genre of game shouldn't exist.

"Hard" is not a genre.

 

[Tony2077]

as long as its an option i don't see a problem other then people whining about it. if the whole game is made easier without having the option of changing it i can see getting upset about that but don't make a mountain out of a mole hole

 

[BloodSquirrel]

There is no platforming in Dark Souls.
There are no driving sections in Dark Souls.

It's called "demonstrating a concept".

You could use the identical levels.

You don't need to.

So you don't have an answer to the question, then.

All Strategy Games outside of highly simple ones could easily be modified simply by dialing down numbers. We already see this in all of the most popular strategy games on the market, from Civ to XCOM to HoMM...I could go on and on.

You aren't actually explaining how that makes the strategy easier without just removing the need for it so that players can take a more brute force approach.

The challenge is not removed, it is reduced, to appeal to an audience that requires a reduced challenge. It's not for you.

"I want the game to be so easy that anybody can beat it" is not reducing the challenge- it's removing it.

"Hard" is not a genre.

It's a defining element that radically changes the appeal of a game. It's as important as anything else we'd consider as part of defining a genre.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

It's called "demonstrating a concept".

You're going to want to pick a better analogy if you want to demonstrate a concept. Attempting to demonstrate that an easy mode in a non-platforming RPG is impossible because of platforming is a bit of a non-starter.

You aren't actually explaining how that makes the strategy easier without just removing the need for it so that players can take a more brute force approach.

Well that's basically what it does, yeah? It means your strategy can be more sloppy. Ergo, you have an easier strategy game, that a poor or learning strategist can more easily enjoy.

"I want the game to be so easy that anybody can beat it" is not reducing the challenge- it's removing it.

Whose quote is that? It sounds suspiciously like a quote attributable to Mr. Straw Man.

It's a defining element that radically changes the appeal of a game. It's as important as anything else we'd consider as part of defining a genre.

No, it isn't really. Otherwise 4 different difficulty levels of a first person shooter would suddenly find themselves in four different genres. It's an element of game play, of varying importance to different individuals. You can argue that it's important. You can possibly even argue, cogently, that it's essential in a game like Dark Souls in order to have an optimal experience. But it is not a distinct genre.

And, as always, "difficult" varies from individual to individual.