Since all of the psp games are banned, this probably isn't a big loss for Australians.DrunkWithPower said:
EB Games Australia to Boycott PSPgo Too?
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
Good god, where do I start?
Firstly, good for the retailers for not taking a bum deal. If Sony wants to cut retailers out of the games market, they sure as hell better make up for it with hardware profits, otherwise why should retailers even care?
Also, fuck any publisher who dislikes the used games market. There's a little thing called the First Sale Doctrine (at least, if you are American, though every country really should have this) that says, if you buy something, you can do whatever you want with it, including selling it to somebody else, and there's not a goddamn thing the original seller can do. So what do modern publishers do? Load it up with DRM so that, even if you did sell it, nobody else could use it. Fuck that. Just because you have the technological means doesn't mean you can go breaking laws -- that's what your beloved DMCA is all about.
If they are so worried about used games, maybe they should make games that people don't want to resell a week later. No retailer is going broke because their 5 year old copy of a bargain bin game isn't selling; the money they are after is for new games. If there's already a market for used games when copies are still flying off the shelves, clearly their product doesn't have any staying power.
While they're at it, maybe they should ban rentals, reviews, and the ability to lend your console to a friend. God knows they'd sell a lot more if unsuspecting consumers couldn't find out the game was shit until after they had spent $60 on it.
Good christ. It's far past time these old media moguls died.
Firstly, good for the retailers for not taking a bum deal. If Sony wants to cut retailers out of the games market, they sure as hell better make up for it with hardware profits, otherwise why should retailers even care?
Also, fuck any publisher who dislikes the used games market. There's a little thing called the First Sale Doctrine (at least, if you are American, though every country really should have this) that says, if you buy something, you can do whatever you want with it, including selling it to somebody else, and there's not a goddamn thing the original seller can do. So what do modern publishers do? Load it up with DRM so that, even if you did sell it, nobody else could use it. Fuck that. Just because you have the technological means doesn't mean you can go breaking laws -- that's what your beloved DMCA is all about.
If they are so worried about used games, maybe they should make games that people don't want to resell a week later. No retailer is going broke because their 5 year old copy of a bargain bin game isn't selling; the money they are after is for new games. If there's already a market for used games when copies are still flying off the shelves, clearly their product doesn't have any staying power.
While they're at it, maybe they should ban rentals, reviews, and the ability to lend your console to a friend. God knows they'd sell a lot more if unsuspecting consumers couldn't find out the game was shit until after they had spent $60 on it.
Good christ. It's far past time these old media moguls died.
The console makes them piddly crap, to be honest. And it isn't just *used* games, it's games in general - the markup on software is MUCH higher than on hardware.TsunamiWombat said:
In what way is it not a retailer's business to decide what it's going to stock? They have no obligation to Sony or anyone else.
as a pc user i only buy games either via download or off the net since its often 10-20% cheaper, its about time the stores died out, i may sound bitter, and thats because i am!, i get way better service from steam or other on line stores, i get a cheaper price and i dont use my entire shopping experience either running around a store looking for a game they may not have or use my entire shopping experience telling some dude that i am only interested in this particular game.
the shops looses on every single point, except that sometimes you have to wait 1-2 days for the game, but the 20% saving and the rest makes up for it.
the shops looses on every single point, except that sometimes you have to wait 1-2 days for the game, but the 20% saving and the rest makes up for it.
Why?Therumancer said:
The DSi is doing nothing different than every other console out there that currently supports DLC. And the fact of the matter is, DLC is the greatest tool an indie developer has to reach the market. Not every publisher/developer can afford the costs associated with creating the discs and packaging. And without Indie developers we wouldn't have gems like Shadow Complex, Fat Princess or Flip Champs. The idea of a system that utilizes DLC only may not be wanted right now but it is the direction things are heading(look at PC games.)
I won't be buying one purely for the facts
A.I like my PSP games thank you very much
B.I want to be able to trade IN a game from my PSP (in case the games SUCKS)
C. I have a perfectly good PSP that I have no desire to give up.
There's just something fishy about buying a downloadable game...
A.I like my PSP games thank you very much
B.I want to be able to trade IN a game from my PSP (in case the games SUCKS)
C. I have a perfectly good PSP that I have no desire to give up.
There's just something fishy about buying a downloadable game...
Yeah seriously if we're supposed to look down on people with a DSi then we might as well look down on people with regular PSPs, Xbox 360s, PS3s, Nintendo Wii, use Steam, use Impulse, use GoG.com, use an Emulator, etc.PaleKnight09 said:
Hell why would anybody ridicule somebody based on their console choice, that's just dumb. I agreed with most everything else Therumancer said but this...this was just a bad and misinformed thing to say.
Anyway back onto the PSPGo. In between the price tag and the retailer backlash it's really not looking too good for Sony here, and perhaps rightfully so. My borderline hatred for them aside I think what they've really needed is someone or something to knock them off their pedestal and give them a reality check, and this could be what does it.
I think you missed my point. A retailer doesn't want to sell the game player (PSPgo) because they're not able to sell the games for it, but there are plenty of retailers that sell a music player that aren't able to/ choose not to sell the music for it.Lvl 64 Klutz said:
If tomorrow all music companies decided to stop selling music in disc form and made it all download only, would these retailers retaliate by not selling MP3/ CD players anymore?
Besides, last time I checked itunes sell MP4s and they don't work on other MP3 players unless you find a way to crack them. Correct me if I'm wrong as it's been a while since I did buy from their store.
I can honestly say where I am in the UK hardly any of the stores are selling PSP games and when they do it's a very small selection. Online retail is another thing, but why buy retail online when you can get it for download at Sony's online store much faster?ChromeAlchemist said:
And seriously, what's wrong with that? It's Sony's choice if they don't want other companies to have a piece of their pie. It's not as if it's illegal, against human rights or they're preventing people from buying their products completely (that I know of). There is nothing 'not fair' about this at all.
And if you don't like the price of their products i.e. you find it costs too much, then don't buy it. Simple as. You're not forced to buy the PSPgo or their games. Not their fault if you don't want to pay £30 for a downloadable game.
Anyway, if very few people do start buying their products at such a high price then they'll be forced to reduce them. That's exactly what's happened with the PS3. And they've sold the slim at a cheaper price because of it.
And what would one catergorize things like WiiWare then, which allow smaller devs to deliver episodic games or other smaller titles for a lower price? Hell if we want to compare things a bit more directly Microsoft let us download XBox 1 titles to the 360 (some of them) for about $12 a title so even they sort of had the right idea (shocking, I know)Arehexes said:
Like I said with the other retailer, EB games is just being a bunch of babies.
The retailer reminds me alot of half the people on the Escapist. They just need a reason to hate Sony so badly and they choose this. When they lack a reason to post "LOL THEY SUX!" They get sad and cut themselves.
Seriously, can't these people grow a pair and just try stocking them for a bit? If it doesn't make them any money at all, then they can stop.
The retailer reminds me alot of half the people on the Escapist. They just need a reason to hate Sony so badly and they choose this. When they lack a reason to post "LOL THEY SUX!" They get sad and cut themselves.
Seriously, can't these people grow a pair and just try stocking them for a bit? If it doesn't make them any money at all, then they can stop.
I'm not sure why this trend is getting bigger with the digital games, it's not going to sell to a lot of people consindering a big chunk of gamers like having REAL PHYSICAL COPIES. Yes they can make more money by selling the games directly with no real production costs but there's a lot of people who won't.
I'm sticking with my PSP2000, because in 10 years I'll still have my games to play, with the PSPGo? I'm sure after a while the system might need replacing then how would I get my games back other than pirating? There's no REAL guarantee that the games would still be "owned" by me.
And backwards compatibility being replaced by rebuying games digitally? No, not even gonna bother. I'll just sum it up like this, I'm playing Final Fantasy Tactics on my PSOne you're not getting my money twice for the exact same game.
I'm sticking with my PSP2000, because in 10 years I'll still have my games to play, with the PSPGo? I'm sure after a while the system might need replacing then how would I get my games back other than pirating? There's no REAL guarantee that the games would still be "owned" by me.
And backwards compatibility being replaced by rebuying games digitally? No, not even gonna bother. I'll just sum it up like this, I'm playing Final Fantasy Tactics on my PSOne you're not getting my money twice for the exact same game.
I'm not quite sure why you would do that to someone with a DSi, and you're being a bit extreme in saying that you should bully people.Therumancer said:
However, I will agree that the PSP Go is a terrible idea, and I hope that all the retailers eventually catch on and refuse to sell it.
I'm using Download Content as a term to blanket the concept, since you are Downloading Content to be played on your console, regardless of whether it is an add-on or not. But either way the Xbox Live Arcade, PlayStationNetwork and WiiWare are are great additions to those systems.Arehexes said:
And there are also many games for download that play just as long as some retail games.
AceDiamond said:
Actually things like Wiiware and the like are examples of exactly where the industry should NOT have been going, and sort of what we're out to kill. Better examples however would be things like the recent service XBL has put up to DL full, current generation games, as well as services like Steam and the like.
Originally the arguement that this would benefit small, independant developers was compelling, and was made right along the idea of games in general having their prices lower. In the end however even services like Steam and Gamersgate failed to deliver lower prices on retail products. What's more all it did was make it easier for idependant developers to flood the market with shovelware that wouldn't even be able to hold up a $9.99 package at Wal*Mart.
This of course to some extent tying into the issue of price fixing and the like, given that a small game developed on a shoestring budget will generally retail for the same amount as a veteral developed AAA title. This is even true on DLable services.
Wiiware and the like present something for someone to point at, but actually it's a tiny exception, and not the rule. Compared to the future things like the DSI and PSPgo represent, where consumers lose all the rights they currently have, and EVERY title is digital, well honestly all I can say is tough cookies for them.
In general DLC was justified as doing 2 things:
#1: It would allow the publishers to continue delivering the same quality of product for less of a price by cutting out packaging and distributers. In theory it could do this, but it will not because all of that money is taken as pure profit. The industry has proven itself too greedy to follow through on the process, and unless they voluntarily seek to create legislation on themselves I am not going to trust a sudden change of heart.
#2: It would allow publishers to easily produce expansions and more content for existing games. This included the promise of free upgrades (which never really materialized for various reasons, though some people DID try), as well as easily distribute expansion packs.
When this was being done we were looking at examples like the old "Forge Of Virtue" and "Silver Seed" content for Ultima 7, or the Secret Missions/Special Operations packs for Wing Commander, not to mention the various expansions Bethesda did for products like The Elder Scrolls.
On paper the idea sounded good. Instead of $20 they could charge me like $10 for like an equivilent to the "Isle Of Virtue" for my favorite RPG game.
What we got instead were things that fall FAR short of full fledged expansion packs, and those that do retail for the high prices they always did. Heck the price to buy an expansion in the store (when possible) and online is usually identical (proving epic fail right there).
Heck, in the majority of cases DLC is used as an excuse to basically get people to activate content that was already on their disc, or pay for things like multiplayer modes that should have been part of the package to begin with. DLC became an excuse for companies to no longer create full and competitive packages, but to release as little as possible for the money and they get people to pay for every bloody upgrade they want.
A lot of the companies doing the whole "pay to activate" thing use the arguement of people basically paying for the features they want, without being saddled with having purchused a package that included content they would never use. However given that the basic game STILL costs you like $60 this is complete BS. It isn't like they sold Resident Evil 5 for $30 and then charged you the other half of the price for the multiplayer mode only if you wanted it. No it was $60, plus extra.
In general the DSi represents a trend, and generally speaking for all of the wonderful talking points by the industry, they have proven themselves to be absolutly full of garbage. Digital Downloads have done NOTHING except increase their profit margins, it has benefitted the consumer in no way whatsoever, and has actually hurt us.
scotth266 said:
Well, what I'm talking about is starting active, grassroots resistance. Think of it as like being part of a union. A company does something the workers don't like to the point the Union decides to take massive action. A strike ensues to effectively halt activity at the company and cost the bosses money. Well during a strike there are going to be people who simply can't afford to not be paid while this is going on for whatever reason. The thing is that you can't just let them go to work and do whatever they want because by them keeping the company running it hurts EVERYONE. People who do this are referred to as "Scabs".
To put things into perspective, this kind of a trend towards digital content hurts everyone. Oh sure there are people out there who are going to support it, or have various reasons why they personally want it or find it useful. However by doing so they hurt the rest of the gaming community. Thus it is in the best interests of everyone in opposition to what is going on to object to what they are doing in the strongest way possible.
I of course encourage nothing illegal, but you know how people who try and cross company picket lines have a nasty tendency to get mugged in parking lots, suffer home invasions, have their property destroyed, and similar things. Not to mention the accidents they suffer when people inevitably go back to work (the wounds may heal, but the scabs remain)... well I think PSPgo and DSi owners might deserve some similar bad luck. Maybe it's angry gypsies or something . Even if you don't hurt them, every PSPgo or DSi that gets broken and knocked off the network is a benefit for the cause.
The point is that big issues take big solutions, and while nothing could be organized on the level of union activity ("all us GOOD union boys vouch for each other's prescence here in this bar while that guy got put in the hospital officer"). My overall point is that this is not a problem that can be solved by a bit of whining, or even some individuals, what it takes is a general consensus of a community willing to act.
At this stage I'd like suggest to your local retailers that they don't carry DSi and PSP units. See if you can get people together and go together. If they start showing up on the streets, well... hopefully enough people will use their imagination a trend will be noticed and actually get mentioned on the news and the message will sink in that as things stand now DD technology is not something the consumers are going to stand for.
As amusing as a "Handheld tea party" would be, sadly while I can see some bullying and such, I can't see a bunch of gamers burning PSPgo units being transported to the stores.
You know this is all hypothetical, and smack talking. I would never encourage anyone to do anything illegal or consider it on my own.