EDIT: No Russian

[AlphaEcho]

heh, I was just thinking about this. I rented MW3 (not gonna buy it), and it's just kind of wierd how the drone enemies are Russian soldiers. Not Russian terrorists, or extremists, or even commies, but regular Russian infantry men. Games do this a lot, using Russians as cannon fodder. I agree that the "no russian" level was a particularly egregious example. You know if it was set in the US there would have been a media tidal wave condemning the game, but since it was just Russians it was not really anything out of the ordinary.

No media shit storm? What rock have you been living in?

heh, I was just thinking about this. I rented MW3 (not gonna buy it), and it's just kind of wierd how the drone enemies are Russian soldiers. Not Russian terrorists, or extremists, or even commies, but regular Russian infantry men. Games do this a lot, using Russians as cannon fodder. I agree that the "no russian" level was a particularly egregious example. You know if it was set in the US there would have been a media tidal wave condemning the game, but since it was just Russians it was not really anything out of the ordinary.

EXACTLY! if a game was released with Russians soldiers shooting American soldiers it would get slaughtered in the media and it does not matter if there are a few good Russian guys in your team at the end of the day you are an American soldier shooting Russians.

No shit it does not matter, those are foreign soldiers, ones who you have a good chance of never meeting in real life. The US soldiers are the one that protect US where Russian soldiers sort of protect Russia. We have little reason to feel bad over that.

There is no anti Russian attitude. The thing is that America needs a conveinent enemy to put in their games, if you had not noticed; in the world right now no one can match the US military. We have no one to be really afraid of, so we have to move back and look at our past enemies. World war II has been done to death so that is out of question, so why not WWIII? The most likely scenario is an alternate Cold War, which is always neat and Russians are sort of mandatory, however it takes a lot of work so developers do not go for it.

The other one is a more modern version where you only have to have some shit storytelling and have WWIII. Cod went with that. Its not that they hate Russians, its just that Russians are the most convenient bad guy, despite them no longer being very powerful.

 

[tokae]

LOL, Sound like this : http://synthesis.net/2008/08/20/russia-keeps-getting-pissed/

Hehe, that was kind of what I was going for.
But yeah, as I previously stated, it weirds me out somewhat with me being Russian, and a proud one at that.. But it's just games, let the Americans play heroes for a while. With their economy they need something to feel good about.

 

[urilukin]

heh, I was just thinking about this. I rented MW3 (not gonna buy it), and it's just kind of wierd how the drone enemies are Russian soldiers. Not Russian terrorists, or extremists, or even commies, but regular Russian infantry men. Games do this a lot, using Russians as cannon fodder. I agree that the "no russian" level was a particularly egregious example. You know if it was set in the US there would have been a media tidal wave condemning the game, but since it was just Russians it was not really anything out of the ordinary.

No media shit storm? What rock have you been living in?

heh, I was just thinking about this. I rented MW3 (not gonna buy it), and it's just kind of wierd how the drone enemies are Russian soldiers. Not Russian terrorists, or extremists, or even commies, but regular Russian infantry men. Games do this a lot, using Russians as cannon fodder. I agree that the "no russian" level was a particularly egregious example. You know if it was set in the US there would have been a media tidal wave condemning the game, but since it was just Russians it was not really anything out of the ordinary.

EXACTLY! if a game was released with Russians soldiers shooting American soldiers it would get slaughtered in the media and it does not matter if there are a few good Russian guys in your team at the end of the day you are an American soldier shooting Russians.

No shit it does not matter, those are foreign soldiers, ones who you have a good chance of never meeting in real life. The US soldiers are the one that protect US where Russian soldiers sort of protect Russia. We have little reason to feel bad over that.

There is no anti Russian attitude. The thing is that America needs a conveinent enemy to put in their games, if you had not noticed; in the world right now no one can match the US military. We have no one to be really afraid of, so we have to move back and look at our past enemies. World war II has been done to death so that is out of question, so why not WWIII? The most likely scenario is an alternate Cold War, which is always neat and Russians are sort of mandatory, however it takes a lot of work so developers do not go for it.

The other one is a more modern version where you only have to have some shit storytelling and have WWIII. Cod went with that. Its not that they hate Russians, its just that Russians are the most convenient bad guy, despite them no longer being very powerful.

Have you read my other posts? Me, 2 seconds ago:

I said we shouldn't make up excuses like "they are a convenient enemy" reviewers should knok down points and gamers should demand better story and not just multiplayer.""

so i am quite aware of Russians just being easy bad dudes.

 

[tokae]

The other one is a more modern version where you only have to have some shit storytelling and have WWIII. Cod went with that. Its not that they hate Russians, its just that Russians are the most convenient bad guy, despite them no longer being very powerful.

Your right in your reasonings, that's not the part I picked up on though since I agree with them.
But Russia actually is as strong as ever.. It's just that they keep to themselves and don't announce everything to the world. Sure the government is weak, very much so, but the army and the population at large..

I promise, I'm done de-railing this thread now!
Or almost..

Have everyone forgotten about China? I mean, if you have to go for a conventional enemy then that's atleast the first place I would look.
I still think that in the event of a third world war, it would be the US coallition versus Russia versus China (and probably North Korea, though their realations with China are not that good at the moment).

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Actually, only a few missions in MW3 have you fighting the Russian army (who, by the way, are actively invading most of Europe and the US. It isn't like we are blowing up innocent bystanders here)

In MW3, yes. In MW2 you are exactly blowing up innocent bystanders. I get your point, that it's a convenient target, but that doesn't make it right. Russia never attacked us, as bad as things got. And besides that Russia has been a western style democracy with diplomatic ties to the rest of the world for longer than most CoD players have been alive for. It makes sense to use Russians as target practice in games, because it's safe and easy. It's also extremely lazy and, in my opinion, in bad taste.

What do you mean innocent? They are invading the U.S.! Were the Rangers supposed to just let them waltz in?

*cough* No Russian level? *cough* Someone needs to read through the thread again properly, or at least inform themselves of the facts regarding certain games.

No Russian was Makaov (a Russian) and his gang (more russians) killing Russian civilians. Allen was there, but as a mole and informant, and did not represent US authorization or support of the attack. Plus, he was only there as bait to force a Russian/US war. And you never have to fire a shot.

 

[AlphaEcho]

The other one is a more modern version where you only have to have some shit storytelling and have WWIII. Cod went with that. Its not that they hate Russians, its just that Russians are the most convenient bad guy, despite them no longer being very powerful.

Your right in your reasonings, that's not the part I picked up on though since I agree with them.
But Russia actually is as strong as ever.. It's just that they keep to themselves and don't announce everything to the world. Sure the government is weak, very much so, but the army and the population at large..

I promise, I'm done de-railing this thread now!
Or almost..

Have everyone forgotten about China? I mean, if you have to go for a conventional enemy then that's atleast the first place I would look.
I still think that in the event of a third world war, it would be the US coallition versus Russia versus China (and probably North Korea, though their realations with China are not that good at the moment).

Russia and China are both pretty weak. The Russian military is very good at making them selves look good, but in actuality they have been a bit of a joke since the Cold War. Their air force and navy has never been anything too good, even in the war. Their soldiers themselves have very little discipline and many of them still use outdated equipment.

China is like that times eleven. Their navy and air force is almost non existent. They made an aircraft carrier you say? Look at how many we already have. Their equipment is almost entirely based around ancient ones used in the sixties. Their discipline and morale is almost zero and the only thing really going for them is the mass number of them.

Tell me, how would any of them even GET to America?

 

[urilukin]

The other one is a more modern version where you only have to have some shit storytelling and have WWIII. Cod went with that. Its not that they hate Russians, its just that Russians are the most convenient bad guy, despite them no longer being very powerful.

Your right in your reasonings, that's not the part I picked up on though since I agree with them.
But Russia actually is as strong as ever.. It's just that they keep to themselves and don't announce everything to the world. Sure the government is weak, very much so, but the army and the population at large..

I promise, I'm done de-railing this thread now!
Or almost..

Have everyone forgotten about China? I mean, if you have to go for a conventional enemy then that's atleast the first place I would look.
I still think that in the event of a third world war, it would be the US coallition versus Russia versus China (and probably North Korea, though their realations with China are not that good at the moment).

Russia and China are both pretty weak. The Russian military is very good at making them selves look good, but in actuality they have been a bit of a joke since the Cold War. Their air force and navy has never been anything too good, even in the war. Their soldiers themselves have very little discipline and many of them still use outdated equipment.

China is like that times eleven. Their navy and air force is almost non existent. They made an aircraft carrier you say? Look at how many we already have. Their equipment is almost entirely based around ancient ones used in the sixties. Their discipline and morale is almost zero and the only thing really going for them is the mass number of them.

Tell me, how would any of them even GET to America?

I don't want to get into the Russian military even thou a lot of what you said is incorrect but China?! they can pwn basically every military on earth even if the soldiers were armed with sticks just because of the sheer numbers!

p.s america also uses 1960s equipment(m16):3

 

[tokae]

Russia and China are both pretty weak. The Russian military is very good at making them selves look good, but in actuality they have been a bit of a joke since the Cold War. Their air force and navy has never been anything too good, even in the war. Their soldiers themselves have very little discipline and many of them still use outdated equipment.

China is like that times eleven. Their navy and air force is almost non existent. They made an aircraft carrier you say? Look at how many we already have. Their equipment is almost entirely based around ancient ones used in the sixties. Their discipline and morale is almost zero and the only thing really going for them is the mass number of them.

Tell me, how would any of them even GET to America?

Well then, forcing me to break a promise are we?

The Russian military have been down in the dumps yes, but they have effectively managed to climb back up. The Navy is being upgraded and the airforce.. Well, I'll give you that one because I haven't got a clue about that really.
And that the soldiers would lack discipline? The litteraly beat enlisters until the required level of discipline is achieved. The same goes for their training actually.

And China.. Well yes, what they have is numbers. HUGE numbers. Botch in their wealth and their population. If they don't buy America they could build a human bridge there and still have a considerable army for invasion left.

And not to dump on America in any way, but the way they have been stomping around the world since the last decade, they will probably end up starting WWIII.

 

[urilukin]

Russia and China are both pretty weak. The Russian military is very good at making them selves look good, but in actuality they have been a bit of a joke since the Cold War. Their air force and navy has never been anything too good, even in the war. Their soldiers themselves have very little discipline and many of them still use outdated equipment.

China is like that times eleven. Their navy and air force is almost non existent. They made an aircraft carrier you say? Look at how many we already have. Their equipment is almost entirely based around ancient ones used in the sixties. Their discipline and morale is almost zero and the only thing really going for them is the mass number of them.

Tell me, how would any of them even GET to America?

Well then, forcing me to break a promise are we?

The Russian military have been down in the dumps yes, but they have effectively managed to climb back up. The Navy is being upgraded and the airforce.. Well, I'll give you that one because I haven't got a clue about that really.
And that the soldiers would lack discipline? The litteraly beat enlisters until the required level of discipline is achieved. The same goes for their training actually.

And China.. Well yes, what they have is numbers. HUGE numbers. Botch in their wealth and their population. If they don't buy America they could build a human bridge there and still have a considerable army for invasion left.

And not to dump on America in any way, but the way they have been stomping around the world since the last decade, they will probably end up starting WWIII.

Just so you know the air force is one of the best they have su-27s and super advanced helicopters even now in front of me there is a model of the Russian "aligator" choppa

 

[Ryotknife]

alpha protocol has you killing american soldiers
halflife has you killing american soldiers
MW2 has you killing american soldiers
HF2 has you fighting americans
splinter cell conviction has you fighting american black ops.

etc etc etc.

 

[urilukin]

alpha protocol has you killing american soldiers
halflife has you killing american soldiers
MW2 has you killing american soldiers
HF2 has you fighting americans
splinter cell conviction has you fighting american black ops.

etc etc etc.

I'm talking about generic AAA FPS's

EDIT:alpha protocol is shit
splinter cell conviction is shit

 

[Ryotknife]

other than alpha protocol, all of those are AAA titles

either way, just as many americans get displayed as villians, especially if they are motivated by greed.

you cant use modern warfare 1 or 2 as an example. in MW1 yes the main villians are a group of russians, but the actual russian government was a good guy who saved your character's butt in the end.

in MW2 the villians are makarov, a russian terrorist, and shepard, an american general. the russians were tricked into fighting the americans.

 

[urilukin]

other than alpha protocol, all of those are AAA titles

either way, just as many americans get displayed as villians, especially if they are motivated by greed.

you cant use modern warfare 1 or 2 as an example. in MW1 yes the main villians are a group of russians, but the actual russian government was a good guy who saved your character's butt in the end.

in MW2 the villians are makarov, a russian terrorist, and shepard, an american general. the russians were tricked into fighting the americans.

As someone else on this thread said before, in mw3 you are shooting Russian soldiers not terrorist not ex-commies but soldiers.

 

[Brinnmilo]

In all likelihood it's because Russia is the only country America can sensibly contend with. Russians tend to be Caucasian so the whole racism issue is a lot less likely to be raised than if it was America vs China (the only other real contender).

It would be interesting to have an American vs EU game but we (the EU) would get crushed, there would be no tension. It would be a lot more interesting to play a game with evil Americans against friendly Russians though.

 

[Phishfood]

In all likelihood it's because Russia is the only country America can sensibly contend with. Russians tend to be Caucasian so the whole racism issue is a lot less likely to be raised than if it was America vs China (the only other real contender).

It would be interesting to have an American vs EU game but we (the EU) would get crushed, there would be no tension. It would be a lot more interesting to play a game with evil Americans against friendly Russians though.

On behalf of the UK I have to say we would kick america's ass, sure there are more americans but I'd bet heavily on the SAS winning over marines.

Of course, its a moot point since in the "real world" the UK would be right next to america screaming "lets kill us some frogs!"

 

[Toeys]

Really guys, do you leave Segal movies this much attention and discussion?

 

[Jegsimmons]

So a long time ago I posted this : (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.304300-No-Russian?page=1)
fell free to comment on that post.

Anyway, I want to bring the subject back into the spotlight because almost all of the comments were about the No "Russian mission" and maybe that was a bad example what I wanted to say is that there is a VERY anti-Russian attitude in modern FPS's and we shouldn't make up excuses like "Oh,you know there was one good Russian dude the the game wasn't anti-Russian" for their shitty storytelling.

ive played quite a few modern cobat game, tom clanct, battlefield, COD.

and while i am aware russians are used as antagonist,Tom Clancy games usually give a valid realistic reason (ultra nationalist takeing over like in ghost recon which did this in 2002 so COD ripped GR off before anyone says anything) in battlefield 2 it's shown a civil war broke out between current russia and old school communist so that explains battlefield.
and while yes COD gives reasons, its ultra thin and they really go out of the way to make the russian AI pretty shitty. hell russians can defend them selves pretty good in battlefield bad company and ghost recon.

It was about Modern Warfare 2 when i really got tired of the russian thing. Is it so hard to fight the taliban? Iran? North Korea? or anyone else? im actually starting to feel bad for the russians that you played as in Finest hour....and by the way, did any else notice how fucking evil they were in World At War when they executed prisoners and shot cowards? im not saying they DIDN'T do that, but the game go out of their way to show it. I don't think Russians are particularly genocidal.

 

[Jegsimmons]

Really guys, do you leave Segal movies this much attention and discussion?

to you actually watch segal movies?

 

[Jegsimmons]

In all likelihood it's because Russia is the only country America can sensibly contend with. Russians tend to be Caucasian so the whole racism issue is a lot less likely to be raised than if it was America vs China (the only other real contender).

It would be interesting to have an American vs EU game but we (the EU) would get crushed, there would be no tension. It would be a lot more interesting to play a game with evil Americans against friendly Russians though.

On behalf of the UK I have to say we would kick america's ass, sure there are more americans but I'd bet heavily on the SAS winning over marines.

Of course, its a moot point since in the "real world" the UK would be right next to america screaming "lets kill us some frogs!"

um, i dont know dude, granted SAS is badass, but your going up not only Marines, but green berets and navy seals. and granted the US and UK would NEVER go to war (high five buddy) but i doubt you have ENOUGH SAS troopers to win a full scale war like that. Besides, you underestimate a US marine.
the only europeon country im remotely scared of is the Switzerland and ireland. Because swiss have the fourth highest militia count (1st being the US) and even the NAZIs wouldn't invade them.....something about the Swiss just screams "Dont fuck with" and Ireland is just badass.