Election results discussion thread (and sadly the inevitable aftermath)

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Houseman

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What we need to remember is that these are 100 affidavits... of approximately 100 separate incidents:
Also not true. At the "real hearing", almost all of the witnesses (all of which also had affidavits) were from one single county, from a single counting location, by design. Many of their testimonies overlapped, and many of them corroborated the same things.

Go ahead and watch it yourself if you have 7 hours to spare.
 

SilentPony

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What we need to remember is that these are 100 affidavits... of approximately 100 separate incidents: one feeble claim per alleged incident that cannot be verified by other facts. Like, "Here's a video of a guy doing something with a USB drive! BOOM!" Er... okay then.

I mean, you can find 100 people who said they were abducted by aliens and will describe their experience. Few think it's a compelling proof aliens exist.
And you have to remember the """evidence""" is I think one of the judges described it as "hearsay of hearsay". They claim they heard someone else claim they heard someone else claim there was voter fraud. They're about as reliable and allowable in court as guys from this forum would be, because technically they've heard people say other people have heard others say there was fraud.

And then there is the circumstantial """evidence""" they use to draw wild conclusions, like the delivery van looked too small to deliver pizzas, therefore it must be for ballot fraud and then demanding the courts prove it wasn't, and then citing that as evidence of a cover up.

Its conspiracy theory 101. No evidence is evidence of a cover up, and evidence against the theory just proves how right the theory is, like how some people think the earth is flat and when instruments prove its round they use that as evidence the instrument manufacturers are in on it too. These people cannot be convinced their crazy theories are wrong because they entire premise as humans is believing something is out to get them and they can see the truth.
 

Cheetodust

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To be fair, the majority of Americans didn't want Trump to be president in the 2016.
That's the craziest thing about this. He took a very similar amount of the popular vote this time. So two possible contributing factors.

He didn't win a huge proportion of new supporters. I mean of course he didn't. If you didn't like him to begin with what the fuck do his supporters think he did to win people over? Like they think fraud is the only possible explanation for him not gaining more voters? Not his entire personality and track record as human garbage?

Secondly, fewer people voted third party because they swallowed their pride and voted for who they considered the lesser of two evils.

So basically, trump did not get more popular over the last 4 years...
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
You haven't been watching the hearings, both the unofficial and the official ones. All of them are shown. Every witness trotted out has an affidavit to go along with their testimony. And these are events that last 7 or 8 hours each. There have been three of them so far. So yes, they have very much been shown.
And yet the court cases seem to be being dismissed or abandoned by the trump team, so those affidavits are bullshit and don't mean anything. Anyone can make an affidavit but they aren't holding up in court so they aren't worth the paper they are printed on.
 

Agema

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Who has time to watch 45 minutes of delusional gramps rambling and sniffing?
Let me try to summarise for you:
  • Oh god. He went straight for the dumb-as-rocks "supposed to be election day not election week" gambit in the first minute. That is a bad start.
  • "This is not just about honouring the votes of 74 million Americans who voted for me, it's about ensuring that Americans can have faith in this election..." The 80 million Americans who voted for Biden, implicitly, aren't worth anything.
  • Blah blah blah, the corrupt mail in ballot system Democrats managed to install in key swing states: I've got to say, if the Democrats were able create the mail in ballot system in states they don't run, then all credit to them: they are amazing political operators.
  • ...
No, fuck it, you're absolutely right and I've given up. It's more effort than it's worth to listen to that over-entitled, bloviating windbag spout crap for more than a few minutes.
 

Silvanus

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The presence of one should be troubling on its face. If the election is supposed to be so IMPORTANT that you can't disenfranchise ANYBODY, why should you have mystery USBs being taken in and out of the building at all?
Mystery to you, because you don't know what's on it and have imaged all sorts of nefarious things. Just as a notepad might look like a "mystery notepad???" to someone who assumes it's full of super-secret evil secrets.

You think that would fly in any other secure environment? Or are USBs less dangerous than a scrap of paper?
Yes. If it's a USB that's been checked or vetted by the appropriate people before being connected. USB drives are a common tool in pretty much any environment that handles data, sensitive or not. If there's nothing else on the drive, then it's essentially just a repository; you may as well be complaining about the presence of a pen-and-paper.

You don't actually have the faintest idea of data handling, and the sole reason you're trying to make this seem like an issue is because you want quite desperately to defend your favoured candidate.
 
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Houseman

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Mystery to you. The people have actually run the show will be able to vet anything that connects to an internal system or network before it does.
Yeah, the poll workers stop the technician at the door, have him go through a metal detector, and if he's carrying any usb drives, they plug them in on their own, disposable, air-gapped machines and verify that the contents don't contain anything malicious, then they allow him through. You honestly think that's the level of security we have at our counting locations?

If it's a USB that's been checked or vetted by the appropriate people before being connected
HAHAAHAHAH I guarantee you that nobody is doing any checking or vetting of any usb drives.
 

Houseman

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Michigan house oversight committee ft. Rudy Giuliani, (another real hearing, thumbnail not related), starts when this post is 3 minutes old
 

Silvanus

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Yeah, the poll workers stop the technician at the door, have him go through a metal detector, and if he's carrying any usb drives, they plug them in on their own, disposable, air-gapped machines and verify that the contents don't contain anything malicious, then they allow him through. You honestly think that's the level of security we have at our counting locations?
It's questions like this that make it so painfully obvious you have no idea how professional data security works.

To spell it out: the technician is a trained professional. They'll be given USB drives to use (or perhaps one will be vetted) before they begin working, to use for basic data-transfer. In addition, in all likelihood the machines will have software on them to prevent scripts from running without administrator credentials, meaning that an external drive can only be used for transfer or read-only.

HAHAAHAHAH I guarantee you that nobody is doing any checking or vetting of any usb drives.
Right, so we're just back to you making speculative assumptions, then. Nothing demonstrable actually being shown in the supposedly-damning videos.

If the Trump campaign is alleging that processes were broken or votes manipulated, present solid proof, and I don't mean circumstantial affidavits from Trump campaign poll-watchers. Anything else is just so much wind.
 

Houseman

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They'll be given USB drives to use (or perhaps one will be vetted) before they begin working, to use for basic data-transfer.
Can you prove that? Or is that just how you think it SHOULD work?

If the Trump campaign is alleging that processes were broken or votes manipulated
For the latter, AZ did an audit of 100 ballots, and found 2 erroneous. One Trump vote was dropped, and another was flipped from Trump to Biden. That's a small sample size, but.. wait hold on

---

That Michigan house oversight committee just had a total meltdown MINUTES in.

One guy had a point of order to swear Rudy in, and the chair went berserk on the gavel shouting over him, telling him that he was out of order. They had a little fight, they went at ease, then they put it to a vote. 5 nays, 3 yeas, so Rudy didn't have to be sworn in. He was there as an attorney, not a witness. They also said it was unprecedented for them to swear anybody in in Michigan. It was funny.

---

But that small sample size, if extrapolated, would be significant. That's solid proof, but it's also such a small sample size. That's their fault for ordering only 100.

But your question is disingenuous. How exactly do you expect people to gather evidence? People, individuals, civilians. They don't have any authority to do forensic audits. They aren't going to be breaking into places, stealing votes, and leaking them to the media. Is that what you want? Because that's the standard of evidence that you seem to want.

So unless you want people committing felonies in order to get proof, affidavits from poll workers, observers, challengers, etc. is what you're going to get. If people say, under oath, that they say duplicate ballots with matching signatures that look like they were never folded, that's what you're going to get. Now that should set off alarm bells. If you have dozens of people from ONE location testifying that processes were being broken, that should set off alarm bells. Even if it turns out not to be true, you should at least want to investigate.
 

dreng3

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Twitter should just shut down his account after the transition.
Pretty sure I saw an official statement that they would. And good on twitter for that, Trump has been violating the terms of service pretty constantly for the last four years.
I get that he is the president and that you can't block people from getting his messages, even if you'd only do so by preventing him from sending messages, but the account he uses is a personal one, not the official president account (There is one). Ban the private account and have him use the official one if he wants special treatment. That way there can't even be questions of fairness.
 

Trunkage

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Can you prove that? Or is that just how you think it SHOULD work?



For the latter, AZ did an audit of 100 ballots, and found 2 erroneous. One Trump vote was dropped, and another was flipped from Trump to Biden. That's a small sample size, but.. wait hold on

---

That Michigan house oversight committee just had a total meltdown MINUTES in.

One guy had a point of order to swear Rudy in, and the chair went berserk on the gavel shouting over him, telling him that he was out of order. They had a little fight, they went at ease, then they put it to a vote. 5 nays, 3 yeas, so Rudy didn't have to be sworn in. He was there as an attorney, not a witness. They also said it was unprecedented for them to swear anybody in in Michigan. It was funny.

---

But that small sample size, if extrapolated, would be significant. That's solid proof, but it's also such a small sample size. That's their fault for ordering only 100.

But your question is disingenuous. How exactly do you expect people to gather evidence? People, individuals, civilians. They don't have any authority to do forensic audits. They aren't going to be breaking into places, stealing votes, and leaking them to the media. Is that what you want? Because that's the standard of evidence that you seem to want.

So unless you want people committing felonies in order to get proof, affidavits from poll workers, observers, challengers, etc. is what you're going to get. If people say, under oath, that they say duplicate ballots with matching signatures that look like they were never folded, that's what you're going to get. Now that should set off alarm bells. If you have dozens of people from ONE location testifying that processes were being broken, that should set off alarm bells. Even if it turns out not to be true, you should at least want to investigate.
Why did they pick those 100 votes in particular?
 

Silvanus

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Can you prove that? Or is that just how you think it SHOULD work?
It's common procedure for data handling for USB drives to be given by an organisation before use, and for them to then routinely be used to transfer between devices. All I'm doing is pointing out that what you saw on that video of the guy with the USB is easily explicable by purely procedural, above-board processes.

If you believe malfeasance occurred, that's your claim, you need to provide evidence. And that video doesn't provide evidence of that.

But your question is disingenuous. How exactly do you expect people to gather evidence? People, individuals, civilians. They don't have any authority to do forensic audits. They aren't going to be breaking into places, stealing votes, and leaking them to the media. Is that what you want? Because that's the standard of evidence that you seem to want.

So unless you want people committing felonies in order to get proof, affidavits from poll workers, observers, challengers, etc. is what you're going to get. If people say, under oath, that they say duplicate ballots with matching signatures that look like they were never folded, that's what you're going to get. Now that should set off alarm bells. If you have dozens of people from ONE location testifying that processes were being broken, that should set off alarm bells. Even if it turns out not to be true, you should at least want to investigate.
I would expect people to provide evidence in the form of: evidence of tampering of polling machines; huge discrepancy between audit and automated count (after the audit in GA, the accuracy of the automated count was reaffirmed); paper trail (for a country-wide, enormous conspiracy, involving countless state legislatures, govenors and companies, then there would be something written down ordering it that could be presented); or at the very least, testimony from somebody actually involved or knowledgeable of the process. For that last, I mean not someone clearly partisan ranting on a podium about Dem poll-watchers being mean, and giving vague or circumstantial claims. I mean somebody who was involved in the setup of the system and can give a specific, mechanic claim which can be investigated.
 

Houseman

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Why did they pick those 100 votes in particular?
I think it was just a random sampling.

It's common procedure
Oh, so this is just how it SHOULD work, not necessarily how it ACTUALLY DID work.

evidence of tampering of polling machines;
Too bad no courts has ordered the machines to be seized, and an audit done, so such evidence can be gathered.

huge discrepancy between audit and automated count (after the audit in GA, the accuracy of the automated count was reaffirmed)
That wasn't an audit that was a recount, and such recounts can't detect people voting twice, dead people voting, whether a ballot was printed or not, whether or not the signatures don't match, etc. It was just a hand count of the totals vs what the machine says.


paper trail (for a country-wide, enormous conspiracy, involving countless state legislatures, govenors and companies, then there would be something written down ordering it that could be presented);
Who's calling it a conspiracy?

testimony from somebody actually involved or knowledgeable of the process.
A worker for the city is testifying right now. Her title is Head Engineer. She worked in the TCF center. She testifies that procedures weren't being followed, she was told to ignore her training, etc. Backdating ballots, being told not to spoil ballots, etc. She's the first witness. Watch
 

Houseman

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Another lawsuit against the entire Wisconsin Electors Commission


Trump vs.
The Wisconsin Elections Commission, and its members, Ann S. Jacobs, Mark L. Thomsen, Marge Bostelman, Dean Knudson, Robert F. Spindell, Jr., in their official capacities, Scott McDonnell in his official capacity as the Dane County Clerk, George L. Christenson in his official capacity as the Milwaukee County Clerk, Julietta Henry in her official capacity as the Milwaukee Election Director, Claire WoodallVogg in her official capacity as the Executive Director of the Milwaukee Election Commission, Mayor Tom Barrett, Jim Owczarski, Mayor Satya Rhodes-Conway, Maribeth Witzel-Behl, Mayor Cory Mason, Tara Coolidge, Mayor John Antaramian, Matt Krauter, Mayor Eric Genrich, Kris Teske, in their official Capacities; Douglas J. La Follette, Wisconsin Secretary of State, in his official capacity, and Tony Evers, Governor of Wisconsin, in his Official capacity.
heh
 
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