Ender's Game Author Asks For Tolerance After Boycott Threat

[Sheo_Dagana]

For a man who opposes gay rights, there sure is a lot of homo eroticism in his books. Don't get my wrong, I really enjoyed Ender's Game and it's related spin-offs... but I certainly didn't pay him money for it. I got it used from a second-hand book store.

If he truly intends to back off and never again donate money to anti-gay rights organizations and movements, then sure, I won't be joining the group of people in my town that plan to boycott the movie. He may be a bigoted asshole, but I'm willing to tolerate him and his film (which, to be fair, has nothing to do with the issue) if he chooses to no longer stand in the way of progress and love.

Then again, that's what tolerance actually means. Hating something, but putting up with it. I will admit though, I have a hard time tolerating intolerance. Guess I'll use this as sort of a tolerance litmus test.

 

[Zeldias]

"Bigotry, bigotry, bigotry!"

"Hey guys, be nice and buy my stuff! Come on now! Let's all be tolerant!"

What an asshole.

Face the music, Captcha? Damn right.

 

[frizzlebyte]

The sociopolitical views of the author have no bearing on the quality of his work unless the work is centered on those views.

Ender's Game is decidedly NOT about gay marriage and is held as a classic work of science fiction, rightfully heavy with praise.

You are not promoting or supporting bigotry by seeing this movie or reading this book. You are promoting damn good storytelling and science fiction.

Besides, for all we know Card already got his check when he sold the rights to the studio/producers making the film. The rest may be going entirely towards recovering the budget and lining the pockets of those who made it.

For once I wish people could separate the views of a dickish author from the books and, worse still, it appears on a case by case basis. J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout Catholic and therefore opposed to homosexuality. You don't see people boycotting Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit to keep money from going to his family. What makes Card so different and special?

I agree with you on this. I'm reading Ender's Game for the first time right now (actually have the book in my hand; checking email and the Escapist is an addiction), and it is just freakin' fantastic.

I knew about Card's views before reading it, and while I feel less appreciative of the man himself, I think his fiction deserves the high praise it receives.

I think the reason that the hate seems to be on a case by case basis, is that Card is particularly vocal and extreme in his views. I don't remember Tolkien's anti-gay views being particularly expounded on in any of his writings. Card has done so multiple times, and publicly.

 

[frizzlebyte]

For a man who opposes gay rights, there sure is a lot of homo eroticism in his books.

That is true, though what I've seen of it seems to be written in a way that makes the reader uncomfortable. I've never found it to be "erotic" in any sense, but that may be because I'm straight, I don't know.

 

[Pickapok]

That's right Pickapok is a being made out of lots of polygons! He has so much more emotions than you do toaster! A short joke to bring some levity to this discussion.

If Ender's Game does well and we don't get that movie. What then? You will have supported a person who most likely after the success of his movie will revert right back to his earlier ways in the vain hope of catching a carrot.

Why not just support Pacific Rim? Why bother also supporting Enders Game? If everyone who boycotts Enders Game goes out to see Pacific Rim instead you'd have the same effect. Doing something that gives money to a person who has the potential and the history of wanting to harm and oppress others is never justifiable just because there is a dangling carrot in the distance.

Why don't we just let Hollywood die and see what rises from the ashes? Maybe a less racist, misogynistic, stupid industry will take it's place.

I have all the polygons.

Pacific Rim and Ender's Game won't be in theatres at the same time. Aside from that, the same goes for the flip side of the coin. What if the boycott doesn't catch on and Ender's Game still makes a ton of money? What then? You may not have added your support to the film but in the end it didn't make that much of a difference at all. "But at least he didn't get any of MY money," you might say. "But at least I tried!"

And that would be my response to the possible outcome you presented. "At least I tried."

Your failure state:

At least you tried, you supported someone who campaigns for things you despise in the hope you would get a different movie. You didn't even really want to see Enders Game (just adding to the disappointment here) but it was all in the hope for that other movie that never appeared. A new anti-gay campaign is funded using the money that Card got for this movie. Your money is partially used to fund that campaign and a trip to the hooters bar.

My failure state:

At least you tried, you did not support someone who campaigns for things you despise. Sadly not enough people thought like you and the movie was still a financial success. You are now getting to see At the Mountains of Madness from an author who did not hold any such hateful views and/or is no longer alive to campaign in favour of them. A new anti-gay campaign is funded using the money that Card got for this movie. None of yours went towards it.

I like my failure state allot better. However let's look at the success states.

Yours:

You went to see Enders game, it was a great movie and instilled trust in weird sci-fi concepts. The film was a box office block buster hit and Card got rich of the movie. He immediately does a heal turn and funds more anti-gay campaigns. Continuing like he has done for decades now. Everything is alright though because now that movie you really wanted is being made.

Mine:

You didn't go to see Enders game, so did millions of others who would have gone to see it. The film tanked harder than the Lone Ranger and John Carter combined. Instead everyone went to see Pacific Rim, supporting Guillermo directly without having to lower themselves because of the shiny carrot dangling in-front of themselves. The studios green-light his next movie. Card is forced to reconcile himself with a changing environment, becoming either less vocal or a recluse who surrounds himself with people who think the same as he does in the LDS church. Of course anti-gay campaigns will still be run, but there is at least one less to be worried about.

It's funny how both my failure and success states end up benefiting more people with less suffering overall than yours

EMOTIONS!

But I do really want to see Ender's Game. I'm just stating some of the possible ramifications. And none of us have ANY idea how much Card is getting from this. It's a safe bet that he's already been paid the royalties and that's that. Your points are so hilariously one sided and balanced that they come off as mad.

 

[Lieju]

I think boycotting, death threats, slander, hate-mongering and propaganda are counter productive and don't have a place in a civilised society. We have discourse, discussion, debate and the ballot box.

I agree with you on death-threats, slander, hate-mongering and propaganda, but boycott?

Boycotting is going 'I don't want to give you my money, and will tell other people not to give you money'.

That's what many critics do. "This is a bad movie, don't go see it."

How uncivilized.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

The issue I have is that everyone is entitled to their opinion, freedom of speech is freedom of speech. It doesn't go one way in the tolerance aspect. If you wish to be tolerated for your views, you must also tolerate views you don't agree with. Like him or not, boycotting him for disagreeing whether bigoted or just plain "I don't care for it" isn't being tolerant. Treat others as you want to be treated is a good standard to live by. Boycotting works by a man who doesn't agree with something thats a hot-button issue doesn't solve the problem, and it is detrimental to the cause they're trying to support. You may not like what he has to say, but he damn sure has the right to say it, just like you have the right to be contrary to the "accepted norm".
Catching more flies with honey and all.
Martin Luther King had it right. He didn't go all aggro on people who hated on him, he took the higher road and accepted that there would always be people who didn't see or agree with his point of view.
In my humble opinion, tolerating assholes and not lowering yourself to arguing and hating on them for having a contrary point of view doesn't solve anything and only causes more strife and drama.
We'll never get over racism, sexism, homophobia and the like because there will always be people who just can't take it. I feel Mr. Card is conceding defeat on this issue and asking people to just let it go, which is classy even if he is a homophobe. He has said inflammatory things, but I've also heard people on the gay rights side of the fence say equally incendiary things against "breeders". There are bigots on both sides, and until we learn as a species to take to heart the free speech ideal that everyone is entitled to their opinion, the hate and debate will perpetuate.
The best way, in my view is to accept that there will be detractors to your viewpoint, there will be haters (haters gonna hate) and lashing out at them isn't going to make it better. Taking the stance of "I respect your right to have an opinion but I don't agree" is the only way we can move on from these childish tantrums. I understand that people on the LGBT side feel oppressed when someone speaks out against their lifestyle, but if they want to be accepted they in turn have to accept that not everyone will feel comfortable with it. When it goes beyond the opinion into the realm of straight up oppression, then there is a problem. But it must be handled with grace and civility.
Personally I believe what goes on behind closed doors is nobody's business but the people involved. I may not always agree with it, but I accept it is a "thing" and move on with life. I may from time to time say how I feel about it, and I have that right to express my feelings. But I also feel I must do so in a way that doesn't trash those I don't agree with. I expect the same respect from the people I don't agree with.
"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Paraphrased from Voltaire.

 

[WindKnight]

Unless a person incorporates their particular brand of prejudice into their works, I separate the creator from the creation. It seems like most people can't do that though.

He donates money to groups who campaign for, among other things, homosexuality being criminalized. When he wants people jailed for loving the 'wrong' person, and uses his money to help push that view forward, its a bit harder to want to give him my money.

 

[Woodsey]

Ah, the old "You're a bigot if you condemn bigots" switch-aroo.

Dude's got some balls.

 

[Tono Makt]

Please don't insult me or my emotional capacity. I am very capable of feeling just as pissed off as everybody else and by all means, be pissed off at Card as much as you want. But by boycotting this film people are doing more damage to the state of Hollywood as a whole than they are to Card himself. Hollywood needs good stories and good storytelling. You always hear that consumers vote with their wallets and that is very much true. Right now the message that Hollywood is getting is that the people want mindless explosions and action in the style of Michael Bay and that's killing creativity in film. It's part of the reason why so many of the great directors and actors have fled to make amazing television series like Hannibal and Game of Thrones.

Forget about Card. If we help Ender's Game become a success, who knows what we could see next? If both this film and Pcific Rim do well then we could finally see that At the Mountains of Madness film Guillermo Del Toro has been wanting to make for ages now.

If we see Ender's Game become a success, we're going to see a glut of OSC movies. We're probably going to see some sort of new sequel to Ender's Game which isn't Speaker for the Dead but something entirely new - written by OSC.

Ya think he'll do it for free?

Even if they do make SFtD, do you think OSC will give the movie rights away for free?

And if the movie is a success, how many thousands of print copies of Ender's Game (both the original and one based on the upcoming movie, which isn't going to be the same as the book from all accounts I've read) will be sold - and do you think none of that will go back to OSC?

You might be perfectly willing to help finance homophobia and intolerance because you're doing it indirectly, but there's a large number of people who aren't willing to perform that kind of double-think.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Haha you know I realized nobody has pointed this out, at least not on the first page. He's not even changing his tune about gay marriage. His quote is

"Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute"

He's asking for gay people to tolerate HIM. He's admitting defeat and then saying "no hard feelings guys?" It doesn't seem like he's changing his tune, rather he's hoping if he shuts up people wont care.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I'll see the movie if it's good and I won't see it if it's shit. His views are irrelevant in the decision.

That being said, he's still an asshole and should shut the fuck up. I do believe in free speech, but you're certainly required to take consequence for said speech. And in this case that consequence is me thinking you're an asshole.

 

[Bruce]

amaranth_dru

Martin Luther King had it right. He didn't go all aggro on people who hated on him, he took the higher road and accepted that there would always be people who didn't see or agree with his point of view.

Montgomery Bus Boycott?

 

[Lilani]

"Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute," Card concludes.

Sorry Orson, but I think there's a big difference between simply "disagreeing" on an issue and being a total and complete bigoted asshole to those you disagree with. And your past comments were definitely in the latter category.

I really liked Ender's Game, and a few of the sequel books (although I think the quality was on a slow decline for that series.)

Still, I didn't see any anti-gay stuff in his books. So whatever.

Although... I didn't really see what he actually said or did. Can someone show me what he did?

His Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orson_scott_card#Homosexuality] page has a pretty good summary of it. Here are a couple of highlights:

"How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn."

"The dark secret of homosexual society?the one that dares not speak its name?is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally."

And those were from 2008 and 2004, respectively. So yeah, basically in the past he has said gay marriage will mean the destruction of America and marriage as a whole, and claimed that gay people are either molesters or victims of molestation. The sort of stuff you expect to hear from fundamental churches in the South. And now he's trying to play the "Don't hold my past comments against me!" card without apologizing or so much as hinting that maybe what he said was a bit hateful and severely misinformed.

 

[tardcore]

Well while I don't share Mr. Cards harsh views on gay marriage and gayness in general, I fully support his right to hold and discuss said views. However, I also fully support the right for any individuals annoyed by his views to tell Mr. Card to go fuck himself and refuse to support his creations as a form of protest. Asking for people to judge his art as its own entity and ignore the man behind it seems very much like he wants to have his cake and eat it too.

Welcome Mr. Card to the really real world where actions have consequences.

 

[1337mokro]

Snipped the rest because LONG!

But I do really want to see Ender's Game. I'm just stating some of the possible ramifications. And none of us have ANY idea how much Card is getting from this. It's a safe bet that he's already been paid the royalties and that's that. Your points are so hilariously one sided and balanced that they come off as mad.

Royalties don't work like that.

He already received an initial licensing fee. Royalties are the amount he gets per sold ticket. In other words he gets a percentage of the money the movie makes. The better the movie does the more he eventually gets out of it. All of that money he gets will potentially be used for campaigns and funding of an organization against gay rights or the church he goes to, which itself is anti-gay and anti-allot of other things.

My points are no stranger than your justification for seeing a completely unrelated movie somehow resulting in a possible financial interest and backing of a Del Toro movie that has nothing to do with Enders Game. Which is then okay because we will get one good movie and all we had to do was give money to one guy whose ideology is despicable. I am not into the whole sell my integrity for a possible reward later on.

 

[Honoured]

I read though most of these comments, and i demand the last 20 minutes of my life back!

Also, i fully intend to see the movie, no matter if people boycott it or not.