Ender's Game Author Asks For Tolerance After Boycott Threat

[rob_simple]

Hm, I wonder if he'd be preaching this same tolerance if the gay marriage bill hadn't gone through.

If you're openly against people whose actions/way of life have precisely zero effect on you --and no, a warping of your perspective on the sanctity of marriage does not count as affecting you-- then you have no one but yourself to blame when people tell you to fuck off back to the dark ages where you belong.

 

[K12]

I'm very pro-gay rights but I don't think these kinds of boycotts are the right way to go about promoting the issue so I probably wouldn't have boycotted the film (though I wouldn't have argued with anyone who did, its a personal decision).

After reading Orson Scott Card's weaselly response I definitely will be boycotting it. You have no idea what tolerance is and fuck you for trying to use it as a tool to protect your potential profits.

I think that on a personal level I object to the smug self-righteousness more than the actual homophobia.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Ah, the old "You're a bigot if you condemn bigots" switch-aroo.

Dude's got some balls.

no he doesn't. if he had a pair he wouldn't be trying to play nice now just to sell tickets to a movie that's probably gonna another generic action movie. cause, ya know, Hollywood.

anyway, wasn't gonna see this before, less desire to see it when I found out his views and this just makes me laugh at the coward. so yeah, i'll be waiting to here how is movie flops, bonus points if it sucks to.

and if that makes me a 'bigot for condemning bigots' so be it, least I'm on the side trying to fix the problem rather then perpetuate it.

 

[theApoc]

People weren't opposed to gay marriage until gay people started trying to get married. There was a rush in the 70's across the US to enact and reword anti-gay marriage laws specifically because the wording of the laws on the books at the time was not specific enough to exclude gay people from getting married.

We didn't start this fight, but we aim to finish it. If you think "gay rights advocates" are bullies then you are woefully ignorant of the severity of bullying we've had to endure just to get to this point. When anti-gay marriage advocates start getting beaten and/or killed and we send THEIR children to re-education camps (similar to current pray-the-gay-away camps), then you can start complaining about how intolerant we've become. I am sure we both hope it never comes to that point.

Hell even as a homosexual I don't really care about gay marriage. If heterosexuals hate us so much why should I want to emulate them, but I do resent being told specifically that I cant, that I hold some lessor status in society, because some words in a magic book say that what I do in the privacy of my bedroom with a consenting adult is wrong.

You should choose your words wisely when debating on the internet. As a true minority(and yes I mean that as it sounds), I am painfully aware of what discrimination is and the effect it has on a group of people and your assumption of prejudice/ignorance belies your own intolerance.

SOCIETY determines what it accepts. The far left/right extremists may have the loudest voices but they do NOT represent society as a whole, and your generalization of both sides of this debate is extremely misguided. You know what I resent? Being told how to think. I have no problem following rules I don't agree with, but don't tell me I have to think the way you do in order for us to have a discussion. That IS bullying and it is no better coming from you than it is from some religious nut bag.

Intolerance and hypocrisy are not exclusive to left or right, straight or gay. But YOU don't get to decide how a community should govern itself. Don't like a town where they are intolerant, don't move there. Don't like a company that doesn't agree with your lifestyle, don't buy their stuff. But don't presume to be so high and mighty that you get to dictate what people should or shouldn't believe.

Everyone has a right to think or say what they like. And IMO, as long as they are willing to accept the consequences, it is not for your or I to tell them otherwise.

Vote, rally, change the laws for protection and LEGAL equality. But don't assume your beliefs are any more valid that theirs, they are not, they should belong to you and you alone, just like everyone else.

 

[Woodsey]

Ah, the old "You're a bigot if you condemn bigots" switch-aroo.

Dude's got some balls.

no he doesn't. if he had a pair he wouldn't be trying to play nice now just to sell tickets to a movie that's probably gonna another generic action movie. cause, ya know, Hollywood.

anyway, wasn't gonna see this before, less desire to see it when I found out his views and this just makes me laugh at the coward. so yeah, i'll be waiting to here how is movie flops, bonus points if it sucks to.

and if that makes me a 'bigot for condemning bigots' so be it, least I'm on the side trying to fix the problem rather then perpetuate it.

I have a feeling a WHOOOOSH just happened.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Ah, the old "You're a bigot if you condemn bigots" switch-aroo.

Dude's got some balls.

no he doesn't. if he had a pair he wouldn't be trying to play nice now just to sell tickets to a movie that's probably gonna another generic action movie. cause, ya know, Hollywood.

anyway, wasn't gonna see this before, less desire to see it when I found out his views and this just makes me laugh at the coward. so yeah, i'll be waiting to here how is movie flops, bonus points if it sucks to.

and if that makes me a 'bigot for condemning bigots' so be it, least I'm on the side trying to fix the problem rather then perpetuate it.

I have a feeling a WHOOOOSH just happened.

probably?

that's been know to happen with me.

 

[Woodsey]

Ah, the old "You're a bigot if you condemn bigots" switch-aroo.

Dude's got some balls.

no he doesn't. if he had a pair he wouldn't be trying to play nice now just to sell tickets to a movie that's probably gonna another generic action movie. cause, ya know, Hollywood.

anyway, wasn't gonna see this before, less desire to see it when I found out his views and this just makes me laugh at the coward. so yeah, i'll be waiting to here how is movie flops, bonus points if it sucks to.

and if that makes me a 'bigot for condemning bigots' so be it, least I'm on the side trying to fix the problem rather then perpetuate it.

I have a feeling a WHOOOOSH just happened.

probably?

that's been know to happen with me.

Your first paragraph was implicit in my comment and your third paragraph took seriously an attitude I was already being flippant about.

 

[K12]

People weren't opposed to gay marriage until gay people started trying to get married. There was a rush in the 70's across the US to enact and reword anti-gay marriage laws specifically because the wording of the laws on the books at the time was not specific enough to exclude gay people from getting married.

We didn't start this fight, but we aim to finish it. If you think "gay rights advocates" are bullies then you are woefully ignorant of the severity of bullying we've had to endure just to get to this point. When anti-gay marriage advocates start getting beaten and/or killed and we send THEIR children to re-education camps (similar to current pray-the-gay-away camps), then you can start complaining about how intolerant we've become. I am sure we both hope it never comes to that point.

Hell even as a homosexual I don't really care about gay marriage. If heterosexuals hate us so much why should I want to emulate them, but I do resent being told specifically that I cant, that I hold some lessor status in society, because some words in a magic book say that what I do in the privacy of my bedroom with a consenting adult is wrong.

You should choose your words wisely when debating on the internet. As a true minority(and yes I mean that as it sounds), I am painfully aware of what discrimination is and the effect it has on a group of people and your assumption of prejudice/ignorance belies your own intolerance.

SOCIETY determines what it accepts. The far left/right extremists may have the loudest voices but they do NOT represent society as a whole, and your generalization of both sides of this debate is extremely misguided. You know what I resent? Being told how to think. I have no problem following rules I don't agree with, but don't tell me I have to think the way you do in order for us to have a discussion. That IS bullying and it is no better coming from you than it is from some religious nut bag.

Intolerance and hypocrisy are not exclusive to left or right, straight or gay. But YOU don't get to decide how a community should govern itself. Don't like a town where they are intolerant, don't move there. Don't like a company that doesn't agree with your lifestyle, don't buy their stuff. But don't presume to be so high and mighty that you get to dictate what people should or shouldn't believe.

Everyone has a right to think or say what they like. And IMO, as long as they are willing to accept the consequences, it is not for your or I to tell them otherwise.

Vote, rally, change the laws for protection and LEGAL equality. But don't assume your beliefs are any more valid that theirs, they are not, they should belong to you and you alone, just like everyone else.

At what point does the legalisation of gay marriage tell people what to believe?

I will argue with a homophobe that their views are immoral until the cows come home (or more likely they get bored) but I would never order them to change their beliefs and nothing that gay-marriage proponents are proposing would do that either.

The only thing that is being proposed is that a restriction is removed, allowing people who are gay to marry the people they love and having no effect on anyone else.

If you are beating me with a stick and I (or someone else) tells you to stop then I'm not being intolerant.

What does "true minority" mean that wouldn't include gay and lesbian people, a group who have a minority population and power base and often suffer discrimination and lack of opportunities because they belong to that category. They more than qualify.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Ah, the old "You're a bigot if you condemn bigots" switch-aroo.

Dude's got some balls.

no he doesn't. if he had a pair he wouldn't be trying to play nice now just to sell tickets to a movie that's probably gonna another generic action movie. cause, ya know, Hollywood.

anyway, wasn't gonna see this before, less desire to see it when I found out his views and this just makes me laugh at the coward. so yeah, i'll be waiting to here how is movie flops, bonus points if it sucks to.

and if that makes me a 'bigot for condemning bigots' so be it, least I'm on the side trying to fix the problem rather then perpetuate it.

I have a feeling a WHOOOOSH just happened.

probably?

that's been know to happen with me.

Your first paragraph was implicit in my comment and your third paragraph took seriously an attitude I was already being flippant about.

not sure its a 'whoosh' since only the first bit was aimed at you. the rest was my 2 cents on the topic at hand in my standard 'subtle as the Forge of Solus Prime to the head' kinda way (look it up, you'll get it)

 

[kreekgod]

personally I'm planning to go and see the movie, this decision has nothing to do with Card

I don't care about who gets the money from the movie, i don't care about what they believe or care about,
all "I" care about in a movie is weather I like the movie or not (this remains to be seen however i enjoyed the book so *shrug*)


for the record, personally, I support gay marriage, strait marriage, marriage between people and animals or space aliens or shoes and rocks, whatever, if you feel like you want to spend the rest of your life with someone/something, regardless of gender, race, species or physical makeup, you are welcome too it, aslong as its all consensual between all parties involved

i also support the right for everyone else to have their own opinions

so no, i will not "tolerate" his bigot-ness, but i will accept it and wont hold it against him

 

[SirPlindington]

Breaking News: Orson Scott Card is a tool!

I enjoyed Ender's Game but he's no Wagner. His work isn't so good that I can justifiably ignore what an ass he is.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

There was a boycott planned?
Oh c'mon people. There's a word for you which I can't remember right now, and it's not a compliment. Why would you care about what he said? There's simply no point.

Cause it's hateful and stupid and I don't think it should be supported?

I actually agree with you, art is art! it does not matter what the person does if you enjoy there art enjoy it, all you do by not watching it is to deny yourself, does it really matter if a hate monger gets a bit more money? will it change anything? but for you on a personal level if you miss a great book or movie that changes you! Just imagine if Beethoven was treated the same way for what he did! But no people cared about his music not the man. At the time enjoy the art, let history ruin him.

Ok, tell that to gay people who were denied rights by his organization. Are you just going to say "it's ok, the history books will say bad things about him." ?

Like him or not, boycotting him for disagreeing whether bigoted or just plain "I don't care for it" isn't being tolerant. Treat others as you want to be treated is a good standard to live by. Boycotting works by a man who doesn't agree with something thats a hot-button issue doesn't solve the problem, and it is detrimental to the cause they're trying to support. You may not like what he has to say, but he damn sure has the right to say it, just like you have the right to be contrary to the "accepted norm".

Martin Luther King had it right. He didn't go all aggro on people who hated on him, he took the higher road and accepted that there would always be people who didn't see or agree with his point of view.

Yeah...MLK helped organize a boycott of his own, the Montgomery Bus Boycott.
Boycotting is NOT going against freedom of speech, it's an expression.

It would be intolerant if people demanded that the movie not be shown, it would be intolerant if people threatened the actors, how is it intolerant to say "I don't think you should see this movie?"

snip

I just wanted to thank you. Your points are on the mark.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

It's funny how people like this shithead Card only define tolerance, democracy and freedom of speech as 'everything I want, and nothing else'.

I don't let a person's social beliefs dissuade me from taking an interest in their work-

I went through a phase a few months back where I was reading a lot of alternate history novels. I found a copy of Card's "Empire" at the used book store and bought it based on cover art and back cover blurb. The entire novel was about how Democrats were teaming up with terrorists to kill the president and blame it on the Republicans in order to start a new American Revolution. And the only credible news source in the entire novel was Fox News. And the only person that could stop it was a U.S. Army Major who didn't have a problem with the "dykes" so long as they minded their own business...

I'm not usually a proponent of burning books, but it combusted quite nicely.

Yeah on second thoughts I'll skip his books altogether.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

I am really wary about judging peoples political and ideological beliefs before buying things from them. Lots of people who I do business with agree with Universal Healthcare. I do not. Does this mean I have to stop enjoying their work? Yahtzee has said lots of things I disagree with, doesn't change the fact that I like his videos, and will watch and support him. I generally dislike feminism*, yet don't try and boycott those who agree with it. We need to recognize that all people are, well, people. Regardless of political views, or religion, or gender, or race, or, of course, sexual orientation. We should do our best to support our own views, and accept that other peoples views are, from your perspective flawed, but just like you they are trying the best they can to form a good system of ideology and ethics. There are lines, of course, and homophobia is certainly a bad thing, but I think we can forgive him his views on marriage.

 

[Tono Makt]

I am really wary about judging peoples political and ideological beliefs before buying things from them. Lots of people who I do business with agree with Universal Healthcare. I do not. Does this mean I have to stop enjoying their work? Yahtzee has said lots of things I disagree with, doesn't change the fact that I like his videos, and will watch and support him. I generally dislike feminism*, yet don't try and boycott those who agree with it.

If all those people do is say "I support Universal Healthcare", for example, then boycotting them is a bit of an overreaction. If those people are part of political actions to enforce universal healthcare onto you and the rest of the population... would you keep supporting their businesses?

If one of them wrote an editorial in a newspaper that said "Universal Healthcare is simply caring about everyone equally, and those who don't support Universal Healthcare are greedy, evil people who only care about themselves. They've got theirs, everyone else can screw off. This attitude is entirely UnAmerican and we must do everything in our power to force these people to comply." would you still support their business?

Or would you take your business somewhere else, and tell people why you're taking your business somewhere else?

We need to recognize that all people are, well, people. Regardless of political views, or religion, or gender, or race, or, of course, sexual orientation. We should do our best to support our own views, and accept that other peoples views are, from your perspective flawed, but just like you they are trying the best they can to form a good system of ideology and ethics. There are lines, of course, and homophobia is certainly a bad thing, but I think we can forgive him his views on marriage.

You can. A large number of people - myself included - draw that line somewhere else, and we aren't going to give our money to him anymore. We're also making sure that we advertise why we aren't giving him our money anymore and encouraging others to do so as well. And we certainly aren't going to forgive him his views on marriage in any way, shape or form.

Nor should we.

 

[Angus]

Intolerant bastards asking for tolerance. Oh the irony,.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Boycotting is going 'I don't want to give you my money, and will tell other people not to give you money'.

That's what many critics do. "This is a bad movie, don't go see it."

How uncivilized.

That's not boycotting, that's taking advice. I have no issue with forgoing a movie, book or whatever because it sucks. I've never bought one of thise man's books because they don't interest me. But boycotting because he disagrees with a political view is what I disagree with. I don't think politics belong in the fields of entertainment, literature, academia, sports, science or medicine.

 

[randomrob1968]

I don't have a problem with Card's privately held beliefs. I do have a problem with using money and influence in the media to push his beliefs on others out of a sense of righteousness, and anyone who thinks it's the government's JOB to 'regulate normalcy' is assbiscuit-crazy, IMO. I am NOT going to see 'Ender's Game'.