Ender's Game Trailer is Finally Here

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

well DC and epic have a right to their opinions, if they feel that working with a certain author will put across a message they do not want for company there well with in there rights not to work with them, it is goo that the DC artist refused to work with card, standing up for what you believe in usually a good thing and it what card does all the time, you seem to be okay with card having an opinion so why not the artist. as for epic game if they started to make the game and then backout sure thats in poor tasted but you can bash them for having there own opinions, i dont know any of the details but working with such a homophobic author could have caused argument in the company and you could be sure that it would effect the game sales.

right work boths way if card is alowed to be homophobic then people are alowed to not work with him, he does nit just dislike the gays he active works against them using using his money to fund movements which try to reduce there right, threatans the American government with violance if the gay are allowed to be marride and not to mention all the essay he has written about the evils of homosexuality.

what i find destructing is that people think its okay for card to try and oppress a group of people but not okay for people to call him wrong

You misunderstand me. I think every man has a right to his opinion though personally, I thoroughly disagree with Card. What I disagree as much or more however, is not working with someone like in this example because you disagree with them. It is fine to call him wrong, but the place to do it is in a debate or at the ballot on polling day, not in the creative room. What this says is that DC and Epic are also intolerant and don't respect people's rights to have their own views (whether they be right or wrong). Particularly interesting that it's in America which is all about freedom of speech, belief and all that stuff.

The only people bringing politics and beliefs into it in the above example, are DC and Epic, and as I said, those don't belong in comics or games.

 

[wolf thing]

well DC and epic have a right to their opinions, if they feel that working with a certain author will put across a message they do not want for company there well with in there rights not to work with them, it is goo that the DC artist refused to work with card, standing up for what you believe in usually a good thing and it what card does all the time, you seem to be okay with card having an opinion so why not the artist. as for epic game if they started to make the game and then backout sure thats in poor tasted but you can bash them for having there own opinions, i dont know any of the details but working with such a homophobic author could have caused argument in the company and you could be sure that it would effect the game sales.

right work boths way if card is alowed to be homophobic then people are alowed to not work with him, he does nit just dislike the gays he active works against them using using his money to fund movements which try to reduce there right, threatans the American government with violance if the gay are allowed to be marride and not to mention all the essay he has written about the evils of homosexuality.

what i find destructing is that people think its okay for card to try and oppress a group of people but not okay for people to call him wrong

You misunderstand me. I think every man has a right to his opinion though personally, I thoroughly disagree with Card. What I disagree as much or more however, is not working with someone like in this example because you disagree with them. It is fine to call him wrong, but the place to do it is in a debate or at the ballot on polling day, not in the creative room. What this says is that DC and Epic are also intolerant and don't respect people's rights to have their own views (whether they be right or wrong). Particularly interesting that it's in America which is all about freedom of speech, belief and all that stuff.

The only people bringing politics and beliefs into it in the above example, are DC and Epic, and as I said, those don't belong in comics or games.

i see your point but i dont like the idea of people who disagree having to put up with each other when it comes to creative products, it would be different in an office or such, when someone has to be creative i think it could just get in the way. i could see your point more with epic which is a company so acting in none political biass way would be fine, but with the artist i think its good that he got out if he thought it would effect both their works.

 

[Flatfrog]

You know what though? I think this is thoroughly disgusting....on the part of the DC artist and Epic Games. I don't agree with Card's opinion, but he damn well has the right to it. As soon as DC and Epic cancelled those things, they brought politics into places where it doesn't belong and disrespected a man's right to his opinion.

So it's okay to watch Mel Gibson films when he's one of the vilest racists and anti-semites in Hollywood? It's okay to buy Tommy Hilfiger clothes when he said on TV "I would never have made them if I knew blacks or asians would wear them"?

No, it's not okay. I pretty much stopped being able to watch Mel Gibson in anything after he revealed his true self. I just find him distasteful and can't bring myself to give him any of my money. And I feel the same way about Card. And I'm not alone in this, so it's not unreasonable for a company to think twice about engaging him to work on something if they think it might have an impact on the bottom line. That's what boycotts are *for*. And they work.

So yes, of course Card is entitled to his opinions. And if he chooses to air those opinions, and if they offend people, and if those people choose to not buy his books or go to his movie, that's the consequence. And if those people who are putting up money to finance his projects choose not to do so because of the controversy, then that's a perfectly reasonable financial decision.

Personally I think it's rather wonderful that being homophobic has become offensive enough to threaten someone's career. About fucking time.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

Why is it that the only people allowed to have personal beliefs and unpopular opinions are the ones who support which ever side is the most popular?

Homosexuals reserve the right to believe they are entitled to marriage and whatever other rights they feel they are being slighted on.

Opponents of homosexuality are EQUALLY within their rights to disagree and to stand against homosexual marriage and culture.

Live and let live. No side is more "right" than the other. Just different perspectives, to which everyone is entitled. If Card doesn't agree with gay marriage he has that right and I fully support him acting on that belief and standing by it. Just as I can respect and support a gay person's efforts to be legally married.
To each his own I say.

So that said, if this movie is good, I'll support it and see it at full price. I for one won't be party to any McCarthy-istic persecutions and blacklisting.

 

[Plasmadamage]

I do believe that this movie is going to get the "Eragon" treatment. A complete rush job, bastardizing the book to fit it into 2 hours.

Gaaah! Why would you remind me of that, that... thing? I spent years trying to pretend the Eragon movie never happened!

 

[Flatfrog]

Why is it that the only people allowed to have personal beliefs and unpopular opinions are the ones who support which ever side is the most popular?

Homosexuals reserve the right to believe they are entitled to marriage and whatever other rights they feel they are being slighted on.

Opponents of homosexuality are EQUALLY within their rights to disagree and to stand against homosexual marriage and culture.

Live and let live. No side is more "right" than the other. Just different perspectives, to which everyone is entitled. If Card doesn't agree with gay marriage he has that right and I fully support him acting on that belief and standing by it. Just as I can respect and support a gay person's efforts to be legally married.
To each his own I say.

So that said, if this movie is good, I'll support it and see it at full price. I for one won't be party to any McCarthy-istic persecutions and blacklisting.

The problem with that 'Live and Let Live' approach is that it leads to the 'fair share' problem. This is the old joke about the two children arguing over how much cake they should have. Billy wants the whole thing, but Brenda thinks they should share it evenly. Eventually a grown-up intervenes and says they should compromise by giving Brenda 1/4 and Billy 3/4.

What is the right compromise between tolerance and intolerance? Between fair and unfair?

Anyway, in Card's case, this isn't just a matter of him being opposed to gay marriage or even to homosexuality. Have you read the things he's written? I'm all for people having a right to their own views, but if those views are hateful I don't see why I should feel bad about not wanting to support them by giving the guy my money.

Incidentally, I've already taken part in a discussion on this topic in a different forum. My reflex opinion was to be the same as you - we should separate the art from the artist, and someone's opinions shouldn't have an impact on their work. But then I realised who I was 'agreeing' with and I realised that by 'tolerating' Card's opinion, I was tacitly supporting it, and I couldn't let myself do that.

To quote from what I said at the time:
'This is one of those occasions when you can judge the worth of your arguments by those who agree with you. ... I'm mostly of the opinion that someone should be allowed to hold whatever opinions they like as long as they aren't encouraging hate in others, and that if he's able to steer clear of controversial topics in his run on the comic then he should be permitted to stay on it. I'd even go so far as to say that a storyline critical of gay marriage or even overtly homophobic shouldn't be censored (although it would be inappropriate to put it into as iconic and influential a forum as Superman) - people can choose to vote with their wallets and not buy it.

However, all that being said, the repulsive, hateful views I've seen on this thread that are ostensibly on 'my side' of the debate are enough to make me question my opinion. If giving a platform to a homophobic writer in any way bolsters the views of people like that then that really is a very strong argument in favour of censorship.'

 

[HyenaThePirate]

Snip

Quite frankly that doesn't matter to me. I don't care how hateful someone's words are. I don't care how stupid or ignorant their beliefs are. Because I myself have stupid and ignorant beliefs and can be hateful towards certain individuals and cultures as well, whether overtly or covertly, intentional or non. It's called being human.
I don't begrudge any man his opinion and his efforts to do what he believes in or stand on his own principles.
That doesn't mean I have to be his friend, but to try to censor or marginalize him is how OTHER people in history have suppressed the rights and freedoms of others.
I'm a firm believer that often the oppressed become the oppressors and this is an area of little exception. I also believe that to enact true change, real change, you have to accept others and live AS an example. Like Martin Luther King Jr. demonstrated, equality can be accomplished through peace and love far more effectively than by opposition and open dispute. You'll note that Card and his supporters haven't actually learned a damn thing from the events that occurred around him. You'll note that hollywood is still making a big budget Ender's film with big name stars. And you'll note that not many people who shared his beliefs seem to suddenly be altering their points of view because he's being openly persecuted. In fact, when has such tactics ever actually worked to change someone's mind and make them more open minded and tolerant?

That's like if I decide to boycott you and your work, disparage and sabotage you because you agree with homosexual marriage. Will the negative treatment of you (assuming I could get enough people to help me really make things miserable for you) cause you to alter your point of view? Or would you simply pay lip service or stay silent just to alleviate the pressure? Is being forced into silence TRULY something we advocate of those with alternative beliefs and points of view? Because we all know what a slippery slope that can be..

 

[Flatfrog]

That's like if I decide to boycott you and your work, disparage and sabotage you because you agree with homosexual marriage. Will the negative treatment of you (assuming I could get enough people to help me really make things miserable for you) cause you to alter your point of view? Or would you simply pay lip service or stay silent just to alleviate the pressure? Is being forced into silence TRULY something we advocate of those with alternative beliefs and points of view? Because we all know what a slippery slope that can be..

I have to go and make my kids' dinner so I have to be brief, but I'm going to take you up on this point. If I express an opinion and a significant number of people make a good argument that what I've said is unpleasant or morally wrong, then damn right I'm going to reconsider and possibly alter my point of view. As I have done often in my life when I discovered I was being inadvertently sexist, racist or otherwise prejudiced. And yes, if someone is a racist or a homophobe, then I find it pretty hard to be friends with them, or to support them by buying their products. I don't think that's censorship, that's just market forces, and it's how morality and social norms progress.

Now obviously there's a fine line here. Obviously when people are branded racist because they use the word 'niggardly', that's idiotic. And if Card was just a run-of-the-mill religious conservative who opposed gay marriage, then I wouldn't feel strongly about it and I wouldn't feel the need to boycott him. But he's more than that, he's an active campaigner against gay marriage and against homosexuality in general (again, I urge you to read what he's written, it's highly inflammatory). And I can't bring myself to support a person like that.

 

[keiji_Maeda]

Spoiler

bugger homeworld.

Am I to believe these children are striking back against the catholic church?

I really dont understand what you mean... :s

"bugger" is english slang for turd burgling.

I am English, and technically it does, but no one says that...bugger is just a general everyday expletive, like crap.

Well everyone still knows what crap means, and the context is rather heavily

what meaning he's using

I honestly thought he was making some kind of "catholics are aliens" comment...I havent been here long, dont know how tolerant people are of religions and whatnot.

Catholics are alien? I find the notion kind of hilarious, most of my close knit circle of friends think that this is hilarious as well.

It actually goes quite a ways to describe how most second generation immigrants are perceived by the kind of people who disregards someone purely by their beliefs. Or the way that they were raised....

YOu've made my day hen.

As a second gen immigrant myself (my grandparents are originally from Poland) I can say that the locals treat us more like blood-sucking vampires than aliens :s

Sigh, i miss tromaville, i bet you good money they would have produced that movie, Alien vampire Catholics
from the moon.

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

My fucking god, did they seriously just put the pivotal moment from the climax of the movie right there in the open at the end of the trailer? SERIOUSLY? I know Trailers Always Spoil [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrailersAlwaysSpoil] but that's RIDICULOUS!

 

[QtheMuse]

I wonder if they included the video game in the movie because that was the best part of the book to be honest.

 

[Jamieson 90]

My fucking god, did they seriously just put the pivotal moment from the climax of the movie right there in the open at the end of the trailer? SERIOUSLY? I know Trailers Always Spoil [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TrailersAlwaysSpoil] but that's RIDICULOUS!

To be fair no one who hasn't read the book will even know what happened, you have to remember that all they will know is that there is a war so that could be just part of some big battle at some stage in it. As for myself I'm more interested in whether they've actually done the ending like the book.

 

[Vorpal_Smilodon]

I will probably go to see this - I love the book, and as long as it doesnt go too Michael Bay it shouldnt be awful...although that said, it annoys me that

Spoiler

the trailer contains one of the final moments of the book; the climax where Ender destroys the bugger homeworld. Trailers in general need to stop blowing plot points.

Lets hope that OSC keeps as far away from it as possible.

I couldn't believe this - it's the biggest twist and the crux of the plot. I mean, I guess if you haven't read the book it wouldn't mean anything to you, but if you remember that two seconds of trailer during your viewing of the movie it would probably ruin then ending

 

[MagunBFP]

i agree card is a great writer and edners game is a great book. i dont think you can say card is right, sure it his opinion but trying to control people because there doing some you dislike but doesnt effect you is a horrible thing to do, but thats a much bigger issue i am a totally ill prepared.

as for profession work place, you may be right that people should leave their opinions at the door when entering a place of work but that doesn't mean they do and they dont. i feel getting people who dont get on and when card is so out spocken to work together it could be to the determent to the work, not to mention uncomfortable for both sides. i should also mention that they all work in the creative industry and i feel art works best when the creator put them self into the peaces and use there opinions (altho card does not have any homophobic stuff in enders game, he other book i am unsure) to shape there work, many book are repetitive of their author after all, so there could be a high chance that card opinions and other as this is a wide spread topic could state to effect the work which is okay while working alone but with other it could be come unpleasant.

Of course you don't think Card might be right, you've chosen a view that is completely opposed to his. He has God on his side and thats has been and it continues to be a sufficent reason for many millions of people to control others. Also we have laws that are specifically designed to control people who commit incest or beastiality because they are doing something you dislike, but doesn't actually effect you. I'm not likening homosexuality to either of those, except to point out they are all sexual and done behind closed doors.

I'm going to be very general about your next paragraph... it's full of "I feel", "there could be" you don't actually have any facts to back up your opinion that working with Card would be disruptive and bad for "teh arts" You say that because Card is vocal of his opinions no one should work with him in case they're offended... do you extend that to people of other faiths who praise God, or who are highly visible about their faith? I'm not religious and I actually find the idea of an all powerful God who allows the abject misery that some people have to live in disgusting so to praise him is highly offensive... so do you think that would a good enough reason to get them to find another job? Afterall it mightbe uncomfortable.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

You misunderstand me. I think every man has a right to his opinion though personally, I thoroughly disagree with Card. What I disagree as much or more however, is not working with someone like in this example because you disagree with them. It is fine to call him wrong, but the place to do it is in a debate or at the ballot on polling day, not in the creative room. What this says is that DC and Epic are also intolerant and don't respect people's rights to have their own views (whether they be right or wrong). Particularly interesting that it's in America which is all about freedom of speech, belief and all that stuff.

There's a line that's said quite a lot around here: "Freedom of speech doesn?t mean freedom from consequences"

The only people bringing politics and beliefs into it in the above example, are DC and Epic, and as I said, those don't belong in comics or games.

No. DC and Epic responded to people who said they would boycott, the people brought politics and beliefs into it. Don't DC and Epic have the right to protect their profits?

I'm going to be very general about your next paragraph... it's full of "I feel", "there could be" you don't actually have any facts to back up your opinion that working with Card would be disruptive and bad for "teh arts"

If you wanted to you, you can apply the same thing to Card as well. He feels that gays are abominations and evil, he has no facts to back it up other than a book that also says getting tattoos and eating shellfish are also evil.

You say that because Card is vocal of his opinions no one should work with him in case they're offended...

I don't think anyone is saying that. He's saying that anyone should have the choice to not work with him if they are offended.

do you extend that to people of other faiths who praise God, or who are highly visible about their faith? I'm not religious and I actually find the idea of an all powerful God who allows the abject misery that some people have to live in disgusting so to praise him is highly offensive... so do you think that would a good enough reason to get them to find another job? After all it mightbe uncomfortable.

I understand you're going with the slippery slope. But think about this, does a person who believes in god instantly equate to a hateful person? Card has said hateful and insulting things to people based on their sexual orientation, those people want to take a stand and say "that's not ok."

You're saying that lines should be drawn, but here neither side has the right to draw it.

I'm Jewish by birth, I could probably work with a self-proclaimed Neo-Nazi if I had to. But the moment that Neo-Nazi starts preaching the death of my family....I'm gonna take a stand and say "that's not ok."

 

[wolf thing]

i agree card is a great writer and edners game is a great book. i dont think you can say card is right, sure it his opinion but trying to control people because there doing some you dislike but doesnt effect you is a horrible thing to do, but thats a much bigger issue i am a totally ill prepared.

as for profession work place, you may be right that people should leave their opinions at the door when entering a place of work but that doesn't mean they do and they dont. i feel getting people who dont get on and when card is so out spocken to work together it could be to the determent to the work, not to mention uncomfortable for both sides. i should also mention that they all work in the creative industry and i feel art works best when the creator put them self into the peaces and use there opinions (altho card does not have any homophobic stuff in enders game, he other book i am unsure) to shape there work, many book are repetitive of their author after all, so there could be a high chance that card opinions and other as this is a wide spread topic could state to effect the work which is okay while working alone but with other it could be come unpleasant.

Of course you don't think Card might be right, you've chosen a view that is completely opposed to his. He has God on his side and thats has been and it continues to be a sufficent reason for many millions of people to control others. Also we have laws that are specifically designed to control people who commit incest or beastiality because they are doing something you dislike, but doesn't actually effect you. I'm not likening homosexuality to either of those, except to point out they are all sexual and done behind closed doors.

I'm going to be very general about your next paragraph... it's full of "I feel", "there could be" you don't actually have any facts to back up your opinion that working with Card would be disruptive and bad for "teh arts" You say that because Card is vocal of his opinions no one should work with him in case they're offended... do you extend that to people of other faiths who praise God, or who are highly visible about their faith? I'm not religious and I actually find the idea of an all powerful God who allows the abject misery that some people have to live in disgusting so to praise him is highly offensive... so do you think that would a good enough reason to get them to find another job? Afterall it mightbe uncomfortable.

I place "i feel" because they are my opinion and i have no facts , i dont know were i would get such information if you do place enlighten me. of cousre a lot of this is my opinion because this is a form inwhich we all express them, your expressing yous and im expressing mine. you first statement seems to be a no shit sherlock argument but it is of course very wise to ask for facts, but again it is a something to keep in mind even if it just my thought on the matter.

I am not saying not should work with card or work with people they disagree with, of course not that would be daft and i dont think i ever implyed that, so perhaps you reaching for fruit thats not there or maybe i should have thought more about what i was writting, most likey the second. All i was saying is that if people do not want to work together they should have to, from what i have said it may make out that Card would be the aggressor but no, it is mostly the artist didn't want to work with because he felt couldn't help but bring up Card homophobia or didnt want to contribution to the earnings of a man who puts money toward stuff he disagrees with.
as i have said writers and artist often put them self into there work, bring in the points of view into a there works, so people clash, there is plenty of stuff about artist not working together it not unheard off and it also not unheard of of people of different faiths and believes also working together. i was mearly talking about this case and saying it was with in the artist right to back out, for what ever reason.
it is a straw man argument to imply am speaking in general as i have tried to make my thought on the matter clear.

 

[chikusho]

Art is the expression of the artist. If you want to call something art, you then cannot separate the art from the artist.

Well, no. Art only exists in the eye of the beholder. As soon as a creator let's go of the work it belongs solely to whoever perceives it.
Intentional expression can miss the mark, and even counteract it's own message.
Just the same way unintended profoundness is no less profound.

On that note, literature is not art. But when the Author then centers his works around his beliefs, that is where problems arise. Ender's Game does not center around OSC's offensive beliefs, but a lot of his other books do.

The most laughable thing I've read all week.

 

[Platypus540]

Well, this looks crappy. They seem to have turned a slow-paced, 'serious' book into a generic action movie. The book has only hardly any human/alien fights; they're just not the point of the story.

Edit: Just realized that the explosion at the end of the trailer is when Ender destroys the bugger homeworld (aka the big finale and huge twist of the novel). If they not only show that in the trailer but show the planet's destruction straight up, they've definitely missed the point.

 

[uzo]

Well hey ...

... eventually they will make a half decent Brave New World.

The sad thing is we will all think it "was done yesterday".

EDIT

Get a horse to inhale glue, and sneeze. Throw a handful of various coloured glitter into said sneeze. Determine future by said glitter patterns.

 

[antipunt]

Interesting...I never knew Enders Game was so complex.
I guess I was too young to understand it >_>