Endor: Anatomy of a Tribal Insurgency
- Thread starter Robert Rath
- Start date
I don't consider the Viet Cong or American Revolution examples excellent either, but that's what Lucas was thinking of, along with the Huns vs. the Romans. Do they work totally? No, not really - there's a reason he isn't teaching history at Princeton. But those were the ones he chose, so I ran with them.albino boo said:
Though outside military intervention can be a stage in insurgency as it was in the American Revolution, as well as the Vietnam War. Though people don't often discuss it this way, Vietnam was a proxy war between the U.S. and the Soviets (including China) inasmuch as the French assistance to the U.S. and U.S. assistance to the Afghans during the Soviet invasion. In all these instances, outside forces exploit local grievances in order to strike a wider strategic blow. In other words, if we were comparing it against the American Revolution the Rebels would be the French, while the Ewoks were the colonists.
Also note that the article is, essentially, tongue-in-cheek.
Yes, exactly. Cultures in general like to celebrate their victories more than they like to mourn their failures, which is why all the American movies about 1812 are about the Battle of New Orleans.
Of course the War of 1812 also isn't helped by the fact that it wasn't that important to anyone involved - the British least of all. At best, it was a distraction for them. After all, they were too busy fighting Napoleon to worry about a bunch of farmers across the Atlantic! Americans tend to ignore it because in reality there wasn't much danger of the U.S. going back to Britain, who couldn't afford an extended conflict. I'd actually say the really overlooked war, though, is the Korean War. It never gets talked about at all, which is a shame considering it shaped issues that are still plaguing U.S. foreign policy today.
It was originally supposed to be a plant of Wookiees, but then Chewbacca became a really popular character and Lucas thought a planet of Wookiees would be a bad idea. Still don't quite understand why....Rastelin said:
Anyway, thus we got the teddy bears.
This is brilliant. Also, I had never heard of the horse soldiers in Afghanistan. I'll have to get that book.
From what I understand about Lucas, it was most likely a marketability-/merchandising-based decision.Susan Arendt said:
If they were Wookies, all the people who already bought Chewbacca toys would have no incentive to buy another Wookie doll. Whereas if you introduce a brand new race, and this time make them all cuddly instead, they'd go out and buy those.
I doubt that was all of the reasoning behind it, but by all accounts, Lucas was more interested in merchandise and milking the IP for cash by the time ROTJ came out than what makes a better movie.
I'm sure that was a pretty big part of it, but I think it also had to do with the fact that Chewbacca had already proven himself a capable warrior, so therefore Wookies wouldn't make good underdogs.Agayek said:
All this talk of Ewoks being psychotic little monsters brings back warm fuzzy memories of Empire at War, when I played the Empire and TIE-Bombed the Ewoks and their Tree houses on Endor to cinders. That'll show those fuzzballs who's the boss!
In the DVD commentary Lucas claimed that the main reason they didn't use Wookies was because he wanted a "primitive" tribal society, and since Chewbacca was shown to be able to use technology, pilot starships, etc. they figured that the rest of the Wookies were just as technologically able.Susan Arendt said:
(Shrug.) At least that's what Lucas claimed. Your mileage may vary on that answer. It's Lucas, he doesn't always make sense.
I never thought of the Ewoks as an 'insurgency'...that really doesn't make much sense. If there's ONE thing the Empire's down with; it's crushing everything that opposes it. I have to think that if old Palpi really thought the Ewoks were a threat, but couldn't spare the resources for a planet-wide hunting expedition, he would have at least ordered a 'scorched earth' cordon of 10 kilometers in every direction of the shield generator to eliminate any chances of a sneak attack (and, thus, free up the AT-AT to do what it does best).
To me, it seemed the Empire considered ewoks to be as cute and harmless as we would. Grumpy creatures that might toss a crude spear or a stone at you from time to time, but ultimately not a consideration in larger strategies. I don't think the underlying premise of the article is necessarily too far off, but some of the pre-game details don't add up.
To me, it seemed the Empire considered ewoks to be as cute and harmless as we would. Grumpy creatures that might toss a crude spear or a stone at you from time to time, but ultimately not a consideration in larger strategies. I don't think the underlying premise of the article is necessarily too far off, but some of the pre-game details don't add up.
Nope, just ain't buying it. Stone age societies had enough trouble with bronze and iron age soldiers. Steel and gunpowder won almost every time. Cortes briefly got in a pickle but it still ended with Azteks dead, not Spaniards. There was nowhere near the numerical advantage that would make the Zulu example applicable. And hunter/gatherer tribes very rarely go after prey larger than them.
Like some others have said, I'm not really buying the insurgency angle. (regardless of what Lucas apparently intended)
Still, Great article, very interesting to read. I've liked every Critical Intel but so far the complete nerd-fest lore delving stuff like this and the Hoth Tactics article have been my favourites.
Still, Great article, very interesting to read. I've liked every Critical Intel but so far the complete nerd-fest lore delving stuff like this and the Hoth Tactics article have been my favourites.
Wow, That's amazing... I think I'm gonna use that as my headcannon and pretend that's what actually happened.RhombusHatesYou said:
If the war had gone on, the Ewoks would inevitably lose. But they didn't have to win, they just had to distract one Imperial garrison long enough to sabotage the shield generator.Nicholas Bagwell said:
Perhaps. This does bring up another question: just what was that Stormtrooper armor supposedly made of and why would they continue to wear something so useless?StashAugustine said:
...Now that I think about it, am I the only one who would like to see insurgent tactics be better supported in an RTS? Because I think we can consider Zerg rushing a tired tactic that was only fun for its sheer simplicity and the devastation it could bring, and the genre could use a fresh approach on how to make the games more open to creative strategy.
Ah Empire at War, one of the best Star Wars games out..... that's it I'm reinstalling!Darth_Payn said:
OT: I've got to say that's a great way of looking at it, even if there might be some holes in the theory to some. Personally I never let it get to me too much, it wasn't the first movie I had seen where guerrilla warfare had one out with inferior weapons.
Captcha: "Be serious now" - errrr.... no.
I've never found the Ewoks particularly irritating. Something people seem to overlook is that they're supposed to be a metaphor. I mean think about it, they're a group fighting against an enemy with a massive advantage in terms of firepower, with only slapped-together equipment that they nevertheless use with zeal and ingenuity to make it effective. Sound familiar yet?
They're the Rebellion.
In New Hope, what tactics do the Rebellion use to destroy the moon-sized, planet-destroying space station? Try and face it in an all-out pitched battle? Nope, small group of elite pilots flying battered craft. Empire tactics rely very much on knowing where your target is so you can step in and stomp it like a bug, using guerilla tactics like the Rebellion and Ewoks do is probably the best counter
They're the Rebellion.
In New Hope, what tactics do the Rebellion use to destroy the moon-sized, planet-destroying space station? Try and face it in an all-out pitched battle? Nope, small group of elite pilots flying battered craft. Empire tactics rely very much on knowing where your target is so you can step in and stomp it like a bug, using guerilla tactics like the Rebellion and Ewoks do is probably the best counter
It's my head canon for most movies. Very few films can't be improved by the inclusion of a gore-soaked wookie rampage.Ilikemilkshake said: