Enough with the Bioshock 2 bashing.

[Nomanslander]

OMG, it was a sequel, how dare they!

This is something I hear a lot, and it perplexes me how so many have decided to target this game and not the 50 thousand other actual bad sequels that have come out recently.

If the game was an out right piece of garbage, I could understand the sentiment, but that wasn't the case. It was more of the same with better gameplay, and a not as riveting story, the game was still above average. Could it have been better, Yes! But why this game and not, like I said before, and not the thousands of others?

As a movie Bioshock 2 would be the Temple of Doom, way dumber but a lot more fun. Not Highlander 2 or the Matrix sequels which everyone makes it out to be. To be that you would have to undermine everything that made the original great and spit in its face.

I'm pretty sure this has a lot to do with the whole MP thing. The fact they added Mutiplayer instead of working more on the single player. Fans found offense to this and decided to hate this game no matter its merits.

You see a game like MW2 or Halo 3, you expect a shitty 4 hour campaign and the game to be nothing but MP, but a game like Bioshock felt like a real betrayal for those who strive for the storytelling in games.

As for people complaining about the single player, well yes! The story telling and scripted events were not on par. Except for the gameplay which was a broken mess in the first game turned out a lot more better this romp around.

Story-wise? I'm still wondering where the fuck the rest of the world is when all this shit is going on in Rapture, considering Rapture isn't a bubble world onto itself. For me it's one giant plot thread that's still left over from the first game, so another words, no, the story isn't done yet.

Anyways, if you didn't like the game, you didn't like it, but stop targeting this game as some of the worse sequels because that's just being unfair.

 

[TheComedown]

Is this a response to the "The top 7 reasons why Bioshock 2 is better than Bioshock 1" thread?

That's not so much people bashing Bioshock 2 as people pointing out every point the OP made was invalid and not thought through.

As for Bioshock 2 the reason is not MP its more so that most of the Bioshock 1 fans didn't think the game needed a sequel, the first wrapped everything up nicely, played really well, and didn't have any glaring flaws to break flow or the experience.

The second one by no means is a bad game, the problem was that Bioshock was a really hard act to follow (at least for those that got it/liked it) and at least for me it felt like a cash in on the name and it failed to engage me like the first, the fact that I found it boring and repetitive after the first level didn't help.

Story-wise? I'm still wondering where the fuck the rest of the world is when all this shit is going on in Rapture, considering Rapture isn't a bubble world onto itself.

Actually it is, that's the whole point it was explained in the first game.

But yes in the end it all comes down to opinion as to which was better, but to argue so hard as to which is better is pointless.

 

[Lacsapix]

if Bioshock 2 was created before Bioshock 1 everyone would find it a awsome game and enjoy it...
still the gameplay in 2 was so much better (no more swapping between weapons and plasmids)

 

[The Real Sandman]

TheComedown pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Bioshock 2 wasn't anywhere close to being a bad game and there are definetly more pointless (FEAR 2,Army of Two: 40th Day) and worse (Kingdom Hearts II, RE5) sequals out there.

But compared to it's predecessor, while the gameplay was better than ever, the story, characters, atmosphere, and pacing weren't as good as they were before.

And that's the thing really.

For it was the story, characters, atmosphere, and pacing that made the first Bioshock awesome in the first place. The guns, the superpowers, and the crazy enemies were just icing on an already very well made cake.

Bioshock 2 seemed to be made by people who really liked the first one, but didn't actually get what the game was trying convey.

On a side note, you really shouldn't waist your breathe (or wrist tendons?) telling people on the internet to not bash a game. You should might as well tell orca whales to not eat baby sealions, it's just what they do!

 

[jamesworkshop]

I agree In some ways Bioshock 2 was never going to please, the orginal had about 50 different game of the year awards awarded to it.

The addition of multiplayer was handled by a different team which is actually fairly common because most normal game programers are not specialised enough to write decent server/network code and also ignores the fact in raw gameplay Bioshock 2 trumps the orginal in every way.

Story is the biggest complaint but I'm still not convinced that it's "dumber" than the orginal it does however have a completly different approach in story telling and themes.

The story telling is more immediate in number 2 where events happen in the present and you have far more ability to influence the world in the moment, Bioshock spent most of the time telling the story of what Rapture was and its history (people & Places) and the player arives after all the interesting conflicts have finished now only able to walk down the fixed path of surviving to the next encounter.

Bioshock 2 is a struggle involving the future of rapture not exploring the past events of a civil war but showing the regrowth of the failed objectivist state constantly reflected in the games imagary of Rebirth displayed in the Imago butterfly surrounding Dr.Lamb.

Pacing is more of a technical story telling issue and Bioshock 2 does not suffer from an unconvincing third act and poor ending that the orginal handled quite badly and is often overlooked when truthly admiting that Bioshock had deep flaws despite still being able to be a masterpiece in how to make an outstanding videogame.
Opposing that the orginal had a far more powerful and compelling intro and again seems to fit that the sequel is the mirror opposite of bioshock that even the quality reverses direction during the game from "good to bad" and then "bad to good"

Dialogue and voice acting again is directly compariable, people don't seem to acknowledge that Andrew Ryan and Fontaine both continued to have an Audio Diary presence in Bio2.
More so in Ryans case with The Ryan amusment parks tour for children being a brilliant monument to Ryan later hypocrisy in doing all the things "the evils of the surface" he tried to scare children with.

Themetically Bio2 also opposes Bioshock in that the story is far more optimistic in tone rather than pesimistic in that one dealt with the problems that no matter how noble your ideals, people are flawed and will ruin Utopia by their very presence because humans are after all far too subjective to survive in a completly objective enviroment it was that dynamic that made Andrew Ryan such a brilliant creation (Bio2 sadly doesn't create a comparable character)

The player at first glance believes in Ryans dream and his repulsion to things like slavery make him an extremly likable character on the surface which makes it extremly awarkward to even call him a villian at all when most people cared about his motivations at the start only then to discover later that Rapture was more a personal attempted to be celebrated by the people.
He did as we discover in Bio2 create a cathedral dedicated to himself "Ryan amusments tour"

Optimism is reflected in the wonderful parenting dynamic of Delta and Elanor which explored in much greater detail than bioshock the themes of being an absentee father figure doubly effective considering the Frankenstein nature of the Big daddy and Little sister that it was possible to not fall to Raptures insanity.
The ability to show forgivness can redeem not only yourself but those witnessing to those actions

"Yet, as I sat there with you, I wondered if even I could be redeemed. ..."
Elanor Lamb

It's a cauntionary tale as well by showing the effects good/bad parenting has on children depending of course on the path the player takes but ends up with a message that strongly reminds me of Charlie and the chocolate factory although lacks the
"bad things happen to bad people" brand of cosmic justice that prevails in the book.


In a summary Bioshock 2 is a decent entry into the Bioshock series that gives us better insight to the characters motivations it's best feature is that it makes the story of Bioshock better, showing the world the life of the little sister (easily a highlight of the series) that shows even a well known entity like rapture can still hold surprises.

We learn that Andrew Ryan did desire to have children that, wait for it.. in classical bioshock style he claims to consider having after the new year which is fairly under the radar to a newcomer or unobservant player but to a Bioshock fanatic (we all know what happened new years eve 1959) adds a brilliant twist to the betrayal and creation of Jack.

What I consider to be the most solid example of how Bio2 actually makes the orginal narative better and for that makes it one of the best sequels to exist considering it also goes in new directions at the same time.

Edit I just remembered another writers work detailing that Bioshock 2 was a story of not discovering your identity but finding a new one "rebirth"

 

[tlozoot]

I'd argue how the second was fine gameplay wise but seemed very unnecessary when it came to the narrative and all that...

...only all the posters above have done an excellent enough job in doing just that. Good job.

 

[Hiphophippo]

I'm of the unpopular opinion that Bioshock 2 is better than the first. Better all around gameplay and I really enjoyed the personal take on the story. Carried more weight, at least for me anyway.

 

[Zeromaeus]

BioShock 2 was not a bad game. It just fell short in its appeal to its predecessor. While this is not the opinion of everyone, it seems to be the general consensus.

Thank. Peace. I'm out.

 

[Pearwood]

Bioshock 2 was fine, I haven't seen anyone say anything else. Unnecessary yes but you can't really deny that, Bioshock 1 tied up its story pretty well.

 

[Gigano]

It's a good game in its own right, but it just builds upon an engaging story which was better left neatly tied up in the first game. If it was called "Revenge of the Bionic Ocean Dweller", then I'm sure it would've only drawn (moderate) praise.

I see no point in bashing it though; If one loved the original Bioshock and its engaging philosophical musings, then simply don't play the sequal. Or get the CE of it, and acquire the original one's score on LP. How classy is that?

 

[Wolfram23]

For me, I found BioShock 2 to be superior. Just a lot more fun to play. 1 was cool and all, especially the whole descending into Rapture. But honestly, I lost interest at the end (I recall chasing Ryan around) and never quite finished it. Even getting to that point was a bit of a hassle, forcing myself to play another hour or whatever.

BioShock 2 I simply enjoyed, start to finish. It was great. Felt fun being a bad ass big daddy. Arm drill and charge ftw!

And the multiplayer was actually pretty fun. I think I played to about level 11 or something so not a lot, but it was definitely fun. Very arcady.

 

[Woodsey]

Bioshock 2 is better than Bioshock on virtually every level, other than the fact that Rapture doesn't feel all-too-fresh on a second visit.

 

[Kwatsu]

I played the original but not the sequel. Still, from what I've heard, I wonder: if BioShock 2 had been the first BioShock game we ever saw, and the original BioShock had come along after that, would people's opinions of each game change? Would they even work better that way around--make BioShock 2 much more of a prequel?

 

[Nomanslander]

Actually it is, that's the whole point it was explained in the first game.

But yes in the end it all comes down to opinion as to which was better, but to argue so hard as to which is better is pointless.

In the first game we had espionage where Andrew Ryan had captured a lot of CIA/KGB spies and executed them.

But you know for a fact there's nothing preventing a full on invasion by Soviet/American troops now that Rapture is in shambles, hell, I was surprised that wasn't the story in the second game.

This series takes place during the Cold War, a time when the arms race was really getting fueled up for a possible nuclear apocalypse. A city like Rapture with all it's technological advancements especially in the field of building a super soldier would be very highly sought after by the rest of the world, and there for I expect at least in the next game American/Soviet troops in Rapture being attacked by the few splicers left.

Well, that is if the devs were to really think things through.

 

[Cynical skeptic]

Minor gameplay improvements + multiplayer versus extreme writing/pacing deficits

FIGHT

Negatives win, flawless victory.

I know it feels like you're fighting the good fight to "react" to valid criticism in this way, but sequels should improve or at least maintain. Bioshock did neither. The writing was terrible and the gameplay adjustments weren't anything impressive. They were the type of stuff that could've been patched into the original game. Which makes the devs of bioshock 2 seem lazy on top of being incompetent.

Also... no one really gives sequels to games no one played much attention because no one played the original or the sequel. Kinda obvious.

 

[Zeromaeus]

Actually it is, that's the whole point it was explained in the first game.

But yes in the end it all comes down to opinion as to which was better, but to argue so hard as to which is better is pointless.

In the first game we had espionage where Andrew Ryan had captured a lot of CIA/KGB spies and executed them.

But you know for a fact there's nothing preventing a full on invasion by Soviet/American troops now that Rapture is in shambles, hell, I was surprised that wasn't the story in the second game.

This series takes place during the Cold War, a time when the arms race was really getting fueled up for a possible nuclear apocalypse. A city like Rapture with all it's technological advancements especially in the field of building a super soldier would be very highly sought after by the rest of the world, and there for I expect at least in the next game American/Soviet troops in Rapture being attacked by the few splicers left.

Well, that is if the devs were to really think things through.

I'm afraid you may have stumbled over the plot of the inevitable BioShock 3.

 

[squid5580]

It wasn't a bad game. It was a disappointing game IMO. It lost its charm, its soul, in the sequel. And if you can't accept that is how I feel about it oh well. Making a stop whining thread isn't going to change that or stop me from voicing it. Afterall that is why I am on a forum in the first place. And I will not be censored as much as you would like to censor us.

 

[Nomanslander]

Bioshock 2 is better than Bioshock on virtually every level, other than the fact that Rapture doesn't feel all-too-fresh on a second visit.

You know, I've read the other thread and posted a couple of comments, and honestly I don't agree with what was said there.

My views were you'd be getting something different with each title, the trade off being better gameplay over storytelling and vice versa.

The point of this thread was to express my distaste of seeing Bioshock 2 pop up every time in threads talking about shitty sequels, and I know this is the Yahtzee forums and his opinion was the game was complete garbage.

Tastes will always vary, and I know there's those who couldn't stand both games and thought they were shitty System Shock 2 knock offs.

But I just don't like it when people become overly judgmental....=/

Speaking of which, maybe it's time people should lay off some of the Halo bashing I'm seeing reemerge. Last I check MW2 is still the poster boy for that type of stuff.

lol

 

[Buizel91]

I agree In some ways Bioshock 2 was never going to please, the orginal had about 50 different game of the year awards awarded to it.

The addition of multiplayer was handled by a different team which is actually fairly common because most normal game programers are not specialised enough to write decent server/network code and also ignores the fact in raw gameplay Bioshock 2 trumps the orginal in every way.

Story is the biggest complaint but I'm still not convinced that it's "dumber" than the orginal it does however have a completly different approach in story telling and themes.

The story telling is more immediate in number 2 where events happen in the present and you have far more ability to influence the world in the moment, Bioshock spent most of the time telling the story of what Rapture was and its history (people & Places) and the player arives after all the interesting conflicts have finished now only able to walk down the fixed path of surviving to the next encounter.

Bioshock 2 is a struggle involving the future of rapture not exploring the past events of a civil war but showing the regrowth of the failed objectivist state constantly reflected in the games imagary of Rebirth displayed in the Imago butterfly surrounding Dr.Lamb.

Pacing is more of a technical story telling issue and Bioshock 2 does not suffer from an unconvincing third act and poor ending that the orginal handled quite badly and is often overlooked when truthly admiting that Bioshock had deep flaws despite still being able to be a masterpiece in how to make an outstanding videogame.
Opposing that the orginal had a far more powerful and compelling intro and again seems to fit that the sequel is the mirror opposite of bioshock that even the quality reverses direction during the game from "good to bad" and then "bad to good"

Dialogue and voice acting again is directly compariable, people don't seem to acknowledge that Andrew Ryan and Fontaine both continued to have an Audio Diary presence in Bio2.
More so in Ryans case with The Ryan amusment parks tour for children being a brilliant monument to Ryan later hypocrisy in doing all the things "the evils of the surface" he tried to scare children with.

Themetically Bio2 also opposes Bioshock in that the story is far more optimistic in tone rather than pesimistic in that one dealt with the problems that no matter how noble your ideals, people are flawed and will ruin Utopia by their very presence because humans are after all far too subjective to survive in a completly objective enviroment it was that dynamic that made Andrew Ryan such a brilliant creation (Bio2 sadly doesn't create a comparable character)

The player at first glance believes in Ryans dream and his repulsion to things like slavery make him an extremly likable character on the surface which makes it extremly awarkward to even call him a villian at all when most people cared about his motivations at the start only then to discover later that Rapture was more a personal attempted to be celebrated by the people.
He did as we discover in Bio2 create a cathedral dedicated to himself "Ryan amusments tour"

Optimism is reflected in the wonderful parenting dynamic of Delta and Elanor which explored in much greater detail than bioshock the themes of being an absentee father figure doubly effective considering the Frankenstein nature of the Big daddy and Little sister that it was possible to not fall to Raptures insanity.
The ability to show forgivness can redeem not only yourself but those witnessing to those actions

"Yet, as I sat there with you, I wondered if even I could be redeemed. ..."
Elanor Lamb

It's a cauntionary tale as well by showing the effects good/bad parenting has on children depending of course on the path the player takes but ends up with a message that strongly reminds me of Charlie and the chocolate factory although lacks the
"bad things happen to bad people" brand of cosmic justice that prevails in the book.


In a summary Bioshock 2 is a decent entry into the Bioshock series that gives us better insight to the characters motivations it's best feature is that it makes the story of Bioshock better, showing the world the life of the little sister (easily a highlight of the series) that shows even a well known entity like rapture can still hold surprises.

We learn that Andrew Ryan did desire to have children that, wait for it.. in classical bioshock style he claims to consider having after the new year which is fairly under the radar to a newcomer or unobservant player but to a Bioshock fanatic (we all know what happened new years eve 1959) adds a brilliant twist to the betrayal and creation of Jack.

What I consider to be the most solid example of how Bio2 actually makes the orginal narative better and for that makes it one of the best sequels to exist considering it also goes in new directions at the same time.

Edit I just remembered another writers work detailing that Bioshock 2 was a story of not discovering your identity but finding a new one "rebirth"

Sorry to sound like a stupid melt, but what happened in 1959

And i agree, i hate anyone who says "OMG THIZZ GAME SHUD NOT HAVE A SEQUEL CAUSE THE FIRST ONE WAS AMAZIN!"

Sure some games don't deserve sequels...Farcry for example (even though i enjoyed it at first) but with games like HALO, COD, Half Life and so on, people expected or at least asked the developers to carry it on, which they did, at least most developers acctualy listen to their fans instead of shoving it in their face.

 

[Zeromaeus]

Bioshock 2 is better than Bioshock on virtually every level, other than the fact that Rapture doesn't feel all-too-fresh on a second visit.

You know, I've read the other thread and posted a couple of comments, and honestly I don't agree with what was said there.

My views were you'd be getting something different with each title, the trade off being better gameplay over storytelling and vice versa.

The point of this thread was to express my distaste of seeing Bioshock 2 pop up every time in threads talking about shitty sequels, and I know this is the Yahtzee forums and his opinion was the game was complete garbage.

Tastes will always vary, and I know there's those who couldn't stand both games and thought they were shitty System Shock 2 knock offs.

But I just don't like it when people become overly judgmental....=/

Speaking of which, maybe it's time people should lay off some of the Halo bashing I'm seeing reemerge. Last I check MW2 is still the poster boy for that type of stuff.

lol

You do understand what people mean when they say it was an unnecessary sequel, right? It doesn't mean it was bad. It was good, great even. It just wasn't necessary to understand the Rapture experience any deeper than what the first game gave you. The first game tied off all the plot points fairly neatly. No loose ends of any real importance persee. The second game picked up from a finished story. I would have preferred just a new IP. Even so, I did enjoy what I got. I bought it a week before it came out and beat it three days after I picked it up. It was a fun game. It just didn't feel necessary. Like the Shrek 2 or the Matrix Reloaded or Super Mario Galaxy 2 or Pirates of the Carribean 2 or, as much as I hate to admit it, all of the Monkey island games after the second one.