Enough with the tech demos

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Matthew Jabour

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This launch lineup had potential. Serious potential. I mean, look at all the games that came out recently. Think about how good these games sounded on paper. A 3D platformer where you grow and get stronger as you progress. A hack n' slash game centered around Romans, the second most cinematic ancient fighters next to Spartans. A new Dead Rising with a much larger map. A story of space Nazis and their surprisingly complex moralities. A game where you shoot bullets out of guns! Most launch lineups are crap, but every game coming out for these ones seemed like it could be great!

But it wasn't. And do you know why? Because they weren't focused on being games. They were focused on being tech demos.

Look at how many polygons your character can be composed of! Look at how many zombies we have onscreen! Look at how high quality these dark rooms of repetitive combat are rendered in! Look at how Crytek made a game for consoles! Look at how there's no more loading ti...on second thought, look back at the polygons again!

That's lame. That's really lame. Usually, when a console comes out, you'll have one or two tech demo games come out with it, but generally these games are either a) surrounded by actually good games, or b) good themselves. Here, every single launch title was hampered by the fact that it had to prove its graphics were 'next-gen'.

There's a reason most of us don't like the push for higher graphical fidelity - it kneecaps the development team and forces them to spend time they could be using to make a better game. Knack obviously had a lot of good ideas going for it, but when you play the game, you can see hundreds of places that could have used more polishing than the graphics. Dead Rising 3, in its quest to ape modern graphics, went the GTA IV path of making things realistically gritty - which, in a game where you use exploding jack-in-the-boxes to kill zombies, is a pretty stupid move.

To top it all off, they weren't even good as tech demos! Killzone could've easily been on the PS4 - or the Wii U for that matter. Knack got an easy ride by going stylized, but there were several times that were clearly meant to be 'wow' moments when I saw that their expansive and dramatic skyboxes seemed distinctly two dimensional. And Ryse...well, it's one thing when a zombie glitches through a wall, but in games where you can count each individual blood droplet, graphical glitches break the flow like a beluga whale in a river. And furthermore, Crytek still has the same problem it's had in all of its games: Even at the highest quality, the characters' faces look like they're made of Play-Doh. That may sound petty, but if you're shooting for photorealism, any failure is a complete failure. I thought tech demos were supposed to show what a console COULD do, not illuminate the glass ceiling they're frantically trying to tell you doesn't exist.

Obviously, Sony and Microsoft are trying to show what their new consoles can do. They want to prove there's a reason for making the switch to next gen. Well, that's a lost cause, gents. We all know that the reason you made new consoles was that your corporate money lagoon was running dry, so you slapped on another number, gave your box a tilt, and called it the PS4. You know what would be a good reason for buying a next-gen console would be? Having good games! That's how the 3DS did it when its gimmicks failed. Or do you not make those anymore?

We shouldn't put up with this. We shouldn't encourage this. We need to send the message that we don't want tech demos with our new consoles! If they want us to buy a new console, they should make it different, with something that sets it apart from the old. Then, instead of focusing on cranking up the graphics, they could simply provide games that benefit from the new features. And maybe one of those games could have a fat man in a red hat jumping on enemies and turning into a cat. Maybe, far in the future, that glorious day will come. But that's just an opinion. What do you all think?

Bonus: PC discussion question: If PCs are so much better than consoles, why is Steam now starting its own console? And if Steam is no longer exclusive to PCs, what makes PCs so good anyway? Explain.
 

The Madman

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Every new platform since the start has always had a rush of games eager to try and show off their new capabilities as a neat gimmick, it'll be gone soon enough once the initial novelty wears off. This has been going on since before 3D was even a thing, it's not worth worrying about.

Matthew Jabour said:
Bonus: PC discussion question: If PCs are so much better than consoles, why is Steam now starting its own console? And if Steam is no longer exclusive to PCs, what makes PCs so good anyway? Explain.
Seriously?

Alright. Valve aren't starting a console, they're planning on marketing a series of mid-range PC's that use a standardized OS. Essentially the plan is a one-stop easy play PC, not an entirely different platform like consoles. In fact since Valve are planning to release the OS for free, any PC can be made into a 'steambox' by just installing that. There are already companies other than Valve advertising their own special 'steambox' systems, which again are just PC's with a unique OS other than windows and designed around gaming.

That's all it is. Seriously. It's just meant to make PC gaming a bit easier for people who aren't too tech savy. Honestly I'm pretty skeptical it's even worth all the attention it's been getting.

Meanwhile if you honestly think the best thing about PC gaming is STEAM, you really don't know much about the platform. STEAM is neat and all, but it's just a distribution platform. There are dozens of others out there which while often not as good or convenient, would quickly step in to fill the gap left by STEAM if Valve suddenly decided to make console games and abandon a market of millions of consumers for some insane reason.

I rather like the idea of a PC gaming platform dominated by GOG as an online retailer in place of STEAM... yeah, that would be neat.
 

BrotherRool

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I'm pretty sure the launch games were crud because they were launch games not tech demos. You said they had potential, but just the fact they're launch games means they get rushed out of the gate with no room for quality assurance. I don't think it was the tech demo thing.

There's a reason why Watch Dogs and inFamous Second Son aren't launch titles, and it's because their publishers wanted to make sure those games are actually good
 

Matthew Jabour

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The Madman said:
Meanwhile if you honestly think the best thing about PC gaming is STEAM, you really don't know much about the platform. STEAM is neat and all, but it's just a distribution platform. There are dozens of others out there which while often not as good or convenient, would quickly step in to fill the gap left by STEAM if Valve suddenly decided to make console games and abandon a market of millions of consumers for some insane reason.
Oh, really? What else could fill Steam's shoes? GOG? That's niche appeal. Origin? I don't even think I have to debunk that.

And without Steam, I really can't think of much a PC can do that consoles can't in the way of gaming. The only PC games I own are on Steam. Do PC ports come with flowers and chocolates, or does a high-end PC shoot heroin into your arms as you play? Because, honestly, I can't think of one thing playing on a PC would help with.

And don't get me started on graphics.
 

Roxas1359

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Matthew Jabour said:
Oh, really? What else could fill Steam's shoes? GOG? That's niche appeal. Origin? I don't even think I have to debunk that.
Believe me, GoG is far from niche appeal as there are other games and new games that are released on there that you can purchase, and hell even though Origin is crap when compared to that of Steam it's getting better.
What PCs have is something that consoles never will, and that is an open-system as opposed to a console's closed system of how things are done.
PC also generally will have higher and constant framerates when compared to that of consoles, if optimized correctly, and allow for modding of the game in many ways in which consoles will not allow you since they are a closed system.
Plus with the higher RAM that generally PCs tend to have, the loading times and AI generally can be vastly improved, and online multiplayer is able to be on a much larger scale than how it can on consoles.

Note that I'm primarily a console gamer who only dabbles in PC from time to time, and even then there are many alternatives that PC gaming has that are better than how console gaming does, and the main point of it is that PCs are open platforms while consoles are closed.

Also, all consoles have tech demo like games at their launch, as it's to show what the console can do mainly and to push limits. Whether the game is fun or not is debatable since that can go down to opinion, but I never expect a launch game to exceedingly blow me away half the time, no matter the platform it is on.
 

IceForce

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Matthew Jabour said:
And without Steam, I really can't think of much a PC can do that consoles can't in the way of gaming. The only PC games I own are on Steam. Do PC ports come with flowers and chocolates, or does a high-end PC shoot heroin into your arms as you play? Because, honestly, I can't think of one thing playing on a PC would help with.

And don't get me started on graphics.


Ever heard of mods?

Also, I like the freedom a PC gives me, in that I can plug in a controller when I want to, or simply use a mouse and keyboard when I want to.
 

Matthew Jabour

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IceForce said:
Matthew Jabour said:
And without Steam, I really can't think of much a PC can do that consoles can't in the way of gaming. The only PC games I own are on Steam. Do PC ports come with flowers and chocolates, or does a high-end PC shoot heroin into your arms as you play? Because, honestly, I can't think of one thing playing on a PC would help with.

And don't get me started on graphics.


Ever heard of mods?

Also, I like the freedom a PC gives me, in that I can plug in a controller when I want to, or simply use a mouse and keyboard when I want to.
Really? A keyboard? That is the cornerstone of your argument? The capability to have 50 buttons at the ready instead of 8? The control scheme is not a selling point - or even a bullet point. Mods, on the other hand, are a bullet point. You know what a selling point is? Zelda.
 

Roxas1359

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Matthew Jabour said:
Really? A keyboard? That is the cornerstone of your argument? The capability to have 50 buttons at the ready instead of 8? The control scheme is not a selling point - or even a bullet point. Mods, on the other hand, are a bullet point. You know what a selling point is? Zelda.
And on the off chance that someone doesn't like Zelda, Mario, or other ones you'd possibly retort with then what? You do realize that there are emulators people use on PCs that let them play Nintendo games right? I don't endorse or condone it, but that kind of negates your selling point because Zelda can be played on the PC as well, and that goes for Wii titles as well.
 

IceForce

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Matthew Jabour said:
Really? A keyboard? That is the cornerstone of your argument? The capability to have 50 buttons at the ready instead of 8? The control scheme is not a selling point - or even a bullet point. Mods, on the other hand, are a bullet point. You know what a selling point is? Zelda.
I'm sorry, but this is a hilariously poor argument.

You say Zelda, which is a personal preference (some people like Zelda, some people don't).
I say mouse and keyboard controls, which once again is a personal preference (some people like mouse and keyboard controls, some people don't).

But you're saying YOUR personal preference is better than mine, because ... reasons.
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Matthew Jabour said:
All right, this thread is getting off-topic. Let's just abandon this.
Hey, you're the one that started it. (I mean you literally dragged your own thread off track, that's a new one.)

It's all due to a combination of:

1) New console = new graphics to get people to upgrade.

2) Devs still feeling out the hardware.

3) Consoles are just catching up to PC graphics wise.

The first two have been around for several generations but number three will mean that for now devs are going to go for graphics as much of the legwork has already been completed and in this age of bloated game budgets any form of (illogical) cost cutting is to be grasped so firmly that it gets strangled. Basicly graphics are the low hanging fruit for both publishers and devs.

The best and easiest solution for these problems is don't buy either console yet.

And if you really dislike the whole 'grim and gritty' aesthetic that is AAA, try indies or Kickstarter.

I myself have recently back a game about Tsarist Russia IN SPACE! using the Unity Engine and one where you play as a sentient alien plant.

As for your 'bonus' question, I'm not going near that flamebait with a D&D ten foot pole and [user]The Madman[/user] answered it anyway. (Except for the interest part, I for one would like to see Linux become more accepted as an alternate to Windows by publishers and the Steambox may provide the needed push).
 

lacktheknack

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Matthew Jabour said:
All right, this thread is getting off-topic. Let's just abandon this.
Yes, let's.

And let us never have a Matthew Jarbour-started thread involving his opinions about the PC in the OP ever again, because they only go well.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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The first releases of a new console are usually underwhelming. In a year or so, we will start to see quality titles emerge. Maybe. Depending on the implemented "Fee to Pay" model Jim Sterling did a video on.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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lacktheknack said:
Matthew Jabour said:
All right, this thread is getting off-topic. Let's just abandon this.
Yes, let's.

And let us never have a Matthew Jarbour-started thread involving his opinions about the PC in the OP ever again, because they only go well.
You should amend that last statement in the form of a law and add it to the Escapist law book. XD

OT: I can only say this much, PC is much better than consoles in ways of personal repair (i.e. you can repair your own PC without much issue if a piece of hardware burns out or otherwise breaks without having to send it to Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo), software modding (see: Skyrim/Oblivion/Morrowind/Fallout 3/New Vegas, Mount and Blade series), more experimental games (see: indie games), and it has other daily functions that consoles lack like personal customization and lack of advertisements.
However, Consoles are easier in convenience for game enthusiasts who don't want to deal with O/S crashes, horrible ports by lazy developers/publishers, don't understand hardware or don't care, exclusive titles and other reasons.
Personally I own both sides of the issue and am happy knowing there are multiple options for gaming pleasure and would be saddened if games became monopolized by one side. Diversity breeds creativity, whether you like all options or not, whether all options are viable or not, it serves to expand the possibility rather than limit it.
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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Matthew Jabour said:
The Madman said:
Meanwhile if you honestly think the best thing about PC gaming is STEAM, you really don't know much about the platform. STEAM is neat and all, but it's just a distribution platform. There are dozens of others out there which while often not as good or convenient, would quickly step in to fill the gap left by STEAM if Valve suddenly decided to make console games and abandon a market of millions of consumers for some insane reason.
Oh, really? What else could fill Steam's shoes? GOG? That's niche appeal. Origin? I don't even think I have to debunk that.

And without Steam, I really can't think of much a PC can do that consoles can't in the way of gaming. The only PC games I own are on Steam. Do PC ports come with flowers and chocolates, or does a high-end PC shoot heroin into your arms as you play? Because, honestly, I can't think of one thing playing on a PC would help with.

And don't get me started on graphics.
The niche appeal of sites like GoG and Desura are what make PC better. Yes, Steam is great, but honestly, it is variety that makes PC a platform "better than consoles". On Xbox, you play games from the Xbox store. On PlayStation, you play games from the PlayStation store. On PC, you could get games from Steam - very much mainstream appeal there. Or, you could deviate - almost infinitely. Good old games. Indie games. Tech demo games. Non-games. Experimental games. Free games. Expensive games. Pay-what-you-want games. Humble bundles! Webgames!

PC as a gaming platform is superior for its choice. Consoles, of course, are free from the inanity choice often creates; PC gaming is complicated from the outset, since you have to choose what your PC is built from and looks like and runs on. Consoles are great because of the plug and play component (a component consistently diminishing due to installations and day-one DLC). At any rate, when comparing games library between systems, it's just kind of natural that PC does better. If nothing else, PC has the breadth of three decades worth of gaming history. If you started from DOOM and played through to Quake 4 it'd take years of your life. You'd never be able to keep up.

Breadth and depth is PC's strengths. Accessibility and affordability is consoles'. That's how it works.
 

The Madman

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Matthew Jabour said:
Oh, really? What else could fill Steam's shoes? GOG? That's niche appeal. Origin? I don't even think I have to debunk that.

And without Steam, I really can't think of much a PC can do that consoles can't in the way of gaming. The only PC games I own are on Steam. Do PC ports come with flowers and chocolates, or does a high-end PC shoot heroin into your arms as you play? Because, honestly, I can't think of one thing playing on a PC would help with.

And don't get me started on graphics.
Huh? What I meant to imply is that were STEAM to go down, another service would take its place in the market and fill the gap left behind in STEAM's wake, whether that be GOG or Origin or any other of the dozens of service providers I've no idea.

As for what PC's can do without STEAM... lots? It may seem ancient now, but I remember a time without STEAM. Hell, STEAM was crap when it came out and I was among those that rallied against it as unnecessary and pointless DRM being shoved into gamers faces through Half-Life 2. Since then STEAM has obviously improved considerably, but the point is PC gaming didn't magically blossom into existence because the mighty GabeN willed it.

A really easy example of why I consistently play PC games though, and why I would continue to even were STEAM to shut down? Sure:

Strategy Games

Boom, done. That was easy. Consoles got shit for strategy titles, it's a genre almost completely exclusive to the PC. Civilization 5, Europa Universalis, Age of Empires 2, Crusader Kings 2, Galactic Civlizations 2, Company of Heroes, Starcraft 2, Warlock, Heroes of Might & Magic, the Total War series, the list goes on and on, all exclusive to the PC (Which is unfortunate, I often wonder why consoles don't seem to have any real strategy market). Another example then? How about mods. Stuff like The Dark Mod, or STALKER Complete, or Fall From Heaven 2, or the literally dozens if not hundreds of player campaign created for games like Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2. I love that stuff! Then we've got niche PC indie titles like Frozen Synapse or Mount & Blade and I'm as happy as can be.

Consoles simply don't provide any of that, it's why I game primarily on the PC. Not because I dislike consoles or hold any sort of misguided loyalty, but because that's where the things I enjoy about gaming can be found.
 

likalaruku

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Yeah, tech demos can be pretty misleading. The two best examples I can think of are Aliens: Colonial Marines & the Zelda GameCube Proto tech demo at Space World 2000 that was scrapped & supposedly recycled into Wind Waker.
 

Mad World

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Matthew Jabour said:
Really? A keyboard? That is the cornerstone of your argument? The capability to have 50 buttons at the ready instead of 8? The control scheme is not a selling point - or even a bullet point. Mods, on the other hand, are a bullet point. You know what a selling point is? Zelda.
I disagree. It can easily be a selling point. I'd argue that it's a fundamental difference.

Anyway, I agree with reference to the tech demos. Developers need to really lessen the focus on graphics. Big time.