Escape to the Movies: Sucker Punch

ProjectTrinity

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0thello said:
cainx10a said:
0thello said:
I cannot take Moviebobs analysis of femininity or ?feminism' seriously. After his laughable attempt to easel bayonetta as some sort of revolutionary, I always squint my eyes so I am not forced to roll them ad nauseum whenever he misapplies critical analysis.

Honestly, just stop it. The squinting is giving me a permanent scowl.
Yet, a panel of Female Gamers did agree with various of Moviebob's points on the matter of Bayonetta. If this movie is supposed to be about girl power, good for them.

http://my.spill.com/profiles/blogs/sucker-punch-audio-review

Although these 'lunatics' think otherwise, I will make my own opinion of the subject after watching the movie.
Oh so a bunch of girl gamers agreed so that MUST make it true[end sarcasm]. That is a ridiculous sentiment.

Make your own opinons on the subject matter if you want, I support you on that. I saw this film, to me it was garbage, shiny, nerd-masturbation material that I felt was more insulting to my intelligence.
I think the point of his post wasn't to state what is true or what isn't true, but rather your opinion of Bob's views of Bayonetta is unfair based on your statements you've given us. If unfair was what you were going for, then by all means, don't mind us! I've yet to see Sucker Punch or play Bayonetta - but if I had to side with someone based on the actual information each side has given to back their opinions~ *Whistles*
 

IZRA

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I loved 300 and i loved watchmen, and sucker punch......sucked. i don't hate it and don't love it, but whats really sucky about is that while i was watching it i was thinking "why am i not enjoying this?". it basically had every element a movie should have for me to enjoy it: hot girls, guns, mechs, dragons, cool music, cool CG. and then it hit me. there's no character on the main characters, Rocket and Sweetpea are the ones that get more of personality. but if i don't care about the characters then i wont care about the plot. and the plot was simple. so simple that the moment that bit with the hammer lobotomy started i knew where the story was going to end. i think someone already mentioned here that the movie was "unsatisfying" and that's the word i would use to describe it. even Zack Snyder's direction fail to deliver, like he held back somewhat.

the movie also made remember this quote (oh god i cant believe im quoting George Lucas)



i also think this post basically pointed the films faults better than i could ever do



PortalThinker113 said:
MovieBob, we need to have a talk.

I love your reviews, I look forward to them every week. I watch them, I watch the Big Picture, and I generally am very interested to hear what you have to say. For the vast majority of your reviews, I couldn't agree with you more. I loved Scott Pilgrim to death, I adored Watchmen, Inception is one of my personal favorites of all time, etc and so forth. (And these are just the ones you mention in this review- I tend to agree with your opinion on a lot of things). This review, however, falls under that 1% that I so vehemently disagree with on almost every point that I begin to wonder whether you and I were watching the same movie. I just got back from Sucker Punch, and, in my opinion, I thought it was a complete load of garbage. This is my opinion, and you and everyone else who liked this film are entitled to your opinions. If you liked it, I'm glad you were entertained. However, I did want to share some of my thoughts on the movie.

Firstly, the film doesn't work as a serious movie. Zach Snyder is talented on many levels, but one thing he clearly cannot do is write an original script with any sort of pacing or drama. Every female character in the movie is a stock character stereotype that spouts dialogue that ranges from the hilariously awful to the simply cliche. (Except maybe Rocket- She was one of the redeeming points of this movie and I liked both her and her actress) The male characters are indeed stock, shallow figures who are overcome by the women, but I fail to see how the women in the movie are any deeper or more fleshed out than they are. I know some might disagree with me on this point, but I fail to see how making the women prostitutes "empowers" them or gives them strength in any way. Disregarding the dream action sequences, Baby Doll's entire plan boils down to her doing a sexy dance for a bunch of male pimps while her friends steal the items they need while the pimps are distracted. Not exactly empowerment there. When they go into the action sequences, they shed their slutty costumes in order to don the powerful, empowering garments known as? slutty action heroine costumes! Woo! I?m not saying they all had to be dressed in turtleneck sweaters or anything, but was that really necessary? The action sequences, meanwhile, come out of nowhere and shoot the serious dialogue bits to hell with giant explosions and random gratuitous fighting, creating tonal shifts so dramatic that I practically got whiplash going back and forth as the movie couldn?t decide on the tone that it wanted to take. They don?t flow naturally with the story at all and cause the plot to move forward in a series of jerking starts and stops, rather than having them integrated into the plot in any meaningful way whatsoever. The film clearly thinks that it is making some giant, grand statement about life and feels like it has to do so, but never bothers to actually MAKE that statement. The ham-fisted, poorly constructed writing and structure bring down any hope it has at seriousness.

Now, some might say in response to the above, ?Well, at least it can be a good action movie, right?? Well, it doesn?t work as an action movie either. The action sequences, as stated earlier, are so random and thrust into the story at various places that you don?t have the time or inclination to care about or appreciate them. We don?t care if these girls are fighting if A) We don?t care about the characters and B) the fact that each of these sequences take place in an entirely separate, unrelated fantasy world means that the characters will never, ever get hurt unless a clear indication pops up in the real world saying THIS PERSON IS GOING TO GET HURT NOW. WATCH OUT. EMOTIONAL DRAMA, COMING RIGHT AT YOUR FACE. Each sequence is a tiny, irrelevant chunk taken from the pages of better genre movies and video games; movies and games that construct a world around their battles and give each one relevance and context rather than just saying HEY ISN?T THIS COOL, GUYS? LOOK HOW COOL THIS IS! (It?s not a criticism, par se, but I lol?ed to see that the generic enemies in the WWI section looked EXACTLY like the Helghast from Killzone, and the enemies in the Lord of the Rings section looked, well, EXACTLY like the LOTR orcs.) And the sequences aren?t nearly as cool as they think they are. The PG-13 rating and a lack of true over-the-top camp really prevent there from being any really memorable kills or great action moments, adding up to an endless repetition of ?girl shoots, girl slices, girl kicks, lather, rise, repeat.? The World War I section, the thing I was most looking forward to in the whole film, was ruined by constant screwed-up camera work and SHAKY CAM. I ended up laughing at the movie far more than thinking how cool it was. But what really kills the action sequences is the overall feel of the film. Each one COULD be viewed on its own as a fun action sequence, and some general self-awareness or camp might have been enough to save this film, but Zach Snyder clearly wouldn?t have it. He wanted to make his grand magnum opus, and the serious parts and heavy tone of the non-action sequences prevent you from just turning off your brain and enjoying the action as Mr. Snyder tries to blatantly hammer in THE POINT regardless of whether there is actually a point or not. This approach could potentially work if the action flowed with the story, but the two are just two diametrically opposed to one another that they simply will not flow together, and by the end they both just grab their toys and go home without leaving us with anything memorable. If the movie had just allowed itself to realize how stupid the whole affair really was and tried to make itself a tad more campy and self-aware, it could have been a great action piece, but it tries to juggle too many balls at once and drops them all.

What really got me was the pretentiousness of the whole thing. Zach Snyder clearly seemed to think that he was making THE BEST MOVIE EVER, and if people didn?t see his piece the way that he wanted to, he wasn?t going to make any concessions for them. I?m prepared to give him a chance with Superman, as he has shown his skill with adapted material, but I sincerely hope that Christopher Nolan keeps him away from the writing table. The film just simply is not well-made regardless of the mindset in which you view it.
Wow, long rant is long. Sorry, but Sucker Punch really just didn?t work in any way for me. I respect your opinion, MovieBob, but I?ve said my piece.
 

0thello

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ProjectTrinity said:
0thello said:
cainx10a said:
0thello said:
I cannot take Moviebobs analysis of femininity or ?feminism' seriously. After his laughable attempt to easel bayonetta as some sort of revolutionary, I always squint my eyes so I am not forced to roll them ad nauseum whenever he misapplies critical analysis.

Honestly, just stop it. The squinting is giving me a permanent scowl.
Yet, a panel of Female Gamers did agree with various of Moviebob's points on the matter of Bayonetta. If this movie is supposed to be about girl power, good for them.

http://my.spill.com/profiles/blogs/sucker-punch-audio-review

Although these 'lunatics' think otherwise, I will make my own opinion of the subject after watching the movie.
Oh so a bunch of girl gamers agreed so that MUST make it true[end sarcasm]. That is a ridiculous sentiment.

Make your own opinons on the subject matter if you want, I support you on that. I saw this film, to me it was garbage, shiny, nerd-masturbation material that I felt was more insulting to my intelligence.
I think the point of his post wasn't to state what is true or what isn't true, but rather your opinion of Bob's views of Bayonetta is unfair based on your statements you've given us. If unfair was what you were going for, then by all means, don't mind us! I've yet to see Sucker Punch or play Bayonetta - but if I had to side with someone based on the actual information each side has given to back their opinions~ *Whistles*
Well whatever his point was, it was headlined by a fallacy. Some girl gamers agreeing with Bob doesn't legitimize what Bob said. It means some girl gamers agreed with Bob. That was my point.

As for Sucker Punch, you are free to side with who you want, but I'm not evangelizing, I don't think this film is worth that kind of effort.
 

SilversunFire

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Wow, this is a really big surprise. MovieBob once again sees how great a film is, despite how overwhelmingly terrible it is. I'll add this to my list of other "good" movies he has approved of recently (Red Riding Hood, I am Number Four).
 

Conner42

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Jul 29, 2009
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The Hero Killer said:
I've been looking forward to this movie since it was announced back at Comic Con and left the theater pleased. Speaking of which....does anybody know the name of the song that plays during the train sequence?
The song? "Tomorrow Never Knows" by The Beatles. Ha, when that song came up me and my dad looked at each other, smiling. It was a really pleasant surprise.

Well, I just saw the movie, and I kind of feel bad for dragging my dad and my brother to come along and see it with me. I really liked it, but I get the sense they didn't though(I know my brother didn't at least). I guess the feeling is going to go some time.

The action scenes were really creative, it had a cool art direction, and it had a cool sound track. It's got interesting ideas in this movie, though, my dad pointed out that a lot of this has been done before in older stories and movies. I guess this movie does kind of cater to a certain kind of audience, so, it is kind of hard to recommend this movie, because I've yet to find out which kind of audience it's going for. It's a cool movie though, and you should probably see it either way just to know which side your on.
 

Lionsfan

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Jan 29, 2010
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Sorry Bob but it's not that great. It's not as bad as others have been saying, but it's not this great amazing masterpiece. This movie is destined for the Bargain Bin in about a year or so. The soundtrack was pretty bad too, I don't want horrible covers of great songs I want the great songs. You can polish a turd all you want but at the end of the day it's still a turd
 

obisean

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Feb 3, 2009
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Spot on review Bob. Glad I watched it before I saw the RT score. Loved this movie.
 

370999

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SilversunFire said:
Wow, this is a really big surprise. MovieBob once again sees how great a film is, despite how overwhelmingly terrible it is. I'll add this to my list of other "good" movies he has approved of recently (Red Riding Hood, I am Number Four).
Be fair to him. He didn't say Number 4 was good but rather that he enjoyed it. They are not the same thing. And as a whole on that movie I agree with him. It was a inoffensive popcorn film, enjoyable but forgetable.
 

Whytewulf

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OK.. the movie was ok, not wow'd. I actually enjoyed the movie and it was visuall appealing, but something was missing.
 

stabnex

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Your review convinced me to go see this with some of my friends. They all punched me afterwards, and I no longer trust your opinions. Sorry, that's just what happened. And I agreed with them. This movie was a hack job.
 

Therumancer

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Okay, "Sucker Punch" is a good movie that falls short of being great and well received from two problems.


One I think it's presented very badly, actually too deep for a general audience, and that actually includes the general audience of nerd-dom nowadays. Listening to the review of "The Spill Crew" (which someone linked here) right at the beginning they talk about how it was a bad thing that they actually had to piece together what was going on with the back story, one guy either somehow managed to miss the first five minutes of the movie (or so he seems to claim) or didn't understand it at all and couldn't play "connect the dots" with what was going on without the prescence of dialogue. At the same time it's hip to knock anything that is promoted with sexy women at the moment, at least like this movie was, and I think there are a lot of people who are ripping it just for that. It's odd when I read reviews that insult it for being shallow spank-fodder, but also complain about the storyline, with the usual failing being on their part, as I had no real difficulty following this at all. Or more to the point, they are being deliberatly obtuse because of the eye candy, because anyone who has seen and been able to follow movies like "Dreamscape" or "Inception" should have no problems with this one at all.

The second reason involves a massive spoiler, it's one of those things that sort of blows a major point of the entire movie, but what it does right and wrong can't be really discussed without addressing it:


While both foreshadowed unsubtly, and even stated by narration at the beginning to some extent, the big "reveal" is that the protaganist of the story, "Babydoll" is not actually supposed to be the focus of the story despite everything being shown more or less from her perspective. What's actually going on in this movie is that God, has arranged events to free Sweetpea from the Asylum.

The dream sequences are not so much delusions, but as a sort of 'vision quest'. The one notable character in those visions, the girl's "commander" who does not have a real world counterpart is god. He also shows up later in person in the real world to save Sweet Pea
and take her away (at the very end).

It subtle, but one thing you should be picking up on is that Babydoll has knowlege that she shouldn't have, such as the specific things they need to escape, and "another thing she has to discover on her own" which is of course her sacrificing herself for Sweetpea who seems to be a minor supporting character up until that point.

The thing that prevents this from being a great movie, is simply that they never work any greater context to this into events. I mean what makes Sweetpea so important that God (or whatever omnipotent being you want to say it's supposed to be) is getting involved. What's more when you think about it he really screws some people over, three girls die and one is willingly lobotomized for this one girl? What's more given the "final destination-like" quality to a certain chain of events leading to the death of most of the characters, I
can't help but think it wasn't supposed to be a coincidence in a literal sense within the context of the story, once you realize where it was going.

It's also noteworthy that all of the bad guys also seem to wind up getting it in the end, EXCEPT for Babydoll's Father/Stepfather who was arguably one of the most deserving scumbags in the entire thing.

Also with the way the plot breaks down and a certain asylum manager being bribed, I was also kind of wondering why Babydoll didn't just tell him "Well you know Daddy just wants this because he doesn't want me to inherit the money. However if you help me turn him in I'll pay you twice what he's offering". I mean there are reasons why that might not work, but it's probably the first thing I would have tried. That's a minor quibble with the set up though. Nobody is claiming this is "Citizen Kane".

I understand the idea was to be deep, profound, and mysterious, and to try and surprise the audience with the final reveal about the purpose of the whole thing. I think the wrong desician was made in not going further with the reveals. Killing off the characters definatly gives the story some bite, and a sense of free will and jeopardy, but really the impression I walked away from this was exactly the opposite of what the narrater and storytelling was trying to present. I felt that without greater context, the entire thing seemed kind of pointless. We needed to know why Sweetpea was worth all of that.

What's more I'd think Babydoll would have been somewhat pissed to be goaded along with promises of freeom and then realizing "oh gee, the guy in my head brought me this far just so I can die" heroic self-sacrifice is one thing, but this does smack of manipulation.

I wonder if I'm the only person who didn't also think of Joan Of Arc while watching this movie.

All told it's a good ride, and the visuals are awesome and well worth seeing on the big screen. I look forward to seeing more of this style of cinematography and style of action down the road. I mean heck, you could turn the whole "steampunk World War I zombies" thing into a full fledged movie concept on it's own, divorcing it from all the "imaginative vision" stuff.

I think Zak is on the right track, but he has yet to create his magnum opus. Neat concepts, decent writing despite the problems, and a unique style of cinematography, but so far everything he's done has had it's problems, and his best work has ultimatly been based totally on well known properties developed by others.

Oh and for those who have been reading this far, I was kind of wondering if the mecha they were using was intended to be a triple referance. I know the bunny went along with the song "White Rabbit" they were playing, and that was cool, but I couldn't help but wonder it it was also intended to be a referance to a certain mecha bearing a picture of "Bun Bun" (from Sluggy Freelance) that appeared in John Ringo's "Posleen Invasion" books... of which he has written a ton at this point. There is just so much nerd fodder in this movie and what seemed to be intentional referances, that I was wondering how far that one was intended or if it hit even more buttons. Are there other rabbit logo mecha out there?
 

bob1052

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Moeez said:
And to hear a completely opposite opinion piece on Sucker Punch which is so entertaining, Sucker Punch goes beyond awful, to become commentary on the death of moviemaking [http://io9.com/#!5785590/sucker-punch-goes-beyond-awful-to-become-commentary-on-the-death-of-moviemaking].
It's worth noting that the entire comment section of that movie consist of people who say the movie and completely disagree with the reviewer.

The movie was great. The cinematography was incredibly well down. The opening scene alone was shot incredibly well. The soundtrack also went along perfectly with the scenes.

Everything flowed and made sense even down to the smallest details. I can't be arsed to write an analysis of the entire film but I will say I'm especially a fan of how the bosses (for lack of a better term) of each fantasy represented their surroundings so well.

Reading the review quoted above is almost painful.

A few possible interpretations are:

1. Insane people and sex workers are interchangeable.

2. Women can only triumph over adversity in their dreams.

3. Action movies spring from the imaginations of enslaved, mentally unstable prostitutes.
If people are able to miss the point of a fairly simple movie by so much than its no wonder they won't be able to like it. It's like saying: "I don't like Watchmen because the Comedian wasn't a very nice hero at all".
 

Prvt.Church

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May 14, 2009
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I have to disagree and say that I thought it was complete horseshit. Watchmen was great as was 300 but this was just plain bad and Snyder should let someone else do the writing.
 

TaboriHK

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I can't believe you tricked me into watching a two hour music video commissioned by Hot Topic, Bob. Shame on you. The film was absolute dreck.
 

Tucker154

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Jul 20, 2009
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Just seen this with my dad,and it was absolutely amazing! Its actualy the first movie in a long time that both agreed was great.
 

Ian S

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Aug 31, 2009
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Haven't seen it yet, but still want to (Saw Paul earlier this afternoon, though. It was great).

But I just wanted to come on here to report that Sucker Punch came in second place to Diary of a Wimpy Kid: Rodrick Rules, which made $24.4 million as opposed to SP's $19 million take. Ouch.
 

John Poling II

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Apr 3, 2010
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I LOVED this movie. Every metaphor in it was beautiful. I have never had a movie reach out and touch me. I have seen tons of movies, from the classics, to indie movies, and cult hits.... This movie reached into me and touched something no medium of media has ever done. I saw it 2 hours ago, and am still jittery with left over excitement.
 

SFR

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Mar 26, 2009
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I really enjoyed this movie, but I can understand why some people are having problems with it. Much of the plot was left to ambiguity, and why I liked it for its many possible interpretations, others may hate it for not giving a concise answer. Frankly, I think this movie is a lot like well written books, it's just the audience it's targeting isn't used to having to piece together a story or interpret a section of it as it actually isn't in the film.

I will say I wish there were a few more concrete answers here and there to not only develop the characters but also give a few explanations on how certain things are actually taking place in the real world. I also thought the action was missing something, but I don't know what exactly.

Actually, I said actually a lot in this post.
 

cross_breed

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Mar 22, 2011
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I'm gonna be honest Bob, I disagree with your reviews about 80% of the time. However, one point we've always concurred on is a favorable outlook on Zack Snyder. In all honesty, I'm a big fan of his. I think he's a great director. The obvious comparison is between Snyder and the late great Stanley Kubrick, but whereas Kubrick was a brilliant writer, producer, and director, Sucker Punch has proven that Snyder should stay firmly planted in direction. It's what he's good at. The reason I say this is because the direction in Sucker Punch is fantastic. Snyder does a good job at doing what he does best. The fight scenes and CGI are well choreographed, and the style is unquestionable. However, I encourage Snyder to never, ever pick up another pen. The writing, especially the dialogue, is just abysmal. We're talking Uwe Boll levels of unintended camp in the script. But, it's not just the dialogue. The concept is rather silly, and the morality is incredibly confused. Which brings me to another point. Is this a feminist statement or a sexy exploitation movie, Mr. Snyder, because you need to decide. These two are diametrically opposed to one another, and having both strikes me as wanting to have your cake and eat it. That is to say, the skimpy outfits make the feminism argument ring rather hollow, and the feminist undertones are sure to feel awkward to people who are only there to see the women's skirts fly up. Another complaint, the script has too many characters to properly develop them all. I'd much rather have two real characters that I care about than five mannequins that mean nothing to me. The characters really boil down to "The Hot One," "The Other Hot One," "The Slightly Less Hot One With a Personality," "The Hot One," and, of course, the ever memorable "Hot One." I can't say this is a bad movie though. There are some genuinely entertaining moments here. The fights are well choreographed, and as previously mentioned, Snyder's direction is, as always, brilliant. I'd say this movie has it's feet firmly in "meh" territory. I can't recommend it, but neither can I fully condemn it. However, Bob's review is just absurd in the way he presents the movie. I think Bob's problem here is that he seems to be mistaking nerd pandering for actual art, and he ends up coming off pretentious. He did the same thing in the Scott Pilgrim review. Now, between Sucker Punch and Scott Pilgrim, Scott Pilgrim was the superior movie, but here's the thing, Scott Pilgrim was fun. It wasn't deep, but it wasn't trying to be. It was just a nice, enjoyable, self-aware little film, and that's all it wanted to be. Sucker Punch has pretensions of feminist undertones but they really couldn't have been implemented any worse. They're just there enough to be annoying but not there enough to be the main point of the movie. Really, this film is just exploitation. Yes, it's pretentious exploitation, but it's still exploitation. Take it for what it is, or don't.