Escape to the Movies: Sucker Punch

osiris993

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Alright, anyone willing to trust Bob's opinion off the bat should take into account that pretty much anything counter culture thoroughly impresses him.

The truth about this movie is that the acting is absolute garbage on pretty much every single front. The characters make themselves painfully hard to associate with by being distant and shallow. Sincerely, the acting is inarguably poor. The absolute absence of a plot compliments the terrible acting. The central plot detail of babydoll killing her sister accidentally, is only mentioned twice. You'll find it difficult to get past the raw stupidity of all the good characters, who aren't even smart enough to erase a list of crap they intend to steal from a chalkboard (seriously, its 4 damn words, just commit it to memory). The combination of the factors lead you floating through the movie with almost no regard for anything occurring within it.

If you want to see attractive women committing acts of badassery then this is the movie for you. The cinematography provides a radiant beauty, and all actions scenes grab your attention. If you want actual plot and acting, this film is not worth your time in the slightest. I went in with the mindset of seeing little plot, but expect next to nothing outside of the action.
 

Squigie

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UberaDpmn said:
bob1052 said:
Aureliano said:
Minor secondary thought: as I had suspected I would, I had a lot of trouble telling the difference between Baby pre- and post-lobotomy.
Did you miss the part where she didn't respond to Blue's threats or his general talking to her. In every other scene she would tense up from fear and Blue fed from that, but in this last one Blue almost loses control of himself because he cannot get her to respond. By forcing her into the lobotomy Blue basically turns her into a foe he cannot beat.
To be honest you saying that just brings me onto another point which I thought did not make any sense; Why the the 'Orderly Blue' hated her so much. He had no reason to - the entire conflict was pointless. He was paid to get her lobotomised - she got lobotomised. I don't understand why he started freaking out at her by the end.
Did you not notice the bandage? Blue is the orderly she stabbed. What many people don't seem to really get, and what the Red Letter Media guys didn't get, is that what happens in the fantasies is a translation of what happens in reality. This was made rather apparent in the kitchen knife mission scene.

I'm not even sure what the entire movie was about either. I've heard 'It makes you question reality' floated about a lot, but that doesn't really hold any weight because the reality is clearly defined right at the start of the film and it's made painfully obvious whenever 'reality' is being broken.
The movie was pretty clearly about escapism. The rest I basically agree with. The only time I thought reality became questionable was for one part of the ending.

And by the end of the film you don't even see the real 'villain', her father (Or whatever he was) brought to justice.

On the whole the film ended on a massive downer, was extremely convoluted and had way too many pop-culture tie-ins (They did nothing to add to the film at all) to make the film actually seem serious.
Oh come on. Blue was already squealing as the police were dragging him away. How much closure do you think is truly necessary?

A downer ending was the best way to remain true to the beginning and the overall theme. The substance of the ending was sealed right as the fantasy began (like in Repo Men). Or maybe I just like downer endings.
 

LostTimeLady

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I was definately looking forward to this film when I saw this review and afterwards I can report it is every bit as good as Bob makes it out to be.

The music and art style presses a million buttons for me and the ending had me really moved, ie, properly emotional.

It reminded me a lot about a book I once read called 'Fearless' which has a similar plot except the fantasy dreams are replaced with a dystopia and it's a juvanile girl's prison not a mental asylam. And that's not a critaism, that book is amazing and this film is too.

I loved the layering of the dreams, the story in the Burleque house has the girl's both empowered and opressed by thier dancing and feminitiy while in the soldier dreams, the story has the girl's kicking ass for real. It's an interesting duality of empowerment.

Steampunk for the win! Go see this film!
 

Squigie

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UberaDpmn said:
Squigie said:
UberaDpmn said:
bob1052 said:
Aureliano said:
Minor secondary thought: as I had suspected I would, I had a lot of trouble telling the difference between Baby pre- and post-lobotomy.
Did you miss the part where she didn't respond to Blue's threats or his general talking to her. In every other scene she would tense up from fear and Blue fed from that, but in this last one Blue almost loses control of himself because he cannot get her to respond. By forcing her into the lobotomy Blue basically turns her into a foe he cannot beat.
To be honest you saying that just brings me onto another point which I thought did not make any sense; Why the the 'Orderly Blue' hated her so much. He had no reason to - the entire conflict was pointless. He was paid to get her lobotomised - she got lobotomised. I don't understand why he started freaking out at her by the end.
Did you not notice the bandage? Blue is the orderly she stabbed. What many people don't seem to really get, and what the Red Letter Media guys didn't get, is that what happens in the fantasies is a translation of what happens in reality. This was made rather apparent in the kitchen knife mission scene.

I'm not even sure what the entire movie was about either. I've heard 'It makes you question reality' floated about a lot, but that doesn't really hold any weight because the reality is clearly defined right at the start of the film and it's made painfully obvious whenever 'reality' is being broken.
The movie was pretty clearly about escapism. The rest I basically agree with. The only time I thought reality became questionable was for one part of the ending.

And by the end of the film you don't even see the real 'villain', her father (Or whatever he was) brought to justice.

On the whole the film ended on a massive downer, was extremely convoluted and had way too many pop-culture tie-ins (They did nothing to add to the film at all) to make the film actually seem serious.
Oh come on. Blue was already squealing as the police were dragging him away. How much closure do you think is truly necessary?

A downer ending was the best way to remain true to the beginning and the overall theme. The substance of the ending was sealed right as the fantasy began (like in Repo Men). Or maybe I just like downer endings.

Hmm, but I still don't like the film :p

I thought the metaphors (Y'know the dragon referring to the lighter (And the timed bomb referring to... err...)) were a bit too far removed to be easy to understand. And being hard to understand is never a good point in the films favour.

But that's just my opinion :I

P.S. I didn't think Repo Men was a very good film either... Maybe I just like to feel happy when I walk out of a cinema XD
Not liking it is cool. It's just that most of the films detractors seem to get lost in how the asylum is only shown in the beginning and the end. Sucker Punch does put in a concerted effort to only show what's absolutely necessary, like a Rashamon story without the final reveal, or The Usual Suspects. At least it's not a David Lynch movie.

On reflection, the ending is more bittersweet than a straight up downer like Repo Men.
 

Razhem

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Well, watched it and again it's confirmed how much of a hack you are. But I'm not surprised you find this "empowering" when you can't see the problem with Metroid Other M's story and how you tend to completely lose any critical sense the moment gazoongas are flapping in the screen.

As for the movie itself, it was a borefest that happened to contain 3 pretty awesome music videos. That's it, the characters are as compelling as dolls, the plot reeks of pretentiousness that pretends to be philosophical but just feels half assed. I mean good god, I was expecting fan pandering and it couldn't even fucking get that right. Also, protip, giving me the goddamn it's a dream twist and letting me know it in the first 15 minutes is shit, because at that instant it utterly killed me giving a damn about what I was watching, you call it "blurring reality", I call it dream sequence inside a dream sequence.
 

DSQ

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KingParappa said:
DSQ said:
Turkey Braveheart said:
I am so f-cking glad to hear someone likes this movie. When I heard the guys at Spill give it a Sum ol Bullshit my jaw hit the floor.
Off Topic:
I'm glad to see somone else likes spill, those guys arn't nearly as popular as they deserve. I've never met a bunch of guys so willing to get invoved with there audience. If i'm ever in austin i'm definatly going to one of their epic meet ups!
OFF Topic:

You're not going to Spilldotcon?
Off topic:

I can't, I live in the uk :(
 

karamazovnew

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Sorry for a long comment, but I think that this movie deserves my effort to write it. And I hope that it might change your bad opinion on the movie (if you've seen it already) or make you enjoy it more (if you're about to see it).

Really now, how come so many don't get this movie. It's all "Dreams inside dreams" for everybody. Goddamn Inception era... This movie is brilliant, not only an experiment on how to tell a story, it also has a message, a higher meaning and the entire movie is proof of the advice it tells you. The story is gruesome, because real life can truly suck for some people. It sucks in different proportions for each of us. In the end, regardless how miserable or happy you were, you'll die and stop existing. You fight this horrible destiny with whatever weapons you have, religion, hope. And you try to find magic in each and every thing you do. It's not fantasy, it actually borders on crazy. We choose what we want to see, what we want to know. We ignore the evil in this world, by choice. What would you rather watch today? A movie about a girl raped by her father, sent to an asylum where guards rape lobotomized girls? Or a comedy? We hide behind a mask, we assure ourselves that everything is ok and we interpret stuff we see so that it all fits in our rosy image of the world. Sure, from time to time we go see the Passion to feel sick for a few hours, but we only do that to scare ourselves deeper inside our safe heaven. And this is what the director asks you to do, find the magic, fool yourself, be as happy as you can be regardless how big a lie it is. And the entire movie is proof about how that works. He has a depressing story to show you, but he shows you in a way that's entertaining. He transforms a horror movie into a chick flick. You still know there are bad things happening somewhere, but it's still cool to watch beautiful girls and just forget the bad part, that's the whole point, no need to impress with fake tears, we know you got the story...

It's the same story for all of us, we're born, we go through good and bad stuff, we die. How I see my life is different than how others see my life and vice-versa. "Dude has beautiful wife and kids, nice home and good job and he's unhappy?! Idiot, if I had those things...". I actually have a friend that was raped and she got over it (never forget, never forgive, of course) and she's more sane and happy than a lot of people I know. And the movie is based on this perspective. You can't get inside the life of this girl, you can put yourself in her shoes. Maybe if you're a woman, but if you're a man... impossible. Why would you even try? The director knows that so he tailors the movie for you. "I have some bad news, want me to tell them in a funny way? What jokes do you like, knock knock jokes? Fine. Knock-knock, who's there?".

So he turns the asylum into a brothel, the kind I'd like to go to if I had the money. It's the same stuff underneath: no freedom, sexual abuse, violence, madness, all rolled into one. But it's something I can cope with. I'd rather watch girls dressed like hot hookers than in green hospital robes. Again, this isn't the world in which the girls escape their cruel life, it's your world, your rules, the viewer's. Everything that happens inside the brothel actually happens in the real asylum. The doctor for example, being a woman herself (the only women in the asylum's staff), is seen by the girls as one of their own, so, by extension, a prisoner herself, although with a higher status. Even though she's actually more powerful than the bad guy in the real world, they see him as the true boss. What do you see when you go by your old school? The nice principal? Or the guys from the other class who bullied you?

And then there's the dances. The doctor makes the girls relive their abuse so she can cure them. But surely that wouldn't be pleasant to watch. Screaming, throwing stuff. They almost like to to that, they can get back at the guards knowing that the guards can't hurt them. I heard movie critics say "Oh it's just a fantasy, they can't get hurt even if they get thrown through walls, how lame!". Smart, guys, real smart. For the girls (patients), the dance (acting crazy and violent) is their thing, the reason why they're there. If you don't dance, you're out. Think of it this way... if they're violent, the guards might think twice before asking them to give a blowjob. It's the only thing that protects them.

And now the dreams. While I would've loved to see Baby Doll give a sensual dance, the director said "Just a dance? How about I put her in a high school uniform and make her fight dragons with a katana?". Ok, let's see how that plays... And boy, it's awesome. Best action scenes I've ever seen, by far. I've watched a lot of action movies lately and all were a snoose fest. No matter how many cars blow up, it's boring. Actually the last good action movie I've seen was "300". If you're a girl or have homo tendencies, you might have complained about the Spartans' rock muscles. I didn't see those, what I remember are the shields, punctured by hundreds of arrows. Some might've said "Xerxes looked stupid with so many earrings". Maybe real Xerxese had just a gold bracelet, but you can bet the REAL spartans thought he was gay too for wearing THAT. And you can bet he seemed as alien to them, in his silk robes, as the 3m tall dude looked to you. You weren't supposed to like him, you were supposed to hate his guts, for whatever reasons, even just for looking weird. Same goes in this movie. You're supposed to see these crazy girls as feminine beings. You're supposed to hate the bad guy, although if it was a normal movie you'd just think "well, he did it for money, I can understand that, and she's cute, I'd rape her too if she were lobotomized". But here, you can't help hating that fu%^er. In the end, even though you were given what you wanted to see (or didn't know you did, but know you can't help watching some parts again and again and again), you were put deep inside the actual action, deep inside the minds of the girls, a more realistic and personal vision of the horror that's going on in the backstage.

It took me a while to figure out the ending (girl escapes on bus). But there was a comment on the movie that for some reason disappeared since, which was right on the money. The big sister followed her little sister to protect her, even though she didn't have problems with her parents (meaning that she wasn't crazy at all). That is why the main girl sacrifices herself to save her and tells her "it's your story anyway". But when she sees police at the bus stop, she enters a dream herself. Maybe they actually got her and took her back to the hospital. But she chose a different story. The bus driver is the guy we know from the dreams, it's insanity, a weapon she's now willing to use. This might actually be the only moment were the movie resembles Inception, because what's important is not what's real, but how you can morph reality in something that can keep you happy.
 

beefpelican

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Gxas said:
Ended up seeing it. Fucking amazing. The soundtrack was probably my favorite part, then the visuals.
The best bit was how the two worked together. Like in the WW2 scene, how the beats in White Rabbit transform into perfectly timed gunfire and explosions.
 

beefpelican

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UberaDpmn said:
bob1052 said:
Aureliano said:
Minor secondary thought: as I had suspected I would, I had a lot of trouble telling the difference between Baby pre- and post-lobotomy.
Did you miss the part where she didn't respond to Blue's threats or his general talking to her. In every other scene she would tense up from fear and Blue fed from that, but in this last one Blue almost loses control of himself because he cannot get her to respond. By forcing her into the lobotomy Blue basically turns her into a foe he cannot beat.
To be honest you saying that just brings me onto another point which I thought did not make any sense; Why the the 'Orderly Blue' hated her so much. He had no reason to - the entire conflict was pointless. He was paid to get her lobotomised - she got lobotomised. I don't understand why he started freaking out at her by the end.

I'm not even sure what the entire movie was about either. I've heard 'It makes you question reality' floated about a lot, but that doesn't really hold any weight because the reality is clearly defined right at the start of the film and it's made painfully obvious whenever 'reality' is being broken.

And by the end of the film you don't even see the real 'villain', her father (Or whatever he was) brought to justice.
I'm just going to assume that anyone this deep into the comments section is no longer worried about spoilers. But just in case, SPOILER WARNING.

The thing is, the reality defined at the beginning of the film is not necessarily really real. Consider the sequence towards the beginning, where it appears that the week has progressed and Baby is about to be lobotomized. That turns out to just be something that Sweet Pea is acting out. This is suitable, considering that she eventually ends up being the main character. This scene calls into question exactly how much of the "asylum reality" is actually real, as opposed to just in Sweet Pea's imagination.

Adding to this uncertainty, we never see what is happening in the asylum reality while in the brothel and the fantasy world the girls dance or kill monsters respectively. Was Baby actually doing a distracting sexy dance? Or was she just running around throwing a fit and causing trouble? It's never really shown.

As to the father getting justice, at the end as Blue is dragged from the room he shouts out things about being paid by the father to go through with it, so probably there will be some sort of court case. We don't see it, because, again, Baby is not the main character. Sweet Pea is.

This may seem like over-analysis, but it makes the movie much more fun and satisfying if there's more meaning to it. What do you think?
 

beefpelican

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karamazovnew said:
Dang, that's one heck of a first comment.

Anyway, I really like the points you made about the images in 300 and Suckerpunch being what the characters see, not reality. Reality is always less engaging that someone else's actual point of view. Another great example of this is in Black Swan, which is relentlessly from the main character's point of view and never bothers to stop and touch base with reality.
 

vasudean

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I went and saw this movie on my birthday and when I saw it, I thought of it as just flat out weird, but in a good way. Made me think of the LoZ and DMC franchise with a big heaping spoonful of Ninja Gaiden. I certainly enjoyed it.
 

Iwana Humpalot

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Is it actually that good? I though it was just strippers killing nazis. Thanks for the review, i hope it is as good as you claimed.
Gxas said:
SON OF A *****!!!
I was blown away when I saw German-steampunk zombies!!!
REALLY? I MUST SEE THIS MOVIE! SING ME UP FOR HELL YES!
 

hangman717

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I really dont understand i saw it it wasnt good there was barely a plot it was like the writer/director wanted to make four different movies decided there wasnt enough time so he shoved them together into and amorphous blob of shit and skimpy outfits
 

Tormuse

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Nov 18, 2009
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beefpelican said:
I'm just going to assume that anyone this deep into the comments section is no longer worried about spoilers. But just in case, SPOILER WARNING.
I suggest using spoiler tags. For example:

Dumbledore planned his death.

That way, people won't see the spoiler unless they click on it. :)
 

Amazon warrior

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*hauls quote kicking and screaming from middle of thread*

SW15243 said:
Singular criticism: The CGI in the movie, in spaces, has that shine on it that's just uncanny valley enough to be distracting.

Now, for what I came here for: I disagree with Bob's interpretation of the movie. Needless to say, MASSIVE PLOT SPOILERS WILL PROBABLY FOLLOW THIS. FAIRLY WARNED BE YE.

Also, bear in mind I saw the movie 20 minutes ago, and this hasn't had time to reorganize itself into something coherent. I also haven't read the comments, so it could be that someone has proposed this already.

Okay, hear me out:

The bulk of the movie takes place in the quarter second between spike-eye lobotomy start and spike-eye lobotomy end.

Babydoll is suffering from multiple personalities. Her own quote-unquote "Dominant" personality, and the four others - Amber, Sweet Pea, Rocket, and Blondie.

In my mind, Babydoll's real name is Amber (I didn't catch a name and didn't see one on the 'Female, 20' clipboard), who represents the kind of girl she was before this psychosis started. Amber, you'll notice, is largely the least depicted character in the film, delegated to a sort of passive supporting role. She's also the first thing to go after Rocket dies (explained why further down). The orderly also mentions that after a lobotomy 'she won't even remember her own name', which makes sense with the Amber part of her dying.

Blondie is where she was at immediately before being sent to the asylum, and during her initial first little while (Where she was silent at the start of the film). The scared little girl that becomes instantly willing to do anything when assured that doing so will make everything alright (As evidenced by her last line before she died).

Rocket's where she's at now, confident and assured that so long as their plan is carried out properly, everything is going to be fine for everyone. You'll notice that when this particular part of her dies, despite her best efforts, the rest start to die off too.

Sweet Pea represents an ideal. I guess if you want to get all Freudian, she'd be the superego (I think? I haven't studied psychology in forever). She's the cautious, moral part of Babydoll.

As the lobotomy and the movie progress (as the spike drives further into her brain) bits and pieces of her start to die off. Eventually, at the very end, the final nail in the coffin is Babydoll's 'death' at the hands of the High Roller.

When the doctor says that her eyes were strange, in that she wanted him to do it, it was her realization that by allowing this lobotomy to happen, the most important part of her personality (Sweet Pea) would be allowed to be at peace. She loses her awareness of her surroundings and doesn't have to suffer the torture of the asylum anymore. This is evidenced by Sweet Pea getting on the bus and driving off into the sunset past the sign that says "PARADISE Diner". Paradise for her is an escape from her surroundings, which explains why she wanted the lobotomy.

The doctors also mention that during her five days she lit a fire, stabbed an orderly, and helped another inmate escape. While that lends credence to Bob's interpretation, I feel like the deaths would have been mentioned if those had actually happened to real people. I feel like the events the doctors talk about are just manifestations of Babydoll's psychosis. You'll also notice that these events coincide with the events in which the five girls were told to 'work together to survive', in a sense that when all parts of her operated as a cohesive unit she was able to actively effect the real world around her.

Anyway...I'm really tired, and I hope that made sense. That's my take on it.
I didn't really see anyone respond to this post which is a shame because this is a very interesting analysis. Interesting enough to make me want to re-watch the film through this filter to see how it fits my experience. :) It would make the ending in some ways even more of a downer or more uplifting, depending on how you view the entry into "paradise" - I like the idea of that duality.

As regards SP in general, I tend to pay very little attention to reviews before I've seen/played/read something, so I was totally unaware of how much flak this film has caught so far (I tend to like to try and form my own opinions first, then see what other people think). I'd seen the trailer and thought that it could either be cool or dreadful, but decided I'd probably want to see it either way. I actually enjoyed it, though I won't wave my hands and claim it was perfect. Now I've read more widely and seen at least a small cross section of opinions and it's made me want to see the film again. Did I miss something? Is it actually awful and I just didn't notice? Or was I correct in thinking that it's got a bit of substance and depth to it?

In any case, I don't see how a film that creates this much debate can be classified as "boring", no matter what else one may say about it.
 

pearcinator

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I saw this movie last night...it was odd.

I would compare it more to Scott Pilgrim rather than Inception though...although the former is much more of an action-comedy where they live in an alternate realisty where all the weird game things that happen are responded with deadpan 'oh not again' from Scott.

Suckpunch on the other hand is the 'Gears of War' or 'Call of Duty' kind of deal in which it takes these things seriously even though its completely over-the-top.

I like over-the-top action movies...however, I like them even more when they aren't taken seriously (for example, the main character is like 'why is this shit happening to me again!' ala John Mclane/Bruce Willis from Die Hard).

For me, its hard to give an opinion on Suckerpunch...the action scenes were awesome and the characters were hot but it was like watching a live-action cartoon or video game and I have a feeling that it would probably have been less criticised if it were an anime cartoon or (more likely) a video game.

I would go and buy that video game...but games and movies are actually very different. I would have enjoyed the movie much more if it were interactive.
 

Jyggalag

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I was told that the first few scenes were nice because they were action packed and then the women started acting and it went downhill. "The story and everything was great, but the actresses made me cringe."

May I ask for a second opinion?
 

Stranger of Sorts

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Aug 23, 2009
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I honestly don't get the hate surrounding this movie.

It's a clever film, but it requires a clever audience. Sure, a bit of suspending disbelief may be needed but I'm not so up my own ass that I think that ruins the film. It's up to you to fill in the gaps, I think for some the recent trend of giving you everything has dmbed down your expectations.

Oh and when I saw it I didn't think it was an action film at all. It was, in the end, a melodrama. And a bloody good one at that. That's my opinion anyway.
 

Lunar Templar

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saw it last night
was weird, but i liked it
(edit) *scrolls you and reads Amazon Warriors quote* that actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it