Escape to the Movies: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Kids Deserved Better Than This

camazotz

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Jul 23, 2009
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Well, I may have to go see the Spider Man movies now because I swear the TMNT movie Bob saw was not the thing I saw. In my defense I have disliked everything ever done on TMNT since the original comic, so I was dragged to this movie expecting to be once again proven that the franchise sucks. Instead I actually liked the film (as did my wife who saw it with me, who loves all things TMNT) and many of Bob's comments unfortunately demonstrated severe bias....and an unwillingness to simply view the movie for what it is, rather than imposing a generation of TMNT nostalgia on it.

Let me add some examples:

1. the refined origin story made more sense to me than the original. It got rid of idiotic random chance and made it relevant. yes I know Bob hates it when everything ties in to one another, but it "worked" in this case.

2. Foot Clan still had a Japan connection, Shredder and his lady lackey were still "Japanese" at least in that special comic book way.

3. turtles were still turtles, just more teenage-like "bros" than the goofier "we are specifically targeting ten year olds" feel of prior movies.

4. Shredder's suit was very cool, and worked for me. Also necessary to make him a threat for the decidedly faster, stronger and more impressive moving turtles in the movie.

5. I found no confusion about the origin story, just extra layers of reveal as the movie went along.

6. Splinter was a perfectly decent animation, looked just like he did in the old comics. No freakin' idea what Bob saw wrong with it. None at all.

7. Was the real Shredder added in after fan outcry? No idea, but his appearance and style worked for me.

8. Megan Fox was fine. She did as well as I would expect any female lead in the same role to do, no idea why people love to hate on her so much (and yes I know about her F U comment, and frankly I can appreciate the sentiment).

Anyway.....I still hate everything TMNT, except for the original comic and this movie.
 

camazotz

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Shamanic Rhythm said:
Every review I've read of this has convinced me that it's far, FAR worse than I had ever expected it could be. Most of them point to it wanting to simultaneously be all Grim Dark Batman style and Cowabunga Dude Retro 90s, whilst having terrible acting, plot holes up the arse, generic action set pieces and worst of all product placement for Pizza Hut.

Just awful.
Nope, just turns out that a lot of people really want to hate on it. The movie is better than I would have expected for TMNT. That's a low bar by my book....I utterly despise this franchise....but I actually enjoyed it. Soooo.....maybe if one's into deconstructionism and irony the film will exceed expectations? I don't know, I really think nostalgia and Bay/Fox hate is driving this more than anything.
 

camazotz

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Lilani said:
Batou667 said:
Uriel_Hayabusa said:
I want to make one small remark regarding the racebending Shredder would have had if Fichtner had played him.

Is it really that big of a deal?

I mean, when there's similar outcry regarding movies like Argo I can understand it since it involved an existing person; but from what I remember being Japanese has never been a big part of Shredder's character.
I'm in the same boat. At best this raises a "meh" from me - Shredder never struck me as really being any distinct enthnicity back when I watched the cartoons, all you can see are his not-particulary-Oriental eyes and a bit of not-particularly-tanned skin.

The only really "Japanese" character in the cartoon I remember was Master Splinter, and that was in the most clichéd, "Ah so, Daniel-san" vein of stereotyping a martial arts master. Hardly a deep and accurate minority character worthy of "celebration"...

So yeah, I'm not surprised that Bob yet again noted this "whitewashing", but I'd have to ask - does it really matter every time? Especially when other characters in various movie/comic franchises are getting race-swapped and gender-swapped with some regularity now?
I didn't feel like Bob was criticizing the whitewashing so much as their slapdash way of fixing it. He explains much of the movie was already shot with the idea of that one dude being Shredder and only later in production did they make the call to make them two separate people, and this change was apparently painfully obvious in the final product.
It may have been obvious to Bob, but as someone who hasn't been following all this nonsense it wasn't obvious to me when I saw it.
 

Guilen-

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I saw the new flick, and I'm going to be honest, it might not have been a great or even particularly respectful handling of the source material, but your ignominious response to it reeks a little more of your distaste for the kind of people who would approve of it more than an assessment of the actual product itself. It really isn't the worst incarnation of the turtles, I mean, it's arguably better than the third flick. It reminds me how much you talk about how the 90s sucked... and you're very, very, very wrong about that. It makes me think of how much of the geek-o-sphere, as you call it, has to do with clutching to the worldview they are desperate to maintain as opposed to being genuinely interested in things that may live outside of a typical sense of popularity. I'd rather believe it to be the latter.
 

Lilani

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May 27, 2009
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camazotz said:
It may have been obvious to Bob, but as someone who hasn't been following all this nonsense it wasn't obvious to me when I saw it.
True, but that doesn't mean it's not there, though.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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camazotz said:
Shamanic Rhythm said:
Every review I've read of this has convinced me that it's far, FAR worse than I had ever expected it could be. Most of them point to it wanting to simultaneously be all Grim Dark Batman style and Cowabunga Dude Retro 90s, whilst having terrible acting, plot holes up the arse, generic action set pieces and worst of all product placement for Pizza Hut.

Just awful.
Nope, just turns out that a lot of people really want to hate on it. The movie is better than I would have expected for TMNT. That's a low bar by my book....I utterly despise this franchise....but I actually enjoyed it. Soooo.....maybe if one's into deconstructionism and irony the film will exceed expectations? I don't know, I really think nostalgia and Bay/Fox hate is driving this more than anything.
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/movies/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtle-movie-review-article-1.1895485#6bggXoMeMkz4aI7v.97
http://www.villagevoice.com/2014-08-06/film/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-2014/
http://thedissolve.com/reviews/979-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/
http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/review/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles
http://www.thewrap.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-review-michael-bay-megan-fox/
http://www.film.com/movies/review-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles

That's a reasonable chunk of people all saying the same thing: it's trying to be charming and gritty at the same time and managing to do neither. I'm more inclined to listen to the combined opinions of several respected film critics than assume it's all down to "haters gonna hate".
 

AsurasEyes

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I think you're overthinking the rape analogy Bob. That's Tumblr-tier levels of overthinking. Mikey's adoration of April was innocent, mostly trying to serenade her and dumb stuff like that, which wouldn't seem out of place in a kid's cartoon. Speaking as a fan of the original Turtles, they nailed their personalities perfectly, updating and modernizing them.

And on the whole Shredder got pushed aside to make way for William Fincher as the bad guy and got no screen time...you wanna know why that happened? Because people complained that the Asian character was being played by a white guy. If you had an asian guy play the role, those same people would have complained "STOP ENFORCING STEREOTYPES!" at them. You brought this up in your Lucy review, when Russian mobsters and Asian gangs are played by people with Russian accents and Asians, and you complained about the apparent "Exoticism and xenophobia".
 

spoonybard.hahs

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Lightknight said:
I'll personally admit that I far preferred the new Heimdall but I didn't really have any preference or knowledge of Heimdall from before. Samuel L. Jackson (or Lawrence Fishburne if I were to repeat that idiot radio show that confused the two with Samuel L. Jackson on the line...) is an amazing choice for Nick Fury. I mean, I'd heard of him and seen him in practically every cross over but I didn't really care about him or follow his story.

But let's be honest. These are generally not the big title characters. Shredder is. He's the main villain. How many people do you think had actually heard of Heimdall before that movie? How many non-comic book readers had heard of Nick Fury? These aren't the characters that have spread into larger pools of knowledge. These are niche characters that were ripe for changing come mainstream.

I'll grant that Shredder was also a little more specifically Japanese. What with the martial arts and teams of Ninjas it would be a little extra weird to make him a white guy.

Also. if white male wasn't the dominate actor in films and television, you'd have something of a point.
Wait, you mean in the US media where the US population is over 72% white (includes white Hispanic) that the majority of the actors are white too? I'm shocked and appalled, the nerve of them! [/sarcasm]

A fair world has proportionate representation. It does not give more representation to any group than its size warrants. You don't see me watching a Bollywood movie and complaining that there aren't enough white people. I get it, people are Indian there. They aren't being racist in casting the most common demographics they have there.
So, it's okay to change ancillary, supporting, and background characters just as long as the whites still maintain front and center? For no other reason than, "most of the country is white." That assertion only highlights the problem, that white people are only comfortable so long as a white person (and in the case of films, white men) are cast as the headliners.

The idea that "a fair world has proportionate representation" is pretty silly because it excuses obviously flawed social norms in favor of maintaining an ever-eroding status quo. And "white Hispanic" is a horrendously bad talking point when it comes tor race. Most who select it have no idea what to put on government forms (read: there isn't an option for their racial background) and most Hispanics choose it or white because their families have lived in the US for at least two generations. Even if they are 100% Hispanic.

Finally, using India as an example makes absolutely no sense. They don't count race on their census, but tribal heritage. India is not a salad/melting pot/Whitman's Sampler of varying races, creeds, and cultures.
 

twosage

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Oct 22, 2013
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The new Nickelodeon show really is pretty good. I was amazed at how well they developed and balanced the brothers' personalities, while keeping them from being irritating slogan-machines. I've only seen the first season, but damn, they finally got "Teenage" right.

As for all the rest of it, I just want Hollywood to stay away from my childhood memories unless it's Marvel Studios. No one else seems to know how to take established characters and stories ostensibly for kids and turn them into a genuinely broader experience for adults* while retaining the majority of the fun, and even they struggle to make it into a good movie half the time...


*To the extent that anyone is an adult nowadays. I mean seriously people, in an era that has produced some of the most amazing television ever like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones, why is so much of the movie industry centered around toy commercials?
 

BayouStalker

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May 31, 2011
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I have to say, that after watching Bob's review, and hearing all of the critical demolishing of this movie, I must thank all of the critics who panned the movie. The bar was set so low that it seemed like this movie was the antichrist, so after going to watch the movie with the lowest expectations possible, it turned out to not be nearly as bad as many stated it was. Was it great? No. Was Megan Fox her normal, horribly acted self? Yes, which makes me wonder what sort of deal her and Bay have going on. Was it terrible? Nope. Donatello was still a nerd as always, Michelangelo was still the hyper youngster, Rafael was still the Noble Prick Bruiser, and Leonardo was just as wooden as ever (Bland Cyclops Syndrome).

The focus of April O'Neil having a father who helped create the ooze was forced and completely unnecessary, but they did try to make it like an old turtles show. Which meant it was horribly cheesy. The biggest thing I have noticed, and the biggest complaint has been, it's not the first movie. It wasn't going to be the first movie. If you want more of exactly the same but new, just watch the first movie with a different language option to spice it up a bit.

That said, I can see why rose colored glasses mar the movie greatly, and I can see why people may not like the movie at all. It's Michael Bay so it's bad (Not speaking to you, Bob, on that note), Megan Fox had no right to be in the movie (This one I agree with). But it was a kiddy sort of doofy movie that to me capture the cartoon series fairly well. Stupid? Yes, but it was a cute, fun movie.
 

Citizen Graves

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NOOOOO! Shut up, you fat silly man in your fat silly chair talking your fat silly talk on the internet!
This new TMNT movie is great!!!! And I haven't even seen it yet but I am going to.
I'll even watch it 10 times on opening night. Because I'm a really real fan, unlike you and everyone else who hates on this mastarpeace of the cinematic.
I've watched all the cartoons and all the movies, I've read every piece of paper that has a turtle on it (and some of them were definitely NOT ninjas) but I don't care. I've been collecting the toys for years (well, I play with them in my basement where my dead parents let me live with them) and I will be so for ever until I die and beyond and anyway what was I talking about....????

Gotta' go buy moar TMNT toys and cereals and movies and comics and underwear and posters and more toys and this movie is great and some heroin.


Captcha: trickle down
 

Coruptin

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Jul 9, 2009
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GloatingSwine said:
Coruptin said:
you know, the movie might suck but i actually like the new designs
Then you need to get your sense of style checked.

The new designs are amazingly visually busy, there's shit all over the place that does not add any value to the designs at all, there are no strong outlines or contrasts, just indistinct fiddly shit covered in more indistinct fiddly shit.

Exactly the same problem as the bayformers designs.
eh, if it means i don't have to be a grump every time a childhood franchise gets rebooted or updated i'm kind of cool with it.
 

spoonybard.hahs

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tweedpol said:
Oh, Bob...
We tried to tell you you were right the first time about Michael Bay...
He's still right about how the audience makes it possible for Bay to continue to have a career. It's effectively an ouroboros of shit.
 

fieryhotaru

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I wanna know what Bob thinks of the 2012 Nick show, cuz in my opinion, it has a better plot than the original and the characters are fantastic.
 

GamerFromJump

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It's true, the current generation deserves a good Ninja Turtles. Unfortunately, the good Ninja Turtles is being delayed to god knows when because this is in theaters.

Yes, I'm saying the Nick TMNT is pretty good.
 

SandroTheMaster

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Master Taffer said:
I
faefrost said:
I like Bob and Doug. I would also suggest Jeremy Jahn's who's opinions seem to match up pretty well with what we aging nerdlings seem to enjoy. I find the aggregate opinion among them is normally pretty close to how I will find a movie.
I'll give him a look, thanks.
I know how you hated the TMNT one, but basically, this was Jeremy Jahn's review of it:

Megan Fox was functional, but that's it.
Shredder seemed tacked on.
The plot was sketchy.
But the turtles were spot on.
The action scenes were as good as shaky cam can be.
So, all in all, a good movie to watch drunk (basically a watchable with some good scenes to carry the rest in his rating scale)

Which is, without a single shadow of doubt, a much more even handed review than MovieBobs.

Also, so far I've never seem Jeremy Jahn cling to any particular movie. And never has he just opened the floodgates to a sea of bile and let it flow, dumping on anyone who disagrees with him. So far the most negative review I've watched was Transformers 4, and he was nowhere near the hatemonger Bob can become, mostly just taking the movie at face value and recognizing it for the happy meal it was. Ok to like, but not nutritious enough to subsist on.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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AsurasEyes said:
And on the whole Shredder got pushed aside to make way for William Fincher as the bad guy and got no screen time...you wanna know why that happened? Because people complained that the Asian character was being played by a white guy. If you had an asian guy play the role, those same people would have complained "STOP ENFORCING STEREOTYPES!" at them.

No, people complained that Oroku Saki had seemingly been turned into a white guy for no discernible reason. And since the Foot Clan and Oroku Saki are exclusively a criminal element (basically in the TNMT canon, replacing the Yakuza) from Japan it wouldn't have been the same thing because at that point it's about as controversial as hiring Italians for a movie about the Cosa Nostra. I haven't seen Lucy so I'm not sure if that comparison holds up, so fair play there if you're right.


Now, if William Fitcher had been Baxter Stockman, then I feel a lot of hand-wringing and wanking could have been saved and from what I read of the plot, probably would have made more sense.
 

GeeksUtopia

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Feb 26, 2011
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Finally decided to sit down and watch the movie. There were few, not many...or rememberable, action or comedy bits that made little to no impact. Megan Fox's overall acting just was filled with a gasp here and there mixed with poses that looks like she is posing for a magazine cover. The turtle cgi, looks good...from a distance. Majority of the screen shots from transition of scene to scene overly polluted with lens flares. The grand plan for the foot clan seemed lacking. Step 1: disperse toxin. Step 2: ask government for blank check to research for cure. Step 3: gain marvelous riches on cure that we already are in possesion of. Step 4:...how do we gain hold. Going on a pizza and tmnt marathon to scrub this from my memory. Not a pizza hut pizza mind you, a local pizzaria, something that didn't make a huge slap in the face product placement in the movie.