Escapist Dragon Age II Review, Is Something Wrong Here?

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Zing

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Oct 22, 2009
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I don't know how anyone can actually finish this game? What exactly is the incentive? I'm 14 hours into it and I've lost any track of any semblence of an overarching storyline. There's NO epicness to the land at all, you basically backtrack your way over the same places(which mostly look like shit, especially the outside levels).

The only improvements I've found is the dialogue system. It's far better, having moved away from "Choir Boy option" "Hitler option" or "Sweden option", also the combat does seem a bit more fluid. There's still no reason for me to finish this game at all, though. This is the first BioWare game to have failed so badly in the story department.
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
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Sacman said:
I don't say trolls but a rabid fan base... Come on even before the game came out people already hated, why? because it looks different and plays different it's a step away from the basic formula that the fans enjoyed and that scares them, not because the game is bad but because it isn't the same game... let me quote Yahtzee, "Fans are clingy, complaining, dipshits, who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make..."
This is the main problem with taking the complaints seriously and the accusations of anybody hating it being "trolls". If you could metacritic the game before it came out then the results we are seeing would be almost identical because a lot of people were downright determined to hate it before it even came out.

The problem I see with this is that a lot of the complaints made were over things that Bioware never pretended wouldn't be in the game, things such as the dialogue wheel and the fact that most of the game would be set in Kirkwall were confirmed a long time before release so complaints about that are only valid to a certain extent.

The only valid complaints that I have heard are that the auto-attack isn't on the console version despite them saying as little as hours before the release date that it was, this was a blatant falsehood on Bioware's part as they knew that a lot of people were extremely unhappy with the idea that it wouldn't be included and had been promising users that it was. The fact that they didn't officially announce that it wasn't as soon as they knew shows deliberate misleading.

The other are things such as DirectX11 or whatever it is not working correctly, as that kind of thing should be okay as standard, unless you specifically state that it isn't.

The other problem is when half of the "review" is Bioware/EA bashing and irrelevant to the game itself, it makes it extremely hard to take seriously. Criticism of the company that made it is one thing, but it shouldn't take up anything more than a footnote of the review itself.

ZephrC said:
*snipped for length*
Exactly, and thank you.
 

ZephrC

Free Cascadia!
Mar 9, 2010
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Wow, seriously? First of all, he gave the game 5/5 stars, not 100/100. Metacritic may count those things the same way, but they obviously do not actually mean the same thing.

Secondly, Dragon Age II is clearly not what the raging fanboys wanted. They're the ones all butthurt, and they're the ones who are most likely to be giving user reviews on Metacritic. It sucks that they didn't get what they wanted, but it has most certainly unfairly skewed the average user rating. The critic rating is actually pretty decent. No match for the first game, but certainly respectable. I think that's a much better indication of how good the game is right now.

Thirdly, why would you even bring up the idea of the review being bought off? That's just straight up stupid. One gushing review about a game that's only overall considered to be good, not great, by most critics that isn't even being advertised on the site is basically zero evidence in favor of that opinion. Yeah, you have some pretty good points in favor of the review being bad, but there's nothing indicating it was bought off.

Seriously, the best you could come up with is mentioning the bit about the auto-attack not working. Okay, so he clearly didn't do the research on that point, but is it really so hard to imagine that he read about that being in the game and just didn't double check because he didn't use it?

And honestly, can you seriously not figure out how a game might have good graphics (especially in comparison to Origins, which was pretty much universally blasted for having quite bad graphics) and still have mediocre textures? Do you really think texture resolution and graphics are completely interchangeable? You've maybe never heard of art design or polygon count or things looking good from a distance or lighting effects or any of a bazillion other metrics for measuring graphical quality that have nothing to do with textures?

Basically you have a couple valid but minor complaints about an above average review of a game you don't like and you're trying to make it seem like all journalistic integrity has been thrown out the window because of it. A couple fairly minor factual mistakes and a few subjective things you disagree with aren't the apocalypse.

Actually, as far as I can see there's no real indication in this thread that you've even played the game. Have you? Not that you have to to have an opinion on the matter, but I'm kind of curious why you care so much if this review didn't cause you to immediately run out and buy the game.

I personally haven't played enough of it yet to say whether or not I like it better than the original, but I can say for certain that I'm having fun. Quite a bit of it, in fact. When do I get my check from EA, 'cause apparently that means they bought my opinion? Oh I'm sorry. That really only means some people say EA bought me out, but you think they probably didn't.
 

Sacman

Don't Bend! Ascend!
May 15, 2008
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Legion said:
Sacman said:
I don't say trolls but a rabid fan base... Come on even before the game came out people already hated, why? because it looks different and plays different it's a step away from the basic formula that the fans enjoyed and that scares them, not because the game is bad but because it isn't the same game... let me quote Yahtzee, "Fans are clingy, complaining, dipshits, who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make..."
This is the main problem with taking the complaints seriously and the accusations of anybody hating it being "trolls". If you could metacritic the game before it came out then the results we are seeing would be almost identical because a lot of people were downright determined to hate it before it even came out.

The problem I see with this is that a lot of the complaints made were over things that Bioware never pretended wouldn't be in the game, things such as the dialogue wheel and the fact that most of the game would be set in Kirkwall were confirmed a long time before release so complaints about that are only valid to a certain extent.

The only valid complaints that I have heard are that the auto-attack isn't on the console version despite them saying as little as hours before the release date that it was, this was a blatant falsehood on Bioware's part as they knew that a lot of people were extremely unhappy with the idea that it wouldn't be included and had been promising users that it was. The fact that they didn't officially announce that it wasn't as soon as they knew shows deliberate misleading.

The other are things such as DirectX11 or whatever it is not working correctly, as that kind of thing should be okay as standard, unless you specifically state that it isn't.
You sir, are extremely level headed... and have shown a level of sound judgment and restraint I have yet to see on this thread... especially, among my posts... you shame me... I would continue my words of praise, but being from the U.S., I have obviously been educated on a botched education system and thus have a limited vocabulary and a poor understanding of the English language... but that is a discussion for another day and perhaps another thread...

ZephrC said:
Words N Shit...
and you too...
 

drunken_munki

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Nov 14, 2007
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Common sense...

"Read these comments The majority of the people played only a couple hours of this game before realizing that it wasn't worth it to invest anymore time into playing something like this.

By proof of contradiction, I will show you why this game doesn't deserve anything above a 5.

Suppose, that the true rating of this game was actually 90+ as rated by PC Gamer, then it must be the case that this would be:
*The best RPG ever
*The biggest and most interesting towns that you ever seen in RPG
*Many player choices with consequences on the story.
*Well written story that will make your eyes wet many times
*Much more attachment to companions, more so than any of DAO. etc.

But anyone who has played the game will see that:
*Not by a lightyear
*What?
*Im hungry
*lol
*Nope

And there you see by proof of contradiction. Thus, 0/10 "

*oh, quoted from a review on MC.
 

drunken_munki

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Nov 14, 2007
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green_dude said:
danpascooch said:
Escapist reviews are often statistical anomalies, remember the Black Ops review?

I think its more likely Greg Tito just rated the game on what he thought about it, rather than trying to guess the average score like most other reviewers.
Hmm not quite?

Edge magazine gave a good review of a poor game, without even mentioning the disparity from the DA:O to DA2. On its own merits, it flops as a triple A budget RPG. So given that, it is more like a 5-6 / 10 game. Now throw in the fact that a lot of Bioware fans and RPG fans were keen and excited on playing a game that they were accustomed to seeing. With depth and character. Yep, you enrage and upset a lot of fans. Now you can call them what you like, but what are you without your fans? What exactly are you? A money sucking leech?

Please can someone explain whats the point in trashing one set of fans to replace them for another set? You can't make EVERYONE happy. That is a fact of life. So why bother? They could have made this dumbed down crass game and called it something else. There you go, that mass market can eat it up.

Fuck em. Another developer will swoop in and woo the people, and create a deserving game to receive high acclaim, that is EARNED. Bring on the competition, there isn't much you have to beat here...
 

DazBurger

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May 22, 2009
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GUYS! Stop that... Its silly...

Why are we discussing reviews when theres a FREE DEMO on Steam?



... So instead of reading reviews of biased people, play the damn game!.. FOR FREE!
 

omegawyrm

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Nov 23, 2009
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If I was rating on a five point scale, I would have given Origins a 4/5 because I liked it a lot, but the incredibly broken and frustrating combat and constant glitches drug it down a lot for me. The DLC was pretty lame too. So far, after more than 30 hours of the steam version of DA2, I've not encountered a single glitch and not once been frustrated by a fight that seemed unfair. And I like having a voiced character because I feel like I attach to the personality I choose more. I like the fact that it's more linear. I like the more centralized setting and the fact that inventory and gear management have been cut by about half. So I think it's an improvement in every way according to my gaming tastes and would give it a 5/5.

I assure you I'm not being paid for saying that.
 

Xaio30

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Nov 24, 2010
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I played Dragon Age 2 for about 10 hours yesterday, and i could summerize it all with "Almost Mass Effect".

The slightly longer description would be: DA:Origins with the Mass Effect 2 game engine but niether as immersive or pretty as either of them.

I like the game, but Bioware has let me down.
 

Susurrus

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Nov 7, 2008
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I think more interesting than eternally citing the User Reviews is a quick glance at the Critics Reviews.

PC Reviews:

Dragon Age Origins for PC has a metacritic score of 94, with only 13 reviews out of 67 giving scores of less than 90%. There is only one score giving less than 80% (a 70%).

Dragon Age 2 for PC has 11 reviews at a mark below 90%, out of 16 critics - with approximately 1/4 of the reviews, Dragon Age 2 for PC has only two fewer under-90% ratings than Dragon Age 1 did.

6 of Dragon Age 2's reviews are 80% or lower. 7 of Dragon Age 1's reviews are 80% or lower.


XBOX reviews:

24 of 34 reviews of Dragon Age 2 cite a score of less than 90%. 6 are 70% or lower.

30 of 68 reviews give DA 1 a score of less than 90%. Only 2 are less than 70% (one of them is notably at 50%, a good 10% lower than for DA2)

PS3 Reviews:

19 of 41 reviews for DA 1 score below 90%. 3 are 70% or lower.

14 of 23 reviews of DA2 give a score below 90%. 4 are 70% or lower.


I've deliberately focused on numbers, rather than % of reviews, because otherwise it might be easy to argue that the lower number of reviews is not yet representative, and that the reviews submitted were merely outliers.

Perhaps significantly, the XBOX360 currently has the highest rating (100% courtesy of The Escapist) - 94 and 91 are the highest for PC and PS3 respectively. Dragon Age Origins has numerous 100% reviews across all platforms.


Conclusion: DA2 has not been anywhere near as well critically received as DA1. New art direction, story-telling and reduced RPG elements have not been a success.
 

Xaositect

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Mar 6, 2008
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I take claims that reviews arent paid off as lightly as claims that they are. Really until some massive controversy exposes it, I guess well never know.

Either way I thought the escapist review was a woeful piece of "video game journalism" regardless, something all too common (they were like dog shit when ME2 came out: they were everywhere). Just spent far too much time wanking off way too enthusiastically over the game to be taken seriously, and brushing aside any of the games faults.

Giving a game with such an appalling reception that DA2 has had a perfect score just stinks. Maybe not of bribery, but certainly of stupidity. The time for 4chan raid excuses is past now. DA2 has officially received an appalling reception when taking into account the nature of the title. With all the marketing and everything, the publisher and the developer hyping it up as a AAA title, to receive this much hate: I guarantee those that arent in flat out denial in Bioware like the lead writer will be squirming uncomfortably for sure.
 

Christemo

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Jan 13, 2009
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im 2 hours in so far, and the only issue i have is that the Preorder 2-handed sword melts everything like an executioners axe through melted butter.
 

Eisenfaust

Two horses in a man costume
Apr 20, 2009
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Mcface said:
Well he said DA2 looked like it was from 2002..

but I agree, hes either a massive fan boy or they paid someone something.
Probably all that there ad space.

But now we are criticizing someone, we will probably be banned. It's dangerous to voice yer opinion 'round here.
he actually said that origins on console looked like something from 2002, wheras DA2 is much better...

personally i don't see why everyone thinks it sucks... sure, they removed a few things (companion armor customisation for one) but i can understand why the did (same as removing the mass effect 1 inventory system) - make it more approachable, etc

and OP: the whole "dangling in front of your face" thing is probably based on the differences between the stories... but for a few sidequests, all major action in DA2 was motivated by the darkspawn... that was the grand, overarching goal, made obvious from the get go and clearly the (main) focus of the story, with everything else working up to it... whereas in DA2 you don't technically HAVE to rid the mine of dragons, to use Greg's example, and there are a lot of things you can simply ignore, so choosing to do so does, somehow, feel more meaningful. sure, you didn't have to do these things in origins either, but the overarching plot was still there, waiting. i know that sort of sounds like i'm in favor of RPG's without overarching plots, where all you do is odd jobs for 10 hours, but it's more than that... ideally they'd be a mix of both overarching plots and odd jobs, some slightly related in the long run, some completely unrelated, and i sort of see that DA2 accomplishes that as per the framing of the story ("ooooh he's the champion! WORLD WAR!!!! but hoW!?") where you vaguely know what the endgame is (as opposed to "here is this army. defeat this army" - i suppose that's vague as is, but... come on, how many ways can you defeat an army?).

but if you undoubtedly hate the game in comparison to Origins, at least see it as a learning opportunity for bioware and the development of mass effect 3

your problem might also be assuming it was just going to be a "more of the same" game, just DA:O with better graphics and a different story, as opposed to the completely different type of story (world-changing v personal) that they told us they were making pretty much from the get go... dunno
 

Hawgh

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Dec 24, 2007
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drunken_munki said:
green_dude said:
danpascooch said:
Escapist reviews are often statistical anomalies, remember the Black Ops review?

I think its more likely Greg Tito just rated the game on what he thought about it, rather than trying to guess the average score like most other reviewers.
Hmm not quite?

Edge magazine gave a good review of a poor game, without even mentioning the disparity from the DA:O to DA2. On its own merits, it flops as a triple A budget RPG. So given that, it is more like a 5-6 / 10 game. Now throw in the fact that a lot of Bioware fans and RPG fans were keen and excited on playing a game that they were accustomed to seeing. With depth and character. Yep, you enrage and upset a lot of fans. Now you can call them what you like, but what are you without your fans? What exactly are you? A money sucking leech?

Please can someone explain whats the point in trashing one set of fans to replace them for another set? You can't make EVERYONE happy. That is a fact of life. So why bother? They could have made this dumbed down crass game and called it something else. There you go, that mass market can eat it up.

Fuck em. Another developer will swoop in and woo the people, and create a deserving game to receive high acclaim, that is EARNED. Bring on the competition, there isn't much you have to beat here...
Or they rated a game as they saw it? You claim that the game is poor, but you've not offered a single reason for doing so. Your previous post was nothing but flamebait, and I'm worried that I'm just handfeeding the troll here. But dammit, show your work!
 

Susurrus

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So your ideal game would be overarching plot, with odd jobs that vary in their relatedness to the main plot?

So for example, a main plot that threatens invasion by a host of darkspawn. Subplots which address
i) Betrayal of a king in a battle vs. the darkspawn host
ii) Rescuing dwarven merchants and defeating bandits on the road.
iii) Aiding one or other party of thieves within a city, culminating in a war between thieves guilds?
iv) Tracking down a nightmarish creature that has been steadily wiping out adventurers by setting careful trails for them, then ambushing them in ways that make them disappear.

Which would surely be objectively better, by the standard you set forth, than a game where the overarching plot is near-nonexistant?
 

AndyFromMonday

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Feb 5, 2009
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I actually do believe the reviewer was paid for his services. I mean seriously, did the man even bother analylizing the shortcomings of the game? Did he even play the game? From that review it seems as if Dragon Age 2 is the best game to have come out this generation which I don't think I have to tell you is false. Criticism was nonexistent and when there is no criticism something fishy is running about.
 

Sonic Doctor

Time Lord / Whack-A-Newbie!
Jan 9, 2010
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danpascooch said:
Zaik said:
You keep citing metacritic user reviews, but you know I could put 5-10 of those up an hour if I wanted to, right?
Sure, and you would put up 5-10 out of over 1000

It's not all trolls, the denial has to stop, when's the last time Game Informer has given an 83 to a major Bioware RPG? It's not a coincidence that it's scoring badly, it's not a paradox, the universe is not imploding, it's just not very good.
Okay there are a little over 1500 ratings at Metacritic

But still, if you had taken any kind of class that taught what makes up a proper sample to determine information, you would know that a little over 1500 is not a good sample to determine stats from a few hundred thousand people or more. A reasonable sample would be in the 25,000 range at least.

I haven't seen one complaint about the game that can be placed in the fact column, which from what I have seen of the user reviews on Metacritic and some of the comments on here, people are acting like their opinions are fact.

On top of that way too many of the poor raters are giving the game a 0 or 1. Those are scores that reflect a game that is totally unplayable and not even by opinion standards. The only time a game should get that low a score is if the game had total game breaking glitches where one would have to start from the very beginning of the game to try again and then it breaks again. So under that I'm going to count all 0's and 1's as trolls, even 2's are under speculation. Heck, most of that weren't even going by the standards you put in your opening post criticizing Greg Tito. Most of them are just throwing out obscenities saying, this was bleep, that was bleep, or the even less creative just plain the whole game was bleep. Did they give any reasonable explanation of why whatever part or the whole was bleep, no.

What I wonder is have you played the game yourself, because all I saw in your first post was the criticism of Greg Tito, but nothing to back it up but the low user review scores and a couple other reviews.

Be really, never in my life have I ever trusted a review, especially not the fanaticism of people on the internet. If I did I wouldn't have the awesome game collection I have today that I enjoy. If I had, I wouldn't have pre-ordered Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, I would have missed out on one of the best gaming experiences I have had in years.

Now I and all my friends pre-ordered DA2 to get the Signature Edition. From what I have played of the game and from what I have seen of my friends playing of it(spent the night at a friends house, we all brought our TV's into the living area and played, three people playing it at the same time), everyone of use was laughing and having fun. The game gets a 10 out of 10, and my friends would agree with me. Now I didn't play it the whole night, I like space out my playing and switch off and games going back an forth, but the two friends that were there that day and night, played around 3 hours straight, stopped to eat, and played for another 8 hours straight. I stayed the night and when I got up the one friend whose house it was, was already up and playing more, I stayed for another 3 hours while he played. His words were, "This is amazing, I can't put it down."

Now my 10 out of 10 opinion is based off of several things.

Dialogue: This is the biggest improvement. It isn't exactly like the Mass Effect dialog wheel but it is similar, and that is a very good thing. It is easy to tell where the dialog might go with what I choose. Instead of sitting for 2 or 3 minutes or more making choices on what to pick in the dialog like I did with DA:O, I can quickly pick the choice I know I want and the dialog can move fast and the game can stay at a nice steady pace. It relatively removes the "make a choice and then go back to an old save syndrome" like I did with DA:O because I didn't like how the conversation came out.

My friends and I laughed our asses off at the joking remarks that have been put in as the neutral choice in the dialog that gives a more entertaining choice if you don't want to be good or evil.

And on the random side things that party members say, the Cheers joke that Varric makes in the bar is one of my favorite things so far. I love it when creators throw shout outs that usually only the older crowd would understand.

Graphics: The game is no Castlevania: Lords of Shadow in this department but it is definitely not as one 0 voting trolls on Metacritic put it, "The graphics look to be from 2003" From what I looked up the games I use to play back then, the graphics of DA2 are 500% better. Back then in games of 2003, I could barely make out what faces looked like, there was absolutely no smooth curves to the graphics, very straight lines and pointy edges. To get smoothness and expressions in games, it had to be cartoon-like, usually cell-shaded, like Legend of Zelda Windwaker. Some would point out Ocarina of Time, but even that was cartoon-like in my eyes compared to today's standards.

But still, people from what I can tell didn't complain about DA:O in this department, but then people complain about DA2's graphics, when they are an improvement. I really can't count that as an opinion, because I have seen looks and movements of the face and eyes that I never saw in DA:O. The facial movements are more fluid.

Combat and Leveling: Combat is faster paced and just more fun because of it. Special abilities recharge much faster in DA2 than before. My guy can actually run in this game instead of what I would call a "sort of fast walking" in DA:O. A movement to get around and behind an enemy or get out of range of an enemy in DA:O use to take 10 to 15, sometimes more seconds, and other times it couldn't be done at all. In DA2, it can be don in 5 seconds, sometimes less. I'm glad that they didn't put in an auto attack mechanism, and if they ever update it in, I will turn it off. I want to be in control.

The decision making on how to choose stat placement when leveling is easier because the descriptions are a little clearer than last time about what stat effect what. I love the tech trees that give a wider variety to chose from than in DA:O. I also don't mind that they changed the stat for lock picking for rogues to cunning instead of dexterity.

Characters: I finding that many of the DA2 characters have just as much depth if not more than the one from DA:O. I definitely like few of the characters more when compared to characters from DA:O. Just compare Isabella from DA2 to what she was like in DA:O, that would even bring us back to the graphics debate and show the graphics are definitely quite close to first rate in DA2. Varric is hilarious and all around likable.

That is all I have to say for now, I believe it is enough. Dragon Age 2 is a great game in my opinion. Though there will probably be people trying to refute my opinions with their opinions, but it won't mean anything.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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After watching the video the graphics do not look amazing and this one thing I have a problem with. The character's eyes look like abosulte arse as well as the hair. The only thing I really didn't like about the review was I didn't really feel informed about the game. Although I thought RPGs were supposed to be epic.
 

Sonic Doctor

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Jan 9, 2010
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AndyFromMonday said:
I actually do believe the reviewer was paid for his services. I mean seriously, did the man even bother analylizing the shortcomings of the game? Did he even play the game? From that review it seems as if Dragon Age 2 is the best game to have come out this generation which I don't think I have to tell you is false. Criticism was nonexistent and when there is no criticism something fishy is running about.
Every so called "shortcoming" I have seen people point out, are opinions not fact. Could it possibly be that Greg Tito actually liked the game a lot and thought any problems were minor and that it deserved a 5 out of 5? Yes and I see that as more believable than bribery.

Now I already pointed out the reasons I gave the game a 10 out of 10 on Metacritic in my post just before this one.

Now tell me what you consider "shortcomings" and bring me proof that they are fact and not just "in your opinion".

Because really, reviews are just that, opinion, not fact, unless there is mention of bugs(example: the spinning head bug from the beginning of Fallout: New Vegas).

Edit: And the saying that you are telling people that it is false that "Dragon Age 2 is the best game to have come out this generation". That is an opinion and not fact. I think it is the best thing to come out this year and in the top of this generation. Like your point it is an opinion as well.

Just because you say something is bad doesn't mean it is bad, it is just as likely that there will be a person like me that thinks said bad thing is great, and it doesn't mean that I am wrong, because it is my opinion.