Escapist Editorials: A Bug By Any Other Name

[Dastardly]

Honestly? Brand loyalty.

(snipped, but I did read the whole post)

This one can work against a game just as often, though. Loyalty can bring with it forgiveness, but it can also bring very specific expectations (read: demands). That can make disappointment both easy and powerful.

As for Skyrim, I've never played a single Elder Scrolls game, yet I find myself with the same feeling of loving forgiveness toward any bugs or glitches or crashes (just about to beat a dragon, and BOOM desktop!)

I just feel there has to be something beyond brand loyalty. As mentioned in my reply to Susan above, I think it has to do with how contiguous the experience is supposed to be, or how many connections are left for the player to make. If the game is supposed to connect all the dots, any interruption cripples the whole experience... but if the player is supposed to connect the dots themselves (in the meta-game), disruptions aren't nearly as destructive.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

What bugs were in Alpha Protocol? I've played through it twice and haven't found a single bug.

 

[mjc0961]

See, the "big game" thing doesn't cut it for me with Bethesda anymore. The problem is the crappy engine they keep using. And what do they do about it? They just keep using it and making the games even bigger, meaning the games will eventually run even worse. They simply don't seem to give a shit that they keep releasing broken game after broken game. Even I can forgive that a few times, but there comes a point where you expect them to sit down and get their shit together for the next game. Skyrim was their chance to fix it, what with all that talk of a new engine. But instead, they just slapped a new coat of paint on the same shitty engine Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Fallout New Vegas used and released yet another game with the same issues. So screw the Elder Scrolls, screw any future Fallout games they make on this "new" Skyrim engine, and screw Bethesda.

Bethesda is an abusive significant other who keeps beating you and promises to treat you right this time if you just give them one more chance. Some people are still willing to believe that things really will change this time and come back, and others have realized that things will never change and have given up.

 

[Pimppeter2]

I've seen you guys use this picture on like 3 different articles.

Skyrim is a big game, can we please get anything other than that mammoth picture uploaded?

 

[punipunipyo]

I appreciate the dev who would make a game world so Epic, and yet so intricate like skyrim, with so many things to do, and so many ways to have fun, JUST FOR ME! unlike the MMOs, I don't have to share anything, I am the hero, I am the chosen one, I am what makes this game tick, I am free to do what I please (Great Beard can wait his ass on the tip of the world for me to learn my Fus Ro Dah AFTER I FINISH MY PHD in destruction, and get my skelleton key), AND I can PK ANY NPC I FREAKING PLEASE!~ (bucket, LOTS of bucket...) yeh, I forgive them, it's a big ass game, it's like finding a hair in your bow of beef noodle, it's so insignificant, why let it bother you, the overall experience is still good, they ARE getting those patches out, aren't they? and this game have less bugs than vegas!

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

"I'm speaking of my reactions as a regular player, by the way, not as a reviewer. Two very different mindsets."

I'd be much more interested in this article if you'd spoken about the difference(s) when you're reviewing a game, but anyway...

Personally I find nothing is more annoying than a buggy game. Having been burned by Oblivion, I have no intention of playing Skyrim until Bethesda has finished patching it and the inevitably huge unofficial modder patch starts to look like it's (more or less) finished. I don't understand how people can forgive (let alone love) a broken product, but then I suppose most RPG players tend to be suckers for punishment. Grind, anyone?

 

[Dark Prophet]

I think it's bug per hour thing for me. I have several games that I would have sent into deepest depths of game hell because of their bugs if they were been shorter and smaller. Fallout 3 and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. SoC come to mind right away, both games were buggy as hell but still playable for me because the bug per hour thing didn't exceed my tolerance limit. And they both had sequel that were shorter and smaller but with more bugs, go figure, in case of NV I said fuck it gave the game away I would have done the same with CS but my brother mods S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games and he fixed it for me, well at least made it playable, NV I recently bought again and while it's mostly bug free now the graphical glitches are still there and horrible as ever like the rad scorpions that can move under the game world and surprise attack you and kill you before you know what the fuck.

 

[NiPah]

I simply take into account how much fun I had with the game. Did the bug break the game? Did I still enjoy playing it?

I forgive games that I still enjoy, I dont forgive games that I dont enjoy, simple but it works.

 

[Strazdas]

If bugs are not game breaking (skyrim, fallout 3) then i can forgive them. If they are game-breaking (fallout 1, Stalker) i will not forgive them.
there is an exception, i forgave civilization 4 for making a game that wont run in fullscreen every second time it gets installed. (windowed mode works fine)

 

[Radelaide]

My favourite bugs so far is when it rains Mammoth and flying giants. Or when I start flying. (My character glitched mid-jump so she hovered and flapped her arms. Crazy *****)

 

[SirCannonFodder]

I really hope you're not suggesting Skyrim is pushing all-time boundaries of anything. Unless you just started gaming this year or something.

I really hope you don't mean you can't see how Skyrim is an ambitious boundary-breaking game. Unless you just started gaming this year or something.

Skyrim is a brilliantly crafted game with a rich world (which, unlike most open-world games, is actually fun to explore by itself, rather than resorting to collect-athons) and a good story, but it really doesn't do anything that's particularly new or novel, or that hasn't been seen in numerous other games. That's not a bad thing, though, not every game needs to be Portal, you can still have the ride of your life even if the wheels you're on weren't totally reinvented.

What bugs were in Alpha Protocol? I've played through it twice and haven't found a single bug.

Only bug I've come across is that in the Moscow Embassy, if you enter the building any way other than through the front door, then in the credits

Spoiler

it'll say you killed all the marines stationed there, regardless of whether or not you did. Even if you walked in the front door, then went out of that side door onto the roof)

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

What bugs were in Alpha Protocol? I've played through it twice and haven't found a single bug.

Only bug I've come across is that in the Moscow Embassy, if you enter the building any way other than through the front door, then in the credits

Spoiler

it'll say you killed all the marines stationed there, regardless of whether or not you did. Even if you walked in the front door, then went out of that side door onto the roof)

Well, that actually makes sense. If you go around on the roof all of the marines are hostile, so if one of them died it would count it as a hostile being killed. I don't know why you'd go that way though, you get way better perks from bluffing your way in.

 

[orangeapples]

as other games have said, some games are forgiven based on the severity of the bug, each bug measured on an individual level.

Small bugs that give the player a "Well, that was strange" moment get a pass since the game will continue, even if their character were to die. You just continue on in the game. Look at Halo: Reach. There is a very common bug that multiple players have encountered; it is when your vehicle just decides it wants to go at light speed and sends the player off the map. The game doesn't stop because of his bug and the player character just respawns: game on.

If there is a bug where a particular door doesn't open and it is easy to trigger the code that causes the bug and this door is required to pass through to continue the story and you cannot go backwards because it is a scripted scene then the player will rage.

Bugs that cause RAGE is bad and will not be forgiven.
Bugs that cause WTF are okay.

100 WTF bugs will never be as bad as a single RAGE bug.

Sometimes the WTF bugs become promoted to being features in later titles.

 

[SirCannonFodder]

What bugs were in Alpha Protocol? I've played through it twice and haven't found a single bug.

Only bug I've come across is that in the Moscow Embassy, if you enter the building any way other than through the front door, then in the credits

Spoiler

it'll say you killed all the marines stationed there, regardless of whether or not you did. Even if you walked in the front door, then went out of that side door onto the roof)

Well, that actually makes sense. If you go around on the roof all of the marines are hostile, so if one of them died it would count it as a hostile being killed. I don't know why you'd go that way though, you get way better perks from bluffing your way in.

I actually did bluff my way in, but thinking about it I remember the guards turning hostile when I went outside through the roof door to explore, so I reloaded and didn't go through there (I also otherwise didn't make the guards hostile whatsoever). Still ended up saying I killed them all, which *is* a documented bug [http://alphaprotocol.wikia.com/wiki/Intercept_Surkov_at_US_Embassy#Notes].

 

[electric method]

Someone mentioned brand loyalty being a basis for forgiveness of glitches and bugs. That was a very insightful and astute observation. I'd like to add some additional thoughts to that from the perspective of someone that spent the bulk of their career in management.

One of the things I learned early on is that it's hard work to earn a customers loyaly. Once earned it can be lost by just one bad experience with a product or service. In that situation the company has to respond quickly to "make it right" for the person. Done the right way resolving a problem will earn a company even greater good will and loyalty from their customer. It boils down to building a ongoing relationship between business and customer. Further, it's all about trust.

Additionally I think that many people give bethesda a pass on bugs, glitches and the like because they are viewing both the new games and the older ones with rose tinted glasses. Overlooking the flaws because of all of the good times they've had with other games by Bethesda. It's really just a matter of past experience influencing a present one.

It's highly ironic really. Most of us wouldn't give a pass to other industries we deal with in our lives for giving us broken, flawed or incomplete products. Yet we do it all the time with games. It's actually kind of a really damning statement about the state of the gaming industry.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

What bugs were in Alpha Protocol? I've played through it twice and haven't found a single bug.

Only bug I've come across is that in the Moscow Embassy, if you enter the building any way other than through the front door, then in the credits

Spoiler

it'll say you killed all the marines stationed there, regardless of whether or not you did. Even if you walked in the front door, then went out of that side door onto the roof)

Well, that actually makes sense. If you go around on the roof all of the marines are hostile, so if one of them died it would count it as a hostile being killed. I don't know why you'd go that way though, you get way better perks from bluffing your way in.

I actually did bluff my way in, but thinking about it I remember the guards turning hostile when I went outside through the roof door to explore, so I reloaded and didn't go through there (I also otherwise didn't make the guards hostile whatsoever). Still ended up saying I killed them all, which *is* a documented bug [http://alphaprotocol.wikia.com/wiki/Intercept_Surkov_at_US_Embassy#Notes].

Ah, I see. Well thankfully I never encountered that.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

A Bug By Any Other Name

We forgive some buggy games while shunning others. Why?

Read Full Article

Oh gods, thank you for that flying, bouncing companion video. I was having a rather poor night, then I saw that, and my night improved.

Quite right, too, about how some games we forgive their offenses, but others offend to the point of anger. I'm willing to forgive bouncing tanks in Saints Row the Third, because the psychotic way the tank bounced was just hilarious. Anything in Just Cause 2 is forgiven, because that game is improved by the chaotic glitches causing all kinds of incidental humor. Even glitches in Fallout 3 were forgivable, because they only happened every so often.

But, there are those that have offended too much. The copy of Heavy Rain I had was bugged to the extent of unplayable. I would try to play it a certain way, and it would freeze up for up to forty five minutes at a time, only to unfreeze for about two seconds, then freeze again for another thirty minutes. This wasn't a one-time thing, it happened every time I played, at quite a few spots. I had to intentionally fail certain QTEs, something absolutely against my nature, just to progress. I couldn't play the game the way I wanted to. Beyond that, at one point, every choice available ended in a frozen scene--this isn't just a bug, this rendered the game unplayable past the half way point. That, no matter how many other discs I'd be offered, will be the last time I play that game. I was loving it, too, and now, I can't even remain civil when it's brought up.

 

[Kahani]

I don't hold games up as perfect. I enjoy them until I don't anymore.

Exactly. All the fanboys and haters, unsurprisingly, completely miss the point. The vast majority of people really don't give a damn about who made a game, what they've done in the past, or what reviews say. All that matters is whether a game is fun or not. A game that is bugged to hell can still be fun despite the bugs, while a completely bug-free game can suck ass even though it's technically perfect.

For my part, I've been quite frustrated with Skyrim. Aside from the interface being pretty much the worst I've ever seen, which isn't really a bug rather than just plain stupidity, I'm currently struggling to play for as long as an hour without at least one crash to desktop. Plus I've been affected by many of the other major bugs like backwards dragons, mammoths dropping out of the sky, and so on. Yet despite all that, it's still probably the best game I've played this year (although admittedly I haven't played Saints Row yet). Half an hour of fun followed by a crash is still better than half an hour not having fun.

 

[gphjr14]

Some bugs are funny as long as they're random and not game breaking.
Example I was playing Saints Row 3 and I don't know if it was because too much was going on or what but at one point my car was pointed straight up in the air on its nose and was just twirling about, bouncing off buildings. Something like that is funny.

I know in Assassin's Creed Revelations there were instances where assassins would be stuck in buildings, and an instance where I had to restart a recruitment mission because I was pickpocketing people and the meter stayed at zero.

Then there's glitches like in Battlefield Bad Company 2 where I couldn't finish the game because of a rare glitch that had you instakilled in a chopper on the 3rd to last mission.
After some research it turns out usually if you start all over it'll fix itself. That's no bueno in my book. Not even considering getting the 3rd installment because the 2nd one left a shit taste in my mouth.

For huge games like Skyrim I can give a pass. Games like AC and Battlefield, worry more on testing your games and less about DLC and pass code bullshit.