EU Ban of Videogame Tax Breaks Imminent

[Strazdas]

So the only way ubisoft can survive being one of them ost profitable game companies is by having a tax excempt? looks like just a cry from a baby that didnt got his doze of 1 ton candy every day.
maybe if they woudl stop treating thier costumers as criminals they wouldnt have to worry about it?

And I AM a conservative Euro-sceptic, and this is exactly the sort of thing I was worried the EU would pull. I occasionally doubted the evidence behind my beliefs, but thank you Europe for making me even more Tory than I already was.

You mean, you were afraid that EU would actually be.... FAIR?

 

[draythefingerless]

id say wait until this economical crisis blows over. right now is not the time to threaten any income. THEN when we are a bit better, THEN CUT THIS TAXBREAK LAW'S FUCKING GUTS OUT AND MAIL IT TO UBISOFT.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

It has been the case in the UK for a while, where they have refused to give the VG industry well deserved tax breaks. The fact is that if such a ban goes continent wide, many of the development houses, the larger ones in particular WILL simply close up shop here and move overseas.

Canada offers the video games industry very attractive and beneficial tax relief. Hence why Montreal and other Canadian cities house so many large developers. What the EU will do is effectively stifle European creativity, take away development and other ancillary industry jobs and force them to other countries, destroy the reputation for some truly fantastic games in the past and lose out on large, income-generating, citizen-employing companies investing in our nations.

So one man alone has the power over the entire VG industry's future in Europe? That's quite scary. Hey Canadians, do you have space for any more European companies to move over there? I think you'll be getting some later this year.

 

[mxfox408]

Can I ask, when was the last time EU did anything for us?

Are the EU utter idiots to think they can remove tax-breaks to prevent competitive poaching when they fail to realise that just leaves ALL of the EU at huge disadvantage to the rest of the world. This is what the EU was created for, to stand up to the United States but this is FAILING in that capacity!

Stand up to the US? LMAO as long as they remain socialist their business stand no chance against less regulated tax systems, such.as the US. As far as standing up to the US is a joke, first they need to beable to compete, and when grass looks greener on the other side I wouldn't call that standing up to the US.

 

[AnarchistFish]

Looked for a post in this thread to get offended at.

I also find it funny that a French company is actively fighting for something. But it is even more funny that if they are about to lose their fight, then run to Canada.
Ahhh Frenchies... How you make me lol.

Found it. *shakes fist*

 

[Staskala]

Stand up to the US? LMAO as long as they remain socialist their business stand no chance against less regulated tax systems, such.as the US. As far as standing up to the US is a joke, first they need to beable to compete, and when grass looks greener on the other side I wouldn't call that standing up to the US.

Hate to break it to you, but the EU's combined GDP is higher than the US's. As for international competition, i.e. trade, Germany alone exports more than the USA. How's that for evil socialists (lol) being able to compete?
Not that I'm particularly proud of some random #1 rankings on wikipedia, because last time I checked they didn't benefit me in the slightest; but next time you might want to check your facts before you indulge in petty jingoism.

 

[Susurrus]

The thread title and explanation is deeply misleading. The EU have not definitely said anything is going to be taken away. In fact, they don't appear to have said anything, yet. There was an exemption for France in existence, which may continue in existence, but which is expiring now in order to allow the EU to review its status.

Whilst they may still choose not to renew it, thus effectively ending the tax breaks, at the moment, all that's happening is that an exemption has expired, and France is making its case for the application to continue. It needs to present somewhere OUTSIDE the EU as a threat, otherwise that would be a prima facie demonstration that the tax break WAS affecting inter-EU freedom of movement, but suggesting that business might move outside the EU demonstrates a reason to keep it.

Moan when the EU decides not to extend it, not before they've even considered it.

 

[Nikolaz72]

*Looks at the issue, starts clapping*

This is justice, this is -fair- Its not like they are imposing a new tax on video-game-developers they are just. Well, taxing them like everyone else? In France thats not even that high. Ubisoft needless whining is needless, sure it a couple of zero's they would want in their own pocket, but thats the arguement from -everyone- who dislike taxes in general. They dont have to worry about giving an insurance to their employees and they dont have to worry about lack of talent. If Ubisoft moves to Montreal?. . . So what?

Those left who doesnt get tax breaks and are reasonable enough not to throw a fit over paying the same as everyone else will pay more, and in many years. Well, it will have paid for itself, probably. And this is not a -Omg developers are gonna leave Europe issue- its an -Two developers are gonna leave france- Way to overblow this.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

Someone needs to calm this EU bashing and utterly unsubstantiated claims (bullshit) that's been spewed across the topic about it.

Can I ask, when was the last time EU did anything for us?

(Assuming you live in Europe):
+ Easy travel between countries.
+ Helped to equalise pay between men and women.
+ Ensured paid leave.
+ Increased foreign study.
+ Made flights cheaper.
+ Made telephone calls cheaper.
+ Increased consumer protection.
+ Made food labelling clear and transparent.
+ Helped protect the environment.

How's that for you? This is like the Monty Python scene, "What have the Romans ever done for us?"

I'm not totally in favour of everything the EU ever does, but certainly you have to give the organisation respect and its due for some of the incredible stuff it has done.

As for the tax breaks... well what they should do is put a general tax break for video game companies across the entire EU, e.g. make them mandatory. That would kickstart things for sure.

 

[Treblaine]

Can I ask, when was the last time EU did anything for us?

Are the EU utter idiots to think they can remove tax-breaks to prevent competitive poaching when they fail to realise that just leaves ALL of the EU at huge disadvantage to the rest of the world. This is what the EU was created for, to stand up to the United States but this is FAILING in that capacity!

Stand up to the US? LMAO as long as they remain socialist their business stand no chance against less regulated tax systems, such as the US. As far as standing up to the US is a joke, first they need to beable to compete, and when grass looks greener on the other side I wouldn't call that standing up to the US.

That's just what I heard the INTENDED purpose of the EU is.

It seems right now the chickens are coming home to roost on 40 years of this economic theory and with billion dollar loans and invention and destruction of so much money it all seems to be coming apart at the seams.

 

[devilmore]

Here's an idea: Someone send Wouter a few waffles and chocolate. Belgians love that stuff. Maybe he'll look kindly upon videogame development if was in a better mood.

Except that Pieké is Dutch. He used to work at the Dutch Ministry for Economic Affairs.

Damn, I was too slow.

These article punchlines on the escapist would be a lot funnier if they weren't so frequently wrong. Mostly uneducated.

I don't demand people know who that guy is (I certainly didn't), but I do demand that someone who writes an article about laws in the EU at least googles where the EU government is and then figures out for himself that not everyone who works there was born there. Because, you know, it's the EU GOVERNMENT.

 

[ph0b0s123]

This is dumb. What would be good is a global law banning tax breaks instead. Then countries can compete on actual costs rather than on sweet heart tax break deals that just mean large Corporates hardly ever pay any taxes, anywhere. Or the EU should allow EU wide tax breaks to get companies into the EU zone, but not breaks between different EU countries so that EU countries are chasing each other to the bottom. The tax break 'chase to the bottom', helps no-one except multinational corporations.

 

[Treblaine]

Someone needs to calm this EU bashing and utterly unsubstantiated claims (bullshit) that's been spewed across the topic about it.

Can I ask, when was the last time EU did anything for us?

(Assuming you live in Europe):
+ Easy travel between countries.
+ Helped to equalise pay between men and women.
+ Ensured paid leave.
+ Increased foreign study.
+ Made flights cheaper.
+ Made telephone calls cheaper.
+ Increased consumer protection.
+ Made food labelling clear and transparent.
+ Helped protect the environment.

How's that for you? This is like the Monty Python scene, "What have the Romans ever done for us?"

I'm not totally in favour of everything the EU ever does, but certainly you have to give the organisation respect and its due for some of the incredible stuff it has done.

As for the tax breaks... well what they should do is put a general tax break for video game companies across the entire EU, e.g. make them mandatory. That would kickstart things for sure.

Interesting Monty Python reference, but it's not like we were knuckle-dragging savages before the EU came along and introduced us to civilisation.

I doubt UK government would NOT have voted laws for equal-pay between men and women (and ensure paid leave and other employment laws) WITHOUT the EU. What is the matter with this little thing we have, oh what's it called... oh yeah, DEMOCRACY! We got universal Suffrage for women and with that a steady increase in equality of rights and opportunities.

EU's role is in INTER-governmental regulation, what has it done there? This EU wide ban on VG Tax-breaks is an example of that and a bad one.

Also I think it's more a benefit to other countries than UK with easier emigration for work and study, I don't think many Brits are desperate to study at a French university or pick carrots in Italy. Increased immigration is not necessarily a detriment to UK, but it's not exactly a massive boon either. I don't have a problem with more foreigners here, I just find it weird I should be grateful for it. This is a gift the UK is giving by being open for EU. What are we getting in return? Something that we couldn't have done for ourselves.

Especially considering unlike America where the historical convention was that immigrants naturalise and stay in the US, invest their money and efforts in a growing country. The idea now in UK seems to be they work or study and don't have to integrate and then when done can leave with their money and learned talents. I DO NOT want "these immigrants to go home"! If they come here then they should come to STAY! Immigration to SETTLE... not a massive MIGRATING labour force. We have the brain-drain thing all wrong, we lure the smarties in then they leave!

"As for the tax breaks... well what they should do is put a general tax break for video game companies across the entire EU, e.g. make them mandatory. That would kickstart things for sure."

+1 to that, though ideally each EU country should be encouraged to come to that conclusion themselves rather than a blanked forced option.

 

[Trivun]

And why do you think we didn't want into the EU?

I agree with you, Root. I'm not actually going to get started on the EU itself, because I don't want to spend the next half an hour typing a massive essay. It's late at night now. But I want to get into the industry as a career, and yet there aren't anywhere near as many opportunities in the UK as there are in other countries, such as the USA, Canada, and of course, France. And the reason? A lack of government support for building a UK-based videogame industry, helped in no small part by the EU's nonsensical ideas of these industry tax breaks. British companies should be subject to British laws, not European laws.

And another thing. How many people are surprised, seriously, at the fact that the one exception to the EU's rule is France? The same country that seems to benefit from most EU rules without having to suffer any of the consequences, and has more say and power in the EU than most other members? (And don't even get me started on the CAP...)

 

[Treblaine]

So the only way ubisoft can survive being one of them ost profitable game companies is by having a tax excempt? looks like just a cry from a baby that didnt got his doze of 1 ton candy every day.
maybe if they woudl stop treating thier costumers as criminals they wouldnt have to worry about it?

And I AM a conservative Euro-sceptic, and this is exactly the sort of thing I was worried the EU would pull. I occasionally doubted the evidence behind my beliefs, but thank you Europe for making me even more Tory than I already was.

You mean, you were afraid that EU would actually be.... FAIR?

Yes, fairness is the problem but not in itself but how the pursuit of fairness is not through being Egalitarianism but more like Tall Poppy Syndrome. I.e. pushing down those who have advantage rather than bringing us all up. The EU would have been better to enforce ALL countries of EU have similar tax-breaks for this industry, not forbid ANYONE from having them.

The result is countries OUTSIDE the EU have an unfair advantage. The EU can't expect to have an entirely internalised Video Games industry when it is so clearly an international industry.

PS: I am giving Ubisoft a chance because they seem to be scaling back on their always-on DRM so like Pavlov's dog I must reward them

 

[OldGus]

What I say for US in this case applies for Canada as well. I think this shows it's not a US issue but a Continental issue.

Here is the thing. The censorship/bans that a American political minority TRIES and are solidly cut down by the US Constitution... UK and Europe ACTUALLY DOES enforce such censorship!

Just this week we learn Twisted Metal will be censored in Europe but not in the US and Canada.

I've heard enough bad business practices in UK such as at codemasters in the production of Bodycount. I'd like to see evidence it is actually worse in the US.

Soooo, to sum up, you just see it as baseless whining, and America actually is an awesome place to be a game developer, yes (in the relative scope, obviously)?

Before this devolves into a pissing match of "my country is a more horrible place for devs than yours," can we at least agree that devs (and especially their lower employees) are treated like shite everywhere? Cause it sounds like both of our countries are not nice to devs.

 

[JdaS]

Such a fucking institution of clowns and useless assholes I've never seen (various USA governments not withstanding). This hard-on for "HEALTHY COMPETITION" will eventually sterilize everyone while China laughs all the way to the bank.

And another thing. How many people are surprised, seriously, at the fact that the one exception to the EU's rule is France? The same country that seems to benefit from most EU rules without having to suffer any of the consequences, and has more say and power in the EU than most other members? (And don't even get me started on the CAP...)

Indeed... Germany too. I just can't figure it out durrr...

 

[Treblaine]

What I say for US in this case applies for Canada as well. I think this shows it's not a US issue but a Continental issue.

Here is the thing. The censorship/bans that a American political minority TRIES and are solidly cut down by the US Constitution... UK and Europe ACTUALLY DOES enforce such censorship!

Just this week we learn Twisted Metal will be censored in Europe but not in the US and Canada.

I've heard enough bad business practices in UK such as at codemasters in the production of Bodycount. I'd like to see evidence it is actually worse in the US.

Soooo, to sum up, you just see it as baseless whining, and America actually is an awesome place to be a game developer, yes (in the relative scope, obviously)?

Before this devolves into a pissing match of "my country is a more horrible place for devs than yours," can we at least agree that devs (and especially their lower employees) are treated like shite everywhere? Cause it sounds like both of our countries are not nice to devs.

America AND Canada, arguably Canada to a greater extent.

"can we at least agree that devs are treated like shite everywhere?"

Yes.

But money wise it's a bit better OUTSIDE the UK and soon anywhere outside the EU would be better.