EVE Online Players Flip a Lid Over Virtual Clothing
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
Sounds more like they learned from Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine's Item Mall. Clothing sets went for $40-50, there was some individual accessory that they sold for $500 a few years back. It's nothing new for micro-transaction malls to be expensive. And that's not including their $3-5 a pop gambling mini game, Fortune Cards, which had a small chance of getting you the item you wanted.
The only surprising thing about this is that EVE didn't start suckling on that cash cow sooner.
The only surprising thing about this is that EVE didn't start suckling on that cash cow sooner.
Easy for you to say, my backpack has been empty of all the weapons and hats I've want since it all started :'( And VALVe just keeps on giving. It's like Christmas never ends with those (glorious) bastards, they release hugeass updates with dozens of weapons and hats, and it'd take me weeks just to get 1/3 of the content, if at that!sir.rutthed said:
So, I'm not on a high horse, I'm just sore on the bum
Still, you've got to admit that $20 for one unremarkable hat is pretty ridiculous, and $100+ for a pack of, like, 4 of them is also crazy. That, and keys are not droppable yet crates are, which I just find pretty lame. Crafting takes forever, you would need to sacrifice many weapons that you may enjoy just to get some regular scrap. I really do want VALVe to adjust the drop system ever so slightly so that it'll allow for at least more frequent drops or something. Not too much, just a bit faster on the drops I think.
Yeah, I read that as well, my post was mainly for (sort of) comic effect.Raiyan 1.0 said:
I just finished reading "Greed is Good" and, I dunno, seems pretty reasonable to me.
It lays out very clearly that throwing in game-changing items for sale willy-nilly is very bad both for in-game balance and as a PR stance, however that because more and more F2P games are doing it (and it is being accepted), CCP almost has to make these changes in order to adapt to the MMO market. Now, should it have been titled "Greed is Good" without the first paragraph being about how that's just a title and not really their focus to exploit their customers? Despite the fact that they outright say later that is not their intention of course, yeah that was a mistake however, they didn't intend this for public consumption. They send it to people in their business and investors and such, people who, ya know, understand business. Not the internet's denizens who wouldn't understand capitalism or economics if it bit them on the ass and had to be surgically removed.
But what I think we're all missing from this is:
WORLD OF DARKNESS MMO YESYESSSSRJSDOVMOAKXPZLXANMTOGOZKGSOAJHOSJGNOAEKGOjfaolgnaojgaojJFHIJIAJGOAJDGAOJGAOJGAM<DVOAJKAOJKAOJFAOJFAOJFAOJGFADJVBNHBJYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Yay artwork... god damn I need a release date for this. TAKE MY MONEY CCP. ALL OF IT.
It lays out very clearly that throwing in game-changing items for sale willy-nilly is very bad both for in-game balance and as a PR stance, however that because more and more F2P games are doing it (and it is being accepted), CCP almost has to make these changes in order to adapt to the MMO market. Now, should it have been titled "Greed is Good" without the first paragraph being about how that's just a title and not really their focus to exploit their customers? Despite the fact that they outright say later that is not their intention of course, yeah that was a mistake however, they didn't intend this for public consumption. They send it to people in their business and investors and such, people who, ya know, understand business. Not the internet's denizens who wouldn't understand capitalism or economics if it bit them on the ass and had to be surgically removed.
But what I think we're all missing from this is:
WORLD OF DARKNESS MMO YESYESSSSRJSDOVMOAKXPZLXANMTOGOZKGSOAJHOSJGNOAEKGOjfaolgnaojgaojJFHIJIAJGOAJDGAOJGAOJGAM<DVOAJKAOJKAOJFAOJFAOJFAOJGFADJVBNHBJYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Yay artwork... god damn I need a release date for this. TAKE MY MONEY CCP. ALL OF IT.
Microtransactions and DLC are both Greed. And I refuse to support any company that decides to use them. I haven't been with CCP/Eve since they were unwilling to fix an entirely broken and unbalanced economy that was messed up by Gold Farmers. This latest idea from them, definately won't be increasing the chances of me returning.
I don't understand why it's really an issue. Micro-transactions don't actually harm the gamer at all, especially if they're for vanity items.
You don't NEED an $80 monacle to do ANYTHING in EVE online.
The only point where the gamer does get harmed by micro-transactions is when the money goes to game-breaking advantages, which inevitably ends up resulting in those who pay real money to the company win.
You don't NEED an $80 monacle to do ANYTHING in EVE online.
The only point where the gamer does get harmed by micro-transactions is when the money goes to game-breaking advantages, which inevitably ends up resulting in those who pay real money to the company win.
It's optional people! You don't need to pay a million virtual dollars to dress yourself up if you don't want to! This is like when Team Fortress 2 had purchasable hats for the first time,people flipped out but the sane ones didn't care.
I don't understand the big deal about letting people buy virtual clothing,if it's what they want to do,let them do it,it doesn't hurt your experience and manages to satisfy them.
Ya, it is stupid paying for a virtual hat, but people still do it. I say Valve has every right to take advantage of their stupidity though. I have about 5 crates sitting in my backpack because I have no keys, so I understand that too. Thing is, at least other people can see your 20 dollar hat in TF2. Seems like they should've waited for the actual face to face stuff to be done before they introduced cosmetic items in EVE though. Now it just looks like a greedy moneygrabbing attempt.Jumplion said:Easy for you to say, my backpack has been empty of all the weapons and hats I've want since it all started :'( And VALVe just keeps on giving. It's like Christmas never ends with those (glorious) bastards, they release hugeass updates with dozens of weapons and hats, and it'd take me weeks just to get 1/3 of the content, if at that!sir.rutthed said:
So, I'm not on a high horse, I'm just sore on the bum
Still, you've got to admit that $20 for one unremarkable hat is pretty ridiculous, and $100+ for a pack of, like, 4 of them is also crazy. That, and keys are not droppable yet crates are, which I just find pretty lame. Crafting takes forever, you would need to sacrifice many weapons that you may enjoy just to get some regular scrap. I really do want VALVe to adjust the drop system ever so slightly so that it'll allow for at least more frequent drops or something. Not too much, just a bit faster on the drops I think.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=932
CCP's Repy is up....
And yeah, they might be in the deep end now knowing how everyone will act to this.
CCP's Repy is up....
And yeah, they might be in the deep end now knowing how everyone will act to this.
With TF2, I think when the store was first introduced, it felt like VALVe was going for the same moneygrabbing tactics. VALVe is known for their free everything stuff, so seeing a store come up for DLC items, expensive ones at that, looked like VALVe was taking advantage of their status to gouge some money off of people.sir.rutthed said:
Though, when compared to the EVE stuff, yeah, it isn't as bad. I don't mind paying for some additional addons (I'd probably be more indifferent to the Mann Co. store if it didn't sell weapons as well) so long as they don't affect the game, or if they do then other people may easily unlock them or something. If it's game changing stuff, like a weapon only gotten through payment or an unlock that is incredibly difficult to get, then that's just gouging.
I don't really give a rats ass about the microstore*, but the whole update, ccp's way of handling the anger and several other factors have made me extremely sad over the past few weeks. that his whole captain's quarters façade/gimmick isn't optional makes it all the worse.
Edit: * As it is now.
This business about game changing stuff being sold for real life money is already in the game so not sure why this would only now grab so much rage.
that his whole captain's quarters façade/gimmick isn't optional makes it all the worse.Edit: * As it is now.
This business about game changing stuff being sold for real life money is already in the game so not sure why this would only now grab so much rage.
To be honest the amount of anger this has inspired in me is amazing. Read this carefully it has some points about CCP, their attitude, and where EVE is at now.
I tried EVE Online a while back but didn't think much of it, yet since I've retired from WoW and have been waiting for ORO I decided to try it again since a few people have periodically mentioned I'd love it given my pre-occupation with slow, stat-based RPGs, and the changes with Incarna. I decided to reactivate at the beginning of the month and have had nothing but problems.
For starters I received a message in my E-mail telling me I could reactivate my account for 60 days for $20. I tried to do this and reactivated the account but didn't get the 2 months for $20 deal. I figured I did it wrong, and just wanted to play the game to try it anyway so I went with the 1 month I purchused. I however bought this month using Paypal since I don't want to be on recurring billing and don't want my credit card information to be out there. Unfortunatly my account said "you are going to be charged again on so and so a date" which I didn't want, I want to buy one month at a time. I do some research to find out how to cancel recurring billing and find out that there is supposed to be a button in account management that wasn't there. I contact customer support. The next day I check my account again, see a button where the cancellation is supposed to be but don't read it correctly or something and wind up cancelling the cancellation they put on the account which makes the button disappear. I contact customer support again, apologize, get a head GM who cancels my billing again.
The point here is that you apparently cannot cancel recurring billing without the assistance of a GM. Want to buy one month at a time for $15 a pop? You can't do that.
At any rate, I'm committed to the game for a month so I see down and decide to play it, and I guess it's not bad. They improved a lot of things since I tried it years ago... things like "learning skills" and the like are gone. I decided I'd wait and see what was up with this "Incarna" update people were saying was going to walk on water before making any final desicians. See, according to what I was reading and hearing Incarna isn't just supposed to be the whole "walking around in stations" thing, but also a general graphical overhaul of the game including things like new turret and drone models. Really the only change Incarna brought about I noticed other than "Captain's Quarters" and the microtransaction system is that now my Miner shoots a solid blue beam at an astroid as opposed to pulses of yellow-green energy.
All I can say here is "WTF is CCP thinking". To be honest they are running a game that seems to have roughly 50,000 users online. I suppose that's a solid business, but now they want to start charging people real money for in game items? See WoW could get away with that because of the huge player base and the desire for people to be differant.... it's an entirely differant social enviroment from what I've seen with EVE. What's more when it comes to them selling weapons, ships, ammo and all kinds of things like that for real money I find it almost ridiculous as that would TOTALLY destroy the entire point of this game. Not to mention the simple fact that if you buy an item in say WoW nothing is going to happen to your Celestrial Steed if you die, in EVE you can lose ships like crazy (depending on what your doing) which is why they are so relatively easy to get. I feel almost insulted that a company would expect people to be dumb enough to pay say $50 for a virtual space ship that could be ganked by a random player. I mean heck, just in the little over 2 weeks I've been playing I've been hearing horror stories about JITA and how it's so unsafe despite it's high sec status and all the ganking going on there.....
Simply put I really like what they did with this game over the last couple of years, I would kind of like to play it some more, but honestly given the frustration when it comes to their billing system, and what they are doing with microtransactions... I don't know. I really can't see myself doing it.
Oh and for the record the whole "Greed Is Good" thing is probably a referance to a famous scene involving Gordon Gekko in the movie "Wall Street"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_(1987_film)
Oh well, maybe I'll find something else to scratch my MMO itch before Old Republic Online comes out. I tried "RIFT" but am burned out with sword and sorcery, EVE was fun but I've had trouble getting the energy up to log in the last couple of days because I don't want to waste the effort to even AFK mine in a hauler given what they did with the game. I figure I'll cut my losses with what I've spent on the game. They are going to charge me $20 a pop for PLEXs to extend my play time if I don't want to be on recurring billing I have to get one of their employees to cancel anyway.
The point is that the issues with CCP go well beyond the Incarna update. I should have known there was something shady with all the trouble it takes to not be on their recurring billing cycle. I'm tempted to post the E-mails I sent/received about that to prove it given how messed up it was, but I'm not 100% sure what kind of privacy laws might be involved there.
At any rate, thanks for reading, and hopefully someone did. If this saves anyone some time or trouble it was worth writing.
In EVE I'm known/was known as Whisper Adaire (I've been in a few channels recently, 4 year+ old toon from the first time I played since I wanted to keep the few skills I built up, despite little play time or experience. A lot of people have asked me about that).
I tried EVE Online a while back but didn't think much of it, yet since I've retired from WoW and have been waiting for ORO I decided to try it again since a few people have periodically mentioned I'd love it given my pre-occupation with slow, stat-based RPGs, and the changes with Incarna. I decided to reactivate at the beginning of the month and have had nothing but problems.
For starters I received a message in my E-mail telling me I could reactivate my account for 60 days for $20. I tried to do this and reactivated the account but didn't get the 2 months for $20 deal. I figured I did it wrong, and just wanted to play the game to try it anyway so I went with the 1 month I purchused. I however bought this month using Paypal since I don't want to be on recurring billing and don't want my credit card information to be out there. Unfortunatly my account said "you are going to be charged again on so and so a date" which I didn't want, I want to buy one month at a time. I do some research to find out how to cancel recurring billing and find out that there is supposed to be a button in account management that wasn't there. I contact customer support. The next day I check my account again, see a button where the cancellation is supposed to be but don't read it correctly or something and wind up cancelling the cancellation they put on the account which makes the button disappear. I contact customer support again, apologize, get a head GM who cancels my billing again.
The point here is that you apparently cannot cancel recurring billing without the assistance of a GM. Want to buy one month at a time for $15 a pop? You can't do that.
At any rate, I'm committed to the game for a month so I see down and decide to play it, and I guess it's not bad. They improved a lot of things since I tried it years ago... things like "learning skills" and the like are gone. I decided I'd wait and see what was up with this "Incarna" update people were saying was going to walk on water before making any final desicians. See, according to what I was reading and hearing Incarna isn't just supposed to be the whole "walking around in stations" thing, but also a general graphical overhaul of the game including things like new turret and drone models. Really the only change Incarna brought about I noticed other than "Captain's Quarters" and the microtransaction system is that now my Miner shoots a solid blue beam at an astroid as opposed to pulses of yellow-green energy.
All I can say here is "WTF is CCP thinking". To be honest they are running a game that seems to have roughly 50,000 users online. I suppose that's a solid business, but now they want to start charging people real money for in game items? See WoW could get away with that because of the huge player base and the desire for people to be differant.... it's an entirely differant social enviroment from what I've seen with EVE. What's more when it comes to them selling weapons, ships, ammo and all kinds of things like that for real money I find it almost ridiculous as that would TOTALLY destroy the entire point of this game. Not to mention the simple fact that if you buy an item in say WoW nothing is going to happen to your Celestrial Steed if you die, in EVE you can lose ships like crazy (depending on what your doing) which is why they are so relatively easy to get. I feel almost insulted that a company would expect people to be dumb enough to pay say $50 for a virtual space ship that could be ganked by a random player. I mean heck, just in the little over 2 weeks I've been playing I've been hearing horror stories about JITA and how it's so unsafe despite it's high sec status and all the ganking going on there.....
Simply put I really like what they did with this game over the last couple of years, I would kind of like to play it some more, but honestly given the frustration when it comes to their billing system, and what they are doing with microtransactions... I don't know. I really can't see myself doing it.
Oh and for the record the whole "Greed Is Good" thing is probably a referance to a famous scene involving Gordon Gekko in the movie "Wall Street"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_(1987_film)
Oh well, maybe I'll find something else to scratch my MMO itch before Old Republic Online comes out. I tried "RIFT" but am burned out with sword and sorcery, EVE was fun but I've had trouble getting the energy up to log in the last couple of days because I don't want to waste the effort to even AFK mine in a hauler given what they did with the game. I figure I'll cut my losses with what I've spent on the game. They are going to charge me $20 a pop for PLEXs to extend my play time if I don't want to be on recurring billing I have to get one of their employees to cancel anyway.
The point is that the issues with CCP go well beyond the Incarna update. I should have known there was something shady with all the trouble it takes to not be on their recurring billing cycle. I'm tempted to post the E-mails I sent/received about that to prove it given how messed up it was, but I'm not 100% sure what kind of privacy laws might be involved there.
At any rate, thanks for reading, and hopefully someone did. If this saves anyone some time or trouble it was worth writing.
In EVE I'm known/was known as Whisper Adaire (I've been in a few channels recently, 4 year+ old toon from the first time I played since I wanted to keep the few skills I built up, despite little play time or experience. A lot of people have asked me about that).
Its more the fact that items for AUR are created out of nothing, while at least with plex the ISK and ships came from somewere. EvE has a few strenghts, and the player drivin market is one core aspect, players just dont what to see it chucked out the window.Slangeveld said:I don't really give a rats ass about the microstore*, but the whole update, ccp's way of handling the anger and several other factors have made me extremely sad over the past few weeks.
Edit: * As it is now.
This business about game changing stuff being sold for real life money is already in the game so not sure why this would only now grab so much rage.
As an EvE Online player, the more I read of this, the more worried I am about putting my money into their game. I have no problem with them selling the equivalent of virtual nothing to consumers (which many companies have done, and seem to be succeeding at it too!) at prices that scream "Why bother?".
If this is true, of their prices being so criminal, then it shows they completely underestimated their player base. They don't have an insight into our wallets. Far from it actually!
I read their response to the rage and fury about the prices.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=932&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=update&utm_content=devblog&utm_campaign=eveonline
They refer to the pieces as "clothes". In reality, they're far from them. Not a single item in their catalog will keep you warm. YOU can't wear them, only your non-breathing, cold, digital embodiment can. Last I checked he isn't cold either!
Simply put, it's too expensive for what they want it to do, when we already have a perfectly viable method of showing who we are!
If this is true, of their prices being so criminal, then it shows they completely underestimated their player base. They don't have an insight into our wallets. Far from it actually!
I read their response to the rage and fury about the prices.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=932&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=update&utm_content=devblog&utm_campaign=eveonline
They refer to the pieces as "clothes". In reality, they're far from them. Not a single item in their catalog will keep you warm. YOU can't wear them, only your non-breathing, cold, digital embodiment can. Last I checked he isn't cold either!
Yes, I did choose these because they are of better quality. Are you implying that the priced clothes are of better polygons than the original ones? That doesn't mean I'm willing to shell out for them. I buy most of my clothes in sales or using coupons or discounts because it's cheaper for me. The store they have runs a monopoly. There will NEVER be a sale unless they feel generous. Lets take their "military" garb that they sell, more military themed clothes of space warfare. They cost 25 quid each. Now, go to an army surplus store. Get a pair of olive green or forest camo trousers, it's probably only a tenner or less. There's exactly ONE and only one designer making these polygon fleeces despite the game saying otherwise.
Okay when did I win the lottery? When did japanese boutiques open up around me? Could you have chosen a more out-of-touch example? Can I honestly ask anyone in this thread who has even touched a $1000 piece of clothing, let alone being a pair of jeans or from a japanese boutique, or both? Chances are you haven't, and if you have and you're browsing the Escapist, you have no problem with the issue at hand!
Except when it comes to gaming, quite a lot of people will consider you a complete and utter tosser. I know some of you are going to bring in Team Fortress 2 here, but consider that there are many, many, many ways to find, trade for, or buy hats (some of which can give your character bonuses such as the Scout Milkman set, giving these a practical use (Not even a great one at that as they must be worn as a set with other pieces, stopping them from being must haves unless the play style of the set suits you extremely well)). They have harbored a trading environment in themselves which lets even more casual players join in with the few weapons they pick up in their first couple of hours of play. The problem with EvE, comes from the fact that entering the market that the apparel revolves around is not only costly, but can cost months of work, dedication and time, for the privilege of wearing more stylish polygons. Not only that, but the prices can range into the billions for ISK, which only the elite that own a slice of Null-Sec can afford (supposing they allow the profits to trickle down to the lower echelons of the corporation).
But we already express ourselves, moreso in EvE online through play rather than our digital avatar. All of our actions, before digital clothes came into it, decided how people viewed us. Whether we were the people hanging back in Secure space, the ones sleeping to the quiet murmur of mining lasers and drones while our cargo holds started to bulge; or the person who kept a collection of all the biomasses in their hangar. We were who we wanted to be by our actions. We did not dress up like goths to show people we were going to blow them up because, fuck it I hate people! We blew people up because we wanted them to see we weren't to be messed with. The idea that polygons will show others who we are in EvE is a complete fallacy, unless of course you've already subscribed to the greed is good agenda and keep all wealth to yourself while in your Player owned station in Null-sec.
Simply put, it's too expensive for what they want it to do, when we already have a perfectly viable method of showing who we are!
"Fearless
Fearless is one of our company values. It?s also the name of an internal newsletter that has been designed and developed specifically to catalyze discussions on controversial topics. One of the biggest elephants in the room these days, not just for EVE but for the gaming industry as a whole, is virtual goods sales and microtransactions.
Therefore we dedicated an entire issue to exactly that topic. It?s worth mentioning that the topic of the issue was "Greed is good?" as a way to ask a question that would then be debated back and forth and often exaggerated purposefully to draw contrasts and make points. The result of that is now widely available on the internet.
The opinions and views expressed in Fearless are just that; opinions and views. They are not CCP policy nor are they a reliable source of CCP views as a company. The employees who submitted articles to that newsletter did exactly what they were asked to do, write about theories and opinions from an exaggerated stand.
While it?s perfectly fine to disagree and attack CCP over policies or actions we take, we think it?s not cool how individuals that work here have been called out and dragged through the mud due to something they wrote in the internal company newsletter. Seriously, these people were doing their jobs and do not deserve the hate and shitstorm being pointed at them."
Read more: http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php/topic,146153.0/Fearless-virtual-goods-and-rage.html#ixzz1QEuTcwbx
Greed is Good wasn't a new objective, just food for thought. As for the prices, they covered that too, still not too happy about it, but it make ssense. It would alose a lot of its value and prestiege is everybody and their mother owned a monocle. Then hopefully they'll have a much more reasonable price range by the time WiS is fully released/
Fearless is one of our company values. It?s also the name of an internal newsletter that has been designed and developed specifically to catalyze discussions on controversial topics. One of the biggest elephants in the room these days, not just for EVE but for the gaming industry as a whole, is virtual goods sales and microtransactions.
Therefore we dedicated an entire issue to exactly that topic. It?s worth mentioning that the topic of the issue was "Greed is good?" as a way to ask a question that would then be debated back and forth and often exaggerated purposefully to draw contrasts and make points. The result of that is now widely available on the internet.
The opinions and views expressed in Fearless are just that; opinions and views. They are not CCP policy nor are they a reliable source of CCP views as a company. The employees who submitted articles to that newsletter did exactly what they were asked to do, write about theories and opinions from an exaggerated stand.
While it?s perfectly fine to disagree and attack CCP over policies or actions we take, we think it?s not cool how individuals that work here have been called out and dragged through the mud due to something they wrote in the internal company newsletter. Seriously, these people were doing their jobs and do not deserve the hate and shitstorm being pointed at them."
Read more: http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php/topic,146153.0/Fearless-virtual-goods-and-rage.html#ixzz1QEuTcwbx
Greed is Good wasn't a new objective, just food for thought. As for the prices, they covered that too, still not too happy about it, but it make ssense. It would alose a lot of its value and prestiege is everybody and their mother owned a monocle. Then hopefully they'll have a much more reasonable price range by the time WiS is fully released/