EvE Online Starbase Exploit

Recommended Videos

Caliostro

Headhunter
Jan 23, 2008
3,253
0
0
TrevorOfCrete said:
Theres a difference between exploitation and outright cheating. If there was a bug that littered the galaxy with high grade ships on sale for free would you ban anyone who bought one? In my view theres a massive difference to a unfair advantage purposly created by a player, and an unfair advantage that comes as a result of a bug. Both should be ironed out - yes, but banning people for the latter is not exactly justice in my opinion.
Straw man.

Hacks are just ways to exploit flaws too. The thing is, if you come across the flaw, you should report it and not exploit it. If you're exploiting it, you're consciously and willingly abusing a flaw for your own unfair advantage (i.e. acting like a douchebag) which really isn't any better than hacking the game, it's just simpler and requires less effort.

Saying that exploiting a bug is totally different from hacking is a fallacy: In both you're pro-actively abusing a flaw, in both you're getting an unfair advantage that was never meant to exist and in both you do so of free will. People who hack aren't banned because they built a hack, they're banned for using the hack to exploit the game, which is what "normal exploiters" do, except they just stumbled across a flaw that could be abused without creating a program for it.
 

Singing Gremlin

New member
Jan 16, 2008
1,222
0
0
Caliostro said:
Straw man.

Hacks are just ways to exploit flaws too. The thing is, if you come across the flaw, you should report it and not exploit it. If you're exploiting it, you're consciously and willingly abusing a flaw for your own unfair advantage (i.e. acting like a douchebag) which really isn't any better than hacking the game, it's just simpler and requires less effort.

Saying that exploiting a bug is totally different from hacking is a fallacy: In both you're pro-actively abusing a flaw, in both you're getting an unfair advantage that was never meant to exist and in both you do so of free will. People who hack aren't banned because they built a hack, they're banned for using the hack to exploit the game, which is what "normal exploiters" do, except they just stumbled across a flaw that could be abused without creating a program for it.
Good lord, you just defended CCP. Have the seas turned to blood?

I jest. And you're right, the programmers are not infallible and if a player discovers a bug that is obviously a bug and deliberately exploits it to effectively break the game mechanics, they deserve what they get.

SuperFriendBFG said:
Maelstrom and Typhoon. The typhoon was my torpedo boat, while my Maelstrom would lay down some heavy artillery fire. Both had armor tanking capabilities as well.
You armour tanked a mael? I've only shield tanked it. Armour tank any good?
 

Caliostro

Headhunter
Jan 23, 2008
3,253
0
0
Singing Gremlin said:
Good lord, you just defended CCP. Have the seas turned to blood?

I jest. And you're right, the programmers are not infallible and if a player discovers a bug that is obviously a bug and deliberately exploits it to effectively break the game mechanics, they deserve what they get.

I feel cold, and dead inside...I might be dying...

But seriously, I hate EVE, but that's why -I- don't play it. If people wanna play it that's their call. Hacking a game is just pathetic no matter how piss poor or amazing the game might be.
 

Laughing Man

New member
Oct 10, 2008
1,715
0
0
Straw man.

Hacks are just ways to exploit flaws too. The thing is, if you come across the flaw, you should report it and not exploit it.
However some of the stuff getting posted over at the EVE boards suggest that this 'exploit' was discovered and reported over three years ago.
 

Theo Samaritan

New member
Jul 16, 2008
1,382
0
0
I wasn't expecting this on here.

Some background infor for the non-eve players:
Moons can be mined for particular raw materials. The materials are fed into a reaction silo, activated, then left to simmer for a while until eventually (after a few reactions), advanced components used for the production of Tech 2 are produced.

Reactions from raw material to final product should be two to three. The exploit allowed people to skip not only the mining of the material, but also the required pre-reactions.

The reaction that was most exploited produced Ferrogel, a product that is used in the construction of Tech 2 ships specifically. Ferrogel can only be produced with access to the R64 moon class, the rarest in eve (1 in every 500 moons is R64, and they are only in very specific areas of space), thus it is one of the most expensive T2 produce. This is why it was exploited most.


OK, from what I have gathered with my many ties, the fallout of this has resulted in the following:

> Firstly, the only T2 prices likely to rise at all are the Ships, because most other T2 items do not use the exploited material. The actual price rise will be low because Ferrogel is only used in one or two of the items required for T2 ship production.

> Eventually, T2 ship prices will fall. This is due to the introduction of Alchemy by CCP (this was introduced before the exploit was officially recognised) which allows the use of a large number of more common moon minerals to substitute a small number of rare ones. This was brought in to help the Tech 2 market, which was still dominated largely by those who had access to legit R64 moons and Tech 2 Original Blueprints (only copies can be produced now).

> Only those in direct contact with the exploit were banned. CCP are taking the stance of plausible deny-ability, basically saying that the average T2 ship and material buyer was most likely unaware of the ill-gotten source of the wares.

>Only one or two of the major alliances were effected. out of the two, one of them has effectively closed down due to most of the members being banned. The other only had three or four who actively knew about it. Despite rumours, BoB were not very effected, as their profit comes from production of ships, the sale of loot and gathered from payments of rent. I believe only three BoB members were banned.

>CCP have changed their petition systems numerous times over the last five years and as of yet have been unable to confirm that it was reported 3 or 4 years ago. The people I have been speaking to said they don't know what the reaction will be if they find out somebody conveniently swept it under the table when it was originally reported, but they pity whoever it is when they catch up.

>CCP and the CSM (Council of Stellar Management - the EVE players officially backed council) have both confirmed that no CSM or CCP members have any relation to this exploit, or the use of this exploit.

Welcome to EVE
I find it interesting that people really dislike EVE but as soon as something that simply can't happen in another MMO appeared, everyone is staring at it through the bushes!
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
2,682
0
0
Singing Gremlin said:
Caliostro said:
Straw man.

Hacks are just ways to exploit flaws too. The thing is, if you come across the flaw, you should report it and not exploit it. If you're exploiting it, you're consciously and willingly abusing a flaw for your own unfair advantage (i.e. acting like a douchebag) which really isn't any better than hacking the game, it's just simpler and requires less effort.

Saying that exploiting a bug is totally different from hacking is a fallacy: In both you're pro-actively abusing a flaw, in both you're getting an unfair advantage that was never meant to exist and in both you do so of free will. People who hack aren't banned because they built a hack, they're banned for using the hack to exploit the game, which is what "normal exploiters" do, except they just stumbled across a flaw that could be abused without creating a program for it.
Good lord, you just defended CCP. Have the seas turned to blood?

I jest. And you're right, the programmers are not infallible and if a player discovers a bug that is obviously a bug and deliberately exploits it to effectively break the game mechanics, they deserve what they get.

SuperFriendBFG said:
Maelstrom and Typhoon. The typhoon was my torpedo boat, while my Maelstrom would lay down some heavy artillery fire. Both had armor tanking capabilities as well.
You armour tanked a mael? I've only shield tanked it. Armour tank any good?
It's not bad. Most Minmatar ships are armor tanks, so I didn't do much learning in shield tanking which is the primary reason for my decision. If I remember correctly there were at least a couple of ships in my fleet that could have made good shield tanks.
 

Lord_Ascendant

New member
Jan 14, 2008
2,909
0
0
good thing my entire fleet is Tech3 and has enough stuff to try and weather this....but I'm feeling the strain
 

TrevorOfCrete

New member
Jun 14, 2008
106
0
0
Caliostro said:
TrevorOfCrete said:
Theres a difference between exploitation and outright cheating. If there was a bug that littered the galaxy with high grade ships on sale for free would you ban anyone who bought one? In my view theres a massive difference to a unfair advantage purposly created by a player, and an unfair advantage that comes as a result of a bug. Both should be ironed out - yes, but banning people for the latter is not exactly justice in my opinion.
Straw man.

Hacks are just ways to exploit flaws too. The thing is, if you come across the flaw, you should report it and not exploit it. If you're exploiting it, you're consciously and willingly abusing a flaw for your own unfair advantage (i.e. acting like a douchebag) which really isn't any better than hacking the game, it's just simpler and requires less effort.

Saying that exploiting a bug is totally different from hacking is a fallacy: In both you're pro-actively abusing a flaw, in both you're getting an unfair advantage that was never meant to exist and in both you do so of free will. People who hack aren't banned because they built a hack, they're banned for using the hack to exploit the game, which is what "normal exploiters" do, except they just stumbled across a flaw that could be abused without creating a program for it.
I fail to agree. Both are, when you grind down to the hard fact, cheating. To this point i completely agree. I am not tryng to argue they are completely different, but to say both situations are completely the same is equally a fallacy.

This debate is almost comparable to that of theft, on one hand you have people who will willingly download albums/movies for free illegaly of the internet, the other people putting albums/movies inside there coat pocket inside of a shop. Many who openly comit the former would never dream of the latter. My belief is when an oppertunity is placed in front of someone which requires little work and is relativly risk free it becomes almost human nature to take it, ala torrents, shareware etc.. It could be seen this is similar to what has happened in Eve. People who normally would not go out of there way to cheat there way through the game find a glitch with such potetential that for some becomes impossable to ignore - it becomes to easy to not do. In these cases both are wrong, dont misunderstand me, but who is commiting the greater crime? In essence there exactly equal, they are afterall exactly the same crime. However in reality they are completely different when a 'bigger picture' is concidered. I have a wee problem fitting the punishment to the crime in this incident. I would like to highlight this is just my view, However it has sparked an interesting debate.

Having said this im not aware of the final details in this case and so am not completely sure just how easy it was to take advantage of this bug.

Also could you please explain the significane of "Straw man", i dont understand.
 

Caliostro

Headhunter
Jan 23, 2008
3,253
0
0
TrevorOfCrete said:
I fail to agree. Both are, when you grind down to the hard fact, cheating. To this point i completely agree. I am not tryng to argue they are completely different, but to say both situations are completely the same is equally a fallacy.

This debate is almost comparable to that of theft, on one hand you have people who will willingly download albums/movies for free illegaly of the internet, the other people putting albums/movies inside there coat pocket inside of a shop. Many who openly comit the former would never dream of the latter. My belief is when an oppertunity is placed in front of someone which requires little work and is relativly risk free it becomes almost human nature to take it, ala torrents, shareware etc.. It could be seen this is similar to what has happened in Eve. People who normally would not go out of there way to cheat there way through the game find a glitch with such potetential that for some becomes impossable to ignore - it becomes to easy to not do. In these cases both are wrong, dont misunderstand me, but who is commiting the greater crime? In essence there exactly equal, they are afterall exactly the same crime. However in reality they are completely different when a 'bigger picture' is concidered. I have a wee problem fitting the punishment to the crime in this incident. I would like to highlight this is just my view, However it has sparked an interesting debate.

Having said this im not aware of the final details in this case and so am not completely sure just how easy it was to take advantage of this bug.

Also could you please explain the significane of "Straw man", i dont understand.
Straw Man [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man].

The piracy "would you steal a car!?!?" bullshit is equally a straw man. If you steal a car the person you stole the car from is at a loss. The company that made the car looses nothing, so you're doing damage by removing an item from someone for yourself. Piracy is about copying. The company that made the game doesn't even loose money, it looses a probability of the hypothetical chance to make money. It's not really as clear cut as "every copy downloaded is a copy not sold" bullshit shitty companies like EA would have you believe.

This case is far different. The point isn't HOW you exploit something. It's that you DO exploit it. If there was a way to exploit a bug to give infinite money, or a way to hack infinite money, what's the difference? The end result, the damage is the exact same.
 

TrevorOfCrete

New member
Jun 14, 2008
106
0
0
The piracy "would you steal a car!?!?" bullshit is equally a straw man. If you steal a car the person you stole the car from is at a loss. The company that made the car looses nothing, so you're doing damage by removing an item from someone for yourself. Piracy is about copying. The company that made the game doesn't even loose money, it looses a probability of the hypothetical chance to make money. It's not really as clear cut as "every copy downloaded is a copy not sold" bullshit shitty companies like EA would have you believe.

This case is far different. The point isn't HOW you exploit something. It's that you DO exploit it. If there was a way to exploit a bug to give infinite money, or a way to hack infinite money, what's the difference? The end result, the damage is the exact same.
It seems we have hit the end of the debate, it will just go in circles and it will carry this thread well off topic. We just dont agree, and i really cant agree that my points are 'straw mans', but its your right to think they are.
 

Ursus Astrorum

New member
Mar 20, 2008
1,574
0
0
Good god, all the technical jargon from the players sounds so geeky it's not even funny...


... I love it. Damn you Escapists, making me try another game!
 

Theo Samaritan

New member
Jul 16, 2008
1,382
0
0
Michael_McCloud said:
Good god, all the technical jargon from the players sounds so geeky it's not even funny...


... I love it. Damn you Escapists, making me try another game!
Feel free, we have a steam group somewhere (there is a topic in the last couple of pages of Gaming Discussion)
 

Singing Gremlin

New member
Jan 16, 2008
1,222
0
0
SuperFriendBFG said:
Singing Gremlin said:
You armour tanked a mael? I've only shield tanked it. Armour tank any good?
It's not bad. Most Minmatar ships are armor tanks, so I didn't do much learning in shield tanking which is the primary reason for my decision. If I remember correctly there were at least a couple of ships in my fleet that could have made good shield tanks.
Yeah, I originally set up my mael with armour tanking, since that's where my skills were, but swapped it over to a shield tank, and that freed up all my low slots for lots of gyro and tracking enhancer goodness. Combine that with a full suite of highest calibre large arties and it is lurrrvely.