Everything You Know about Anime Is Wrong

[Casual Shinji]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy.

Berserk

It's still ongoing and it kinda sucks now, but volume 1 to 22 is absolute gold. Given you don't have a weak stomach.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

Again, you're missing what the word otaku actually means.

Yes, it does mean geek, but that's not why the word carries negative connotations.

It means you like anime/video game to the exclusion of everything else.

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

Exactly what I'm getting at here. I think if I were to ever start up a geek forum, I'd make it so "Otaku" was caught by the word filter and changed to "neckbeard," because it's an English word that carries the exact same negative connotation that "otaku" does in Japan.

 

[Kuroneko97]

Huh. This was an interesting read. Lately I haven't been watching much anime, But this season I've already omitted the ones that look like shit. I almost always avoid harems unless I'm in the mood for something raunchy, yet I don't want to watch porn.

Lately I've just been stuck watching Comedy Central and typing stories, and lately I've started playing Starcraft with my friend. And reading Magico, which I hope gets an anime adaptation.

Juding by your avatar, you're a fan of Madoka? Did you like it's art style? If so, check out anything done by studio SHAFT (Bakemonogatari, MariaHolic, And Yet the Town Moves, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei etc), because imaginative, creative, unique visuals is kinda their thing.

I am, thank you for noticing. As for that list, I've seen Bakemonogatari (partially), Maria+Holic, and the first episode of Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei.

Yeah, I've come to expect good things from Shaft.

 

[Arina Love]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

Again, you're missing what the word otaku actually means.

Yes, it does mean geek, but that's not why the word carries negative connotations.

It means you like anime/video game to the exclusion of everything else.

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

not everyone, stop generalising. yes there is still some people that think so but not everyone far from it. and to the exclusion of everything else is old description, modern one is "people with obsessive interests" it does not indicate that otaku never leave house and neglect bathing.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

Again, you're missing what the word otaku actually means.

Yes, it does mean geek, but that's not why the word carries negative connotations.

It means you like anime/video game to the exclusion of everything else.

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

not everyone, stop generalising. yes there is still some people that think so but not everyone far from it. and to the exclusion of everything else is old description, modern one is "people with obsessive interests" it does not indicate that otaku never leave house and neglect bathing.

There is no modern description, no matter how much you want there to be one. Otakus are considered neckbearded man-children. I'm not making a generalisation, because I know that not all anime fans are neckbearded man-children, but identifying yourself as an otaku, whether you want it to or not, means people are going to consider you an obsessive social recluse.

 

[Arina Love]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

Again, you're missing what the word otaku actually means.

Yes, it does mean geek, but that's not why the word carries negative connotations.

It means you like anime/video game to the exclusion of everything else.

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

not everyone, stop generalising. yes there is still some people that think so but not everyone far from it. and to the exclusion of everything else is old description, modern one is "people with obsessive interests" it does not indicate that otaku never leave house and neglect bathing.

There is no modern description, no matter how much you want there to be one. Otakus are considered neckbearded man-children. I'm not making a generalisation, because I know that not all anime fans are neckbearded man-children, but identifying yourself as an otaku, whether you want it to or not, means people are going to consider you an obsessive social recluse.

no, they not, at large. Some people do think it so but this stigma receding rapidly and i know it.

 

[evilneko]

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

Last I knew otaku and hikikomori weren't synonymous...

 

[Arina Love]

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

Last I knew otaku and hikikomori weren't synonymous...

very good point! i completely forgot about this word.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

Again, you're missing what the word otaku actually means.

Yes, it does mean geek, but that's not why the word carries negative connotations.

It means you like anime/video game to the exclusion of everything else.

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

not everyone, stop generalising. yes there is still some people that think so but not everyone far from it. and to the exclusion of everything else is old description, modern one is "people with obsessive interests" it does not indicate that otaku never leave house and neglect bathing.

There is no modern description, no matter how much you want there to be one. Otakus are considered neckbearded man-children. I'm not making a generalisation, because I know that not all anime fans are neckbearded man-children, but identifying yourself as an otaku, whether you want it to or not, means people are going to consider you an obsessive social recluse.

no they not at large. Some people do think it so but this stigma receding rapidly and i know it.

You know it?

How do you know it exactly? Are you Japanese? Do you live in Japan? Do you socialise with Japanese people who aren't huge anime fans? Do you even speak the language?

I've been to Spain, but I don't claim to know anything about language trends or cultural stigma variations.

I have nothing to lose in this argument, I couldn't give a toss what otaku means, I do give a toss when people start throwing around words when they don't know what they mean.

 

[Arina Love]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

Again, you're missing what the word otaku actually means.

Yes, it does mean geek, but that's not why the word carries negative connotations.

It means you like anime/video game to the exclusion of everything else.

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

not everyone, stop generalising. yes there is still some people that think so but not everyone far from it. and to the exclusion of everything else is old description, modern one is "people with obsessive interests" it does not indicate that otaku never leave house and neglect bathing.

There is no modern description, no matter how much you want there to be one. Otakus are considered neckbearded man-children. I'm not making a generalisation, because I know that not all anime fans are neckbearded man-children, but identifying yourself as an otaku, whether you want it to or not, means people are going to consider you an obsessive social recluse.

no they not at large. Some people do think it so but this stigma receding rapidly and i know it.

You know it?

How do you know it exactly. Are you Japanese? Do you live in Japan? Do you socialise with Japanese people who aren't huge anime fans? Do you even speak the language?

I've been to Spain, but I don't claim to know anything about language trends or cultural stigma variations.

I have nothing to lose in this argument, I couldn't give a toss what otaku means, I do give a toss when people start throwing around words when they don't know what they mean.

yes i know language i socialise with Japanese people 80%\20% otaku\non-otaku, and i lived in Japan for 1 year. you confuse hikikomori with otaku, and thus only one here that don't now what this word mean is you. otaku is obsessed with something very close meaning to a geek end of story. hikikomori is execrably what you are describing here.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

Last I knew otaku and hikikomori weren't synonymous...

Look, I don't speak the language, I'm just basically repeating what my friend said a few weeks back. He's an English teacher in Japan and teaches Japanese people from all walks of life.

I asked him this very question because I was unsure about it myself.

I too, once thought that an otaku just meant 'anime/videogame fan' but he told me that if anyone identified themselves as otaku, especially if they were proud about it, they would get many strange looks.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

Again, you're missing what the word otaku actually means.

Yes, it does mean geek, but that's not why the word carries negative connotations.

It means you like anime/video game to the exclusion of everything else.

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

not everyone, stop generalising. yes there is still some people that think so but not everyone far from it. and to the exclusion of everything else is old description, modern one is "people with obsessive interests" it does not indicate that otaku never leave house and neglect bathing.

There is no modern description, no matter how much you want there to be one. Otakus are considered neckbearded man-children. I'm not making a generalisation, because I know that not all anime fans are neckbearded man-children, but identifying yourself as an otaku, whether you want it to or not, means people are going to consider you an obsessive social recluse.

no they not at large. Some people do think it so but this stigma receding rapidly and i know it.

You know it?

How do you know it exactly. Are you Japanese? Do you live in Japan? Do you socialise with Japanese people who aren't huge anime fans? Do you even speak the language?

I've been to Spain, but I don't claim to know anything about language trends or cultural stigma variations.

I have nothing to lose in this argument, I couldn't give a toss what otaku means, I do give a toss when people start throwing around words when they don't know what they mean.

yes i know language i socialise with Japanese people 80%\20% otaku\non-otaku, and i lived in Japan for 1 year. you confuse hikikomori with otaku, and thus only one here that don't now what this word mean is you. otaku is obsessed with something very close meaning to a geek end of story. hikikomori is execrably what you are describing here.

Well, considering I have no way to disprove your claim, I'll have to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Strikes me as odd that someone who 'knows the language' would completely forget a term (hikikmori) in a debate like this.

But hey, benefit of the doubt.

 

[RedDeadFred]

I watched the entire series of Death Note (which all anime lovers seem to say is amazing) and I thought it was... alright. If it had ended after the first season it would have been pretty much perfect (the only thing I didn't like occasionally were how wildly L sometimes jumped to the right conclusion when there really wasn't enough evidence) but instead they brought in the second season and I must say, it just about ruined the show for me.

I've tried a couple others but so many of them just seem too outlandish and filled with characters I cannot relate to at all. I could relate to Kira because we had similar ideas but then he goes absolutely batshit insane. No that wasn't the problem I had with the show I'm just stating that so no one thinks I relate to a serial killer.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

M'kay. I don't like anime because I've yet to see anything impressive in that medium. I'm not impressed by North American stuff, either, so don't take it so personally.

 

[Arina Love]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

Again, you're missing what the word otaku actually means.

Yes, it does mean geek, but that's not why the word carries negative connotations.

It means you like anime/video game to the exclusion of everything else.

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

not everyone, stop generalising. yes there is still some people that think so but not everyone far from it. and to the exclusion of everything else is old description, modern one is "people with obsessive interests" it does not indicate that otaku never leave house and neglect bathing.

There is no modern description, no matter how much you want there to be one. Otakus are considered neckbearded man-children. I'm not making a generalisation, because I know that not all anime fans are neckbearded man-children, but identifying yourself as an otaku, whether you want it to or not, means people are going to consider you an obsessive social recluse.

no they not at large. Some people do think it so but this stigma receding rapidly and i know it.

You know it?

How do you know it exactly. Are you Japanese? Do you live in Japan? Do you socialise with Japanese people who aren't huge anime fans? Do you even speak the language?

I've been to Spain, but I don't claim to know anything about language trends or cultural stigma variations.

I have nothing to lose in this argument, I couldn't give a toss what otaku means, I do give a toss when people start throwing around words when they don't know what they mean.

yes i know language i socialise with Japanese people 80%\20% otaku\non-otaku, and i lived in Japan for 1 year. you confuse hikikomori with otaku, and thus only one here that don't now what this word mean is you. otaku is obsessed with something very close meaning to a geek end of story. hikikomori is execrably what you are describing here.

Well, considering I have no way to disprove your claim, I'll have to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Strikes me as odd that someone who 'knows the language' would completely forget a term (hikikmori) in a debate like this.

But hey, benefit of the doubt.

Well i have to hold Russian English and Japanese in my head, and i use all of them every day, so i forget words quite often especially ones that i don't use everyday like hikikomori.

 

[Bealzibob]

It's a good post but you've said nothing I didn't already know.

Personally I can't stand anime fans and I'm indiferent to the medium but I watch a shit tonne of anime because of the genres and stories it attracts. I couldn't watch 440 different anime if I tried because so far in my grazings I've only reach about 50 anime and already i'm running out of worthwhile stuff and instead left with the low budget fluff anime. I'm also not fond of the slice of life/school genre which limits everything a bit.

I havn't personally seen the prevalance of anime "haters" but then again I do avoid large hubs of anime fan (and there subsequent trolls) because like anime itself 90% of the fandom is disreputable.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

Again, you're missing what the word otaku actually means.

Yes, it does mean geek, but that's not why the word carries negative connotations.

It means you like anime/video game to the exclusion of everything else.

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.

not everyone, stop generalising. yes there is still some people that think so but not everyone far from it. and to the exclusion of everything else is old description, modern one is "people with obsessive interests" it does not indicate that otaku never leave house and neglect bathing.

There is no modern description, no matter how much you want there to be one. Otakus are considered neckbearded man-children. I'm not making a generalisation, because I know that not all anime fans are neckbearded man-children, but identifying yourself as an otaku, whether you want it to or not, means people are going to consider you an obsessive social recluse.

no they not at large. Some people do think it so but this stigma receding rapidly and i know it.

You know it?

How do you know it exactly. Are you Japanese? Do you live in Japan? Do you socialise with Japanese people who aren't huge anime fans? Do you even speak the language?

I've been to Spain, but I don't claim to know anything about language trends or cultural stigma variations.

I have nothing to lose in this argument, I couldn't give a toss what otaku means, I do give a toss when people start throwing around words when they don't know what they mean.

yes i know language i socialise with Japanese people 80%\20% otaku\non-otaku, and i lived in Japan for 1 year. you confuse hikikomori with otaku, and thus only one here that don't now what this word mean is you. otaku is obsessed with something very close meaning to a geek end of story. hikikomori is execrably what you are describing here.

Well, considering I have no way to disprove your claim, I'll have to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Strikes me as odd that someone who 'knows the language' would completely forget a term (hikikmori) in a debate like this.

But hey, benefit of the doubt.

Well i have to hold Russian English and Japanese in my head, and i use all of them every day, so i forget words quite often.

Like I said, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm more inclined to believe my friend, but it's not like he's an expert on all that is Japanese.

I'm not stubborn enough or self centered enough to flail my arms attempting to 'win' a debate when I don't really have an interest in the subject matter.

 

[boag]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy.

Berserk

It's still ongoing and it kinda sucks now, but volume 1 to 22 is absolute gold. Given you don't have a weak stomach.

Just because Guts is running around with a new crew, and it takes months for a new chapter doesnt mean it sucks now.

People have just been spoiled that they were able to breeze through the entire Golden Age arc, without having to endure the months it took between chapters.

If this was 20 years ago, people would be complaining about how shit berserk is because nothing ever happens and its just people talking all the time, when the first arc showed guts battling a demon slug.

 

[LightspeedJack]

Good stuff! I hate to say it but I did kinda know pretty much everything you detailed in this article but it was an enjoyable read all the same. On an unrelated note I managed to read all of this during the credits of Uncharted 3 that I just finished. Boy that game has some long ass credits.

 

[Contradiction]

Dear OP
The article you posted seems to be a little less than objective on the subject. So I will address the obvious issues in the order of which they occur.
1
Saying that anime is ANYWHERE near the rejection and nigh on hate that furries have dealt with is laughable. Considering further that most of the posters were anime fans I'm also quite sure that most of that 'gamer anime' crowd which has supposedly dispersed still exists.
2
'Feel free to disagree to your peril...' really...
3
The 'Haters' usaully have a good reason to hate something. I mean no one would have begun to hate Anime/Furries/Bronies until they started drawing undue attention to themselves (all three do whether 'anime is superior in story and animation to the west' 'No but I'm really a wolf inside' 'or Love and tolerance and Off topic spam'.
Deny it all you want but there are people, obnoxious people, who define themselves by something you like and will and effect, whether right or wrong, peoples perception of you and your interest (be it anthro anime or ponies).
4
'ANIME IS NOT A GENRE' okay, 'ANIME IS A MEDIUM' ohh and you were doing so well. As provided by your convenient comparison pictures I can safely say that Anime seems to under go quite a few different production methods. They vary greatly but one could also say that it had one general method... ANIMATION. ANIMATION is a medium Anime is at best a format and if not even that quite simply, nothing more or less, ANIMATIONS THAT COME FROM JAPAN.
5
Your concept of animation variation although quite valid is flawed in a few but crucial ways.
The author mentions, after the fact, that yes they are all same-samey for whatever reason (it isn't relevent). Obviously after 400+ series the author WOULD in fact know that PSwG is based on American animation and omitted that fact intentionally, belittling their point to animation variation in Anime. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the top and third images however I'd say 80% chance that they are influenced by other "mediums" as the Author would describe them.
6
Saying that 'Oh no American animation is getting better look at all the "mature shows" yeah.' Does not discredit you from the whole American animation is shit thought pattern. If anything it solidifies the concept that you discredit anything that isn't supposedly mature and edgy. Just because anime says its for adults doesn't change the fact a huge number of its fans watch childish and often immature anime be it Moe or otherwise. I won't bother with recommendations but there are cartoons that take on subjects with comedy while keeping quite a mature sub text... but cartoons are just for kids right..? Obviously mature to you is 'Monster' and 'Deathnote' which makes it seems like you simpley want something atrificially deep and edgey.
7
BoonDocks as an example for serious and mature... Related picture of Rukus... Could it be because he watches anime...
Sorry but one for the road:
Controversial and mature aren't the same thing. Just because the people are animated realisticly doesn't give its gags a 'holier than thou' quality over all the animations you listed (and some you didn't) it is simply another social commentary and satire.
8
Comapring Simpsons to FMA is unjust. Simpsons is a juggernaut even in the west don't be so petty. I doubt that many cartoons produced outside of Japan can match FMA so readiliy.

That being said, I like Anime. Just stop justifying your interest because all you do is make it sound like something its not. Its not some art work to be admired in a museum, it is quite simply, something that is enjoyable to the viewer.