Casual Shinji said:
boag said:
Casual Shinji said:
Elmoth said:
Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy.
Berserk
It's still ongoing and it kinda sucks now, but volume 1 to 22 is absolute gold. Given you don't have a weak stomach.
Just because Guts is running around with a new crew, and it takes months for a new chapter doesnt mean it sucks now.
People have just been spoiled that they were able to breeze through the entire Golden Age arc, without having to endure the months it took between chapters.
If this was 20 years ago, people would be complaining about how shit berserk is because nothing ever happens and its just people talking all the time, when the first arc showed guts battling a demon slug.
I really don't mind the new crew at all. I actually think that Miura handled the page time of each character very well.
Three things I dislike about
Berserk now, which all started after the Tower of Conviction arc:
1) Farnese's character shift. She was probably my favourite female character in the whole story because she was just so darn fucked up and complex. She's filled with fears, but instead of fighting them she chooses to give herself over to them in the hope to find comfort and peace of mind. It even fuels her sexual desire to the point where she mastrubates at the thought of people burning alive at the stake. So it's pretty clear that that shit runs pretty deep.
But then after the Tower of Conviction she simply decides to not be fucked up anymore and becomes the shy and demure heroine who tries to find the power within herself. *barf* She basically becomes Orihime from
Bleach.
Then it gets even better when she wants to be trained in magic. Not out of the insane, twisted curiosity brought on by fear she used to have, but because of genuine admiration. And this girl was as aggressively religious as they come. For her there was no way but the Vatican way. Sure, it was out of fear and confusion, but if it runs deep enough to fuel your sexual desire you don't just switch that off.
2) Guts' mild manners. Now I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss Guts' old cruel self just a little bit, but it goes beyond that. He just seems to have lost his passion. Whether he was a cruel mad dog killer, a little kid trying to impress his "father", or a raiders captain, there was always a fire and an energy to him and this kinda disappeared in and around volume 23. This is only a minor dislike though.
3) The Berserk armor. Words cannot discibe how much I fucking hate the inclusion of this stupid thing and how it almost totally destroys what made Guts such a compelling charater, but I'll try anyway.
To put it simply, the Berserk armor adds a deus ex machina situation to
Berserk when the story was always above that sort of thing. Guts' struggle was so involving because he's a human being taking on the forces of hell with his own strength alone; No magic or demonic curse like in
Naruto or
Bleach, but his own muscles and training. Sure, it was an inhuman strength, but he earned it throughout the many years on the battlefield. Whatever didn't kill him made him stronger, and he had encountered many horifying creatures who seemed way out of his league. But through cunning, strength, and pushing himself to his physical and mental limits he ultimately conquered his opponent, usually at the expense of his sanity.
From the moment he got raped as a child to the moment he was pinned down by demons watching Casca get raped by his former best friend turned demon god, he vowed to never let any opponent get the best of him ever again, no matter the cost. Even if it meant going insane, or losing his arm he would never let anyone dominate him whether it be human, demon, or god.
The Berserk armor ruines all that, because now whenever Guts is in a situation he can't handle he just swithces on the armor and he just breezes through the fight like it was nothing. No tension, no sense of gratification or victory, nothing.
I don't dislike everything from volume 22/23 on though. I actually really liked how the concept of magic and witches was done. It felt way more interesting and involving then anything I've ever seen in
Harry Potter.
I love having a Good Berserk Discussion, thank you for letting me indulge in it
ok on Farnesse, The Tower of Conviction was the breaking point of her long held beliefs, which were built on the foundation of Pleasing her Daddy.
Remember that Farnesse wasnt always the stalwart of the Church, she was a wild Child that her Father slowly had to cage, when she started going out to burn people for the Church and received praise for it, she finally thought that her Father would acknowledge her. Also Remember that she became the Shield Maiden, because Serpico refused to elope with her, she fell back into something that would make her feel safe and appreciated.
The Masturbation scene wasnt about her religious beliefs, in fact I dont think she ever held them in high steem, she was lying to herself in an effort to keep up the charade, which was broken when Mosgus, the epitome of the self sanctioning and abusive church, was transformed by the egg apostle and subsequently was defeated in battle by Guts, the guy that she had been tracking for years and was the antithesis of her supposed church duties.
Furthermore, when her mask broke, she was left again with nothing, and she tried to cling to the only thing that seemed real to her, the only thing that was able to survive the nightmare that was the Tower of conviction. You have to realize the Tower the worst thing anyone could ever see, it was just as traumatic for the people that survived it, as the Eclipse was to Guts, people do change after these types of events, if you dont believe that, go ask a Tsunami survivor how their focus on life is now.
Lastly on Farnesse, delving into magic, it was a another character building arc that spawned across several plot arcs, her first interaction with Guts, he tells her they will be a burden to him and that he is already tied up with Caska, she tries to help out by taking care of Caska and Guts becomes dependant on this. When they got trapped by Trolls, Farnesses once again faces not being able to protect Caska without Guts around, this happens again when they reach Vandimion state and she gives herself over, thinking that the best thing she can do is sacrifice her freedom for letting Guts go on her Journey. None of these things are easy, specially for a wild spirit like Farnesse, the inclusion of her wanting to become a witch is because a sense of admiration she has towards Shierke, who has always lived a happy life of freedom, and she wants to use this power to protect Caska, Guts and the rest of the crew she has developed a relation with.
On to Guts not having his fire anymore.
You have to understand, the fire rage and mad dog attitude have now become his enemy, he is constantly trying to keep his rage in check, because of what happened when he got taken over and hurt Caska. This has weighed heavily on him, because he was able to open up to Caska about his own trauma, and she accepted him, he went on a revenge rampage because of Caska, its central to the character. The constant battle of wills between him and the Demon Dog has worn him out, there is also the encounter with Slaan, that basically crush his spirit, to the point where the Skull plot dev... Knight had to rescue him a second time. which leads me into the 3rd point.
The armor, yes it is a plot device, yet its a plot device that doesnt give him the instant win ability that plagues Shonen. This thing is a cursed item for a reason, no eating him alive from the inside isnt the main reason, its because it has finally given the Demon Dog a physical Form, it has been shown every time he used it, that he is losing more and more control, even now with Shierke on his side its a losing battle, because the Demon Dog is getting stronger and stronger. The armor has become as much weight as a crutch, he doesnt want to use it, and his core group know he shouldnt use it, that is why he asked Serpico to kill him in case he fully loses it.
Guts hasnt lost his continous struggle for survival, its just that it has changed dramatically, from a physical battle to a spiritual one as well, with fits in the themes of the story, since now the world has been united with 2 more planes of existance, and reality as a whole has been altered.
You should have realized that Berserk was going to be a Fantasy story, from the moment the Count transformed into the Snake Apostle in the first arc, heck when you should have known when shota fairy was introduced.
