Evolve Dev: "I Don't Like People Thinking We're Doing Dirty, Underhanded S***"

Kajin

This Title Will Be Gone Soon
Apr 13, 2008
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Prankman said:
Not sure if it's been mentioned, as I've only skimmed the thread, so forgive me if I'm echoing here, but I do want to clarify that the fourth Monster that you get free for pre-ordering is not day one DLC. It's more comparable to the Mechromancer with Borderlands 2; if you preorder, you get a DLC character for free post-launch when it's complete. Everybody else pays for it, but everybody gets it at the same time.

Behemoth's little released footage shows missing animations and untextured, incomplete attacks that have probably not been balance tested yet, either, so it's definitely not complete content being cut from the game, and the rest of the planned DLC probably isn't even at that prototype stage yet.

Of course, the fact that this wasn't made properly clear in a majority of the marketing how this stuff works is just further proof of how godawful it's been. I've followed Evolve since Spring of last year and have been able to try both the Big Alpha and Beta, and have seen the inside information on the forums from the devs, so I've been able to see the game minus it's shady marketing attached, which is why I'll continue to support it. The marketing has been absolutely terrible about how they've handled things though. The free maps, free game modes, unsplit community and ability to test-drive DLC characters are all being swept under the rug to promote the paid DLC. And yes, you can try DLC characters before buying them. If you join a game in progress, the game will have a chance to drop you on a DLC character, and the devs are promoting doing this in custom games with friends who own the DLC so you can try before you buy. They're also posting telemetry data on the forums and even have patch notes with changes made after the Beta for a day one patch, and are extraordinarily active on the forums asking the community there for ideas and answering questions. And if you ask them about damage data? They'll end up posting charts and exact damage calculations. The devs are absurdly informative there.

Not that you'd ever know this without scrubbing the forums, because the marketing seems to be allergic to promoting any actual cool features in favor of pushing pre-orders.
That right there confirms every single one of the suspicions I've had, in that all of this is outrage is the direct result of horribly mismanaged marketing. Thanks, Prankman. I doubt anyone else here will listen to you, but thanks.
 

bdcjacko

Gone Fonzy
Jun 9, 2010
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Atmos Duality said:
bdcjacko said:
How dare anyone put a price on luxury goods. They should be given away for free.
How dare anyone notice said luxuries being sold as less-for-more offerings based on blind faith.
They should be happy with whatever they're offered.
Anyone that puts blind faith into a product or company deserves what they get.

BTW, I am on the side of voting with your wallet, but not making a big stink out of it. I don't fault companies for trying to money, that is what they do. I just know how to plan around it.
 

Atmos Duality

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Mar 3, 2010
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bdcjacko said:
Anyone that puts blind faith into a product or company deserves what they get.
Agreed.
Though that only reinforces why being vocal about shady business practices is useful.

BTW, I am on the side of voting with your wallet, but not making a big stink out of it. I don't fault companies for trying to money, that is what they do. I just know how to plan around it.
I'm a bit more discerning.
If profit was the only criteria I cared about, I might as well be advocating organized crime.
 

thehorror2

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Jan 25, 2010
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I really don't like where DLC practices have been going during the transition from the last gen to this one. Previous gen, there weren't too many games with DLC that filled in the main game (ME3 keeping the Leviathan plot details for DLC was a notable exception, but the game stands fine without it), generally saving side-treks and in some rare cases character analysis work like Left Behind for Last of Us. This gen is looking more and more like publishers are making up for not raising prices by $10 like they did last gen by feeding us an average of $20 of "extra content" per game. Holy crap, I've cracked the code!
 

Denamic

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Aug 19, 2009
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bdcjacko said:
Denamic said:
bdcjacko said:
Denamic said:
bdcjacko said:
How dare anyone put a price on luxury goods. They should be given away for free.
Yes. That is pretty much what should be the case with a full priced game like this. Free content patches used to be the norm, even for some free to play games. Holding content hostage is not okay.
I think you misunderstood my point. I was stating that video games are a luxury item because they are in no way a necessity to live. And I posed my statement ironically to highlight what a silly notion it is to get bent out of shape that a brand new video game is being priced like the luxury item it is.

Seriously if the fact that a game company announced that a game is going to have DLC and expansion packs (things that have been fairly standard for the past 15 years) gets people passed off really says how little real problems our society has.
I did not miss your point; I ignored it and responded to what you said instead. If we can't complain about things because there's more important issues elsewhere, we basically couldn't complain about anything. You couldn't be complaining about other people complaining about things you don't consider important enough to complain about, for example.
Don't use your reverse psychology on me. Quit complaining and just find a game you find worth your time/money.
Reverse psychology? I'm just using your own logic against you. That's completely different.
 

Lono Shrugged

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May 7, 2009
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I am not buying this game because of it's fucked up pre-order crap. If I can't enjoy a game for full price and need to pay money for non aesthetic DLC at release. Putting my foot down.
 

Lightspeaker

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Dec 31, 2011
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bdcjacko said:
Atmos Duality said:
bdcjacko said:
How dare anyone put a price on luxury goods. They should be given away for free.
How dare anyone notice said luxuries being sold as less-for-more offerings based on blind faith.
They should be happy with whatever they're offered.
Anyone that puts blind faith into a product or company deserves what they get.

BTW, I am on the side of voting with your wallet, but not making a big stink out of it. I don't fault companies for trying to money, that is what they do. I just know how to plan around it.
This argument is absurd. I'm not their friend, I'm a prospective customer and so is everyone else here. I don't have to keep quiet about something I don't like from a company who SHOULD be trying to appeal to and appease me; I'm not the one supposed to be appeasing them by pretending all is happy and fine. If you "shut up and vote with your wallet" (to paraphrase) then how in the living hell is a company supposed to know why some people aren't buying it? Guess?
 

bdcjacko

Gone Fonzy
Jun 9, 2010
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Atmos Duality said:
bdcjacko said:
Anyone that puts blind faith into a product or company deserves what they get.
Agreed.
Though that only reinforces why being vocal about shady business practices is useful.

BTW, I am on the side of voting with your wallet, but not making a big stink out of it. I don't fault companies for trying to money, that is what they do. I just know how to plan around it.
I'm a bit more discerning.
If profit was the only criteria I cared about, I might as well be advocating organized crime.
But it isn't shady. They flat out told you they are building it from the ground up there will be dlc.
 

bdcjacko

Gone Fonzy
Jun 9, 2010
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Lightspeaker said:
bdcjacko said:
Atmos Duality said:
bdcjacko said:
How dare anyone put a price on luxury goods. They should be given away for free.
How dare anyone notice said luxuries being sold as less-for-more offerings based on blind faith.
They should be happy with whatever they're offered.
Anyone that puts blind faith into a product or company deserves what they get.

BTW, I am on the side of voting with your wallet, but not making a big stink out of it. I don't fault companies for trying to money, that is what they do. I just know how to plan around it.
This argument is absurd. I'm not their friend, I'm a prospective customer and so is everyone else here. I don't have to keep quiet about something I don't like from a company who SHOULD be trying to appeal to and appease me; I'm not the one supposed to be appeasing them by pretending all is happy and fine. If you "shut up and vote with your wallet" (to paraphrase) then how in the living hell is a company supposed to know why some people aren't buying it? Guess?
Then inform them directly if you feel that strongly. Also who ever said you were their friend? You are there customer, and it is their job to get as much money from you as possible. This case they actually explain they are doing this through dlc.
 

Atmos Duality

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Mar 3, 2010
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bdcjacko said:
But it isn't shady. They flat out told you they are building it from the ground up there will be dlc.
Selling pre-orders is an iffy affair already; selling the game more on the promise of its future content rather than its initial content is plenty shady if you ask me.

I don't have to like it, and I don't have to stay quiet about why I don't like it just because it bothers you or anyone.
 

VoidOfOne

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Aug 14, 2013
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It is a shame how much DLC became a dirty term. And many people saw it on the onset, that publishers and developers would use this in a way such that in order to feel like you have a complete game, you have to buy the main game and then buy all the "extra" content that comes with it.

Honestly, I have no interest in Evolve, and even less so. It is always true that the buyer should beware of what the seller is peddling, but this in no way excuses the seller in what they offer and how they offer it.
 

zellosoli

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Aug 22, 2011
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bdcjacko said:
Lightspeaker said:
bdcjacko said:
Atmos Duality said:
bdcjacko said:
How dare anyone put a price on luxury goods. They should be given away for free.
How dare anyone notice said luxuries being sold as less-for-more offerings based on blind faith.
They should be happy with whatever they're offered.
Anyone that puts blind faith into a product or company deserves what they get.

BTW, I am on the side of voting with your wallet, but not making a big stink out of it. I don't fault companies for trying to money, that is what they do. I just know how to plan around it.
This argument is absurd. I'm not their friend, I'm a prospective customer and so is everyone else here. I don't have to keep quiet about something I don't like from a company who SHOULD be trying to appeal to and appease me; I'm not the one supposed to be appeasing them by pretending all is happy and fine. If you "shut up and vote with your wallet" (to paraphrase) then how in the living hell is a company supposed to know why some people aren't buying it? Guess?
Then inform them directly if you feel that strongly. Also who ever said you were their friend? You are there customer, and it is their job to get as much money from you as possible. This case they actually explain they are doing this through dlc.
actually, its their job to provide a product or a service at a fair and reasonable rate, trying to make as much out of a potential customer makes it sound like they are price fixing and gouging which, while not illegal, is shady as f*** and generally seen as dirty and greedy. can they do it, sure, but people are not wrong for calling them out on it.
 

Miles Maldonado

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Oct 11, 2011
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As I read this article, I read it as "We want to make a super awesome game but more business-minded people who really want absolute maximum profit twisted our arms to add this stuff that we really didn't want to add in."
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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"I Don't Like People Thinking We're Doing Dirty, Underhanded S***"
I got a tip for you: Stop doing Dirty Underhanded shit. see how simple it turned out to be?

Our plan is one we pushed for as consumers. Never split the community, no pay to win, all that kind of bullshit that are hallmarks of DLC plans specifically made to leech money out of people."
well, then, you have failed to do your plan.

Kopikatsu said:
I genuinely cannot understand the outrage about this. Frequently DLC has to be 'built into the game' in that, without framework already being present in the game, stuff can't be added at all. That doesn't mean the DLC has (or could be) finished before the game was finished and is intentionally being held back to be sold later. I hear this a lot from developers of fighting games, who have to set up dummy 'slots' with some data attached in order to add DLC characters later.
a bunch of people doing something bad does not make it a good thing, it only makes a bunch of people doing bad thing.

CpT_x_Killsteal said:
Get mad at 2K, not at Turtle Rock people.
Plenty of reasons to be mad at those Turtles beside this anyway.
 

ArCaDe4tw

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Mar 12, 2009
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I played both the Alpha and the Beta and had a blast. Especially playing in a group of 5 all on one voice comm.
But it became obvious very quickly, that although this game is beautiful, has its own ideas and plays surprisingly well, that the content delivered will, unless the evacuation mode adds a lot of additional content, not be that much.

As far as I know you'll have 3 playable/unlockable characters per class with new classes and monster being introduced as DLC.
If you preorder, you get the 4th monster for free. Otherwise it costs 15$. Reading that made me gulp. 15$ for a playable character? Unless they add new maps and other things to it, this would definitely be a no go for me.

Buying the game on steam with all announced dlcs will now cost me 79,99?. Again, this is a no go for me.
And just playing the base game? 3 Monsters + 3 characters per class with no further customization options in the terms of long term progression (I'm thinking of gameplay), would make this game pretty short lived. This is not because the game doesn't offer much, but the gameplay variety was even exhausted in the beta:
1. Monster: Run, Eat, Run, Evolbe, Eat, Run, Eat, Run, Evolve, Eat. Smash hunters. (although this can be shortened if the hunters are a random group)
2. Hunter: Follow, Follow, Follow, Follow, Follow. Fight.

That's basically my whole experience over the course of 20 hours in gameplay.
And again, I have to say I enjoyed it a lot and I've been playing games like Counter-Strike for years, I can't see this being as captive on long term as there is by far less skill involved in playing Evolve.
 

JET1971

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Apr 7, 2011
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Steven Bogos said:
I completely agree. I just want to pay for a game ONCE and get all of its content. You know, back in the good old days where you bought a game, and any future content was free, released in patches, or bundled with a major, MAJOR amount of content in an expansion pack.
This right here. New skins for weapons or armor? new maps? came with each patch. Unfinished stuff they finished when working on the patch and delivered with it free of charge. Then expansion packs were a big thing, not just 5 maps and a few new guns for $20 but practically it's own game that adds to the original. Then they started selling the stuff that came with a patch and called it DLC while expansion packs shrunk in size and depth to become an insult. For $20 DLC for a $60 game it should be at the very least 1/3 the size of the original in content. 5 maps, a couple guns, and 2 new vehicles in the FarCry 2 fortunes pack shouldn't cost more than 5 dollars when released but the Dragonborn DLC/expansion pack for Skyrim was well worth $20.

Game studios and publishers mad bank without nickel and dime DLC and customers loved them as well. DLC comes around and all that love from customers is flushed down a shareholders toilet. The publishers deserve the hate and any studio that pushes DLC also deserve it, both ruined a good thing.
 

Jandau

Smug Platypus
Dec 19, 2008
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bdcjacko said:
How dare anyone put a price on luxury goods. They should be given away for free.
How dare people disagree with pricing of luxury goods and voice their disagreement on a public forum intended for voicing opinions regarding said luxury goods. They should just shut up and pay, season pass and preorder both...
 

FirstNameLastName

Premium Fraud
Nov 6, 2014
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Oh good, a company is pulling all sorts of bullshit that people disagree with. This thread will most definitely not be full of people who kick down the door and start screaming "companies exist to make money and have the right to charge what they want, so stop using your right to free speech to disagree with them on a forum specifically designed to discuss video games."

Smug sarcasm aside, why is this such a prevailing trend? Whenever a company does anything people disagree with there are always those arseholes who come in and tell everyone else to stop discussing the issue or voicing their complaints.

Jadak said:
Honestly, people are too whiny.
"Honestly, people are too whiny," Jadak whined.

It doesn't even matter if the DLC was done before or after a game is finished. All that matters is clarity, make sure people know what they're buying and what isn't included. That's it. Don't like the value for the price? Don't fucking buy it.

Game companies are a business, and games are just a product. They can choose whatever development and marketing process they damn well feel like. The only objectionable factor in this type of thing is if a company should be deceptive about what they're selling.

For example, if the marketing implies that you get x amount of monsters when you buy the game, when in fact you only get some and the rest are dlc, that's a problem, they sold a product through false advertisements. If that is not happening, then shut the fuck up, voice your opinion on the value of their offerings with your wallet.
You're right, game companies exist to make money. And this is the video games section of a forum, it exists to discuss video games.

If people who disagree should just shut up and vote with their wallet, does that also apply to people who agree? If so, you should probably follow your own advice.

Game companies exist to make money and have the right to charge what they want and make as much DLC as they like. People on these forums have the right to voice their complaints. You have the right to tell them to "shut the fuck up." And I have the right to tell you to do that same. And you have the right to make whatever reply you want defending your outburst ...
 

bdcjacko

Gone Fonzy
Jun 9, 2010
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Jandau said:
bdcjacko said:
How dare anyone put a price on luxury goods. They should be given away for free.
How dare people disagree with pricing of luxury goods and voice their disagreement on a public forum intended for voicing opinions regarding said luxury goods. They should just shut up and pay, season pass and preorder both...
I never said you should just buy it. I am saying don't yell at the sun for rising.