Ex-Tory Leader Attacks Games

[SomeBritishDude]

[quote/]"They are meant to be 18 but nobody cares what it says on the label."[/quote]

This I can agree with.

 

[littlerob]

Oh, for god's sake people, stop acting like such reactionary juveniles. Given who he is, and his poisition, his comments are actually pretty reasonable. Not entirely accurate by any means, but reasonable.

The concern that children are spending the majority of their time interacting virtually rather than physically is an issue that is still up in the air, so to speak. Yes, this being a forum for gamers, the majority of Escapists will have had such experiences ealier on in life, but not to the current extent. Videogames are more accepted now than ever, and parents are more willing than ever to let their children spend hours in front of them, rather than getting the kids out to do things. Hell, I'm only 19 and I would never have dreamed of spending as much time on games as my 11-year old brother does when I was his age. Even when we got a nice bit of MGS done, it always ended with hours in the garden playing at being Solid Snake.

Games may not be becoming more violent on the whole, but the type of violence is changing to one that is much more accessible to children. Older games didn;t have the power to do over the top gore and visceral mutilation the likes of which we can see today. The violence tended to be more psychological and implied rather than spelled out. Just like we teach our kids not to hit each other with sticks, the reaction is to stop them hitting each other with virtual sticks as well. No, there has been no concrete links either way between videogames and violence, but the suspicion is always there in the minds of the concerned parents. It's the old in-the-fields game of 'playing guns', but this time the kids are treated to stylised depictions of what really happens when people get shot.

Grand Theft Auto is the most popular controversial game of late, after Modern Warfare 2. I seriously doubt that Iain Duncan Smith is a gamer, so of course he would pick a game that contains themes along the lines he wants, and that many people are familiar with. Nowhere near as many people know what goes on in Madworld as in GTA.

His last point (that was quoted in the article, at any rate) is accurate. I see no reason to take issue with this, it's exactly what half of these forums have been saying for years.

 

[Vivaldi]

Oh good, another misinformed twat telling us what we can and can't do, with no real proof and guided by ignorance.

Fun!

This, I feel sorry for our friends across the pond who have to deal with this guy. Also, out mates down under of Mr.Atkinson. Yay for misinformed twats...

 

[axelspitfire]

Oh dear! He does have a point about the age ratings but it always seems to be GTA that gets all the bad rep, i'm sure theres worse games out there. As for me if i'm not working, i'm gaming (or on here =) ) and i think of myself as a kind, selfless person so i'm sure there are other people who game for fun (that's why we all play right?) they should stop looking at all the fan-boys who devote there lives to games and see they're the idiots, not the entire Gaming comunity.

 

[UnravThreads]

There goes the possibility of the Tories getting my vote.

I'm sorry, but as soon as GTA is mentioned, I stop caring. It's not the greatest evil in the world, and it's not right that it should take most of the blame. Yes, in the wrong hands (note, a VERY small minority) it can be a dangerous thing, but for the vast majority of people it's a form of entertainment that doesn't leave the gamepad/keyboard+mouse. I know many people who've played GTA, and they're all perfectly respectable members of society, and I'm sure everyone here can attest that this is true for the most part.

They're taking the easy route and blaming the games. What they should be doing is heading to the source of the problem - The parents/guardians. Maybe we need a campaign on TV on behalf of PEGI that explains the ratings are (as of Sept. 2009 I think) legally valid and therefore it's a criminal offense to purchase/supply them for minors. It should also be done in conjunction with the BBFC and remind people that the ratings exist for a reason.

The parents/guardians are warned before purchasing the game. It's clearly written on the case what the rating is and (usually) what the reasoning is, and I think it's high time that we made ignorance the crime, not the material.

 

[Worgen]

shove it up your ass you old fart

you know what? i'm just wanna say that there is SOME truth in what anti-video game activists are saying. While yes, video games are just harmless fun, they are time consuming, using up time that kids should be using to study or go outside. and while they are not corrupting our children in to murdering machines, they are desensitizing them to violence. Obviously, we shouldn't place blame on video games, the blame should be re-directed towards the parents, for not "looking at the label" and for not placing strict rules for how long there child should play games. While you all have every right to be angry at video games constantly being a scapegoat, I don't find it right that see these people as total fools.

its conservatives, they are horribe ppl who dream of going back to the fantasy 50s of leave it to beaver

wow man, you sure do hate the right dontcha O.O

Im not saying I want them all to die but Im not saying I dont either

 

[Treblaine]

"They are meant to be 18 but nobody cares what it says on the label."

No Mr Smith, it seems it is only YOU who is ignoring it. There are laws with harsh punishments to whoever sells 18 rated games to anyone who is even one day younger than 18 years.

Unless things are radically different in the UK, no there isn't.

Fuck him, nothing wrong with single parents.

Umm, single parents are terrible, it may not be their fault, and they themselves may be fine people and parents, but it's still a terrible thing for the kid.


Everything he said was reasonable, but that won't stop people from acting like jackasses anyway.

Make assumptions about the law in your own country but not of mine.

The laws against sale of 18 rated games (and movies) to minors are clear and explicit.

And I'm sorry but being raised by Single parent is FAR FAR better than living with a pair of parents where one is abusive.

 

[qbanknight]

shove it up your ass you old fart

you know what? i'm just wanna say that there is SOME truth in what anti-video game activists are saying. While yes, video games are just harmless fun, they are time consuming, using up time that kids should be using to study or go outside. and while they are not corrupting our children in to murdering machines, they are desensitizing them to violence. Obviously, we shouldn't place blame on video games, the blame should be re-directed towards the parents, for not "looking at the label" and for not placing strict rules for how long there child should play games. While you all have every right to be angry at video games constantly being a scapegoat, I don't find it right that see these people as total fools.

its conservatives, they are horribe ppl who dream of going back to the fantasy 50s of leave it to beaver

wow man, you sure do hate the right dontcha O.O

You just said it yourself what is the problem with kids and violent video games: its the parents own damn fault. A government has no place to censor these materials be it a game, book, or film. Games keep getting scapegoated because all these old farts think that video games are children's toys. As we all know this is no longer the case as it was 20 years ago when most games were kid-related or friendly. We need to keep ignoring assholes like this conservative dipshit (nothing against the right, there are plenty of tree-hugging hippies on the left who wish to censor games as well).

Games are an artistic medium, regardless of what Roger Ebert claims (though I respect his opinion on other matters). And as a medium it must be defended to preserve the freedom of speech, a basic human right be you in the US, UK, Australia, Iraq, Russia, China, Japan, etc. Those who censor art are evil, worse they claim they do it for a common good. But what good has ever come of telling people what they can or cannot create?

the thing about art and censorship regarding video games, is that whether or not you consider video games art, sometimes they not be using violence in not a tasteful but gratuitous way, it would be hard to define what would tasteful or gratuitous however, if one where to look at a game say, MadWorld, violence was necessary for the picture they wanted to paint, but say you see a game like ManHunt, they were being violent for the sake of being violent. I don't know about games being an art form and entitling themselves above censorship, but instead of censoring they make strict laws against selling mature games to minors

And how is this any different from a movie theater that refuses to sell R-rated film tickets to those under the age of 17? I agree wholeheartedly that children should not play violent games, but most people in the US, UK, and Australia believe that the answer to the problem is by censoring the material completely. Which, even if you disagree with a game being "artistic", it still has a right to exist whether it glorifies violence or not.

Games are just now going through the unfortunate burden that films had to undergo to become more violent and blunt. In the 80s and early 90s, these same old farts (yes I like that word ) were protesting their existence and called for them to banned from theaters. Films like Pulp Fiction, Natural Born Killers, Taxi Driver, and Fight Club (in no chronological order obviously). Same went for music that was having vulgar language, particularly in hip-hop. Violence in films and profanity in music has been completely accepted nowadays, it's only a matter of time before games achieve this level of recognition, and the old farts can start complaining about the next thing that kids love.

 

[Treblaine]

This is spreading, first Australia and now England will have a potentially anti-videogame politician, hopefully England has something simmilar to the good ol' first amendmant, which basically says its illegal to ban anything.

Thank God (of War) we have that safety net here in the States, no matter what Jack Thompson says.

You mean the 1st Amendment?

Can that really be used to protect against video games censorship?

 

[qbanknight]

This is spreading, first Australia and now England will have a potentially anti-videogame politician, hopefully England has something simmilar to the good ol' first amendmant, which basically says its illegal to ban anything.

Thank God (of War) we have that safety net here in the States, no matter what Jack Thompson says.

You mean the 1st Amendment?

Can that really be used to protect against video games censorship?

It's been working for over a decade so yeah, why not?

 

[Angus565]

I'm going to go on and assume that he,like every one who is against video games has never played/seen the game in question they are assuming is turning people into murderers.

 

[dragonnewby]

He is right, no one cares what is on the label. If parents were educated better on the ESRB, then the ones who don't mind their child playing those games would let them, and the ones who don't want their child playing M 17+ would not let them.

Geez, seems to be that the US (for now) is going to be the last bastion of freedom of expression in the western world

Canada?

We are pretty awesome. I honestly think we are the best off aside from maybe Sweden and a few others.

Oh, snap, we are 4th on the U.N.'s best places to live, but really we are 2nd, since in Norway you have to deal with a mostly alcoholic and jobless population, and Australia has no freedom(along with Ireland, but they were below us(seriously? An anti-blasphemy law? What is this, the 7th century? Stop electing children into government everyone)).

1. Iceland
2. Norway
3. Australia
4. Canada
5. Ireland

Technically, first because nobody lives in Iceland XD

Back on topic... I don't think many people actually read what he said. He said that it's "parents who give GTA to their children" fault...

 

[Brad Shepard]

no, lets forget the fact that you are IDed whenever you want to buy a M, or sometimes a T game, because you know, the parents are never the problem. I saw a 8 year old at the GTA4 midnight launch in my town 8 people, and his mom was right there buying it FOR him!

 

[MinishArcticFox]

God damnit everything young people have ever enjoyed is always the source of evil. First it was comics then it was rock and roll now it's games. Also why is GTA always the game to go after I personally think that GoW is much worse.

 

[FinalGamer]

Is it Iain or Duncan Smith? I don't want to hate both because of one of them being pricks.

 

[Ancientgamer]

"They are meant to be 18 but nobody cares what it says on the label."

No Mr Smith, it seems it is only YOU who is ignoring it. There are laws with harsh punishments to whoever sells 18 rated games to anyone who is even one day younger than 18 years.

Unless things are radically different in the UK, no there isn't.

Fuck him, nothing wrong with single parents.

Umm, single parents are terrible, it may not be their fault, and they themselves may be fine people and parents, but it's still a terrible thing for the kid.


Everything he said was reasonable, but that won't stop people from acting like jackasses anyway.

Make assumptions about the law in your own country but not of mine.

Unless things are radically different in the UK, no there isn't

You may wish to notice that's exactly what I did. Also, it's not an assumption [in america], it's a fact. I was obviously asking you a question regarding British law, you, in turn, spun around and slung shit in my face.

And I'm sorry but being raised by Single parent is FAR FAR better than living with a pair of parents where one is abusive.

It's not an either\or statement, I'm sure burning your legs off in molten iron hurts more than driving a stake through your foot, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't still rather relax in a nice spa.

 

[Treblaine]

"They are meant to be 18 but nobody cares what it says on the label."

No Mr Smith, it seems it is only YOU who is ignoring it. There are laws with harsh punishments to whoever sells 18 rated games to anyone who is even one day younger than 18 years.

Unless things are radically different in the UK, no there isn't.

Fuck him, nothing wrong with single parents.

Umm, single parents are terrible, it may not be their fault, and they themselves may be fine people and parents, but it's still a terrible thing for the kid.


Everything he said was reasonable, but that won't stop people from acting like jackasses anyway.

Make assumptions about the law in your own country but not of mine.

You may wish to notice that's exactly what I did. Also, it's not an assumption [in america], it's a fact. I was obviously asking you a question regarding British law, you, in turn, spun around and slung shit in my face.



It's not an either\or statement, I'm sure burning your legs off in molten iron hurts more than driving a stake through your foot, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't still rather relax in a nice spa.

The bottom line, in the UK we ALREADY have laws against sale of 18 rated games to minors.

So if Ian Duncan Smith says the Tory party is going to clamp down on violent video games with the tired old excuse of "protect the kids", that can only mean a step closer to Australian style outright bans of certain games.

I don't want to debate about the single parent issue other than to say the Tories seem to have no clue and have all too selfish motives.

 

[PhunkyPhazon]

Well, at least he acknowledges that GTA is meant for older crowds. Maybe instead of outright banning them he will just concentrate on making sure minors can't get them and everyone else can.

[small]I hope...*ulp*[/small]

EDIT: *Reads above post* POOP!!!

This does it, we need to start becoming more active in politics and prove to people that parenting is the problem, not the games themselves. It's the only way to end this.

 

[Kollega]

...he said: "some video games are incredibly violent, like Grand Theft Auto. They are meant to be 18 but nobody cares what it says on the label."

Hellz yeah! Finally someone understands the REAL problem!