Excellent Game + Low Scores = WHY?

[him over there]

Don't even bother with the reviews on internet games sites, have you seen newgrounds? I can't believe armor games is much better.

If you need an example look no further than this:

 

[Darkmantle]

after playing level 20 (the one where you play as goony) I give it a - 83, incidently the number of attempts that level took. Bad collision box, a cm too large on the top and sides, EXTREMELY poor control as goony, almost unplayable. Awful level design, lack of a check point after an extremely tedious section, death by invisible enemies. Want more? the game was hovering around a 7 or 8, but this level ruined the game with sloppy design

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

Don't even bother with the reviews on internet games sites, have you seen newgrounds? I can't believe armor games is much better.

If you need an example look no further than this:

I love Slowbeef and Diabeetus. Their Retsufrash playlist is great. First thing that popped in my head when my friend showed me this game was, "wow, someone must REALLY be crushing on a girl he can't talk to."

OT: I guess some people just don't like the same dumb flash games you do.

 

[scorptatious]

Shouldn't the trash can be the girl? I mean trash bags do "go into" the trash can.

Awful jokes aside, I personally don't find this game all that fun. I can appreciate the concept, but I feel it doesn't do well in terms of execution.

That's just me though, if you like the game that's fine. It's your opinion.

 

[Smeggs]

Gameplay-wise, I thought it sucked.

So there's your answer. People have differing opinions on what constitutes a good game.

 

[default]

You know Armor Games is like, all dumbass 8 year old little shits with absolutely no taste right?

 

[LiquidSolstice]

It could possibly have something to do with the fact that just as you are not a fan of ""super-serious-arty-groundbreaking-erection-provoking excellence", there are many people who are not a fan of the "stick-up-their-ass-irritatingly-pretentious-indie-nonconformist-for-the-sake-of-it-games" (such as myself).

 

[ajemas]

If you ask me, one of the core aspects of any game are the mechanics. I have seen many games with absolutely wonderful ideas that simply were not able to pull it off successfully in terms of the controls and gameplay. Many Wii and Kinect games, for example, are ultimately hindered by their presence of motion controls in games that could really shine if they were used properly.
For this game in particular, the usage of looking left and right repeatedly simply isn't a good mechanic for ascending. It makes moving for long stretches in one direction a very difficult prospect, as well as making descending and moving upwards while staying to one side extremely difficult.
In order for a difficult game to be fun, the controls cannot be what causes most of the difficulty. The difficult games that you mentioned, Super Meat Boy and Dark Souls, had very tight and well put together control schemes. This meant that the player was being punished for their lack of skill, not for their inability to work with a broken system. Because of this, I have to say that this game fails right out of the gate.

 

[malestrithe]

Just like Soylent Cola, tastes vary from person to person.

 

[Eddie the head]

Just like Soylent Cola, tastes vary from person to person.

That that was a good response. Give credit where credit is due.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well the game doesn't even load for me so I'm guessing that isn't going to get them a 10/10, in fact I bet people would rate it down for that.

 

[Drizzitdude]

Because the publisher is too poor to pay for good reviews.

something like this. You should have seen the lost planet 2 reviews, a fantastic game that many people didn't even give a chance because of the reviews.

 

[Evil Cabbage]

In response to the OP's question, I'll say a couple of things:

1.) I believe it's fairly safe to gurantee that no two people will ever approach something with the same mindset/expectations. While you're obviously quite passionate about the game, many people will approach the game from a different perspective, hence the negative scores.

2.) You said yourself that you think the game is great, so, by all means just play it and enjoy, regardless of what others say.

I've just started playing it, and I can understand where you're likely coming from with your love for the game, however I could also understand why there is such as strong dislike for the game.

 

[OddGoo]

Hello fellas, Im oddgoo, the creator of this game. I stumbled upon this thread while looking for websites that have been uploading it =P.

First of all, I would like to ask you a favour. The controls are definitely what's ruining the game for a large percentage of players so I've implemented what was going to be the original approach:

http://www.villavanilla.com/temp/tl/Beta/

Just hold the arrows to gain vertical speed, no need for that much mashing anymore.
What do you think? (NOTE: This control breaks some levels, I'm just doing it to see what plays better)

Now, I'll talk a bit about the game itself.

The game's development/design started as a small gift for my girlfriend. "A little mobile app to show her some love and get to know the flash mobile API" I thought.
At the time we had a running joke of me being a garbage can and her being a trash bag, hence the names of heeny and goony (oddgoo) and the game title itself.

Not fond of virtual joysticks on touch devices, I thought that the best, simplest idea for the game concept I had in mind was to map some vertical speed as you move left and right, also symbolising the plastic bag being carried by the wind. This control scheme is the one I linked above.

Why did I change it to the tiring button mashing? To put some struggle on the player, to make him/her feel fragile and vulnerable. And to add a feeling of more control. This was during some very early game-play feedback.

The game of course grew and didn't even end up on mobile (for now), so the controls are not the ideal, but I still want to make it better. So before I publish the game on other sites I want to know if the original method was easier or not, as well as some more fixes (Level 20 is definitely a deal-breaker, sorry Darkmantle).

So thank you Ronmartin for your extensive support! And thanks everyone else for voicing your concerns!

 

[BENZOOKA]

Opinions. Hmm.

Why actually give a shit if someone, especially a reviewer, doesn't like something you like?

Makes no sense.

 

[OddGoo]

After having played it for a bit, I'd say it's because it's like Super Meat Boy with terrible controls. It's a good idea, but the way you have to alternate left and right to ascend makes for quick hand cramps; it should probably use the up button instead, because right now it's got a terrible case of fake difficulty. Also, and this is a minor nitpick, but the music that plays on the title screen for each new level is from Katawa Shoujo.

Edit: Or better yet, use the space button. Have it still be alternating left and right under the hood, and have manually alternating left and right still work the same way, but also put it on a button you can mash quickly without causing carpal tunnel. Instant improvement in the game's score.

Ahhh that little piano progression, I got it as a free sample from www.freesound.org , You can listen to it here: http://www.freesound.org/people/HerbertBoland/sounds/29697/

I've credited the original artist in the game's official website.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

After having played it for a bit, I'd say it's because it's like Super Meat Boy with terrible controls. It's a good idea, but the way you have to alternate left and right to ascend makes for quick hand cramps; it should probably use the up button instead, because right now it's got a terrible case of fake difficulty. Also, and this is a minor nitpick, but the music that plays on the title screen for each new level is from Katawa Shoujo.

Edit: Or better yet, use the space button. Have it still be alternating left and right under the hood, and have manually alternating left and right still work the same way, but also put it on a button you can mash quickly without causing carpal tunnel. Instant improvement in the game's score.

Ahhh that little piano progression, I got it as a free sample from www.freesound.org , You can listen to it here: http://www.freesound.org/people/HerbertBoland/sounds/29697/

I've credited the original artist in the game's official website.

That makes sense; considering Katawa Shoujo's origins, I figured you'd just coincidentally wound up with the same free clip. That kind of thing happens all the time with sound effects -- the door opening sound from Daggerfall comes to mind -- but it's less common with music like that. As for the controls, I haven't had a chance to try the new version yet, but I do have a suggestion based on the time I spent with the old one: keep the mashing, but map it to the space bar, and just have the space bar alternate between moving your character left and right. I'd imagine that would fix the hand cramping without breaking anything the way your current fix apparently does.

Regardless, this game shows promise; it's rough around the edges right now, but the problem is with the controls, not with the concept of what amounts to Super Meat Boy with flying and hovering (which really makes it into something different and interesting.)

 

[OddGoo]

After having played it for a bit, I'd say it's because it's like Super Meat Boy with terrible controls. It's a good idea, but the way you have to alternate left and right to ascend makes for quick hand cramps; it should probably use the up button instead, because right now it's got a terrible case of fake difficulty. Also, and this is a minor nitpick, but the music that plays on the title screen for each new level is from Katawa Shoujo.

Edit: Or better yet, use the space button. Have it still be alternating left and right under the hood, and have manually alternating left and right still work the same way, but also put it on a button you can mash quickly without causing carpal tunnel. Instant improvement in the game's score.

Ahhh that little piano progression, I got it as a free sample from www.freesound.org , You can listen to it here: http://www.freesound.org/people/HerbertBoland/sounds/29697/

I've credited the original artist in the game's official website.

That makes sense; considering Katawa Shoujo's origins, I figured you'd just coincidentally wound up with the same free clip. That kind of thing happens all the time with sound effects -- the door opening sound from Daggerfall comes to mind -- but it's less common with music like that. As for the controls, I haven't had a chance to try the new version yet, but I do have a suggestion based on the time I spent with the old one: keep the mashing, but map it to the space bar, and just have the space bar alternate between moving your character left and right. I'd imagine that would fix the hand cramping without breaking anything the way your current fix apparently does.

Regardless, this game shows promise; it's rough around the edges right now, but the problem is with the controls, not with the concept of what amounts to Super Meat Boy with flying and hovering (which really makes it into something different and interesting.)

Thank you very much! I think the new control scheme actually does not break any levels badly, might just mean a fix or two, and besides, I had to improve some of them anyway =).

Again thanks!

Edit: And yes, I shall never use free music in a paid game, its just that these flash efforts amount to less time investment.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

After having played it for a bit, I'd say it's because it's like Super Meat Boy with terrible controls. It's a good idea, but the way you have to alternate left and right to ascend makes for quick hand cramps; it should probably use the up button instead, because right now it's got a terrible case of fake difficulty. Also, and this is a minor nitpick, but the music that plays on the title screen for each new level is from Katawa Shoujo.

Edit: Or better yet, use the space button. Have it still be alternating left and right under the hood, and have manually alternating left and right still work the same way, but also put it on a button you can mash quickly without causing carpal tunnel. Instant improvement in the game's score.

Ahhh that little piano progression, I got it as a free sample from www.freesound.org , You can listen to it here: http://www.freesound.org/people/HerbertBoland/sounds/29697/

I've credited the original artist in the game's official website.

That makes sense; considering Katawa Shoujo's origins, I figured you'd just coincidentally wound up with the same free clip. That kind of thing happens all the time with sound effects -- the door opening sound from Daggerfall comes to mind -- but it's less common with music like that. As for the controls, I haven't had a chance to try the new version yet, but I do have a suggestion based on the time I spent with the old one: keep the mashing, but map it to the space bar, and just have the space bar alternate between moving your character left and right. I'd imagine that would fix the hand cramping without breaking anything the way your current fix apparently does.

Regardless, this game shows promise; it's rough around the edges right now, but the problem is with the controls, not with the concept of what amounts to Super Meat Boy with flying and hovering (which really makes it into something different and interesting.)

Thank you very much! I think the new control scheme actually does not break any levels badly, might just mean a fix or two, and besides, I had to improve some of them anyway =).

Again thanks!

Welcome. And actually, I'm playing it with the new control scheme, and it's an enormous improvement, and I have a feeling it's a lot more elegant than my suggestion will be in practice. The current build has kind of a Krusty's Super Funhouse vibe to it, if that makes any sense; it's slow, and the difficulty is more from figuring out what you're supposed to do than from trying to execute the plan, but it's slow in a way that's relaxing, not in a way that's plodding or anything like that. The old build was just pure frustration.

Edit: And with a bit more playtime, it becomes apparent that the difficulty does start to come from execution. But it's the difficulty of a game with tight controls; it really is amazing how bug a difference that small change is.

 

[OddGoo]

After having played it for a bit, I'd say it's because it's like Super Meat Boy with terrible controls. It's a good idea, but the way you have to alternate left and right to ascend makes for quick hand cramps; it should probably use the up button instead, because right now it's got a terrible case of fake difficulty. Also, and this is a minor nitpick, but the music that plays on the title screen for each new level is from Katawa Shoujo.

Edit: Or better yet, use the space button. Have it still be alternating left and right under the hood, and have manually alternating left and right still work the same way, but also put it on a button you can mash quickly without causing carpal tunnel. Instant improvement in the game's score.

Ahhh that little piano progression, I got it as a free sample from www.freesound.org , You can listen to it here: http://www.freesound.org/people/HerbertBoland/sounds/29697/

I've credited the original artist in the game's official website.

That makes sense; considering Katawa Shoujo's origins, I figured you'd just coincidentally wound up with the same free clip. That kind of thing happens all the time with sound effects -- the door opening sound from Daggerfall comes to mind -- but it's less common with music like that. As for the controls, I haven't had a chance to try the new version yet, but I do have a suggestion based on the time I spent with the old one: keep the mashing, but map it to the space bar, and just have the space bar alternate between moving your character left and right. I'd imagine that would fix the hand cramping without breaking anything the way your current fix apparently does.

Regardless, this game shows promise; it's rough around the edges right now, but the problem is with the controls, not with the concept of what amounts to Super Meat Boy with flying and hovering (which really makes it into something different and interesting.)

Thank you very much! I think the new control scheme actually does not break any levels badly, might just mean a fix or two, and besides, I had to improve some of them anyway =).

Again thanks!

Welcome. And actually, I'm playing it with the new control scheme, and it's an enormous improvement, and I have a feeling it's a lot more elegant than my suggestion will be in practice. The current build has kind of a Krusty's Super Funhouse vibe to it, if that makes any sense; it's slow, and the difficulty is more from figuring out what you're supposed to do than from trying to execute the plan, but it's slow in a way that's relaxing, not in a way that's plodding or anything like that. The old build was just pure frustration.

Edit: And with a bit more playtime, it becomes apparent that the difficulty does start to come from execution. But it's the difficulty of a game with tight controls; it really is amazing how bug a difference that small change is.

Fantastic stuff! What a great thing to hear =D, I'm glad that I didn't give up on the game, even tho of course a lot of people will still hate it, there is always so much to learn from feedback from attentive people like you, and it is now much more playable at least. Thank you! and thank you OP again for bringing the game up.