Excluding Women From E-Sports Does Not Legitimize It
- Thread starter roseofbattle
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I don't think it is a thing in eSports. In Dota 2 you very well could become part of a pro team as woman. It just doesn't happen because the numbers of very good female players are comparatively small and they probably have a harder time finding and fitting into a competitive team.
That was quick. Now I don't have to write a lengthy post about the futility of gender segregation in non-physical sports because IeSF already seems to understand the idiocy of their previous stance. Marvelous.melkior said:
However, they seem to still want go ahead with the female only tournaments. Seems a bit redundant after this change. It could, however, serve as a more friendly way of introducing female gamers onto the professional stage.
They don't want a ban on tournaments that segregate by gender. They want a ban on tournaments that don't permit women. They want a setup like chess where there are tournaments in which anyone can compete, and tournaments in which only women can compete. You'd be surprised in how many forms of competition that is actually the norm. It's not just chess, but did you know that the NBA and NFL both technically admit women players if one can keep up with the men? Neither league has had a rule requiring players to be men for a long time (because that would be horrible and sexist for exactly the reasons that the WNBA [which does not admit men] isn't). There just aren't enough women who can compete in those sports at the same level as the men (a lot of people thought Brittany Griner would be the first woman to play in the NBA, but she went with WNBA and set a single game record and tied a career record in her first game).SurfKansas said:
Actually, the NFL technically admits female players, but none have come through who can compete well enough against the men to actually get a spot on a team. The number who have ever tried out can be counted on your fingers. The most recent one was injured during tryouts.RatRace123 said:
Remember, if someone says mean words to a woman, she wilts like a flower and is incapable of competing against the mean man who said the mean words and potentially proving him wrong.Hiramas said:
Or it could be like chess, where despite no relative biological advantage the best female players don't do that well against the best male players, which is then used as an excuse why female players shouldn't have to play against male players, and should accordingly have their own special women-only tournaments.
Again I bring up chess. There are leagues open to anyone, and leagues only open to women. Women-only leagues aren't a response to men-only leagues in some kind of general case -- they're a response to women wanting to not have to compete against men, while not giving men the option not to compete against women (because keeping women out of a group is misogyny, but keeping men out of a group is empowerment).Mcoffey said:
...or chess? Such a great example for this stuff.Stu35 said:
What is such bullshit is the whole "If women can't or don't want to compete with men, then they shouldn't have to and that's OK. If men can't or don't want to compete with women, then they are sexist assholes who need to be punished" thing.
I see what they're trying to do. Honestly. I really do.
But what they don't understand is why men and women don't compete in these sports together. The male body is significantly different then the female's body. Kinda goes without saying, so one party can unknowingly hurt the other party pretty easy by not factoring in these differences.
Basically, we want a team to be the exact same as the other team in terms of body type, to prevent injuries, and to keep things fair.
This... Change. This body type. It doesn't exist in videogaming. Everyone is the same no matter what. Sure, we can go into things like, "The male mind can navigate 3D better than a woman can." But that, in my eyes is such bullshit. Navigation is a skill. And skills can be learned by anyone.
Segregating men and women in the world of videogaming doesn't make sense, as everyone is on an equal footing. Unless, well... You're missing an arm.
Pretty sure women have two arms like men do. Can I get a confirmation on this? You might be surprised, but Tents also have two arms as well. Well, the cool ones anyway.
But what they don't understand is why men and women don't compete in these sports together. The male body is significantly different then the female's body. Kinda goes without saying, so one party can unknowingly hurt the other party pretty easy by not factoring in these differences.
Basically, we want a team to be the exact same as the other team in terms of body type, to prevent injuries, and to keep things fair.
This... Change. This body type. It doesn't exist in videogaming. Everyone is the same no matter what. Sure, we can go into things like, "The male mind can navigate 3D better than a woman can." But that, in my eyes is such bullshit. Navigation is a skill. And skills can be learned by anyone.
Segregating men and women in the world of videogaming doesn't make sense, as everyone is on an equal footing. Unless, well... You're missing an arm.
Pretty sure women have two arms like men do. Can I get a confirmation on this? You might be surprised, but Tents also have two arms as well. Well, the cool ones anyway.
And the, you know, obvious and massive differences in physical capability between the genders.Steve the Pocket said:
OT: I'd probably have read the article a bit more focussedly if I considered e-sports to be sports in the first place. They're not, they're not, they're NOT FUCKING SPORTS! Even less so than motor sports, because at least that gives you a skillset that you can instantaneously benefit from in a variety of professions and situations in the real world. How the fuck does the ability to zerg-rush your opponent in 30 seconds or whatever benefit you in the real world?
Though I'm not saying gender segregation in this matter isn't bullshit of the highest order. There is no reason, absolutely no reason, why both sexes shouldn't be allowed to compete in the same tournament. And I'm utterly ashamed to see my home country, allegedly one of the paragons of gender equality, being the first one to be named in this article.
aside from the extreme hand eye coordination, on the fly problem solving, developing strategies with limited recourses and general multitasking. No way that could ever be practical abilities in the real world........bartholen said:
because see, it doesn't help you with either moving or stacking bricks so it must be pointless, we have dem computers to do the brainy stuff hur dur
Because the only people that participate in this crap are neckbeards who think only men who started playing fighters, LoL or whatever the second they got cut from the umbilical cord should play.Majinash said:
Imagine if Michael Jordan held a press conference. And he says in said conference "Anyone who started playing basketball for the first time after the year 2005 is not allowed to play basketball. If you find anyone playing basketball and they look too young to play it before 2005, you harass them, threaten to rape and kill their mothers, any means nessesary to make sure they never play basketball again. Also, no more WNBA and women aren't allowed to play ever again." He would becomes the biggest pariah in history. He wouldn't be able to walk down the street without someone laughing at him. But people who play e-sports, they encourage that line of thinking.
If you ask me, the real problem here is the industry's fixation on trying to turn video games into something that they're not. They're not sports. They're not movies. They're not social media. They're not fucking Skymall. They're goddamned video games. Cut out all that superfluous bullshit and just start making video games that are actually good again.
Remember that? Remember when new video games were actually good? I miss those days!
But yeah. Last I checked, having ovaries didn't make it harder for your brain to send signals to your fingers, which is literally the only physical skill required to play video games. Girls should be fucking allowed to play. Period.
Remember that? Remember when new video games were actually good? I miss those days!
But yeah. Last I checked, having ovaries didn't make it harder for your brain to send signals to your fingers, which is literally the only physical skill required to play video games. Girls should be fucking allowed to play. Period.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with making girl or boy specific competitions. The only problem comes if you give one gender more opportunities than the other. But just because someone "wants" to is enough justification for someone to create such competitions.beef_razor said:
The toxic nature of the community towards women alone should allow for the existence of at least some gender distinct competitions. But the "big ones" absolutely shouldn't segregate on gender.
Either way, I think this group had mostly male-only events with just a few female-only. If that was the case then it crosses the line with unfair representation.
Damn. I got the sexual equality state of mind at at-least 10 years old. This is just depressing...plain and simple. We should be way past this by now, but no. Makes me quite ashamed to be male honestly. But all around me i see sexist behaviour. Seedy guys saying and doing allsorts, claiming to be "cheeky", "joking" or my personal fave "too honest"...just to excuse their sleazy behaviour. I wish i could just go around and hit every single one of those greasy faces!
Anger. Maintained. Err went a little off-topic there. Sorry.
But yes, this e-sports thing is a joke. How far can they push this sexism??
Anger. Maintained. Err went a little off-topic there. Sorry.
But yes, this e-sports thing is a joke. How far can they push this sexism??
As questioned many times already in this thread, what's the purpose of segregation in a so-called "sport" that requires no full-body physicality in order to compete? Makes no damn sense.
If they were really concerned about a group of people having an innate advantage or disadvantage in the primary skills required for peak performance, then they should ban/segregate lefties. There's plenty of hard, scientific evidence to support the theory that many lefties enjoy decreased centralization of brain activity across the left and right hemispheres, implying an enhanced ability to take in more (and more varied) information simultaneously, accompanied by increased reaction speeds. Nobody in their right mind could argue that those are less-important in video gaming performance than muscle mass and brute force.
Of course, as a lefty myself, I just love thinking I have /some/ form of advantage. lol
Best not tell the governing bodies about the increased size of the female corpus callosum, though, lest they decide to reinstate their idiotic schemes.
If they were really concerned about a group of people having an innate advantage or disadvantage in the primary skills required for peak performance, then they should ban/segregate lefties. There's plenty of hard, scientific evidence to support the theory that many lefties enjoy decreased centralization of brain activity across the left and right hemispheres, implying an enhanced ability to take in more (and more varied) information simultaneously, accompanied by increased reaction speeds. Nobody in their right mind could argue that those are less-important in video gaming performance than muscle mass and brute force.
Of course, as a lefty myself, I just love thinking I have /some/ form of advantage. lol
Best not tell the governing bodies about the increased size of the female corpus callosum, though, lest they decide to reinstate their idiotic schemes.
I can see the dillema in here. If you separate men and women you are kinda enforcing segregation because women will take the "safe space" thing condescending. If you put them together assholes gonna be assholes and shit will get worse before getting better.
We're fucked either way.
We're fucked either way.