Expert Warns of Possible Catastrophic Effects of California Videogame Law

[Buchichu]

oh America, making it a point to ruin everything for everyone all. the. time.

 

[DazBurger]

I still don't understand what all the fuss is about. The rest of the worlds games industrys still appear to be going strong despite the fact that kids can't buy 18 rated games.

Can a kid in the states seriously walk into a shop and buy Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto?

The only place I know of where kids cant do that, is the UK :/

 

[Doug]

Or more likely they will move to other developed economy's and continue to produce video games with M rating for other countries. I am pretty convinced that if the US abandons the lead it has by hobbling the industry the games industry will simply stop selling those games in the US.

And sell them... where? The US is one of the biggest markets out there, and its the retailers who'd be the ones affected by the law directly, not the developers.

 

[Harbinger_]

Or in Canada.

Some people I think on here are ignoring another important part to this issue. If this law ends up getting passed in California it's the just the first ball-gag in a serious of unfortunate uncomfortable bondagesque ways the video game industry will be the sub for the dominatrix known as voter-grabbing based law passing.

First it's something as innocuous-seeming as minors can't be sold M+ rated games. Later it'll be something slightly more serious like minors cannot play games online and then cascade down from there. Not only that but if the law gets passed in the states then other places will want to do the same to make sure they don't look as if they are behind the times.

I apologize for any spelling mistakes my spell-check seems to be non-functional today.

 

[Doug]

im scepticle that this law will have much affect at all tbh

isnt it already illeagle for under 18s to buy M rated games anyway? and if its not i doubt there are actually that many retailers who are selling them to under 18s, so there wont be a huge drop in sales maybe a minior one but not much at all

and as some people have said, with digital distrobution developers can still sell really well

Apparently, no. Its not illegal. Frowned upon by many, yes, illegal, no. That said, alot of shops do enforce the policy of the ESRB ratings but really, its wholly optional.

 

[Galaxy613]

The problem is, the majority of people in American would be fine with this. Because they DON'T FRIGGIN' UNDERSTAND.

 

[Bretty]

Sounds a little too reactionist too me. Sure there will be a little uncertainty but as the law will only affect adults who buy juniors M games.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

the videogame industry will see big job losses and will make fewer games as retailers stop stocking M rated games for fear of prosecution or litigation.

I got one question for you Sweeney: Say I create a rated M videogame, how the hell can I be held responsible if some dick on the other end of the country sells it to a minor?

Short answer: I CAN'T

The law doens't forbid the sale of Mature games, or the manutacturing of Mature games, it forbids people from selling minors a mature game. THe company who created it can't really be held responsible. Even if some lawyer said "They created an advertisement we think targetted minors!" The only question the judge has to ask is "Okay. WHatever, but even if the minor wanted to buy the game, the store worker should have forbid it.

 

[Shycte]

Well, problem is that it's a bit uinfair against the retailers. But really, a minor should not be able to buy a M rated game.

 

[Verlander]

I live in the Uk, so it being illegal to sell 18 games to under 18s and so on isn't exactly new to me, it all works fine here, and I understand the precedent but, I am in agreement that I can't see all this happening, sure we SHOULD be defending against it, but to be honest all I can see is it ending up like hte UK law, which is perfectly fine, if a movies an 18, you can't buy it, so I'm not quite sure why it should be different, the US have laws on movies and stuff don't they?

Yes, but the UK isn't almost the entire western videogame market, now is it? That's the whole point of the OP -- if the law passes, the retailers will have to adapt. If they adapt by reducing or completely eliminating M-rated game shelves, it will affect everyone in the industry, because USA is where game companies from all over the world look to for their profits.

And then there is, of course, the USA-specific problem of singling out games as illegal to sell to minors, while movies, music and books are still a legal "free-for-all", effectively establishing legal censorship based on knee-jerk reaction to animal instincts and ignorance (fear of the unknown).

You missed his (and my) point. Retailers have never had to "adapt" to the law over here. Retailers not stocking M rated games? A load of rubbish. They still make money from it, of course they'll still stock it. I'm pretty ashamed to be a gamer right now, when the gaming "experts" are flinging as much poorly researched and sensationalist bullshit around as the neanderthal super conservative bastards that see games as the root of all evil.

This OTT reaction here is just making people look like fools. And if they start doing the same to movies? So what. An 8 year old can't buy Saw, or the Texas Chainsaw Massacre? Is that not for the best? I saw "R" rated films when I was younger, but at my parents discretion. I couldn't buy one though, and so what? I agree that games shouldn't be subject to special treatment over other media, but I'm thinking it's just the start, opening the floodgates as it were.

This wasn't directed at you as such mate, sorry, I went on a little longer than I intended. People are getting all in a stress over nothing, however.

 

[Verlander]

double post, sorry

 

[Logan Westbrook]

the videogame industry will see big job losses and will make fewer games as retailers stop stocking M rated games for fear of prosecution or litigation.

I got one question for you Sweeney: Say I create a rated M videogame, how the hell can I be held responsible if some dick on the other end of the country sells it to a minor?

Short answer: I CAN'T

The law doens't forbid the sale of Mature games, or the manutacturing of Mature games, it forbids people from selling minors a mature game. THe company who created it can't really be held responsible. Even if some lawyer said "They created an advertisement we think targetted minors!" The only question the judge has to ask is "Okay. WHatever, but even if the minor wanted to buy the game, the store worker should have forbid it.

I think you might have misread that section. It's the retailers who will be sued or prosecuted, not the developers.

 

[Delusibeta]

Basically, this worst case scenario would result in party games replacing FPSes as the "default" genre of consoles games in this generation rather than the next, and a sharp increase in PC gamers as people flock to digital distribution sites to get their FPS fix, which should hopefully result in a renaissance in PC gaming.

 

[Sky Captanio]

So there'll be games with less blood and gore coming from America? Meh. My favorite developers are from other countries anyway. And less gore in games? Sounds good to me.

 

[Senaro]

I don't see why retailers would stop selling M rated games. I can't imagine the local Gamestop or Play n Trade banning selling God of War in there stores for any reason besides it somehow becoming illegal. Stores like Walmart might hold back on a few titles, though I can't see any actual gaming store reducing their stock for a reason like this.

 

[tehroc]

Why would this lead to prosecution/litigation for selling M rated games?

Right, it would be like selling cigarettes to minors. We don't prosecute convenience stores if they are not selling smokes to minors. If the retailers aren't breaking the law then what's the harm?

Article bring up the movie industry? Well guess what cinema's greatest demographic is teenagers (less options for dates then a non minor) who shouldn't be watching R rated movies without parental guidance. No teen really wants to go to the movies with his parents so of course the industry strives for PG-13 movies to hit the lowest common denominator. R rated movies are still produced for a more sophisticated crowd and are generally more mature (well except Tarentino) and I would expect the same thing in the video game market. M rated games will still be released and offer a more satisfying experience for those with more delicate palates.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

the videogame industry will see big job losses and will make fewer games as retailers stop stocking M rated games for fear of prosecution or litigation.

I got one question for you Sweeney: Say I create a rated M videogame, how the hell can I be held responsible if some dick on the other end of the country sells it to a minor?

Short answer: I CAN'T

The law doens't forbid the sale of Mature games, or the manutacturing of Mature games, it forbids people from selling minors a mature game. THe company who created it can't really be held responsible. Even if some lawyer said "They created an advertisement we think targetted minors!" The only question the judge has to ask is "Okay. WHatever, but even if the minor wanted to buy the game, the store worker should have forbid it.

I think you might have misread that section. It's the retailers who will be sued or prosecuted, not the developers.

Ineed you are right Sir! But as long as EBGames/Gamestop is careful, they should still do fine. Gas stations around my house card people who look 30 years old as a precaustion against selling cigarettes and tobacco to minros. Just set a rule in place to card someone who appears of a certain age. If gas stations and corner stores can do it, I'm sure a game store can.

The only issue with this is that, like in "Confessions of a Gamestop Employee", most of the people in gamestops are just coasters from job to job, and they don't care enough to card.

 

[tk1989]

So basically what you and the original person interviewed believe is that the games industry only really thrives off the sale of games to minors? That if minors are unable to buy M-rated games that whole market will simply 'collapse'?

First of all, nobody said anything about a "collapse". But it could definitely change and not in favour of high production value M-titles. I personally don't even really care that much, since the big companies haven't put out a single genuinely scary or interesting mature game since Silent Hill 2, but I also don't think that hampering their sales (see below) is the way to go about fixing that.

Second, it's not about selling to minors. It's about retailers having to ask for IDs and having to train and monitor their employees on one more thing, making them reconsider and re-evaluate whether the income from those games justify the administrative overhead AND the possibility of legal punishment if some illegal sales do happen. And the bigger the retail chain, the bigger the overhead and potential fines, therefore the bigger chance that games like Silent Hill will be pushed to some back corner of the shelf, if not dropped completely.

I didnt write collapse as a quotation, i was just emphasising the word considering what some people have been saying makes it sound like a collapse would be inevitable if this law came into effect. I am just saying that it has been blown out of proportion. Why not have a policy whereby the fine is placed on the individual selling the product rather than the retailer? That means that the retailer has no financial worries and merely has to focus on teaching the employee to not sell games to underage children. It took less than 5 minutes for me to be told the repercussions of selling a minor an 18 rated game, and its not exactly hard to ask someone for ID... Other businesses do it all the time, with alcohol and such, why has such a big deal been made of it with video games.

 

[Verlander]

Why would this lead to prosecution/litigation for selling M rated games?

Right, it would be like selling cigarettes to minors. We don't prosecute convenience stores if they are not selling smokes to minors. If the retailers aren't breaking the law then what's the harm?

Article bring up the movie industry? Well guess what cinema's greatest demographic is teenagers (less options for dates then a non minor) who shouldn't be watching R rated movies without parental guidance. No teen really wants to go to the movies with his parents so of course the industry strives for PG-13 movies to hit the lowest common denominator. R rated movies are still produced for a more sophisticated crowd and are generally more mature (well except Tarentino) and I would expect the same thing in the video game market. M rated games will still be released and offer a more satisfying experience for those with more delicate palates.

But shops DON'T stop selling cigarettes do they? And you can buy them and alcohol in supermarkets, can't you? This whole thing is rubbish, the effects of it, if it passes, will be minimal.

As for the comparison with movies, some of the best selling games and suchlike at the moment are the ridiculous singstar and family games, alongside MMORPG's which aren't "R" rated. In fact, bar some specialist titles (GTA, Manhunt etc) there is no need to be "R" rated. I'm not sure how the ratings system works over there, but video games aren't the domain of just gamers anymore. There is a huge "vanilla" market, which is where the games industry is heading ANYWAY.

The reason I don't agree with this law, is that it is just another way for the US to ignore the real issue in the states, which is weapon ownership. IMO