Explain the appeal of Harem Anime

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Actually, yeah. The rant at least suggests that you have a reason beyond, "I'm not into it and thus I dismiss it as garbage." You could take the ambiguous route, but everyone will just assume the worst about you if you do.

It's not beyond reason by its definition. It's nothing if not partly a rationalism. And if you have a problem with people at least explaining why they don't like something, then I warrant you are the one who is actually "beyond reason."

Dare I posit that if your only response with me calling it as thinly veiled, shallow artifice like most people in this thread is; "Nuh uh..." then congratulations for arguing tone rather than anything else.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Not really. Again, there's a fair bit of good stuff in there. Mahou Sensei Negima! would technically count as Harem, as would Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei. Both of those are kickass series.

Would you prefer it if I said nearly all harem anime is utter garbage and ridiculously retarded, with no plot because plot would alienate from indescribably pathetic notions being surrounded by sexual tension is impossible to watch for anythong more than the vaguest skin of integrity that is the worst aspects of style over substance in consumerist aesthetics?

That it is representative of art for the worst possible reasons for its existence, purely artifice, and the fact that it is so economically feasible to produce it is perhaps the greatest single detriment to the integrity of visual artistry and cheapens its existence as a whole?

Or would you rather I just said it's garbage and save you a rant rather than spend longer conceptualising my particular dislike? I will say I don't particularly care if you like it. My problem with it is bigger than if you like it or not. And I'm not really that invested in this actual subject to query whether it is at all redeemable. I've seen enough to tell me it's generally awful. Just like I've seen enough Big Bang Theory to know it is genuinely awful. Also enough House of Cards to know it will never be as good as the BBC classic.

I WOULD prefer you go into detail actually. Pretty much all I'm getting from you so far is "I don't like it so it's garbage."

I mean, if you just left it at "I don't like it" that would be one thing. Not everyone is going to like a genre, and to expect otherwise would be madness. (Again, not a fan of sports games.) But to refer to an entire genre of a medium as garbage is the sort of thing that draws eyes, and to leave it as you did basically implies that you consider it garbage simply because it doesn't interest you.

I mean, alter a few choice words in what you put down here and you could pretty easily turn it into a condemnation of Shonen comics, Romance Novels, Romantic Comedies, and Slasher Movies.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Sorry. I don't think there is a nicer way to categorize this entire genre of garbage.

Daily Life With Monster Girl and Ranma 1/2 are garbage to you?

Can't speak to Monster Girls, but Ranma Half was a martial arts comedy that had a lot of female secondary characters.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, no one liked Tenchi Muyo for Tenchi.

That just means you were wrong twice [/joke]

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I WOULD prefer you go into detail actually. Pretty much all I'm getting from you so far is "I don't like it so it's garbage."

Been a good enough reason for film critics to exist for 100 years.

I mean, if you just left it at "I don't like it" that would be one thing. Not everyone is going to like a genre, and to expect otherwise would be madness. (Again, not a fan of sports games.) But to refer to an entire genre of a medium as garbage is the sort of thing that draws eyes, and to leave it as you did basically implies that you consider it garbage simply because it doesn't interest you.

Okay.

I find it pandering nonsense, with 2 dimensional writers writing 1 dimensional characters which archetype human behaviour to the point of popularised concepts of moe and the fact that that's enough makes me feel insulted to watch it beyond an episode in most cases. Because, let's face it, one episode is enough to get concept and the only reason to watch more than one episode is to see the potential of cliche dramatic additions of new characters to the mix.

That the grand majority of them are so frightened (spineless) of pissing off their audiences by picking a vapid, farcical archetype as canon love interest over the others exists simply to maintain a teased viewership of idiots who invest far too much of their passions holding up a consumerist vision of stupid, hollow, beauty-less characters and which of the automatons should get shipped with what amorphous, unmemorable character that is at best an indescribable void emulating humanity with the subtlety and nuance of Robot from the 60's Lost in Space.

I find it much more fun to imagine I'm watching conspiracy theory proof of Reptilians.

Placing any cultural value of it in the realms of 90s sitromcoms and daytime soaps, and in the latter they at least have the courage to have characters actually hook up (even if they then suffer something like death/amnesia by drama). It's mindless pap... and if that's good enough for you, fine. But then don't cry crocodile tears when someone finds it mindless pap.

To put it plainly. 99% of them are destined to be forgotten in a few years time. It's the instant ramen bowl of visual content. Something which is palatable only when you exclude the effort to have anything else. Empty energy that is occupying time in your life and that's disappointing, but understandable. Considered decent if only by association to an amorphous genre of ridiculously similar content that serves to reinforce mild deviations of flavour as if to be so separate from the whole.

Oriental Maggi noodles is crap. So is beef.

Both disappointing and both understandable.

I'm not going to conclude all instant ramen tastes like congealed rat vomit ...I'm also going to have misgivings about the next new one I eat.

I mean, alter a few choice words in what you put down here and you could pretty easily turn it into a condemnation of Shonen comics, Romance Novels, Romantic Comedies, and Slasher Movies.

Hell no. I fucking love Patlabor. I fucking love Ash vs. the Evil Dead. Spice and Wolf, read the manga, all the light novels, and own two individually bought collections of the anime, and I'll treat it as if its own thing regardless of the artistic method of its creation.

Spice and Wolf is smart, funny, and at the sametime ... I get the sneaking suspicion that's why it's so fucking difficult to get a Season 3 of the anime because you can't ship characters and the characters don't just devolve into moe but grow, change, react differently, and even begin to reflect the qualities they see in eachother which influence sll aspects of their life on the road and their life goals which are mutable as is anyone's.

And when I see the dominance of sequelitis in U.S. tv shows, and harem anime they mostly leave me with the same impression ... that this sells, and ultimately something like Spice and Wolf has to sacrifice for artistic integrity.

House of Cards, like many British television programmes, told a meaningful story that 4 seasons of U.S. version can't. It's also why I quite like Rogue One. It's an entire story constrained to a single movie. That takes far more skill than making an interconnected trilogy of plot... which is why RotJ is fucking garbage and the constant re-envisioning of the originals by Lucas is so bad that even diehard fans hate the guy with a passion. Visceral hate.

And this is a problem in every media form. It's an accepted condition of market forces. Fine. But harem anime, even going so far as to cut and paste plot, character, narrative structure, gets a free pass because it's technically a different animu show even as people piss vinegar how the protagonist in Rogue One is somewhat similar to the protagonist in The Force Aakens? I can't be the only one with cognitive dissonance trying to understand this phenomena.

If the prime argument is; "Yeah, but different standards..." then it's not unfair to say those standards are based purely on one's tolerance for mindless crap. Your tolerance might be higher than mine. And all power to you.

 

[maninahat]

Pandering to virgin shut-ins

I question the need of 'virgin' and 'shut-ins' when it comes to sex. Like the Harem anime fantasy seems pretty straight forward to me, "Here's a hot girl, you can have sex with her. Here's another hot girl, you can also have sex with her. Here's a third hot girl, you know what to do, etc..."
That just seems like a pretty standard sexual fantasy to me, one that virgins and people who have had sex both have. And shut-ins? I'm not sure that's necessary. I think most people would enjoy being able to have sex with multiple attractive people, regardless of social skills.

I think its just straight up sexual fantasy.

I think it is apt, in that anime has an appeal towards teenagers and young adults, and an ego stroking fantasy in which a guy has a gang of nubile women literally falling into his lap would appeal particularly to the sexually inexperienced, socially awkward guy. That's not to say it can't be other people's fantasy of course, but they are a bit specialized. I remember the first one I watched, Chobits, and even at the time I couldn't help notice that every woman in the show seemed to share some degree of brain damage.

 

[sageoftruth]

Actually, yeah. The rant at least suggests that you have a reason beyond, "I'm not into it and thus I dismiss it as garbage." You could take the ambiguous route, but everyone will just assume the worst about you if you do.

It's not beyond reason by its definition. It's nothing if not partly a rationalism. And if you have a problem with people at least explaining why they don't like something, then I warrant you are the one who is actually "beyond reason."

Dare I posit that if your only response with me calling it as thinly veiled, shallow artifice like most people in this thread is; "Nuh uh..." then congratulations for arguing tone rather than anything else.

Saying you don't like something isn't the same as calling it "garbage".

 

[Sonmi]

Escapism.

Harem anime are the male weeb equivalent to sappy romance novels/serials featuring romantic triangles.

Also, waifu wars are an efficient way to sell your product.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Sorry. I don't think there is a nicer way to categorize this entire genre of garbage.

Daily Life With Monster Girl and Ranma 1/2 are garbage to you?

Can't speak to Monster Girls, but Ranma Half was a martial arts comedy that had a lot of female secondary characters.

And most of those female secondary characters wanted in Ranma's pants.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Sorry. I don't think there is a nicer way to categorize this entire genre of garbage.

Daily Life With Monster Girl and Ranma 1/2 are garbage to you?

Can't speak to Monster Girls, but Ranma Half was a martial arts comedy that had a lot of female secondary characters.

And most of those female secondary characters wanted in Ranma's pants.

So do most of the male characters, at least initially. Point is, the harem aspects aren't what the show is about. Ranma is a martial arts comedy.

 

[Satinavian]

With the same argument you could argue that fate stay night or Schwarzesmarken are not harem animes as there are other things beside the harem aspect present - as is for pretty much every harem anime series out there.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

With the same argument you could argue that fate stay night or Schwarzesmarken are not harem animes as there are other things beside the harem aspect present - as is for pretty much every harem anime series out there.

At no point did I ever get the impression that Fate Stay Night was a harem anime.

EDIT: Or Sword Art Online, for that matter. I mean, I only started paying attention halfway through the first arc, but most of the aspects of a harem show just aren't there. Plenty of waifus, sure, but SAO isn't about them. To the point where when I look at a cast list I don't recognize most of them, because they stop showing up.

 

[McElroy]

those people usually have high anxiety issues

This implies producers of harem anime are exploiting people with anxiety issues. Way to go!

Basically, people are entitled to like what they like, if you don't see the appeal then just ignore it rather than try to insult the fans for it.

Harem anime panders to a pathetic market that nobody would voluntarily be a part of (otakus that is). That much needs to be said.

 

[sageoftruth]

I WOULD prefer you go into detail actually. Pretty much all I'm getting from you so far is "I don't like it so it's garbage."

Been a good enough reason for film critics to exist for 100 years.

I mean, if you just left it at "I don't like it" that would be one thing. Not everyone is going to like a genre, and to expect otherwise would be madness. (Again, not a fan of sports games.) But to refer to an entire genre of a medium as garbage is the sort of thing that draws eyes, and to leave it as you did basically implies that you consider it garbage simply because it doesn't interest you.

Okay.

I find it pandering nonsense, with 2 dimensional writers writing 1 dimensional characters which archetype human behaviour to the point of popularised concepts of moe and the fact that that's enough makes me feel insulted to watch it beyond an episode in most cases. Because, let's face it, one episode is enough to get concept and the only reason to watch more than one episode is to see the potential of cliche dramatic additions of new characters to the mix.

That the grand majority of them are so frightened (spineless) of pissing off their audiences by picking a vapid, farcical archetype as canon love interest over the others exists simply to maintain a teased viewership of idiots who invest far too much of their passions holding up a consumerist vision of stupid, hollow, beauty-less characters and which of the automatons should get shipped with what amorphous, unmemorable character that is at best an indescribable void emulating humanity with the subtlety and nuance of Robot from the 60's Lost in Space.

I find it much more fun to imagine I'm watching conspiracy theory proof of Reptilians.

Placing any cultural value of it in the realms of 90s sitromcoms and daytime soaps, and in the latter they at least have the courage to have characters actually hook up (even if they then suffer something like death/amnesia by drama). It's mindless pap... and if that's good enough for you, fine. But then don't cry crocodile tears when someone finds it mindless pap.

To put it plainly. 99% of them are destined to be forgotten in a few years time. It's the instant ramen bowl of visual content. Something which is palatable only when you exclude the effort to have anything else. Empty energy that is occupying time in your life and that's disappointing, but understandable. Considered decent if only by association to an amorphous genre of ridiculously similar content that serves to reinforce mild deviations of flavour as if to be so separate from the whole.

Oriental Maggi noodles is crap. So is beef.

Both disappointing and both understandable.

I'm not going to conclude all instant ramen tastes like congealed rat vomit ...I'm also going to have misgivings about the next new one I eat.

I mean, alter a few choice words in what you put down here and you could pretty easily turn it into a condemnation of Shonen comics, Romance Novels, Romantic Comedies, and Slasher Movies.

Hell no. I fucking love Patlabor. I fucking love Ash vs. the Evil Dead. Spice and Wolf, read the manga, all the light novels, and own two individually bought collections of the anime, and I'll treat it as if its own thing regardless of the artistic method of its creation.

Spice and Wolf is smart, funny, and at the sametime ... I get the sneaking suspicion that's why it's so fucking difficult to get a Season 3 of the anime because you can't ship characters and the characters don't just devolve into moe but grow, change, react differently, and even begin to reflect the qualities they see in eachother which influence sll aspects of their life on the road and their life goals which are mutable as is anyone's.

And when I see the dominance of sequelitis in U.S. tv shows, and harem anime they mostly leave me with the same impression ... that this sells, and ultimately something like Spice and Wolf has to sacrifice for artistic integrity.

House of Cards, like many British television programmes, told a meaningful story that 4 seasons of U.S. version can't. It's also why I quite like Rogue One. It's an entire story constrained to a single movie. That takes far more skill than making an interconnected trilogy of plot... which is why RotJ is fucking garbage and the constant re-envisioning of the originals by Lucas is so bad that even diehard fans hate the guy with a passion. Visceral hate.

And this is a problem in every media form. It's an accepted condition of market forces. Fine. But harem anime, even going so far as to cut and paste plot, character, narrative structure, gets a free pass because it's technically a different animu show even as people piss vinegar how the protagonist in Rogue One is somewhat similar to the protagonist in The Force Aakens? I can't be the only one with cognitive dissonance trying to understand this phenomena.

If the prime argument is; "Yeah, but different standards..." then it's not unfair to say those standards are based purely on one's tolerance for mindless crap. Your tolerance might be higher than mine. And all power to you.

There we go. That's far more enlightening. A real interesting read.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

those people usually have high anxiety issues

This implies producers of harem anime are exploiting people with anxiety issues. Way to go!

Basically, people are entitled to like what they like, if you don't see the appeal then just ignore it rather than try to insult the fans for it.

Harem anime panders to a pathetic market that nobody would voluntarily be a part of (otakus that is). That much needs to be said.

Not like the same couldn't be said of everyone on this forum for being a bunch of nerds...

 

[McElroy]

those people usually have high anxiety issues

This implies producers of harem anime are exploiting people with anxiety issues. Way to go!

Basically, people are entitled to like what they like, if you don't see the appeal then just ignore it rather than try to insult the fans for it.

Harem anime panders to a pathetic market that nobody would voluntarily be a part of (otakus that is). That much needs to be said.

Not like the same couldn't be said of everyone on this forum for being a bunch of nerds...

Escapistmagazine.com panders to a bunch of nerds. Yee-ah, kinda vague, but maybe I get the idea. Perhaps a similar negative statement could be made about Supercell's (and the like) games being soulless cash-grabs that try to make spending more money as addictive as possible. Or maybe about the toxicity of LoL or something like that.

Anyway, even I, a resident anime hater, don't hate all of it and I wouldn't start ranting about otakus and so on upon somebody telling me they like this or that anime series. However, my alarm bells start going off when one loves an anime for the same reasons the Japanese otakus do, and when that aforementioned pandering becomes another part of the appeal. Similarly somebody could say they like WoW because they don't have to go outside to talk to anyone, which I think would be worrying.

 

[Jux]

Pandering to virgin shut-ins

To expound on this a little, I think it plays to and perpetuates the idea that all guys need to do is 'be nice' to be deserving of female sexual attention.

I personally find it a boring fantasy, and the majority of those male protagonists to be feckless, wishy washy toolbags.

 

[Lightspeaker]

With the same argument you could argue that fate stay night or Schwarzesmarken are not harem animes as there are other things beside the harem aspect present - as is for pretty much every harem anime series out there.

At no point did I ever get the impression that Fate Stay Night was a harem anime.

EDIT: Or Sword Art Online, for that matter. I mean, I only started paying attention halfway through the first arc, but most of the aspects of a harem show just aren't there. Plenty of waifus, sure, but SAO isn't about them. To the point where when I look at a cast list I don't recognize most of them, because they stop showing up.

That's because neither are.

Fate/stay night originates in the eroge Visual Novel which is very explicitly divided into three distinct paths (Fate, Unlimited Blade Works and Heaven's Feel) featuring three distinct romance pathways (Saber, Rin and Sakura respectively). In the game each route is very specifically a love story with the heroine of that particular route and the anime series follows the same path. It isn't a harem story.

Sword Art Online has more elements of the harem setup (a diverse cast of girls, all of whom are in love with the main character) but since there is one, clear couple who are very clearly and distinctly together (i.e. Kirito and Asuna) its hard to argue that its a harem series.

An ACTUAL harem series is something like Monster Musume. Or Kiss Him, Not Me. Where the entire premise is the diverse cast of girls/boys all competing for the attention of the the protagonist.



Anyway to add a few comments...firstly I agree with those saying about how there isn't anything particularly 'special' about it. Its a fairly normal fantasy to be wanted by lots of attractive men/women (depending on your own preferences). Its pretty much the anime equivalent of lightweight romance novels. That isn't to say the series can't be very GOOD but that is entirely down to the characters. Good characters make for an entertaining series.

Generally speaking they are reluctant to make any specific pairing 'official' (because that basically undermines the purpose of the entire show) and therefore put barriers in the way of that. In my aforementioned examples...in Monster Musume there are legal restrictions requiring Kimihito to actually marry one of the girls if they want to...ah..."get together". And in Kiss Him, Not Me Kae herself is both not sure how to deal with the attention of the cast of boys but is also far more interested in them pairing off themselves (due to her being a huge fan of yaoi).

It is also true to say that the shows are pretty explicitly not about the central protagonist. Oh they can be important and interesting but by far the most important element is the members of the harem themselves. A diverse range of personalities which allows everyone to pick out someone they like best and cheer them on, so to speak.

It also provides a fairly easy setting for gentle and 'naughty' jokes. So in short its simply lightweight romantic character-based comedy with a diverse cast that appeals to people's fantasies. There's nothing more about the concept to explain.

 

[Jux]

From an evolutionary psychology perspective, harem anime is perfectly natural.

Humans are biologically predisposed to polygamy. A man can reproduce with any number of females at a time, while a female can only get pregnant once every 9 months, ergo, men have a greater biological motivation to have as many partners as possible.

Women tend to be more social and cooperative, which facilitates groups of women being willing to compromise and work together, and overcome jealousy as part of the harem group.

If you need further evidence, you can look at gorilla and chimpanzee social groups to see a similar dynamic in other primates.

In short, the reason harem anime exists is the same reason that harems/polygamous/serially monogamous relationships have existed throughout history: It's nice work if you can get it.

Appeals to 'evolutionary psychology' usually send up red flags for me. Counterpoint: an argument could be made that humans are predisposed to monogamy because if a man wants to ensure that it's his genes getting passed along, it's probably best not to just fuck and run. And considering the time frame in which human children take to become self sufficient, I think further arguments could be made that monogamous pairings be even more crucial.

Of course, I don't think humans are 'predisposed' either way, rather that social/survival pressures necessitated one over the other.

edit: and as far as harem anime goes, it absolutely pushes a monogamous message over a polygamous one. The protagonist only ends up with one suitor in the end, the whole schtick is the conflict of the different suitors vying for the protagonists interest and commitment.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I think people get caught up for what this is "supposed" to be, ending up overlooking what it actually is.


I was reading this manga in Comic High (it's a manga magazine like shounen jump) and part of the name of the magazine explained it as "girly manga for men and boys", if that makes sense.


Harem anime is basically "otaku anime for everyone", in the same vein. Some are good, some are bad, most people like the good ones for the good chars in them, and dislike the bad ones, like you would dislike any such thing. That harem anime may be seen as pandering to a stereotype doesn't mean that they actually do that. What it means is that a lot more people like such content, despite not belonging in that group. To know this one just has to look at the average audience age and size range. SAO especially sells oodles and has a bunch of high content games based on it get made and all this stuff. You can't support something that has this much investment off of just otaku money. And yeah SAO isn't a pure harem show, it has elements of it, like how everything has RPG elements in games nowadays. Harem elements are just that regular and usual and normal.



This reminds me of a panel I was watching a while back, this English localization expert was telling a story about the 90s and anime sales vs hentai sales. Based on anime sales there were maybe 5000 active anime fans but hentai sales were like 60000 but the stereotype is that anime fans are the ones who like hentai while most of it was bought by regular perverts who don't get the stigma (unless you know of people who don't buy their anime but do buy their hentai lol). This is the same kind of situation, you are blaming a small group when a much larger group also shares in their tastes and does so in a more hidden, self-denying way. It's wrong in that it stigmatizes one group more than it deserves since their behavior is not actually all that unusual and it is also wrong in that it restricts people who may like something from freely expressing it to avoid being stigmatized.

From an evolutionary psychology perspective, harem anime is perfectly natural.

Humans are biologically predisposed to polygamy. A man can reproduce with any number of females at a time, while a female can only get pregnant once every 9 months, ergo, men have a greater biological motivation to have as many partners as possible.

Women tend to be more social and cooperative, which facilitates groups of women being willing to compromise and work together, and overcome jealousy as part of the harem group.

If you need further evidence, you can look at gorilla and chimpanzee social groups to see a similar dynamic in other primates.

In short, the reason harem anime exists is the same reason that harems/polygamous/serially monogamous relationships have existed throughout history: It's nice work if you can get it.

Appeals to 'evolutionary psychology' usually send up red flags for me. Counterpoint: an argument could be made that humans are predisposed to monogamy because if a man wants to ensure that it's his genes getting passed along, it's probably best not to just fuck and run. And considering the time frame in which human children take to become self sufficient, I think further arguments could be made that monogamous pairings be even more crucial.

Of course, I don't think humans are 'predisposed' either way, rather that social/survival pressures necessitated one over the other.

edit: and as far as harem anime goes, it absolutely pushes a monogamous message over a polygamous one. The protagonist only ends up with one suitor in the end, the whole schtick is the conflict of the different suitors vying for the protagonists interest and commitment.

You are right but you are undoing your intended point in being right.

While of course having a monogamous relationship is more of a way to ensure your genes moving on than everyone fucking everyone, a harem isn't that. See, the women don't have sex with more than one man, the man just has sex with more than one women, that way it minimizes the risks posed by infertility and even if one or two of em cheat, you have all the rest left, while if your monogamous partner cheats and has someone else's child without you knowing your genes are screwed. Certain kings of antiquity had literally hundreds of children through having harems, that's where the concept begun. I remember this South America king who was said to drink coffee such that he could have sex for 12 hours a day every day, and he'd drink a ton of coffee to make it work out.

 

[Gengisgame]

I'm not even a fan of anime but there's a lot of pretentious hate in this thread.

Wish fulfilment, same as 50 Shades, Twilight or a porno where the woman throws herself at the man.

If we are discussing the psychology behind it then let's discuss the psychology behind the hate. They have a problem with males seeking sexual pleasure from things other than women. Subconsciously we think that a man should be out trying to have as much sex as possible, if he is not doing this then he is seen as disgusting, it's very similar to how we subconsciously see easy women as disgusting because she is not safegaurding her reproductive abilities to the right mate. On a rational level there is rarely an issue but we still find men who can't or won't get sex as failures and women who give it up to a lot of men as failures on an instinctual level.

If a woman has sex toys to pleasure herself no one really cares that much, maybe seen as kinky, a blow up doll is seen as something to be ashamed of.