Explain the appeal of Harem Anime

[Specter Von Baren]

those people usually have high anxiety issues

This implies producers of harem anime are exploiting people with anxiety issues. Way to go!

Basically, people are entitled to like what they like, if you don't see the appeal then just ignore it rather than try to insult the fans for it.

Harem anime panders to a pathetic market that nobody would voluntarily be a part of (otakus that is). That much needs to be said.

Not like the same couldn't be said of everyone on this forum for being a bunch of nerds...

 

[McElroy]

those people usually have high anxiety issues

This implies producers of harem anime are exploiting people with anxiety issues. Way to go!

Basically, people are entitled to like what they like, if you don't see the appeal then just ignore it rather than try to insult the fans for it.

Harem anime panders to a pathetic market that nobody would voluntarily be a part of (otakus that is). That much needs to be said.

Not like the same couldn't be said of everyone on this forum for being a bunch of nerds...

Escapistmagazine.com panders to a bunch of nerds. Yee-ah, kinda vague, but maybe I get the idea. Perhaps a similar negative statement could be made about Supercell's (and the like) games being soulless cash-grabs that try to make spending more money as addictive as possible. Or maybe about the toxicity of LoL or something like that.

Anyway, even I, a resident anime hater, don't hate all of it and I wouldn't start ranting about otakus and so on upon somebody telling me they like this or that anime series. However, my alarm bells start going off when one loves an anime for the same reasons the Japanese otakus do, and when that aforementioned pandering becomes another part of the appeal. Similarly somebody could say they like WoW because they don't have to go outside to talk to anyone, which I think would be worrying.

 

[Jux]

Pandering to virgin shut-ins

To expound on this a little, I think it plays to and perpetuates the idea that all guys need to do is 'be nice' to be deserving of female sexual attention.

I personally find it a boring fantasy, and the majority of those male protagonists to be feckless, wishy washy toolbags.

 

[Lightspeaker]

With the same argument you could argue that fate stay night or Schwarzesmarken are not harem animes as there are other things beside the harem aspect present - as is for pretty much every harem anime series out there.

At no point did I ever get the impression that Fate Stay Night was a harem anime.

EDIT: Or Sword Art Online, for that matter. I mean, I only started paying attention halfway through the first arc, but most of the aspects of a harem show just aren't there. Plenty of waifus, sure, but SAO isn't about them. To the point where when I look at a cast list I don't recognize most of them, because they stop showing up.

That's because neither are.

Fate/stay night originates in the eroge Visual Novel which is very explicitly divided into three distinct paths (Fate, Unlimited Blade Works and Heaven's Feel) featuring three distinct romance pathways (Saber, Rin and Sakura respectively). In the game each route is very specifically a love story with the heroine of that particular route and the anime series follows the same path. It isn't a harem story.

Sword Art Online has more elements of the harem setup (a diverse cast of girls, all of whom are in love with the main character) but since there is one, clear couple who are very clearly and distinctly together (i.e. Kirito and Asuna) its hard to argue that its a harem series.

An ACTUAL harem series is something like Monster Musume. Or Kiss Him, Not Me. Where the entire premise is the diverse cast of girls/boys all competing for the attention of the the protagonist.



Anyway to add a few comments...firstly I agree with those saying about how there isn't anything particularly 'special' about it. Its a fairly normal fantasy to be wanted by lots of attractive men/women (depending on your own preferences). Its pretty much the anime equivalent of lightweight romance novels. That isn't to say the series can't be very GOOD but that is entirely down to the characters. Good characters make for an entertaining series.

Generally speaking they are reluctant to make any specific pairing 'official' (because that basically undermines the purpose of the entire show) and therefore put barriers in the way of that. In my aforementioned examples...in Monster Musume there are legal restrictions requiring Kimihito to actually marry one of the girls if they want to...ah..."get together". And in Kiss Him, Not Me Kae herself is both not sure how to deal with the attention of the cast of boys but is also far more interested in them pairing off themselves (due to her being a huge fan of yaoi).

It is also true to say that the shows are pretty explicitly not about the central protagonist. Oh they can be important and interesting but by far the most important element is the members of the harem themselves. A diverse range of personalities which allows everyone to pick out someone they like best and cheer them on, so to speak.

It also provides a fairly easy setting for gentle and 'naughty' jokes. So in short its simply lightweight romantic character-based comedy with a diverse cast that appeals to people's fantasies. There's nothing more about the concept to explain.

 

[Jux]

From an evolutionary psychology perspective, harem anime is perfectly natural.

Humans are biologically predisposed to polygamy. A man can reproduce with any number of females at a time, while a female can only get pregnant once every 9 months, ergo, men have a greater biological motivation to have as many partners as possible.

Women tend to be more social and cooperative, which facilitates groups of women being willing to compromise and work together, and overcome jealousy as part of the harem group.

If you need further evidence, you can look at gorilla and chimpanzee social groups to see a similar dynamic in other primates.

In short, the reason harem anime exists is the same reason that harems/polygamous/serially monogamous relationships have existed throughout history: It's nice work if you can get it.

Appeals to 'evolutionary psychology' usually send up red flags for me. Counterpoint: an argument could be made that humans are predisposed to monogamy because if a man wants to ensure that it's his genes getting passed along, it's probably best not to just fuck and run. And considering the time frame in which human children take to become self sufficient, I think further arguments could be made that monogamous pairings be even more crucial.

Of course, I don't think humans are 'predisposed' either way, rather that social/survival pressures necessitated one over the other.

edit: and as far as harem anime goes, it absolutely pushes a monogamous message over a polygamous one. The protagonist only ends up with one suitor in the end, the whole schtick is the conflict of the different suitors vying for the protagonists interest and commitment.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I think people get caught up for what this is "supposed" to be, ending up overlooking what it actually is.


I was reading this manga in Comic High (it's a manga magazine like shounen jump) and part of the name of the magazine explained it as "girly manga for men and boys", if that makes sense.


Harem anime is basically "otaku anime for everyone", in the same vein. Some are good, some are bad, most people like the good ones for the good chars in them, and dislike the bad ones, like you would dislike any such thing. That harem anime may be seen as pandering to a stereotype doesn't mean that they actually do that. What it means is that a lot more people like such content, despite not belonging in that group. To know this one just has to look at the average audience age and size range. SAO especially sells oodles and has a bunch of high content games based on it get made and all this stuff. You can't support something that has this much investment off of just otaku money. And yeah SAO isn't a pure harem show, it has elements of it, like how everything has RPG elements in games nowadays. Harem elements are just that regular and usual and normal.



This reminds me of a panel I was watching a while back, this English localization expert was telling a story about the 90s and anime sales vs hentai sales. Based on anime sales there were maybe 5000 active anime fans but hentai sales were like 60000 but the stereotype is that anime fans are the ones who like hentai while most of it was bought by regular perverts who don't get the stigma (unless you know of people who don't buy their anime but do buy their hentai lol). This is the same kind of situation, you are blaming a small group when a much larger group also shares in their tastes and does so in a more hidden, self-denying way. It's wrong in that it stigmatizes one group more than it deserves since their behavior is not actually all that unusual and it is also wrong in that it restricts people who may like something from freely expressing it to avoid being stigmatized.

From an evolutionary psychology perspective, harem anime is perfectly natural.

Humans are biologically predisposed to polygamy. A man can reproduce with any number of females at a time, while a female can only get pregnant once every 9 months, ergo, men have a greater biological motivation to have as many partners as possible.

Women tend to be more social and cooperative, which facilitates groups of women being willing to compromise and work together, and overcome jealousy as part of the harem group.

If you need further evidence, you can look at gorilla and chimpanzee social groups to see a similar dynamic in other primates.

In short, the reason harem anime exists is the same reason that harems/polygamous/serially monogamous relationships have existed throughout history: It's nice work if you can get it.

Appeals to 'evolutionary psychology' usually send up red flags for me. Counterpoint: an argument could be made that humans are predisposed to monogamy because if a man wants to ensure that it's his genes getting passed along, it's probably best not to just fuck and run. And considering the time frame in which human children take to become self sufficient, I think further arguments could be made that monogamous pairings be even more crucial.

Of course, I don't think humans are 'predisposed' either way, rather that social/survival pressures necessitated one over the other.

edit: and as far as harem anime goes, it absolutely pushes a monogamous message over a polygamous one. The protagonist only ends up with one suitor in the end, the whole schtick is the conflict of the different suitors vying for the protagonists interest and commitment.

You are right but you are undoing your intended point in being right.

While of course having a monogamous relationship is more of a way to ensure your genes moving on than everyone fucking everyone, a harem isn't that. See, the women don't have sex with more than one man, the man just has sex with more than one women, that way it minimizes the risks posed by infertility and even if one or two of em cheat, you have all the rest left, while if your monogamous partner cheats and has someone else's child without you knowing your genes are screwed. Certain kings of antiquity had literally hundreds of children through having harems, that's where the concept begun. I remember this South America king who was said to drink coffee such that he could have sex for 12 hours a day every day, and he'd drink a ton of coffee to make it work out.

 

[Gengisgame]

I'm not even a fan of anime but there's a lot of pretentious hate in this thread.

Wish fulfilment, same as 50 Shades, Twilight or a porno where the woman throws herself at the man.

If we are discussing the psychology behind it then let's discuss the psychology behind the hate. They have a problem with males seeking sexual pleasure from things other than women. Subconsciously we think that a man should be out trying to have as much sex as possible, if he is not doing this then he is seen as disgusting, it's very similar to how we subconsciously see easy women as disgusting because she is not safegaurding her reproductive abilities to the right mate. On a rational level there is rarely an issue but we still find men who can't or won't get sex as failures and women who give it up to a lot of men as failures on an instinctual level.

If a woman has sex toys to pleasure herself no one really cares that much, maybe seen as kinky, a blow up doll is seen as something to be ashamed of.

 

[iwinatlife]

Both my Girlfriend and I enjoy Harem/ Reverse Harem Alot becuase the characters are interesting.
Such As Fruits basket, Love Hina , Ouran , and recently Kiss him not me.
We even have wall scrolls for a couple .

But yes we like most of those in spite of the protagonist, Especially Keitaro and Tohru

 

[Jux]

While of course having a monogamous relationship is more of a way to ensure your genes moving on than everyone fucking everyone, a harem isn't that. See, the women don't have sex with more than one man, the man just has sex with more than one women, that way it minimizes the risks posed by infertility and even if one or two of em cheat, you have all the rest left, while if your monogamous partner cheats and has someone else's child without you knowing your genes are screwed. Certain kings of antiquity had literally hundreds of children through having harems, that's where the concept begun. I remember this South America king who was said to drink coffee such that he could have sex for 12 hours a day every day, and he'd drink a ton of coffee to make it work out.

Harem anime doesn't follow this formula though. It may be called a harem because it's multiple members of one gender vying to the attention of a single member of the other, but in all the ones I've seen, the protagonist doesn't actually get them all.

And yea, mating strategies are typically more complicated than just a binary mono/polygamous, enforced social hierarchies are, as I stated above, a type of pressure. That doesn't mean one is predisposed one way or another, as my conclusion stated.

 

[RaikuFA]

Pandering to virgin shut-ins

Which makes it incredibly weird how blue-balling so many of them are - 'oh, here's 18 Amazingly Hot, Super Skilled, Slavishly Loyal Women who are all the Ultimate Submissives, BUT NO SEX, NO SEX FOR YOU, NONONO YOU HAVE SEX YOU DIE HORRIBLE, PAINFUL DEATH but also the girls communicate by rubbing their breasts on your head and having random orgasms BUT YOU CANNOT TOUCH YOUR PEE PEE OR YOU WILL EXPLODE WITH DEATH'.

Like, surely the virgin shut-in otakus would want to see someone like them get all sorts of tail, yeah?

Well, there's always hentai. Where the otherwise unremarkable and wimpy male lead turns out to be a sexual virtuose with infinite stamina, improbably sized dick with non-existant refractory period, and, despite no prior experience in bed, inexplained ability to thoroughly satisfy multiple women (often at once) to the point they become addicted to his cock/pass out from pleasure. This guy doesn't just get to sex all his haremettes, but also their best friends. Their moms. Their older sisters. Their little sisters. His own mom and sisters. Basically anything with a vagina that appears on-page/screen.

As for non-hentai often not including sex, I suppose that's partly because any harem manga/anime that actually has the main character engage in sex with his harem would risk landing it in that hentai section if the act is actually shown, depending on how explicit it is.

Also, I suppose many writers wouldn't want to risk losing fans by having the girl that isn't their waifu 'win' by getting it on with the male lead. Unless of course he gets them all in the end, restoring the status quo harem manga/anime seem to love so much. But again, getting all the girls is more the territory of harem hentai.

You should see some of the doujinshi I've read. Lot more believeable. I can give some recommendations.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

snipticon prime

You should see some of the doujinshi I've read. Lot more believeable. I can give some recommendations.

No doubt you could. And yeah, I know there are exceptions to the "main guy is a sex god who bangs every female he meets" hentai trope. I mean, that's what the netorare/netori genre if for. As well as some rarer examples that actually show sexual relationships somewhat realistically, albeit still rather idealized.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

It's easy. You write a blank slate protagonist, you write a bunch of cute female characters with bare bones personalities, you put them in a zany situation, and presto, you have a full season of episodes where you make no progress and you appeal to a very wide audience compared to if you just had the one cute girl. And it's easier than writing a single good romantic pair too since you never have to develop anything. It's cynical cash grabbing. Some of it is better than others, notably when they actually put some depth in the different characters, but most aren't.

 

[MerlinCross]

Myself? I like the characters. If it's done well.

I dislike when it's just blank slate and 5 variation of chests and butts. I also prefer to see that said 'harem' is part of the show rather than the WHOLE show. My personal favorite is Love Hina. Yes he got a whole slew of girls fawning over him about mid way through but the main focuses were him getting into a college/school and his relationship with 2 girls mainly. Granted I dunno if it really counts as a Harem anime.

I stopped keeping up with Rosario + Vampire but that also seemed good to me. Again main character gets a lot of girls but another big focus was "Here's this Human going to a monster school" and the misadventures that followed.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Harem anime doesn't follow this formula though. It may be called a harem because it's multiple members of one gender vying to the attention of a single member of the other, but in all the ones I've seen, the protagonist doesn't actually get them all.

And yea, mating strategies are typically more complicated than just a binary mono/polygamous, enforced social hierarchies are, as I stated above, a type of pressure. That doesn't mean one is predisposed one way or another, as my conclusion stated.

It actually varies, the aforementioned to love ru has a plot about making an actual harem you see. In the normal definition. Of course a lot of the more popular shows do as you say but still, that's kinda the point, when you see a show break out of the mold, be it in interesting characters or not going for the typical true end route with one girl, that's actually a pretty cool show!

It's easy. You write a blank slate protagonist, you write a bunch of cute female characters with bare bones personalities, you put them in a zany situation, and presto, you have a full season of episodes where you make no progress and you appeal to a very wide audience compared to if you just had the one cute girl. And it's easier than writing a single good romantic pair too since you never have to develop anything. It's cynical cash grabbing. Some of it is better than others, notably when they actually put some depth in the different characters, but most aren't.

Good shows play on this expectation, delivering actually-good characters instead of the 5 random shallow girls, in the gap between expectation and reality amusement and glory appears.


Shows where the protagonist doesn't suck like that are more rare but also give you that joy when you inadvertently end up running into one. Negi in mahou sensei negima is top tier shounen protag thrust in a harem mayhem, by the author of Love Hina. I dare you to call Negi boring and blank-slate.

 

[crimsonspear4D]

Harem shows have gone waaaaaaaaay down hill over the years, and it's like they're not even trying to do anything different with the genre other than add MORE bland, incessantly annoying, generic girls to the mix. Let the male protag drown in a sea of T&A that he can never touch or the universe might end.

Harem anime has always had the dubious honor of treating female characters like absolute garbage, but at least in the old days the women were more diverse character-wise and had decent, if not respectable, reasons why they were attracted to the guy, and were rivals actually fighting and competing over suitor, not horny dogs dry-humping the guy's legs or fighting over a chew toy.

I could get back into watching a harem show if there was one where the creators had the fucking balls to actually give a legitimate, credible reason why the guy can't or won't EVEN ATTEMPT at starting a mutual relationship with one or all of the girls. I don't know, like hes asexual or gay or just not attracted "these" women. ITS NOT FUCKING HARD TO COME UP WITH A REASON.

Also, while I have heard that there was ONCE a female audience for harem anime, it was back when it was about which ONE girl hooked up with the man in the end. Like in Tenchi Muyo, it was more about who would Tenchi logically go with: Ryoko OR Ayeka? Now, I can't imagine any woman unironically liking a harem anime. Ecchi, yeah. I mean, I'm a guy and liked a few gaybaiting anime.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

It's easy. You write a blank slate protagonist, you write a bunch of cute female characters with bare bones personalities, you put them in a zany situation, and presto, you have a full season of episodes where you make no progress and you appeal to a very wide audience compared to if you just had the one cute girl. And it's easier than writing a single good romantic pair too since you never have to develop anything. It's cynical cash grabbing. Some of it is better than others, notably when they actually put some depth in the different characters, but most aren't.

Good shows play on this expectation, delivering actually-good characters instead of the 5 random shallow girls, in the gap between expectation and reality amusement and glory appears.

True, but as you said later, they are rare, and unless they try and aim for some higher aspiration by taking on aspects of another genre they will never be more than a Harem anime, that being an extremely shallow romcom. I mean, I genuinely enjoy Monster Girls, but as good as that show is, it is still limited by its genre and I still can't say it really is all that great. It is fucking perfect for what it is, but it is what it is.

Shows where the protagonist doesn't suck like that are more rare but also give you that joy when you inadvertently end up running into one. Negi in mahou sensei negima is top tier shounen protag thrust in a harem mayhem, by the author of Love Hina. I dare you to call Negi boring and blank-slate.

Negima (punctuation varies) would be great were it not for how absurdly awkward it makes me feel. Great for young teens fantasizing about young teens. Terrible for any kind of adult. I do wish it was just straight shounen action like Ken apparently wanted it to be though. Would have been pretty great.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

It's easy. You write a blank slate protagonist, you write a bunch of cute female characters with bare bones personalities, you put them in a zany situation, and presto, you have a full season of episodes where you make no progress and you appeal to a very wide audience compared to if you just had the one cute girl. And it's easier than writing a single good romantic pair too since you never have to develop anything. It's cynical cash grabbing. Some of it is better than others, notably when they actually put some depth in the different characters, but most aren't.

Good shows play on this expectation, delivering actually-good characters instead of the 5 random shallow girls, in the gap between expectation and reality amusement and glory appears.

True, but as you said later, they are rare, and unless they try and aim for some higher aspiration by taking on aspects of another genre they will never be more than a Harem anime, that being an extremely shallow romcom. I mean, I genuinely enjoy Monster Girls, but as good as that show is, it is still limited by its genre and I still can't say it really is all that great. It is fucking perfect for what it is, but it is what it is.

Shows where the protagonist doesn't suck like that are more rare but also give you that joy when you inadvertently end up running into one. Negi in mahou sensei negima is top tier shounen protag thrust in a harem mayhem, by the author of Love Hina. I dare you to call Negi boring and blank-slate.

Negima (punctuation varies) would be great were it not for how absurdly awkward it makes me feel. Great for young teens fantasizing about young teens. Terrible for any kind of adult. I do wish it was just straight shounen action like Ken apparently wanted it to be though. Would have been pretty great.

The main point is that there is hope and there's a lot of good stuff so no need to be overly down on something or classify it as having no redeeming values as I saw happen in this topic. Monster Musume is a liiiitle too weird for me but to love ru and kiss x sis deliver the best that the pure harem genre has to offer.


As for Negima, I think your issue is with Akamatsu's art style which is youthful-looking by nature. Also during the time of its serialization in Japan there were political battles about lolicon anime and manga and Ken was actually a representative of the manga side so the character Evangeline was created as a response to the criticisms that were being levered against the genre. Under that context, all those things that make you feel awkward are Ken trolling the puritan censors he was opposing, which made for a glorious read. The setting also indeed was middle school which is around the prime age for shonen series so you don't really need to pay attention to it much, most anime chars seldom act their age. Hell Yoko in Gurren Lagann was 14 during the first part.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

The main point is that there is hope and there's a lot of good stuff so no need to be overly down on something or classify it as having no redeeming values as I saw happen in this topic. Monster Musume is a liiiitle too weird for me but to love ru and kiss x sis deliver the best that the pure harem genre has to offer.

I'd like to make it clear that I don't think the genre has many redeeming values unless It aims to be something other than a harem anime as well.

As for Negima, I think your issue is with Akamatsu's art style which is youthful-looking by nature. Also during the time of its serialization in Japan there were political battles about lolicon anime and manga and Ken was actually a representative of the manga side so the character Evangeline was created as a response to the criticisms that were being levered against the genre. Under that context, all those things that make you feel awkward are Ken trolling the puritan censors he was opposing, which made for a glorious read. The setting also indeed was middle school which is around the prime age for shonen series so you don't really need to pay attention to it much, most anime chars seldom act their age. Hell Yoko in Gurren Lagann was 14 during the first part.

Except that it is about girls from 12 to 14 molesting a pre-pubescent kid. That is not ok. When you're just hitting puberty it sure seems like a dream come true. When you're 20 something years old, it is kinda awkward.

 

[sanquin]

Which makes it incredibly weird how blue-balling so many of them are - 'oh, here's 18 Amazingly Hot, Super Skilled, Slavishly Loyal Women who are all the Ultimate Submissives, BUT NO SEX, NO SEX FOR YOU, NONONO YOU HAVE SEX YOU DIE HORRIBLE, PAINFUL DEATH but also the girls communicate by rubbing their breasts on your head and having random orgasms BUT YOU CANNOT TOUCH YOUR PEE PEE OR YOU WILL EXPLODE WITH DEATH'.

Like, surely the virgin shut-in otakus would want to see someone like them get all sorts of tail, yeah?

This is because Otaku are generally very awkward around the opposite sex. They like to fantasise about being with all the pretty girls, but if it actually happened they wouldn't know what to do with themselves or their partner(s). So such anime stop just short of where the target audience would become awkward, or make the protagonist awkward themselves. Plus the whole not wanting to outright be in the hentai genre, while still teasing the possibility.

 

[DrownedAmmet]

When I was twelve and Tenchi Muyo was on Toonami I loved that show for the simple reason that there were a lot of pretty girls to look at

Fast forward to my early twenties and I was throwing shade at a girl for liking a reverse harem and she told me that she liked them because guys were always dicks to her, and it was nice to fantasize about a bunch of guys just being nice to a girl

So yeah, maybe they're aimed at dweebs, but maybe the dweebs need something like that