Explain to me how concealed carry protects against a mugging

[Saltyk]

Mostly they're not, but if the mugger is using a knife, you have easy access to your gun AND you are ready to kill, then it is usefull.

Guns are illegal here but god knows if I were in a country like America where any twit can carry, I'd prefer to have a gun than not, if they come at me with intent to kill I'd rather have a slim chance than none.

Granted most muggers just want your money, rather than your life but things can go wrong.

THIS!

By the way, the great thing about America is that we have rights like the Second Amendment. You CAN carry a gun, but you don't have to. I, for one, do not. And more than a few people don't either. Most people I know actually don't own guns. It's not out of any hatred of guns, or because they think guns are dangerous, but because they don't feel a need for them. I am considering getting a concealed carry permit, though.

Concealed Carry laws operate on the principle of 'wolf in sheeps clothing'. Not everyone who can conceal carry does, but regions with easily obtained concealed carry liscences have lower rates of violent crime. Why? Because an attacker dosen't know who has a gun and who dosen't. They can't be sure that 60 year old grand mother dosen't have a .38 in her purse, and is willing to drop you if you try to mug her and her grand daughter. Assailants don't know wheither or not their target is really unarmed or not. The simple fact that even if one in a hundred people carries a gun, and is willing to use it, that complicates matters and has the effect of detering criminals.

Brawndo, I have to ask just what your state's laws are in regards to concealed carry, and wheither or not you have the Castle Doctrine in your state, and what the state laws are for use of lethal force. Those are all important in answering your question more specifically.

And THIS!

I'd also add that if you have a conceal carry license, if you see someone else being attacked, you can help them. I've seen plenty of cases of law abiding citizens preventing a crime with the use of a gun. In fact, a coworker tends to leave a NRA magazine at work every so often. There's one page in there that is all about people stooping robbers, murders, and even rapists with the use of their guns. Not always a concealed carry gun, but it's an interesting section nonetheless.

And, this may come as no surprise, but I support Castle Doctrines. Why should I have to run in my own home?

While i do think it works off the idea that it will scare muggers away, I often wonder if it doesn't make the muggers move to easier targets aka places where one cannot carry a gun in that city. See schools and the like, these place have big signs saying no guns.

Also if I was a mugger as my job in a gun heavy area I would shoot you then rob you, one more step less risk of you shooting me.

And that's where you would fail. If you're just going to mug someone, you just want them to feel threatened. You don't actually want to kill them. If you shot every person you mugged there's a chance that you would kill one of them. Even if you didn't, you would be an incredibly high priority for the police. They can't have a proven violent criminal on the streets. As a mugger, you would live or die based on anonymity. Or end up in jail.

On a final note, I'd just like to point out that areas with stronger guns laws tend to have more crime rather than less. Chicago has one of the highest crime rates in the nation and completely banned handguns, gun stores, and anything gun related in the city up until a recent Supreme Court ruling. The only way a gun ban would lessen crime, or at least gun crime, is if it was nation wide. And even then, I remain skeptical.

 

[martin's a madman]

*Give me your wallet punk ***** ass etc!*

'Alright man, I'm going to reach into my pocket and get it'

**reaches in Jacket pocket where weapon is hidden**

BANG BOMB BING DEAD!

Or... a wounding shot?

 

[The Night Shade]

I think that having concealed weaponry is a good idea because most muggers don't have guns also most muggers see a chance to steal and they take it they don't plan it

 

[Obrien Xp]

Lets take the 3 guys behind you scenario. Can you not place your hand under your jacket and hold the gun and turn the safety off? If those 3 guys tried anything and were far back enough you'd just spin around and point, they'd stop pretty quick unless they were armed.

The best defense against mugging is simple: Muggers won't join in on a mugging in progress. Simply always use the buddy system and take turns mugging each other if things feel strange.

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

The only way a gun ban would lessen crime, or at least gun crime, is if it was nation wide. And even then, I remain skeptical.

That still wouldn't help because the guns will come in from overseas if that ever happened. You see it where I live everyday. Guns are only allowed for hobby marksmen and hunters, and it's a clerical nightmare to get a permit to even own a gun of your own and it usually takes one to several years before you can get your permit.

But when it comes to violent crime involving guns the perps are most of the time armed with some unregistered and illegally imported hardware from eastern europe.

So a gun ban would pretty much have to be global to have the intended effect (which will never happen).

 

[bushwhacker2k]

It does seem like it could be useful on occasion, but I think his points are fairly valid, and it does seem like it'd just exacerbate the situation most of the time.

Guns are illegal here but god knows if I were in a country like America where any twit can carry, I'd prefer to have a gun than not, if they come at me with intent to kill I'd rather have a slim chance than none.

I'm not pointing fingers at you, but rather I'm just using your comment as an example...

Does anyone else feel like some people seem to be under the impression that America is gun-crazy and filled with violence? I have NEVER seen a gun outside of a police officer's holster and then I've only seen it recently with a police officer friend of my brother and before that in elementary school at an assembly (which was a nice while ago, I'm in college now). My point is, except possibly for certain areas, America is one of the safest countries in the world. WE ARE NOT GUN-CRAZY, please listen to me.

Thank you for reading, please go on.

 

[2fish]

While i do think it works off the idea that it will scare muggers away, I often wonder if it doesn't make the muggers move to easier targets aka places where one cannot carry a gun in that city. See schools and the like, these place have big signs saying no guns.

Also if I was a mugger as my job in a gun heavy area I would shoot you then rob you, one more step less risk of you shooting me.

And that's where you would fail. If you're just going to mug someone, you just want them to feel threatened. You don't actually want to kill them. If you shot every person you mugged there's a chance that you would kill one of them. Even if you didn't, you would be an incredibly high priority for the police. They can't have a proven violent criminal on the streets. As a mugger, you would live or die based on anonymity. Or end up in jail.

You don't think I would make a good mugger

Well you are probably right, it isn't my style.

In the end I don't think there is a good answer criminals are good at find loopholes and breaking the law. More guns gives people ability to defend themselves but also more guns for criminals. Fewer guns means less self defense for civilians but harder to get guns for criminals.

I prefer a middle ground people can get guns but must have a background check and take the idiot classes erm gun saftey so they don't end up shooting themselves or leaving the gun where their kid will shoot themself. Better safe than sorry right?

 

[yamitami]

When a mugger looks for a victim they do threat assessment. Older, smaller, skinny armed, these are things they look for so that they don't end up outmatched. However, if the muggers know that people in the area carry concealed handguns then the threat level on EVERYONE goes up a whole bunch and they'll be less likely to take the risk.

You know why you can carry handguns in Texas? When I was about 4 there was this Luby's that my mom took me and my brother to all the time. Luckily we weren't there when this psycho went in with a gun and started killing people. He just walked laps around the restaurant, shooting a person then on the next lap maybe shooting someone else at the same table. The second someone with a gun showed up (the cops) that guy died. If someone at the restaurant had a gun with them then a dozen-odd lives might have been saved.

And before everyone jumps up and yells that the psycho had a gun, this was the act that got Texas to pass conceal and carry so he didn't have that gun legally. Crooks and crackheads will always find a way to get a hold of illegal guns. The question is how many legal carriers are our there as a deterrent.

Please note that this only works if you know how to use the gun you're carrying. All those statistics about how having a gun in the house only makes burglary worse are because of people who buy the gun and then don't train with it.

 

[moretimethansense]

It does seem like it could be useful on occasion, but I think his points are fairly valid, and it does seem like it'd just exacerbate the situation most of the time.

Guns are illegal here but god knows if I were in a country like America where any twit can carry, I'd prefer to have a gun than not, if they come at me with intent to kill I'd rather have a slim chance than none.

I'm not pointing fingers at you, but rather I'm just using your comment as an example...

Does anyone else feel like some people seem to be under the impression that America is gun-crazy and filled with violence? I have NEVER seen a gun outside of a police officer's holster and then I've only seen it recently with a police officer friend of my brother and before that in elementary school at an assembly (which was a nice while ago, I'm in college now). My point is, except possibly for certain areas, America is one of the safest countries in the world. WE ARE NOT GUN-CRAZY, please listen to me.

Thank you for reading, please go on.

I never claimed that everybody in America is a gun crazy loon, but any twit CAN in fact buy a gun, here in England it takes a special kind of criminal to have one (one that pl;ans to use it), in America anyone can own a gun, anyone, here you might get mugged at knife point or even bare hands, wheras in america any low class filth can pull a gun on you if they want your money.

America is one of the safest countries in the world

That is a damn lie and you know it, check just how often someone is killed or injured by gunfire in your country, it really is absurdly high for a country that isn't an active warzone.

Now obviously most places aren't that bad in America, but there are parts where walking down the street wearing the wrong shirt WILL get you killed.

 

[Wicky_42]

3) Once the mugger takes your stuff and leaves the immediate area, you cannot follow him and legally shoot him. At this point, he is no longer a threat to your safety and you could be charged with second-degree murder.

Go for the knee caps! Quickly check if you can find the bullet, grab your shell-casing, run away and leave an anonymous 911 call from a phone box that a mugger's been injured. Oh, and hope you were wearing a cap and/or that there weren't any cameras around.

Sorted.

...yeah, totally haven't premeditated the scenarios of winding up in the states...
>.>

 

[captaincabbage]

I've never carried a pocket knife or anything, but I have been mugged, or should I say, they attempted to mug me.

For me the key is to both look shifty (hoodie, cargo pants, etc.) and to act like you've got something.
This guy he tried to mug me with a small steak knife (about 2.5 inches) and I put my hand in my hoodie pocket and threatened him back with a bigger knife, saying I had a butterfly knife in my pocket. I started to yell at him to draw attention to us and I made threratening gestures and he backed up and left. Then I called the cops and he was caught about 250 metres down the road.

Let it be said for the record that I'm only about 5'9" and about 65-70 kilos.

 

[swolf]

My roommate carries everywhere he goes except class, citing the high frequency of robberies and muggings of students around our college campus (we get emails about 4-5 incidents a month). But I don't see how carrying a gun in a holster under your jacket is going to help you:

1) You can't legally draw your gun on someone first unless they pose legitimate threat to you or a third party. For example, if my roommate sees three young men walking behind him at night on his way home, and he whips out his gun, he can get arrested and lose his CC license

2) The mugger has the element of surprise. So long as he has a firearm and pulls it on you first, you're screwed. The average person cannot outdraw someone who has the jump on them, and any idiot who thinks he's John Wayne will likely end up on the pavement bleeding out.

3) Once the mugger takes your stuff and leaves the immediate area, you cannot follow him and legally shoot him. At this point, he is no longer a threat to your safety and you could be charged with second-degree murder.

So at what point in this crime is a CCW going to help you? If anything, its more likely to be taken from you along with your wallet and other valuables. CCWs are useful in that they could stop a mass shooting attempt where the shooter has many targets, but I don't see how they are useful in common street robberies or carjackings, unless someone with experience otherwise can enlighten me.

Well let me just say that I've witnessed a rape in which the guy committing the crime was much bigger than I am. I attacked and got thrown across the room. We had to haul butt out of there. We called the police who did nothing more than question the individual. I choose to carry a concealed weapon partly because of that (when I get my gun soon). In the case of a mugging...no, I seriously doubt that I would draw any attention to my gun, much less draw it. Why? Because, like you said, I'd probably get killed in the process and/or they take my weapon.

On a side note: People in Florida (United States) are petitioning to change the law from concealed carry only to Open Carry (think wild west cowboy's hip holster). I don't understand why you would want to do that. It seems illogical to me as the use of the gun works best with the element of surprise and, if a mugger gets your gun, you've just armed a dangerous individual.

You know what should be made legal? Lightsabers. Isn't there a real version that can blind an assailant instantly?

There are small strobe flashlight-like devices which would blind an assailant though I would stick to pepper spray/mace (the particular type I use marks the assailant with an ultraviolet paint that takes serious scrubbing with soap to remove). I would recommend that, when selecting something for self-defense, you keep in mind that you will most likely have to use it within 15 feet, normally less.

 

[Chrinik]

Also if I was a mugger as my job in a gun heavy area I would shoot you then rob you, one more step less risk of you shooting me.

So you run the risk of getting life imprisonment or the DEATH penalty just because you wanted to rob someone?
Why do you think there ARE muggers, because you can just shoot everybody and run off with their stuff?
I´d rather get 5 years in jail for failing to steal a purse, then 25-life for making sure you don´t have a gun by shooting you first.

Well, I dunno how the laws in america are about personal defence, but in good old germany, you CAN stop a thief however you may like, just as long as you cought him in the act and DON´T kill him.
Otherwise you are put to trial and have to make clear that it was actually neccesary to kill him, or an acident like an old guy here, who was a hunter and had guns, and used one to kill one of 5 teenaged robbers who assaulted him in his garden, and pushed him back into his house, and then asked him for the combination of his safe.
You cannot carry a gun around tho, and knifes are also forbidden, so how may you stop an attacker that is way stronger and bigger then you?
Well that´s up to you. Mad Kung-Fu skills, crowbar to the shinns, good-ol-fisticuffs.
You have the right to hold him down until the police arrives, threat or no threat.
Even the CLEAR INTENTION that he wants to rob you ("Give me all your money!") gives you the right to stop him someway, so you can always draw the suprise on him by unpacking your secret military close-combat techniques.

 

[Gilhelmi]

You need to remember that there aren't police everywhere, if you pull a gun on some who is about to mug you, or in the process of doing so, who's he going to tell to get you arrested? "Hello, 911? Listen, some guy just pulled a gun on me as I tried to rob him."

I heard of that happening actually. The cch person (good guy) had to draw on a mugger who had a knife. The mugger ran (and wet himself, lol) and called the cops mistakingly believing that carrying concealed guns was less legal then mugging someone. Anyway while the mugger was calling the cops so was the good guy. Anyway long story short the cops believed the good guy, mugger got lawyers involved, courts sided with the good guy (an example of still having to go to court even if you did nothing wrong), and mugger still went to jail.

snip
And, this may come as no surprise, but I support Castle Doctrines. Why should I have to run in my own home?

snip

I too support Castle Doctrines. I say this because some may not know what that means.

"To a Man/Woman, his house is a Castle. He/she rules all he/she surveys in their Castle."

In short, I heard of a story out of Britain where a burglar was tripped by a home owner IN HIS OWN HOME and the robber sued and won. If you can escape YOUR OWN HOME THAT IS BEING ROBBED you legally have to. In most parts of America (with sensible (meaning follows the constitution) gun laws) , I can legally shoot a person breaking into my home, even if later they find out the robber was unarmed I still would not be in trouble for defending my Castle. In Kansas, I believe (need to look it up again), I can shoot trespassers under certain circumstances (not just for trespassing but like if they do have a weapon or make threats, again I have not looked up the statute since I moved home).

 

[MagicMouse]

I highly doubt that the person MUGGING YOU is going to go crying to the police all like "So I was mugging this guy, and he pulled out a GUN! I want to press charges immediately."

Also there is the deterrent factor. The mugger knows it is a possibility that he has a gun.

Some muggers the good ones use weapons, there-by posing a threat.

 

[Gilhelmi]

My roommate carries everywhere he goes except class, citing the high frequency of robberies and muggings of students around our college campus (we get emails about 4-5 incidents a month). But I don't see how carrying a gun in a holster under your jacket is going to help you:

1) You can't legally draw your gun on someone first unless they pose legitimate threat to you or a third party. For example, if my roommate sees three young men walking behind him at night on his way home, and he whips out his gun, he can get arrested and lose his CC license

2) The mugger has the element of surprise. So long as he has a firearm and pulls it on you first, you're screwed. The average person cannot outdraw someone who has the jump on them, and any idiot who thinks he's John Wayne will likely end up on the pavement bleeding out.

3) Once the mugger takes your stuff and leaves the immediate area, you cannot follow him and legally shoot him. At this point, he is no longer a threat to your safety and you could be charged with second-degree murder.

So at what point in this crime is a CCW going to help you? If anything, its more likely to be taken from you along with your wallet and other valuables. CCWs are useful in that they could stop a mass shooting attempt where the shooter has many targets, but I don't see how they are useful in common street robberies or carjackings, unless someone with experience otherwise can enlighten me.

I believe that your difficultly in understanding this subject stems from a lack of experience in the films Death Wish, The Punisher, and/or The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. Vigilante justice is not only fun and exciting, it's stimulating in all kinds of ways! Please review the suggested material and get back to me.

Please stop giving advice that could get people killed. You just look stupid for suggesting movie references in a serious subject of debate. Vigilante justice gets people killed and is not something to joke about.

 

[zfactor]

My roommate carries everywhere he goes except class, citing the high frequency of robberies and muggings of students around our college campus (we get emails about 4-5 incidents a month). But I don't see how carrying a gun in a holster under your jacket is going to help you:

1) You can't legally draw your gun on someone first unless they pose legitimate threat to you or a third party. For example, if my roommate sees three young men walking behind him at night on his way home, and he whips out his gun, he can get arrested and lose his CC license

2) The mugger has the element of surprise. So long as he has a firearm and pulls it on you first, you're screwed. The average person cannot outdraw someone who has the jump on them, and any idiot who thinks he's John Wayne will likely end up on the pavement bleeding out.

3) Once the mugger takes your stuff and leaves the immediate area, you cannot follow him and legally shoot him. At this point, he is no longer a threat to your safety and you could be charged with second-degree murder.

So at what point in this crime is a CCW going to help you? If anything, its more likely to be taken from you along with your wallet and other valuables. CCWs are useful in that they could stop a mass shooting attempt where the shooter has many targets, but I don't see how they are useful in common street robberies or carjackings, unless someone with experience otherwise can enlighten me.

1) True, if he pulls out his gun first, he will get in trouble. But then again, they are probably going to run away if that happens, because the muggers might not know that. And they aren't going to the police ("Yeah, we were going to mug this guy, but then he pulled out this gun and--" [thrown in jail])You can always "flash your piece," like pull back your coat to get your cellphone out and -oops- the muggers can see I have a gun now and they flee. Cops do the same thing with badges sometimes.

2)Yeah, but you can always grab the mugger's gun hand and force it away while pulling out your gun. Then shoot him if he doesn't drop it.

3)So don't let him leave the area. As soon as he turns to leave, pull out your gun and tell him to drop his stuff and/or weapon. Now you have the advantage. If he tries something, you can shoot him.

Or you can stay out of dark alleys at night.

 

[ultrachicken]

That's not the only reason to hide a firearm. People do it because they don't want everyone around them in public to be uncomfortable, and they don't want some idiot to try and wrestle the gun from you.

 

[Saltyk]

The only way a gun ban would lessen crime, or at least gun crime, is if it was nation wide. And even then, I remain skeptical.

That still wouldn't help because the guns will come in from overseas if that ever happened. You see it where I live everyday. Guns are only allowed for hobby marksmen and hunters, and it's a clerical nightmare to get a permit to even own a gun of your own and it usually takes one to several years before you can get your permit.

But when it comes to violent crime involving guns the perps are most of the time armed with some unregistered and illegally imported hardware from eastern europe.

So a gun ban would pretty much have to be global to have the intended effect (which will never happen).

I agree. Like I said. I would remain skeptical of a complete gun ban. I mentioned Chicago in my earlier post. They had a complete gun ban, and yet, criminals had guns. I think they had a very high murder rate and a lot of gun violence. Where do you think they were getting the guns? From places that they could buy guns. Illegally, in most cases, as it is a federal requirement that you have a background check before you purchase a gun.

Even if a gun ban was a world wide reality, you would still need to get rid of all the guns and ammunition. That would take decades before they were all destroyed. Even then, you'd have to ban governments from possessing firearms. Otherwise, there would still be a source or a reason for guns to exist.

And even after all that, the problem would still exist. We'd just be using swords or our fists.

While i do think it works off the idea that it will scare muggers away, I often wonder if it doesn't make the muggers move to easier targets aka places where one cannot carry a gun in that city. See schools and the like, these place have big signs saying no guns.

Also if I was a mugger as my job in a gun heavy area I would shoot you then rob you, one more step less risk of you shooting me.

And that's where you would fail. If you're just going to mug someone, you just want them to feel threatened. You don't actually want to kill them. If you shot every person you mugged there's a chance that you would kill one of them. Even if you didn't, you would be an incredibly high priority for the police. They can't have a proven violent criminal on the streets. As a mugger, you would live or die based on anonymity. Or end up in jail.

You don't think I would make a good mugger

Well you are probably right, it isn't my style.

In the end I don't think there is a good answer criminals are good at find loopholes and breaking the law. More guns gives people ability to defend themselves but also more guns for criminals. Fewer guns means less self defense for civilians but harder to get guns for criminals.

I prefer a middle ground people can get guns but must have a background check and take the idiot classes erm gun saftey so they don't end up shooting themselves or leaving the gun where their kid will shoot themself. Better safe than sorry right?

Sorry. I know you really wanted to be a mugger, but I just didn't see it happening.

Exactly. It is illegal for a criminal to own a gun. Even in states with concealed carry, a violent criminal can not buy or own a gun. So where do they get them? Loopholes. Crooked store owners, friends without a criminal record, steal one, the black market. Take your pick.

I'm for background checks and concealed carry permits. Gun safety courses should also be readily available for people to partake in, if not mandatory to purchase guns. We need a reasonable balance. Too bad extremists tend to control the argument.

Incidentally, I went out and shot a friends gun with him once. He was amazed at how careful I was with the gun. Even asked if I ever took a course on gun safety, to which I replied that it was all common sense.

Three basic rules to handling a gun.

1) Always keep the safety on unless you are firing it.
2) Never put your finger on the trigger unless you plan to shoot it.
3) Always keep it pointed at the ground, as though it could go off at any time.

 

[Azrael the Cat]

Concealed Carry laws operate on the principle of 'wolf in sheeps clothing'. Not everyone who can conceal carry does, but regions with easily obtained concealed carry liscences have lower rates of violent crime. Why? Because an attacker dosen't know who has a gun and who dosen't. They can't be sure that 60 year old grand mother dosen't have a .38 in her purse, and is willing to drop you if you try to mug her and her grand daughter. Assailants don't know wheither or not their target is really unarmed or not. The simple fact that even if one in a hundred people carries a gun, and is willing to use it, that complicates matters and has the effect of detering criminals.

Brawndo, I have to ask just what your state's laws are in regards to concealed carry, and wheither or not you have the Castle Doctrine in your state, and what the state laws are for use of lethal force. Those are all important in answering your question more specifically.

Out of curiousity, what do you think the reason is for the US having a murder rate (per head of population) around 90 times higher than in my country (Australia) and other first world nations? Personally, I'd probably go with gun availability (in Australia it's nigh impossible to get hold of a gun, so criminals just don't have them except for mafia/organised-crime, which is an insignificant killer compared to domestic violence anyway). But if you think that it's just because the US is an inherently degenerate culture, who am I to argue?