Explain to me the logic behind Metal Gear Solid's use of Robots armed with Nukes?

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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I have been thinking about this for a while now and never got a decent conclusion. In the Metal Gear Solid games, especially the ones that concerns METAL GEAR itself, I never really understood the logic of arming a Walking Robot vehicle with a Nuke makes any sense.

The sense the games try to make is that apparently with such a weapon, you can fire a nuke on any type of terrain and environment. To which I ask okay how? And wouldn't having a nuke pose a danger to the Metal Gear itself if it was damaged or malfunctioned?

The Shagohod in MGS 3 essentially using with the thrusting force of a rocket to essentially propel a Missle into the air, and somehow can accurately fire at the exact spot it was aimed at.

I have all the games and I am almost entrenched in MGS lore as is, and this part of the games I still don't get the logic behind the Metal Gears themselves.
 

CaitSeith

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The logic is that it sounds cool. Anything beyond that is overthinking it.
 

Casual Shinji

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It makes even less sense when you realize Rex in Metal Gear Solid 1 had the ability to launch a stealth nuke.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Casual Shinji said:
It makes even less sense when you realize Rex in Metal Gear Solid 1 had the ability to launch a stealth nuke.
How does that not make sense? Basically no one will realize a Nuke has been fired?
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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It's a Japanese game. Japan has a thing for giant robots. It doesn't make sense. It never did and it never will. It's just what they do.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Well, the idea is that they're a mobile launch site for nukes. They aren't the most realistic idea but it's pretty obvious why they'd make for a useful weapon. You don't need a big elaborate launch site. You equip that thing with a nuke, fire it from where ever you want and before the enemy even realizes where exactly it was fired from you've moved it somewhere else. Plus, even if you've already fired your nuclear warhead you still have a giant mech that's equipped with a machine gun and a missile launcher.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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undeadsuitor said:
It makes about as much sense as the arm of a dead guy being grafted onto an alive guy who was then possessed by the spirit of the dead guys arm
Nanomachines son.

Although how does that explain The Cobra Unit...
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Samtemdo8 said:
undeadsuitor said:
It makes about as much sense as the arm of a dead guy being grafted onto an alive guy who was then possessed by the spirit of the dead guys arm
Nanomachines son.

Although how does that explain The Cobra Unit...
You just have to accept that superpowers are a thing in the world of Metal Gear. Sure, sometimes they're the result of nanomachines or magical parasites but as far as we know Volgins electrical powers or Psycho Mantis' telekinesis are just things they can do.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Rex could fire nukes undetected on radar plus it didn't violate any nuclear treaties since it wasn't an ICMB missile. Thus, you could fire a nuke at a country and not get fired back on before your nuke even lands. Ray was just designed to take out Rex. Arsenal was designed to basically stop what has currently happened with regards to the internet and digital information; MGS2 basically predicted the future. The Shagohod makes not one bit of sense with regards to physics, getting a running start doesn't let you launch a nuke further.

undeadsuitor said:
It makes about as much sense as the arm of a dead guy being grafted onto an alive guy who was then possessed by the spirit of the dead guys arm
Ocelot wasn't possessed by Liquid FYI.
 

Paragon Fury

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MGS is a Kojima series and Kojima's games are basically an insane stream of thought of things he thinks might be cool held together by the tiniest semblance of "sense". Hell, the only reason they probably make any sense at all is because someone above him forced a bit of coherent plot and storytelling onto to him so that people would have something to follow.

It's why I'm worried about Death's Stranding - with no one to keep Kojima in line or make him have SOME sanity, I feel like the game has a high chance of basically being completely incoherent and a hot mess.
 

Something Amyss

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Adam Jensen said:
It's a Japanese game. Japan has a thing about giant robots. It doesn't make sense. It never did and it never will. It's just what they do.
More importantly, it's a Metal Gear Game. Kojima loves the weird and the over-the-top and I'm not even sure nukes on mechs is anywhere near the top of the weirndess list.

The entire series is batshit crazy and generally speaking you either love or hate that.

Plus, are you seriously going to tell me that Spider-Man summoning Leopardon makes no sense? Because come on!
 
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CaitSeith said:
The logic is that it sounds cool. Anything beyond that is overthinking it.
Basically, this.

PsychedelicDiamond said:
Well, the idea is that they're a mobile launch site for nukes. They aren't the most realistic idea but it's pretty obvious why they'd make for a useful weapon. You don't need a big elaborate launch site. You equip that thing with a nuke, fire it from where ever you want and before the enemy even realizes where exactly it was fired from you've moved it somewhere else. Plus, even if you've already fired your nuclear warhead you still have a giant mech that's equipped with a machine gun and a missile launcher.
Yeah, that's a REALLY great concept! If only we had something like that, but even smaller and more undetectable, that could go underwater to-

Wait, hang on, my invisible news headset is telling me that nuclear submarines (as in subs with nukes) have been a staple in the military since the cold war, and that they form the backbone of the "Mutually Assured Destruction" concept. Basically even if one nation nukes the other one to all hell, if they miss any of those hidden subs, the subs can proceed to revenge-nuke them long after the nuked country was destroyed.

Huh. How 'bout that. No need for a giant mobile mecha, we already have stealthy subs that can do what Metal Gear Rex can do, only more stealthy!

Again, Rule of Cool rules the MGS universe, regardless of how much or little sense it makes. ;) It's just something to accept if you're going to get into the series.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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PsychedelicDiamond said:
Samtemdo8 said:
undeadsuitor said:
It makes about as much sense as the arm of a dead guy being grafted onto an alive guy who was then possessed by the spirit of the dead guys arm
Nanomachines son.

Although how does that explain The Cobra Unit...
You just have to accept that superpowers are a thing in the world of Metal Gear. Sure, sometimes they're the result of nanomachines or magical parasites but as far as we know Volgins electrical powers or Psycho Mantis' telekinesis are just things they can do.
It's when Kojima tried to explain or retcon plot holes or weird occurrences that things collapsed. He really should have just left things unexplained.
 

Squilookle

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Adam Jensen said:
It's a Japanese game. Japan has a thing about giant robots. It doesn't make sense. It never did and it never will. It's just what they do.
Pretty much this. Japan has just as much of a hard-on for giant walking robots as the U.S. has one for superheroes.
 

WhiteFangofWhoa

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Rule of Cool aside...

Conventional nukes are launched from ICBM silos. Metal Gears and the Shagohod are silos on legs. With the right computer hardware, it would be possible to predict a launch trajectory and fire with a much wider and less predictable range than a stationary silo is capable of. Also harder to destroy with jets or your own nukes since they can just move out of the way.

I don't believe the nuclear stuff came into it until the Solid series. The original Metal Gear games just had it as an ultra-powerful walking tank with lots of varied weapons. No idea if it is actually possible to fire a nuke from a giant rail gun without its own propulsion trail. Probably not, but see above.
 

Dalisclock

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WhiteFangofWhoa said:
Rule of Cool aside...

Conventional nukes are launched from ICBM silos. Metal Gears and the Shagohod are silos on legs. With the right computer hardware, it would be possible to predict a launch trajectory and fire with a much wider and less predictable range than a stationary silo is capable of. Also harder to destroy with jets or your own nukes since they can just move out of the way.

I don't believe the nuclear stuff came into it until the Solid series. The original Metal Gear games just had it as an ultra-powerful walking tank with lots of varied weapons. No idea if it is actually possible to fire a nuke from a giant rail gun without its own propulsion trail. Probably not, but see above.
The original Metal Gear actually does mention "Nuclear Armed" during the one or two times it talks about the titular mecha. The big pros that Metal Gear has going for it are:

-In MGS3, Granin goes on about it being "The link between infantry and artillery" that can presumably traverse any terrain with the power of heavy artillery. The manual for MG2 details the idea of using heavy lift helicopters to transport it around if need be, and MGS3 actually showed this in action(as ridiculous as the idea of using like 6 Hinds is).

-Harder to track. It's about as trackable as a tank but that's a lot smaller and a lot more mobile then a missle silo.

-The Heavy armor and weapons means it can hold it's own in a fight(most artillery isn't particularly good at close range fighting, if not completely useless). Well, allegedly, since Snake took out 3 of the things on foot(that we know about) and Big Boss did just as well.

-Has a Crew of 1(except for the ones that were autonomous, like Peace Walker, ZEKE and snuffleupagus), which is a hell of a lot less then a submarine that requires like 100 specially trained crew.

-Presumably does not require special maintenance and repair facilities like a submarine does, though we never really saw what it needed as far as support goes. It probably has a much smaller logistics tail then a submarine does(Don't get me wrong, tanks are logistics and maintenance nightmares but submarines are much more specialized).

-You can hide it in an underground hanger when not deployed, which is shown plenty of times in the series. In fact, the first time a Metal Gear is shown in the series it's just sitting in its hanger which isn't terribly huge.

The big downside is that other then Rex, it's hard to see how any of them had much range. Pretty much all of them had basically a missle pod attached which limits the size of the missile and thus the effective range. Even the Shagohod wouldn't have had nearly the range it's claimed to have(even if you could get a tank to go that fast without flying apart or crashing into something, the boost in velocity wouldn't give it any noticeable range increase over a stationary launcher). Metal Gear would essentially be a heavily armored tactical nuclear platform.

Incidently, this type of thing does/did exist in real life. The term is Short ranged/theater ballastic missles, nuclear weapons designed with a range of about 100 miles or so. However, they're normally launched from what's essentially a military semi-truck because they're still pretty big. Almost none of the metal gears shown in the games(except maybe Peace Walker, because Peace Walker was fucking huge) look like they carry a big enough missle to actually reach that far. REX, due to the rail gun, is probably the exception, because it presumably doesn't need a missle to deliver the warhead across vast distances. THe rest of the the metal gears look like they'd pretty much be able to fire a nuke a couple of miles and that would be it.

And of course, RAY doesn't count due to being a hunter-killer of Metal Gears, not a nuclear weapons platform and Arsenal Gear is a damn submarine (I'm surprised the US Navy didn't just name it the USS Metal Gear).

In real life nobody actually has been able to build a decent bipedal vehicle that's worth the money and trouble to do so. Getting the legs to work properly so the thing can carry it's own weight is a major issue(Peace Walker points out that Huey was the one who solved that problem, which is why he's essentially the one who built it, as opposed to the Russian Officer in Snake Eater who came up with the concept) and there's also the matter of being able to power it. And other concerns such as the tall profile which makes it a larger target.

Of course, the real explanation is that it's Japanese, and the Japanese seem to be obsessed with giant robots. That and Kojima finds it a good shorthand to discuss his feelings on nuclear proliferation/deterrence when he's not being batshit insane.
 

Casual Shinji

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Samtemdo8 said:
Casual Shinji said:
It makes even less sense when you realize Rex in Metal Gear Solid 1 had the ability to launch a stealth nuke.
How does that not make sense? Basically no one will realize a Nuke has been fired?
Exactly, so why even have a robot to make it mobile? The whole benefit to having a moving nuclear launcher is so you can fire it from any location, but if the missle can't be tracked by radar anyway it doesn't matter where you launch it from.