Extra Credits: No Redeeming Value

[Furrama]

Are you asking too much of a video game? Yes. Yes you are. This article was overthinking taken to an absurd, Ted Mosby-esque level. God of War is all about the extreme excess of killing everything in Greek mythology, in one case with a bridge. I just don't feel it's a game that was meant to stand up to analysis as a literary work, nor should it be judged by those standards.

Nothing gets better unless it is held to higher standards. That was his and my point. Video gaming doesn't have to be a pointless time waister.

I don't expect AC/DC to be Beethoven's fifth and I don't expect God of War to be Ico. It works as what it is, not as an intellectual piece.

Yes, but it could have been better. Everything could have been better than what it is, but they often stop short for whatever reason. NOTHING IS ABOVE CRITICISM. You do know that people argue about books and movies and hold them to higher expectations sometimes. Sometimes you see a glimmer of genius in something and then feel let down when it falls apart. There is nothing wrong with wanting more out of anything in life.

God of War could have been more than about blood and death. Blood and death was at first just a vehicle, but it soon became the driving force. When that happened it lost some appeal to most people who want more than to get up in the morning and death death death death death lunch death death death afternoon tea death death death quick shower death death death....

 

[agrandstudent]

Are you asking too much of a video game? Yes. Yes you are. This article was overthinking taken to an absurd, Ted Mosby-esque level. God of War is all about the extreme excess of killing everything in Greek mythology, in one case with a bridge. I just don't feel it's a game that was meant to stand up to analysis as a literary work, nor should it be judged by those standards.

You, and everyone that has said similar things has to try and understand where Daniel is coming from. He believes that games are a new growing form of art and as such they should be judged and analysed for their artistic value. How much there is in a specific game or other singular piece of art is always up for debate, but this does not mean that because you feel that this piece of art has not artistic value it should be exempt from analysis.

God of war is currently one of the few popular mainstream games that even attempted to have some artistic value . Because of that an analysis of it would be able to demonstrate to the widest possible audience that there is a potential for video game to tell meaningful artistic stories.

 

[Vuirneen]

I love this series. Looking forward to next week.

 

[neuromantic]

Hey, I just clicked this video to see what it was all about and I'm sure I saw one of your videos on Youtube forever ago... Really glad to see you made it to the Escapist, I really like the way your videos are set up.

And the theme music at the end put a smile on my face, liked it so much I stayed all the way to the end of the credits, and thats not something I do very often. So kudos to your music guy, whomever he (or she) may be.

 

[Gerkuman]

While I agree with most of this review, the last bit frustrated me. That is, where the writers once again imply that linearity in the storyline of games is bad. I'll admit, maybe I'm just one of those people who is behind the times, but I've never been against a game just because I'm not given the choice to do things. Most of my favourite series' are linear. (Ace Attorney topping the pile in this case.)

I'm not saying that sandbox games are bad, far from it. I enjoyed Fallout 3, and many others. I just don't believe that we should stop making games with linear stories.

 

[Disthron]

Wait, so in some cases in Greek Tragedy they didn't do anything wrong. Doesn't that mean that there getting blamed for stuff they didn't do? How is that getting judged by your actions?

It's been quite a few years since I played GoW1 but wasn't is set up so that Kratos only couldn't recognise his family? So when he walked into that house he saw an unknown woman and child and slaughtered them. So basically if he hadn't of been such a worthless asshole he wouldn't have killed his family, who apparently didn't wont him any way because, you know, he was a psycho.

Maybe it's because I'm just not a fan of Greek Tragedy but I quit the game in discust after the cut-scene where you find out what happened to Kratoses family. It wasn't that it was that shocking, it didn't seem out of character or anything,it was just the straw that broke the camels back.

The latter games, or at least what I heard about them, basically just proved what I'd thought about the character all along. He's an evil doosh. At least that's what I thought, even back when there was only one of them his "redemption" didn't ring true to me.

Story is a big part of what I look for in a game, I've played through games that were poorly designed and sometimes almost broken just because I wonted to see what happens. The GoW games are the other extream oposit of this. I quit the game because I was forced to play a character I didn't wont to be.

Anyway, I really love your videos, I've been following them for a while now and it's nice to see that I'm not the only one who thinks this way about the character, at least in part anyway.

Keep up the grate work.
~Disthron

 

[bowserboy26578]

The way i see it, and someone else might have gone there, the first game kind of kept Kratos sane. He had a goal. Hope was there for a future without the memories of his past. But when he found out he was being lied to again, he snapped. True psychosis would envelope him. He would become pointlessly brutal because he doesn't care. He has no hope. He has seen the abyss and is going to throw as many things into it as he can since he no longer can. When Zeus attacks him, he finds goal. He has purpose again. Remember that whole "Death cannot hold one with Purpose thing" athena said. That's why he could escape. Gaia presented herself and offered redemption to him... again. But now he's not holding back. He feels he's all but lost the capacity for redemption. He's going to end everything. But when he finds Pandora, a bit of humanity shines through. He remembers his daughter. He begins to feel as if maybe everything he's doing is really the best way. Remember that before he found he, Kratos was willing to throw Pandora into the flame himself. But he tries to stop her, but must make the necisary sacrifice. The last of his rage is let out on Zeus at the very end. He's completed his quest, he has been shown that he can be redeemed, he simply must forgive himself. When he does, he realizes the full impact of his actions. Knowing he can't live with himself, or the possibility that Athena would take over, enacting a new Olympus basically, he desides the only course of action is to give mankind what he has deprived them of, the hope to live on. Without it, Athena cannot control them. With it, mankind will find a way to survive. They will look to the future.

That's very over thought, and probably not the writers intentions, but I like the idea. It seems a very strong Greek tragedy to me.

 

[bowserboy26578]

kratos is still the worst video game protangnist....he killed Hades.....FLIPPIN HADES and all he was trying to do was to put kratos in his place...like did no God or Goddess think "Hey he killed Aries should we do something about it for say uhhh killing him all at once?"

I don't know if you played the game or not, but it isn't a secret that the gods wanted Ares dead. In fact, they all gave him powers to do so, Including Hades.

 

[GrandMoffWow]

I don't know if this has been said or not but, on the subject of you going into first person mode at the end, maybe it is pointing out that by purchasing/playing/finishing the game you have become just like Kratos, in your words "An Evil Git with no redeeming qualities", who just kills because its fun, maybe it is a comment on the players themselves.

 

[CRoone]

Another awesome video. I've been following your series ever since the YouTube days, and I'm not at all surprised that The Escapist came and invited you aboard.

As for the video, well...let me just say that I agree whole-heartedly with your summation of the issue. I'd say more, like how the issue is actually quite a personal thorn in my side, but I won't do so (I typed it out three times and consistently sounded like a bit of a whiner, to be honest). Let's just say, you stated what a lot of we Game-Playing-Folk had been thinking, and I thank you for that.

 

[boholikeu]

I don't know if this has been said or not but, on the subject of you going into first person mode at the end, maybe it is pointing out that by purchasing/playing/finishing the game you have become just like Kratos, in your words "An Evil Git with no redeeming qualities", who just kills because its fun, maybe it is a comment on the players themselves.

This is how I saw it as well, and I also thought the "moment of remorse" was supposed to come from the player after they realize they have literally destroyed everything in the game for their own amusement.

Having said that though, I still don't think the first person sequence really added all that much in the grand scheme of things. Even if the developers did intend to make the above statement, it certainly didn't elevate their game above the rest of the ultra-violent schlock in that genre.

 

[ineedscissors]

btw the last scene in the game was not kratos beating zeus to death, but kratos sacrificing himself to release the power of hope to all mankind in order to stop the cycle of gods controlling and torturing humans. perhaps this scene was ignored in order to further their point. tsk, tsk.

 

[Taneer]

Goddammit, Extra Punctuation, Experienced Points, and Extra Credits?! I'm getting all confused now!

 

[MNM556]

UMMMMMM, I thought the first game was epic good story telling fun to play only complaint to little boss fights. The Second one was even epicer, but the story wasn't as good. The third I've only partly played, but i know how it ends KRTAOS KILLS HIMSELF which i understand as he finally realizes no amount of revenge will give him any remorse for what he did to his family. i highly disagree that the third games story sucked it just taught you no amount of revenge can save you.

 

[MNM556]

Yeah they kinda hid that last part in the review which ticked my off a bit

 

[Thedarkness77]

good video wish they talked about the last 5 minutes were kratos kills himself.

 

[rabidkanid]

Wow...people play God of War for the storytelling...Seriously?

In the first one, YES!!!

 

[narwhalman218]

I have recently gotten a new appreciation for this video. I just started high school and in English we are currently reading Oedipus Rex. As I write this I am doing homework which this video actually helped me realize how to do it. For instance, Oedipus's denial is similar to that of Kratos. It is true that they are both Greek tragedies, but I think that extra credits helped me better grasp what makes a Greek tragedy. So to Daniel Floyd, Thank you, you may have helped me get an A on a future essay.

 

[SMKears]

You make a good point there. I guess that - at the end of GOW 3 - they were aiming for some lasting and effective wag of the finger that you, as the gamer, would rather have a violent ending to it all, thereby becoming no better than Kratos himself (hence the first-person), but it really didn't take at all now, did it? (I mean, by that point, it wasn't just avenging for Kratos, it was simply slautering) You're totally right that they missed the whole character development aspect they captured in the first game, because, if I'm right about what they were trying to do, they missed the point completely. Sure, if they hadn't made him learn anything in the end of the first game, and Kratos was just this constant ball of hate and gore that we adore in most senses, it could possibly work. Just have a total badass getting even more badass as you go along, but then the games wouldn't have the same affect, would they? So, maybe if they had worked in an ending where Kratos is so hardened and numb that you ultimately commit succide by brutally killing your own avatar (I'm not sure how it'd work, but I bet if they really tried, they could figure something out), it might have some sort of relevence to the moral of the first game. (This is complete speculation. I'm a total noob, and I haven't played nearly enough to actuallt justify my findings, so don't hold me accountable if/when you find a huge flaw in my logic. Sorry, I'm just giving an outside perspective for you.)

That isn't to say that the games aren't epic, because from what I've seen ... DAMN! THAT IS BEYOND EPIC!

 

[Claudandis]

I watched this and thought that it seemed to miss a bigger point though about the series. While I beat GoW 1 and agree that it does have all the requirements of a Greek tradgedy I would disagree that 2 and 3 have no redemming value whatsoever. Consider that around the time 3 was out and being made, an updated movie version of Clash of the Titans was made and the point both of this game and movie made was that Zeus and the others were corrupt and that it was up to mortals to show they could be strong too.
On the surface this might be a very good message, "Don't think your lives are a waste of time, stand up and make your point heard to all." However as you like to point out on Extra Credits, there is often a deeper more subtle meaning behind what may be the most obvious message in the world. In this case the deeper message seem to be that "gods" read as "people in positions of authority" cannot be trusted for an extended period of time as they will ultimately become corrupted by their power. To prove my point look at Zeus in GoW 1, wise, tough but ultimately fair....now contrast this with the Zeus from GoW 2 a corrupt ruler who seeks nothing but ultimate power and anyone who dares to challenge that power such as Kratos must be stopped at all costs.
Take this same sentiment with what is occuring in the United States today with the infamous "TEA Party" and their "Throw the incumbents out!" rhetoric. Their belief is just as with "Kratos" and "Zeues" i.e Power ultimately corrupts and the only way to restore balance is to destroy the old ways and start anew. While the people do so with voting and protest Kratos used his power, rage, and unstoppable hatred to accomplish his goals. In destroying the Greek gods Kratos in effect did destory the world that they had created and left the world in total chaos. This left him as the only "god" in existance, so he kills himself because he doesn't want to be a power mad, corrupted god as Zeus and the others were. His death however gives control to humanity to dtermine their ultimate fate, and not being the toys of an all powerful elite class.
To summarize: Power corrupts in the long run and ultimately that is what this series was simply one more voice shouting this point. While it was a textbook Greek Tradgedy the second and third games did have value just not the requisite tragic story or "Good guys win, bad guys lose" story.