Extra Credits: No Redeeming Value

bowserboy26578

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Oct 23, 2008
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The way i see it, and someone else might have gone there, the first game kind of kept Kratos sane. He had a goal. Hope was there for a future without the memories of his past. But when he found out he was being lied to again, he snapped. True psychosis would envelope him. He would become pointlessly brutal because he doesn't care. He has no hope. He has seen the abyss and is going to throw as many things into it as he can since he no longer can. When Zeus attacks him, he finds goal. He has purpose again. Remember that whole "Death cannot hold one with Purpose thing" athena said. That's why he could escape. Gaia presented herself and offered redemption to him... again. But now he's not holding back. He feels he's all but lost the capacity for redemption. He's going to end everything. But when he finds Pandora, a bit of humanity shines through. He remembers his daughter. He begins to feel as if maybe everything he's doing is really the best way. Remember that before he found he, Kratos was willing to throw Pandora into the flame himself. But he tries to stop her, but must make the necisary sacrifice. The last of his rage is let out on Zeus at the very end. He's completed his quest, he has been shown that he can be redeemed, he simply must forgive himself. When he does, he realizes the full impact of his actions. Knowing he can't live with himself, or the possibility that Athena would take over, enacting a new Olympus basically, he desides the only course of action is to give mankind what he has deprived them of, the hope to live on. Without it, Athena cannot control them. With it, mankind will find a way to survive. They will look to the future.

That's very over thought, and probably not the writers intentions, but I like the idea. It seems a very strong Greek tragedy to me.
 

bowserboy26578

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Skullkid4187 said:
kratos is still the worst video game protangnist....he killed Hades.....FLIPPIN HADES and all he was trying to do was to put kratos in his place...like did no God or Goddess think "Hey he killed Aries should we do something about it for say uhhh killing him all at once?"
I don't know if you played the game or not, but it isn't a secret that the gods wanted Ares dead. In fact, they all gave him powers to do so, Including Hades.
 

GrandMoffWow

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Mar 3, 2010
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I don't know if this has been said or not but, on the subject of you going into first person mode at the end, maybe it is pointing out that by purchasing/playing/finishing the game you have become just like Kratos, in your words "An Evil Git with no redeeming qualities", who just kills because its fun, maybe it is a comment on the players themselves.
 

CRoone

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Another awesome video. I've been following your series ever since the YouTube days, and I'm not at all surprised that The Escapist came and invited you aboard.

As for the video, well...let me just say that I agree whole-heartedly with your summation of the issue. I'd say more, like how the issue is actually quite a personal thorn in my side, but I won't do so (I typed it out three times and consistently sounded like a bit of a whiner, to be honest). Let's just say, you stated what a lot of we Game-Playing-Folk had been thinking, and I thank you for that.
 

boholikeu

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GrandMoffWow said:
I don't know if this has been said or not but, on the subject of you going into first person mode at the end, maybe it is pointing out that by purchasing/playing/finishing the game you have become just like Kratos, in your words "An Evil Git with no redeeming qualities", who just kills because its fun, maybe it is a comment on the players themselves.
This is how I saw it as well, and I also thought the "moment of remorse" was supposed to come from the player after they realize they have literally destroyed everything in the game for their own amusement.

Having said that though, I still don't think the first person sequence really added all that much in the grand scheme of things. Even if the developers did intend to make the above statement, it certainly didn't elevate their game above the rest of the ultra-violent schlock in that genre.
 

ineedscissors

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Oct 24, 2009
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btw the last scene in the game was not kratos beating zeus to death, but kratos sacrificing himself to release the power of hope to all mankind in order to stop the cycle of gods controlling and torturing humans. perhaps this scene was ignored in order to further their point. tsk, tsk.
 

Taneer

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Sep 1, 2008
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Goddammit, Extra Punctuation, Experienced Points, and Extra Credits?! I'm getting all confused now!
 

MNM556

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Aug 11, 2010
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UMMMMMM, I thought the first game was epic good story telling fun to play only complaint to little boss fights. The Second one was even epicer, but the story wasn't as good. The third I've only partly played, but i know how it ends KRTAOS KILLS HIMSELF which i understand as he finally realizes no amount of revenge will give him any remorse for what he did to his family. i highly disagree that the third games story sucked it just taught you no amount of revenge can save you.
 

narwhalman218

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I have recently gotten a new appreciation for this video. I just started high school and in English we are currently reading Oedipus Rex. As I write this I am doing homework which this video actually helped me realize how to do it. For instance, Oedipus's denial is similar to that of Kratos. It is true that they are both Greek tragedies, but I think that extra credits helped me better grasp what makes a Greek tragedy. So to Daniel Floyd, Thank you, you may have helped me get an A on a future essay.
 

SMKears

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Nov 20, 2010
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You make a good point there. I guess that - at the end of GOW 3 - they were aiming for some lasting and effective wag of the finger that you, as the gamer, would rather have a violent ending to it all, thereby becoming no better than Kratos himself (hence the first-person), but it really didn't take at all now, did it? (I mean, by that point, it wasn't just avenging for Kratos, it was simply slautering) You're totally right that they missed the whole character development aspect they captured in the first game, because, if I'm right about what they were trying to do, they missed the point completely. Sure, if they hadn't made him learn anything in the end of the first game, and Kratos was just this constant ball of hate and gore that we adore in most senses, it could possibly work. Just have a total badass getting even more badass as you go along, but then the games wouldn't have the same affect, would they? So, maybe if they had worked in an ending where Kratos is so hardened and numb that you ultimately commit succide by brutally killing your own avatar (I'm not sure how it'd work, but I bet if they really tried, they could figure something out), it might have some sort of relevence to the moral of the first game. (This is complete speculation. I'm a total noob, and I haven't played nearly enough to actuallt justify my findings, so don't hold me accountable if/when you find a huge flaw in my logic. Sorry, I'm just giving an outside perspective for you.)

That isn't to say that the games aren't epic, because from what I've seen ... DAMN! THAT IS BEYOND EPIC!
 

Claudandis

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Nov 23, 2010
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I watched this and thought that it seemed to miss a bigger point though about the series. While I beat GoW 1 and agree that it does have all the requirements of a Greek tradgedy I would disagree that 2 and 3 have no redemming value whatsoever. Consider that around the time 3 was out and being made, an updated movie version of Clash of the Titans was made and the point both of this game and movie made was that Zeus and the others were corrupt and that it was up to mortals to show they could be strong too.
On the surface this might be a very good message, "Don't think your lives are a waste of time, stand up and make your point heard to all." However as you like to point out on Extra Credits, there is often a deeper more subtle meaning behind what may be the most obvious message in the world. In this case the deeper message seem to be that "gods" read as "people in positions of authority" cannot be trusted for an extended period of time as they will ultimately become corrupted by their power. To prove my point look at Zeus in GoW 1, wise, tough but ultimately fair....now contrast this with the Zeus from GoW 2 a corrupt ruler who seeks nothing but ultimate power and anyone who dares to challenge that power such as Kratos must be stopped at all costs.
Take this same sentiment with what is occuring in the United States today with the infamous "TEA Party" and their "Throw the incumbents out!" rhetoric. Their belief is just as with "Kratos" and "Zeues" i.e Power ultimately corrupts and the only way to restore balance is to destroy the old ways and start anew. While the people do so with voting and protest Kratos used his power, rage, and unstoppable hatred to accomplish his goals. In destroying the Greek gods Kratos in effect did destory the world that they had created and left the world in total chaos. This left him as the only "god" in existance, so he kills himself because he doesn't want to be a power mad, corrupted god as Zeus and the others were. His death however gives control to humanity to dtermine their ultimate fate, and not being the toys of an all powerful elite class.
To summarize: Power corrupts in the long run and ultimately that is what this series was simply one more voice shouting this point. While it was a textbook Greek Tradgedy the second and third games did have value just not the requisite tragic story or "Good guys win, bad guys lose" story.
 

Cptn_Squishy

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Mar 4, 2009
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I criticized the characterization of Kratos in GoW3 in this forum before Yahtzee and Extra Credits did and I got CRUSHED for it. The thread I created regarding the fact that Kratos is nothing more than a jerk and a bully ended up getting removed by the site.

Course, as soon as Yahtzee said pretty much the same thing, everybody seemed to be in complete agreement. I'm just glad I borrowed GoW2 and watched GoW3 on YouTube rather than actually buying them. GoW1 is still great though.
 

Ixal

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Mar 19, 2008
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And now Kratos appears on Mortal Kombat.
What a sellout.

In GoW 1 the violence was part of Kratos characterization. In GoW 2 and 3 it was the only selling point and completely mindless.
But as long as the market is dominated by twitch kiddies who care only for violence, graphics and gore this will happen again and again.

I love Extra Credit, but I just think that the greatest roadblock for games becoming art are not the games itself but the consumers who mostly demand cheap and mindless slaughter with spectacular graphics and no form of thinking required.
 

Sindre1

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Nov 8, 2008
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Finally I get to watch this video.
When it came out I had not played any of them, now I have played them all.
Fits perfectly together if you ask me.
But I agree that the first-person thing was a bit pointless.
 

The Harkinator

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Jun 2, 2010
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Another feature of the character of Kratos is his pride. He refuses to let any foe best him in combat. When Kratos kills his family he sets in motion events that lead to him committing suicide at the end of the game. What he would let no enemy do to him he does himself. Kratos may have always planned to end his life after exacting his revenge. The pride makes Kratos a bezerker type warrior, he will not rest nor accept death and defeat until all who stand in the way of revenge and redemption that he seeks have died. Kratos will not allow himself to be killed by others until he has settled his issues.

A greek tragedy is a brilliant thing in no small part to the complexity of the character. His rise and fall personify him and give him goals and motivations. In GOW1 this is Kratos. In GOW2 Kratos is overconfident and immature now he has ascended to godhood. He is punished and yet again swears revenge, only this time the warnings were clear that if he didn't stop he would be punished. Kratos must have known that his punishment would be exile from Olympus or otherwise death as a rogue god would cause too much trouble.

In GOW3 Kratos seems so consumed by revenge on Zeus that he kills everything he can reach. Kratos tears anything (or anyone) in his way into pieces and is not seeking redemption, rather he seems to have no care for the consequences of his actions (the consequences of pledging his life or killing his family define him in the GOW series) and goes far past 'the point of no return' into the realm of 'you don't actually care what you do anymore do you?'.

So all in all Kratos is a character who degenerates into a speaking blender for gods to die in