Extra Punctuation: Action Is Not Finisher Porn

beefpelican

New member
Apr 15, 2009
374
0
0
Moffman said:
I'd say Ninja Gaiden II also has a very good fast paced combat, sure it's hard as hell but the system is very fast paced because the finishing moves happen in a flash, nice and quick, you know, like a ninja should be... I guess it gets its porn aspects in in other ways though :p
This goes for all of the Ninja Gaidens that I've played. I'm fine with taking two seconds to let Ryu finish someone off because he doesn't waffle about or ask me to rapidly press A while he's doing it. Also, those brief moments of invulnerability were just about the only pause you got in that game.
Jamienra said:
As for Batman: AA having no finishers. The most annoying thing about it was waiting for a thug to stand up or walk over and slowly punch him in the face while other thugs waited around you.
This was an issue in Assassin's Creed, especially the first one, but I never really found it to be an issue in Batman. He can cover a lot of ground between moves, so I generally found that if someone was on the ground I could jump to them and do the takedown before they got back up.
 

Undeadpool

New member
Aug 17, 2009
209
0
0
I don't get it, most of the ultras/supers in SSFIV are about the same length (look at Zangief or Hakan), yet MK gets dumped on for having "long" X-rays that are 100% optional? And also incredibly tactically useful? Yeah, they're a little long, but is it really THAT different?
 

GreenII

New member
May 19, 2011
4
0
0
To be fair, none of these games require you to use fancy finishing moves.

In MK for example, you can use your accumulated energy to launch several enhanced special attacks, or break an opponents combo. Either way the X-ray moves should definitely take longer to charge and be more difficult to pull off, at least this way players wouldn't be seeing the same overlong animation two or three times per fight.

Finishing moves in GOW style games are a much bigger problem, If you don't execute them, you are often missing out on things like health and experience.
 

Sephychu

New member
Dec 13, 2009
1,698
0
0
I'd agree, except I really liked the finishers in Bayonetta, I thought they fit really well. Like has been mentioned, they give a break in an otherwise unrelentingly frantic game, like a smart bomb would in a space shooter.
Plus, they built to a head in every level, culminating with a huge demon summon which ate, punched, ate or played volleyball with the level boss. Then it happened again at the end, which was really cool.
 

Sterling|D-Reaver

New member
Jun 14, 2010
68
0
0
I agree with you on this one for sure, but fighting games have never been my thing. Now that I think about there are other games that do this sort of thing in one way or another, gameplay should not be of the 'rinse and repeat' type. It's like the game is your mom taping you on the should to remind you that your still just playing a game and NOT having the epic adventure of your life!
 

ChillShark

New member
Oct 13, 2010
67
0
0
Speaking of intervening........ I always wondered why didn't the good guys from DBZ just break the bad guy's neck while he was transforming instead of waiting for him to complete and be even more powerful.
 

Zetsubou^-^

New member
Mar 1, 2011
85
0
0
i think one where the finisher was really good was the assassin's creed series. it let you finish an enemy that would have taken several more hits to kill, and it was done by either overpowering the guy til you got the opportunity, or by successfully countering.

maybe that's not a good "finisher" though, cause i had the habit of opening with that, and had a particularly fun time seeing how many i could kill before they raise their guard. i found it hilarious when i killed like 7-8 and avoided a fight completely in ass creed 2(early in the game too). they let the AI slip a bit. in the first one, you could get off 3-4 max before they guarded, and the hidden blade couldn't be used offensively at all (i like it though. i consider the sword an option now instead of a requirement)

for god of war im torn. its finishers do get annoying, but its the only way to get minotaurs and gorgons to drop health and mana. i actually prefer the enemies with the finishers, because its a way to get them out of the way instead of having to pummel each and every one to 0 life.
 

Evill_Bob

New member
Nov 18, 2009
85
0
0
This is why I'm really getting into fighting games like Overgrowth or ZenoClash. Sure one isn't anywhere near done and the other is a little unpolished (and downright weird, but that's half the charm right?) but they keep the action flowing. Plus you spend more time deciding what to do in an ever changing tactical situation instead of how to do a specific five button combo or a 3 button combo repeated over and over again until you win (Hadoken!).
 

Moeez

New member
May 28, 2009
603
0
0
The finishers act as a breather to the gameplay loop, so you can then re-assess the combat situation and repeat. Seems like Ben is not against their idea, just their duration.

I agree on the duration being short, but I also appreciate when developers bother putting enough different animations that they hardly repeat. Making them hard to do, like having a close-quarters finisher in a FPS (The Darkness [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xtdRORyvBo]) where you can be fired upon if you're too close, is a smart idea.
 

theultimateend

New member
Nov 1, 2007
3,621
0
0
Fullmetalfox said:
WoW! you are right! I just checked youtube and Ryu's ultra is 6 seconds long! I've done it hundreds of times and it never felt that long. Anyway, I haven't played the new MK yet so I dunno how long most of them are but Yahtzee makes it sound like they take an eternity. The ones I saw on youtube where 3 to 5 secs long, that's not too bad. I think he just finds it annoying because he doesn't like fighting games.

VATS in Fallout 3 gets really old really fast tough.
Honestly they go by really fast. The average X-Ray takes about as long as the same amount of hits would.

I've never seen a fight go longer because I used them.

It's just not a game that was marketed towards him. I'm sure someone will make a fluid fighting game, then people will abuse the mechanics and the game will die. But at least it'll have been done?

(Soul Calibur can kind of do it, fun to watch a buddy play nightmare and take you from 100% to 0% life before his combo is over, unless you know the super awesome counter combos...)

ChillShark said:
Speaking of intervening........ I always wondered why didn't the good guys from DBZ just break the bad guy's neck while he was transforming instead of waiting for him to complete and be even more powerful.
The vast majority of the fighters were curious of just whether or not they could actually defeat their opponent.

Effectively it was many seasons of the saying "Curiosity killed the Cat". This is also why MOST of the time they person waiting is watching on with some level of awe.
 

SFR

New member
Mar 26, 2009
322
0
0
Most finishers like those in Bayonette are used as visual rewards. It is true that they could mix up more often, but doing animations like that take a lot of time. I don't think the torture attacks take long enough to get boring, though. Plus you are at least actively doing something, unlike MK's X-ray moves.

Still, many times these moves are used as breathing room, typically with a bit of invulnerability to just kick back and watch something cool. Action Fatigue is a thing!
 

Captain_M

New member
Mar 1, 2011
31
0
0
I get what Yahtzee's trying to say here, but i wouldn't have used Arkham Asylum as an example. Arkham has several instances where the camera slows down while Batman deals the finishing blow to a bunch of bad guys. It's usually not too annoying, but there are lots of instances where I beat the last guy in the room by grabbing him with a silent takedown attack, and the camera slows down to show Batman.....slowly smother a guy and then set him quietly down on the ground for sleepytime.
 

Beautiful End

New member
Feb 15, 2011
1,755
0
0
My exact thoughts when I played MK for the first time. I remember I yelled "OW! Right in the suckerbag!" the first time I saw a Finisher move. I also twitched a little whenever I saw an X Ray move. But after playing a couple of hours, I'd just say "Oh, man..." or "Huh." or just stare. It certainly lost its touch after a while. Perhaps if the new MK was strictly an arcade game, where you have to waste a couple of dollars to make it all the way to the end, then yeah. It might remain flashy for a while. But when you won the game and you're able to play it as many times as you want, then...no. Repetition is not good.

Now, it's not like I'm in love with MvC. Heck, I haven't played it in a while. But the action is fast paced! You cannot look away for a minute or else you might die. MK, though, will let you take your eyes off the screen for a second.
As a side note, this is why I don't like MOST 3D fighting games like MK. When you focus on making the characters look realistic, they cannot move as fast as, let's say, MvC, where in 5 seconds, your character can extend his arms and launch some attack, then come flying down and kick you, then summon a friend and punch you, then do a combo, then appear behind you and kill you. All in 5 seconds. With MK, it's quite easy to break an attack because you can actually see the character beginning to do that attack. Yeah, you have around a second to react but still.

For games like MK or GoW (A game that I really like), I WOULD like to see the finisher moves being saved only for boss fights. For example, allow me to kill Hades as flashy as it is. I don't need to kill its minions the same gory way over and over and over and over again. At the end, I usually just try to hit them until I see the finisher move cause I'm lazy. But if you see those finisher moves less often, they'll be more flashy later, obviously.

But alas, gore and sex sells. Those two can make up for a mediocre games.
I'm looking at you, Bayonetta.
 

Fullmetalfox

New member
Apr 5, 2011
42
0
0
ouch111 said:
Fullmetalfox said:
VATS in Fallout 3 gets really old really fast tough.
What! Blowing up the cranium of a mutant never gets old!
You are right, blowing up the cranium of a mutant never gets old, but watching the computer do it for you every time does.
 

Neferius

New member
Sep 1, 2010
361
0
0
Wait... too many whats spoiling the what-now o_O!!?
...oh. Well, this is Embarrassing. I accidentally read cooks minus one "o" ...and with an extra "c"

-_-'

I'll just chock this one up to sleep deprivation and never speak of it again... deal?

OT: Another game which is plagued by the same problem Yahtzee is beating on here but which was not mentioned is Fable 3; where practically every "flourish" finishing move plays like a slow-motion money$hot :| ...though I noticed it tends to stop after they've played the same sequence over seven times or so and just plays it real-time without any camera-angles.
Soo, I guess kudos for Lionhead studios o_O?
 

KrubixCube

New member
May 26, 2011
50
0
0
I decided not to buy this game pretty much right after I saw a video of all of the big finishing moves? Why? Because that's pretty much the only reason to pick up these games, which made me realize that's not much of an experience. Plus, having seen them once that was more than enough. The reason why a brutal moment is good in a film is because there's generally a build up to it and (most importantly) it happens once in the film. If a game is built up around these "shocking" moves that happen again and again and again then they become not shocking by default.
 

Arppis

New member
May 28, 2011
84
0
0
To be honest, I hate it when I lose control of my character in mid combat. These finishers don't bother me as long as the other enemies can't attack me. Or if they can and I can cancel the attack. But what bothers me even more about video games are the mid-combat cutscenes. Nothing pisses me off more than cutscene of some new enemy appearing while I was trying to do something precise, like just about to shoot someones head with sniper. Or in Uncharted 2, when I was trying to fight off squad of soldiers, while hiding in the train-wreck and this cutscene (about 2 guys with miniguns) in middle of me trying to roll away from sniper aim starts. Drake ofcourse had jumped OUTSIDE the train while the cutscene was playing. >.<

I have to agree with Yahtzee here, atleast as far as them stopping the flow of combat goes. If they are going to use finishers, make them faster and more efficent or let players cancel them if things get hairy.
 

Vect

New member
Jul 22, 2009
48
0
0
Well, on Quick Finishers the Assassin's Creed games usually had finishing moves/counter kills that don't last too long. Mostly it's just stabbing a mook in the vitals or a fancy cut. In Brotherhood, Ezio can move from mook to mook doing really quick finishing moves.

I don't have much problems with Finishers but I guess I'd rather them be quick and brutal rather than overelaborate (though as boss finishers they can be satisfying).
 

Sabinfrost

New member
Mar 2, 2011
174
0
0
It never gets old with friends... just saying. It's like playing street fighter with a mate and hitting your ultra combo. Bit biased, but I never get sick of seeing Zangief do his ultimate atomic buster on one of my hapless chums.