Or one of your teammates can come and in and Yoink it away from you. In the end, it's a good reward for taking a risk.Slinker07 said:
Extra Punctuation: Action Is Not Finisher Porn
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
So mk9's xray moves are bad and arkham asylum's fighting is alright.
Cannot honestly tell if trolling or genuinely emitting dreadful opinions.
Cannot honestly tell if trolling or genuinely emitting dreadful opinions.
Oh good! Glad to know I wasn't the only one who grew sick of Kratos' finishers (once I grew desensitized to them anyway). I didn't even realize how desensitized I had become until I noticed I was bored and wondered if he knew of any more colorful ways to gut a centaur...
X-rays and Ultras in SF4 are there as sorta hype-inflators. They do a good deal (but not insurmountable) of damage and can end or turn around a match, and it requires a conscious decision on the players part.
In addition they must be managed, you can't just use it to get ahead in a fight or you won't have it ready in the next round. It adds a layer of strategy and can greatly excite players and audience in alot of situations.
I like them.
Repetitive finishers get boring fast however, as you do nothing special for them there's no real reward situation there or anything. I for one don't really like artificially cinematic moments like that, but I do see how its nice after a big boss or something.
In addition they must be managed, you can't just use it to get ahead in a fight or you won't have it ready in the next round. It adds a layer of strategy and can greatly excite players and audience in alot of situations.
I like them.
Repetitive finishers get boring fast however, as you do nothing special for them there's no real reward situation there or anything. I for one don't really like artificially cinematic moments like that, but I do see how its nice after a big boss or something.
X-rays are supers. It's just another attack that costs meter. They cost 3 meters, has character specific properties, and can't be broken with a breaker. Thats it. What your character's x-ray does is an important tactical decision.
I.e. Kung Lao's x-ray is a really good anti air that has a little bit of a bigger hitbox then his normal spin. It also has armor, easy to hit in combos, and after it hits you can dash and combo 2,4,1+3,(JF)2.
Also, doing an x-ray at the end of a combo isn't the most efficient way of doing damage in mk. For a lot of characters, it's better to use EX moves then an x-ray in a combo. It saves meter, does about the same damage, and lets you keep meter to use a breaker to regain momentum if you start getting hit.
Fatals are just added in for both nostalgia and is basically ingame teabagging. It's completely optional
But Yahtzee has yet to play a fighting game except SSBB. The reason I say this is because you need other people to actually play a fighting game. They are multiplayer games. Period. Judging a fighting game on its single player and story alone is like judging chess for the same reasons. They aren't designed for that purpose and it is silly to judge them that way.
I.e. Kung Lao's x-ray is a really good anti air that has a little bit of a bigger hitbox then his normal spin. It also has armor, easy to hit in combos, and after it hits you can dash and combo 2,4,1+3,(JF)2.
Also, doing an x-ray at the end of a combo isn't the most efficient way of doing damage in mk. For a lot of characters, it's better to use EX moves then an x-ray in a combo. It saves meter, does about the same damage, and lets you keep meter to use a breaker to regain momentum if you start getting hit.
Fatals are just added in for both nostalgia and is basically ingame teabagging. It's completely optional
But Yahtzee has yet to play a fighting game except SSBB. The reason I say this is because you need other people to actually play a fighting game. They are multiplayer games. Period. Judging a fighting game on its single player and story alone is like judging chess for the same reasons. They aren't designed for that purpose and it is silly to judge them that way.
Started reading this on my iphone and was misreading the second "o" in cooks for a "c" the whole way through, it still made complete sense.
As for the rest of the article, I am a firm believer in the "all things in moderation" I only want to see some cinematic hands off death scene, for bosses or for special kills that take a lot of effort to accomplish and that I'm not going to be able to do every minion or two.
As for the rest of the article, I am a firm believer in the "all things in moderation" I only want to see some cinematic hands off death scene, for bosses or for special kills that take a lot of effort to accomplish and that I'm not going to be able to do every minion or two.
Or infuriating situations. I've lost track of how many times I only wanted a simple beat down because there were more guys in the room but ended up getting smoked fried because my guy decided to do his best impression of Ezio. But they're fun mano e mano or during the campaign though.Slinker07 said:
OT: Totally agree with you Yahtzee about this. It was the biggest problem with Viking: Battle for Asgard. You would just spam the attack button to kill mooks until the Sub-Bosses came out to kill you. You would spam a couple more attacks till QTE showed up; it was cool the first few times but the animations stayed the same and the enemies stayed the same. So by the end of the game it was just fucking annoying rather than cool
I'd like to think the kingdom hearts series does a good job with flow with the exception of kingdom hearts two that gets really caught up in quick time event kills. Also I think dynasty warriors has a fair amount of flow for those willing to actually play with the controls (I'm the only one who ever seems to combine charges swift attacks and mousous)
You should know better than that Jim is the guy who uses troll tactics yathzee genuinely means it and while we are in the neighborhood you mind explaining why yathzee's opinion is dreadful? Cause it seems like the point of his article was that X-ray moves stop the flow of combat while in arkam you didn't have those things and you just punched and kicked never stopping thus maintaining flow(I'm honestly surprised he didn't mention prince of persia or maybe that last prince of persia game killed the romance they had)RIOgreatescapist said:
Arkham Asylum really did have a nasty combat-flow system. Very delicious for the most part, my only gripe with it being that, playing on PC at least, sometimes it was hard to aim at precisely the fellow you wanted to hit next to keep your chain going. Not really a problem in the main game, but when you're doing challenge mode arenas and trying for the use-every-move-in-an-unbroken-combo score bonus, swinging at the guy who's getting up off the ground instead of the one right next to him who's about to pull a gun out of a gun box can make or break the attempt. x.x
Other than that it was lovely.
Maybe I'm misremembering.
Other than that it was lovely.
Of the many things he praised about Prince of Persia, I don't think the combat was one. Passable, but not "play this game for the awesome combat mechanics."Swifteye said:
Maybe I'm misremembering.
I think the Assassin's Creed games had the perfect balance of flow and spectacle. The animations flowed together incredibly well--your sword would never stop moving in the time it took to kill several different enemies, seamlessly switching from a slash to the throat to a thrust in the chest. The finishers, too, were pretty much all quick and nasty and never lasted more than a couple seconds, and there were enough of them that it was uncommon to see the same one more than once in a fight. I want more third-person combat like that, because it was an immensely satisfying experience.
This is why the Blazblue series are my favourite fighting games. The animations flow very smoothly, the controls are easy to learn, but they're still tough games to master. And there's no finisher porn in them. They are, in my opinion, what fighting games should be.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, they also have some really sweet soundtracks.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, they also have some really sweet soundtracks.
What if the finishing moves were only for the last attack in a group of enemies? Similar to how Arkham Asylum slowed down the last hit on the final thug of the room.
I disagree with him totally about Bayonetta. The only mandatory finishers were the boss finishers, and she had a unique finish for every single boss. You can accuse Bayonetta of many things, but monotony and laziness are definitely not among them.
Bayonetta didn't have finishers outside of the summon finishers in the boss fights, which were all awesome, and you only saw them once in the game. The torture attacks weren't finishers, they were special moves.
Edit:
Edit:
Lol, you posted this as I was typing my post.Optimystic said:
Should point out Street Fighter does X-Ray moves even worse with their super and ultra "combos".
And I like the X-ray moves. They are not too long, and they are as repetitive as any other thing in a fighting game. When I use Smoke, I do the same things. Even worse I often have to fight Scorpion anyways.
This is one of the few times Yahtzee has acually kinda annoyed me. But he is not a fighting game person anyways, so maybe thats why.
And I like the X-ray moves. They are not too long, and they are as repetitive as any other thing in a fighting game. When I use Smoke, I do the same things. Even worse I often have to fight Scorpion anyways.
This is one of the few times Yahtzee has acually kinda annoyed me. But he is not a fighting game person anyways, so maybe thats why.
I completely agree, Yahtzee, that was your best metaphor so far.
I also agree with the other stuff. Finishers should be a cool thing that takes some effort to do and are not required, so the short animation feels like what it's supposed to be: a reward. If it's actually required to defeat an enemy it's in the way.
I also agree with the other stuff. Finishers should be a cool thing that takes some effort to do and are not required, so the short animation feels like what it's supposed to be: a reward. If it's actually required to defeat an enemy it's in the way.
I think Batman:AA and Ninja Gaiden 2 are really the superior examples to be referenced. Both of them don't require you to use the finishing moves, but if you do, not only are you treated to a nice little animation but you also make proper use of the game's efficient techniques. It rewards you in more ways than one.
...between the two games, though, Batman probably serves as a better example because as soon as you're done with your execution move in NG2, you get gang banged the moment the last animation frame ends. It doesn't flow as well as Batman's finishers/combat, but it's still an appropriate example of quick and cool finishing moves.
...between the two games, though, Batman probably serves as a better example because as soon as you're done with your execution move in NG2, you get gang banged the moment the last animation frame ends. It doesn't flow as well as Batman's finishers/combat, but it's still an appropriate example of quick and cool finishing moves.