Extra Punctuation: Getting Innovation Wrong

Snowblindblitz

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Hitman Dread said:
Falseprophet said:
The only use for a controller screen I can think of would be a local multiplayer game where you have information you want hidden from other players, like strategy (turn-based or RTS), card games or football. Does anyone make these kinds of games any more?
You are rather simply minded if that is truly all you can think of. A 2nd screen opens up a world of options. Allow me to go through some current gen games and showcase how they could be improved with this alleged controller.

Metal Gear Solid 4: You now discuss with Otocan during battle, drastically cutting down on cutscene time (something the game needs) as well as increasing emersion. The visuals were rarely essential in those cam calls anyway, so they video could play while you continue scoping out the level. Now Metal Gear Solid has finally successfully fused it's story with it's gameplay, instead of them being two separate entities.

Multiweapon FPS: Your items are all on the touch screen, allowing you to call them in on the fly. The basic UI on this could be done a number of different ways, and done correctly the player could easily commit this to muscle memory as he already does many other things. There's actually quite a bit that can be done with FPSes and this 2nd screen, from simple item interface to calling an air strike.

RTS: RTS's have never worked with consols, but this may give them a chance. Having this screen could allow for dealing with complex interfaces that RTS's require.

These are just basic UI enhancements too, from an artistic standpoint there's a flurry of ideas that could be brought to the table.
Some of this I agree with, but the FPS and RTS in a competitive environment seem way too hard to pull off. Muscle memory, yes, but I still feel like it would further alienate the more casual online crowd, the group of people who enjoy non casual games but don't have the time to become the 50 kill "noob haters" like some people are. I always thought the second screen on a dreamcast was neat, and, if anything, they should make it a removable mini game system, so you can bring your games with you, link up outside of the house, etc.
 

jedizero

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I'm sorry, but am I the only one getting the feeling that Yahtzee wants us all to not go forwards? To not experiment and learn more about video gaming?

He bitches about how people try new things and it ruins everything, and in the same breath he bitches about how everything is so 'samey'.

You can't have it both ways, Yahtzee. If you want the same old games over and over and over again, then go ahead and ***** about how everything keeps changing, but you cannot in the same breath condemn a game for being 'more of the same'.
 

SovietSecrets

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I don't have a problem with 3D at all really. I think its a cool system to employ in future generations of consoles and handhelds. The 3DS is just a starting point for Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. I count Sony too because Nintendo found a way to make it work without the glasses and the fact that the option is there makes it better. It feels like too many think 3D is going to become the MUST be in standard in games, but it should just remain an option like we have right now. Course that being said quality of games could be diminished because of the entire putting some 3D elements in the game for those who like it and keeping the game itself regular for those who don't, but thats another story. I don't consider 3D a gimmick at all as of now as its a pretty new idea that's being incorporated into things and some time has to be given before final judgement on it has been passed. Too many are calling it right now with this just barely in development.
 

Covarr

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May 29, 2009
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Regarding the whole "PDA thing is cool but isn't an adequate substitute for pausing" thing, I think Yahtzee sort of has a point. However, I think what this really shows is that Nintendo is looking back to past failures and trying to build a success out of them.

Look at GBA-GC connectivity. Four Swords Adventures was a great game for single OR multiplayer and it used the dual-screen system quite well in allowing people to enter rooms and caves without all having to do so at once, but the need for a GBA and a cable for each player made it expensive and inconvenient to get a four-player game going, not to mention the original GBA's screen sucked.

The same thing with Crystal Chronicles, letting each player have their own inventory really added a wonderful layer of depth to the game. Where it ran into issues was with the shortage of buttons, lack of analog control, and clunky menu navigation. However, the supposed Project Cafe controller HAS more buttons and dual-analog sticks, not to mention a touchscreen would really help to lessen the difficulty of navigating a menu mid-battle.

In all, reusing this idea but with a lower cost of entry and more convenience, as well as building it in so that other developers will be more likely to use it, is a fantastic idea as far as I'm concerned. Sure, some developers will misuse or abuse it, but hell there's always gonna be someone who can't make decent control schemes, even on a traditional controller (see: about a third of the NES games that AVGN has reviewed).

Instead of merely passing it off as a pointless gimmick, imagine the possible uses for it: Card games can hide players' hands, sports games can hide plays, people can solve puzzles separately in a cooperative game, players can manage their own inventories or spells without everyone else having to pause, and command menus don't have to clutter up the main screen. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.

What it boils down to is that this is Nintendo catering to the crowd that they've been serving since the N64: multiplayer. They were the first to have a console with four controller ports without the need of a multitap since the Atari 5200. They released the first handheld game system with any sort of remotely decent online play capabilities. They've launched series after series designed with multiplayer in mind (Mario Part, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, etc). While I don't doubt that this new controller has its uses in single player, I'm almost positive that they were thinking of multiplayer games when they made it.

P.S. Thanks

P.P.S. I hope they remake Pac-Man VS for this system, and sell it as a low-cost downloadable title.
 

yanipheonu

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Though at least 3D can work alongside normal games and is otherwise unobstructive. YOu can make a perfectly normal game... and have 3D as well, there's not as much of a barrier, and really WHY NOT have 3D? especially if you can turn it off if you have an irrational hatred of 3D or are a cyclops

I love my Wii, but I get that the motion controls get in the way of many devs trying to make normal games.

3D (doesn't) represent the way forward because they both involve making games and movies less immersive
Yahtzee.... WHUT? I mean, WHAT???? How is that even taken as a given?? I have two eyes, I can see 3D in normal life, does that make my life LESS IMMERSIVE????. If I can gauge depth perception in my games it can make it more immersive and actually helps since... well you can perceive depth better, that's the whole point.

And he doesn't even explain what he means. Not that I've taken Yahtzee that seriously, but still, at least when doesn't like something, he usually explains why....
 

demoncub1990

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Now that i'm imagining it yes it would be quite hilarious to see nintendo ripping it's hair out due to frustration. but seriously we really need the dual analog sticks back *goes to play on PS2*
 

Lagslayer

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I'm not against the HD, 3D, touch screen, etc. just because it is what it is. Higher quality pictures and new methods of interactivity and control are not a bad things inherently. It's when they are used as an excuse not to develop in other areas that it pisses me off. How many 3D movies can you name where it doesn't exist just to say "LOOK! I GOT 3D!!!". The interactive technologies, touch screen and motion sensitivity, I feel are a little better, but are still too frequently used in a similar fashion.

All of these things are being raped for spectacle instead of being worked into the experience properly most of the time.
 

Mantonio

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I feel you've not given 3D a fair try. Or at least, you haven't looked at what good 3D is.

I recommend this article http://www.cracked.com/article_18877_4-reasons-3-d-movies-dont-have-to-suck.html (yes yes, Cracked just read it.) This article is about movie 3D, but it can just as easily apply to videogames.

3D can be good, but the majority of people don't use it the right way, and only use it to make some quick extra money. In this case, don't hate the game, hate the player.
 

Volkov

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Squilookle said:
And you know what? Blu Ray and HD-DVD were exactly the same thing- a technological gimmick that nobody even needed.
I disagree with this. Higher-definition image does, actually, help watch some movies.

BUT:
- Most movies do not benefit from the higher definition.
- An image with EVEN higher definition than Blu Ray would NOT be useful. There is no use for any more pixels than that.
- The sound that both BR and HD-DVD provided is also about as good as is necessary for a home setup. I really don't think that any time in the next few decades sound systems will get so good that they will need higher definition sound than that carried by the blu ray.
 

Volkov

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Oh, and on-topic: I pretty much agree with Yahtzee, but with a few caveats:
- 3D is a complete waste, it needs to fucking end. He is 100% right about that.
- Motion control, I think, has some use. But, it needs to be FAAAAAAR more precise than what the Wii can offer, in order to help. The ideal game for motion control, I think, is a fighting game, where the motion controller reads your body's movement and reproduces it on screen. But. That's basically what Wii boxing does... except that if you actually move your hands as fast as you would in a fight, the fucking thing completely fails to register that. Because it's not fast enough for it, so it really turns into a gesture mode, not a true reproducible motion. And gesture-based controls are fucking idiotic.

So I think motion control has potential, but Wii failed to pick up on that potential. Largely because the instrumentation isn't there yet - cheap MEMS accelerometers are not sufficiently accurate to pick up on a boxer's hands.
 

itsmeyouidiot

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I think the 3DS and the next home console are going to be awesome mainly becasue of the games, really.

As long as project Cafe has graphics better than the 360 and ample 3rd-party support, I'll be fine.
 

OldNewNewOld

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Juan Regular said:
Srdjan Tanaskovic said:
Motion Control: Bad
3DS: Bad
New Games in there franchises: Bad
Upcoming Console: Bad

I mean really?
And he backs all of it up with valid points, doesn´t he? But to me The franchise thing has always been the biggest stone in my shoe. I used to love Mario, Zelda, Metroid and so forth when I was a kid but now after seeing them for years on end, I´ve gotten so sick of all of them. At some point you have to leave the old heroes be and create some new ones.
No he doesn't.

He's talking how PS3 and Xbox are to expensive for third part developers, jet he thinks 3D is bad since it's not a hologram.
He doesn't like motion control since he didn't play a game with GOOD motion controls where the motion was used in a natural way (play Red Steal 2 and you will see how awesome motion controls are when done right)

He doesn't like new games of Nintendo's olf franchises, jet he doesn't give even 1 solid reason. No, Mario Galaxy 2 is not a clone of Galaxy one. It's a continuation of the story. Is CoD 4 a clone of CoD 3?

Upcoming console, where NOTHING is really knows, jet he doesn't like it.
I see tons of possible uses for the screen, only if those developers know how to use it right. Not "put something there so it seems like we used it".

He does have some points, but the whole text looks like a HUGE rant because Nintendo tries to innovate, but doesn't do it right, jet he completely ignores Sony and MS who didn't do ANYTHING for the game industry at all.

He just sounds like a kid who hates Nintendo, nothing more.
I'm disappointed. Try pointing those fingers some someone who seriously deserves it (Sony, MS).
 

LobsterFeng

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I'm so glad that someone besides me hates 3D. 3D was invented in the 1950's when the home television became popular. Hollywood was losing a ton of money because people didn't see the need to go out to movies anymore, they had movies at their house now! So Hollywood invented something to try and show audiences that you can have something at the movies that you can't have at your house. And that is 3D. That's all it is, a cheap gimmick to try and hide how horrible it actually is.
 

Dhatz

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still its extremely disadvantageous for orientation not to have 3D,I figured Tron Evolution would be way more onjoyable if I could sense the space from one angle.
 

RottingAwesome

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fantastic column this week, Yahtzee and I have to say that I agree with you on most, if not all points
not much humor to be found but excellent nonetheless
 

Mahorfeus

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Yahtzee's greatest failure is that he identifies a primary purpose of gaming development as advancing gaming as a whole. This is largely false - the point of gaming development is to cater to a demographic, whether the developers admit or not. They develop these technologies because they believe that a large group of people will spend money on it and have fun, not because they give two fucks about the "future of gaming." Yet people shun the "gimmick" because of the connotation that it is inherently crappy, despite the fact that they have existed for quite some time. You cannot properly justify that something should not exist simply because it does not innovate, or does not cater to your likings. All that matters is whether it sells or not, and whether people like it or not, 3D is just one of those things.