Extra Punctuation: Getting Innovation Wrong

[Toriver]

Usually the "Extra Punctuation" articles are a little more thought-out than the gripe and mock shtick for the videos, but this is just whining. And frankly, it's gotten tedious. Yes, you don't like motion controls. Yes, you have many convoluted reasons for why you think making a gimmicky new controller is a bad thing.

Don't forget, "Yes, you hate Nintendo."

It's the same old thing repeated over and over on a topic that seems little more than purely personal opinion justified by rambling sort-of-sensical arguments.

Yeah, I'm agreeing with this. I've almost stopped watching ZP for the same reason. It's just getting old.

 

[Aurgelmir]

And you know what? Blue Ray and HD-DVD were exactly the same thing- a technological gimmick that nobody even needed.

Um no.

HD-TVs had been making their way to the market in a steady pace. Screens have gotten bigger and so has the resolution. Blu-Ray was introduced to give you the full visual effect of your TV, something DVD could not. It also contained way mote storage than a DVD something the PS3 is taking advantage of.

Sure more and more is becoming digital downloads, but you can't expect people to have the opportunity to download 10s of gigabytes just yet, and the DVD is also running out of space.

So compared to 3D Blu-Ray was an expected evolution of the TV/film market.

 

[Squilookle]

And you know what? Blu Ray and HD-DVD were exactly the same thing- a technological gimmick that nobody even needed.

I disagree with this. Higher-definition image does, actually, help watch some movies.

BUT:
- Most movies do not benefit from the higher definition.
- An image with EVEN higher definition than Blu Ray would NOT be useful. There is no use for any more pixels than that.
- The sound that both BR and HD-DVD provided is also about as good as is necessary for a home setup. I really don't think that any time in the next few decades sound systems will get so good that they will need higher definition sound than that carried by the blu ray.

Yeah see, what you listed pretty much sums up my thoughts on DVD.

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

And you know what? Blue Ray and HD-DVD were exactly the same thing- a technological gimmick that nobody even needed.

Hey man. Don't hate on bluray.
Some of us are connoisseurs!
Your average DVD audio is 192kbps. I think the majority of my blurays have audio tracks that are at least 2000kbps, if not more. That alone was worth the switch for me.
If you think that isn't a significant jump in quality, get better speakers. If you don't think the image quality is better either, get a better TV.
And to add to that, PAL regions have to deal with a 4% speed-up on our DVD's. Doesn't sound like much, but that ends up being about a semi-tone increase in pitch and enough of a speed increase to totally destroy the pacing of everything you watch. If you do not believe me, take one of your NTSC dvd's, play it with VLC player and put the speed thing in the bottom right corner to 1.04x and observe the difference for yourself.
Blurays all play at the correct speed, except for extremely lazy transfers (such as Four Lions, where the only versions you can get on physical media are both PAL, the DVD *AND* the bluray.)

I don't know about you, but I don't want to be viewing works of artistic genius at anything less that the optimum quality. If you don't care for quality, that's fine, but don't write it off just because you don't care about how shitty quality affects the experience of watching a film for those who do.

Anyway. Great article. Busted out the old PS2 recently, been playing some Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 and having some of the most fun I've had playing a video game in years. For all the technological and "artistic" advancement gaming has been making, it's the games that still feel like GAMES that really give me my kicks in this specific medium.
You can take your pseudo-realism, I'll stick to escapism in games.

 

[JackWestJr]

I would REALLY LIKE TO KNOW why Yahtzee can swear in his articles, yet we cannot do so in the forums that is bs!

 

[TheXRatedDodo]

Um, I was under the impression that we could as long as it wasn't over the top and/or directed at someone?

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

Next console control upgrade should be the Trackball Controller:

A thousand times.. THIS.

I'm already years ahead of the majority of PC gamers because I use a $100 Kensington Trackball Mouse... can't believe this hasn't been tried yet.

There's a reason pc mice don't have balls any more just laser sensors. Its because all the muscles for the hand are in the forearm and wrists. Professional artist draw from the wrist to achieve superior accuracy on there movements which what you can do with high end laser mice. But the idea for console gamers is great.

I never said my Trackball didn't have lasers sensors... This beauty is what every PC gamer should have:

You have piqued my interest.
I love the mouse. LOVE it. It's one of the main reasons I still prefer PC over console. But the one thing you can't do with a mouse is keep it moving indefinitely in one direction, which is a problem I've been thinking a trackball might solve without losing any of the accuracy. Hmm, decisions decisions...

 

[Dr. Wily III]

You poor poor people, I can't even see 3D so I am saved from being dragged into the "greatness" from friends that 3D is supossed to be.

I don't even get how 3D became more popular than sliced bread.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Having no depth perception and therefore not being able to see 3D, I really fail to see what the fuss is about.

I got my 3DS for three reasons:

- I needed a DS that could go through WPA security.
- My old DS was exactly that, old.
- It has an analogue stick (kind of).

The whole 3D aspect can go rot somewhere for all I care.

 

[TheRealCJ]

And if you used the touch screen for extra contextual buttons then you'll run into the iPhone game problem that there'll be no physical feedback.

Isn't the screen supposed to have at least some sort of physical feedback?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109722-Rumor-Nintendos-New-Console-Will-Make-You-Feel

Physical feedback != tactile controls.

With a controller, you move your thumb, find the button, press the button. But most importantly, you don't HAVE to do step three immediately.

But with a touch screen, as soon as you touch it, that's a "press", which means theres no room for error, so you either have to have millimetre-fine spacial perception in your thumbs, or look at the screen. Or you have to hold your thumb above the screen, and a hour of that would be pretty painful.

 

[TheRealCJ]

But surely making a button for the pinkie will alienate our british friends!

Think of the tea drinkers!

SCANDAL!

One NEVER extends one's pinkie while holding a teacup! It the epitome of rudeness!

 

[Trolldor]

Next console control upgrade should be the Trackball Controller:

A thousand times.. THIS.

I'm already years ahead of the majority of PC gamers because I use a $100 Kensington Trackball Mouse... can't believe this hasn't been tried yet.

I had a trackball mouse when you were still at your mother's teate, they're little better than the mousepads on laptops.

 

[Worr Monger]

Next console control upgrade should be the Trackball Controller:

A thousand times.. THIS.

I'm already years ahead of the majority of PC gamers because I use a $100 Kensington Trackball Mouse... can't believe this hasn't been tried yet.

I had a trackball mouse when you were still at your mother's teate, they're little better than the mousepads on laptops.

Then you were doing it wrong.

 

[exampleAccount]

Nintendo's user base:
1. Fanbois who will buy their shit no matter what.
2. People that just want to play Pokemon, Zelda and SSB.
3. Idiots drawn in by cheap gimmicks.
4. People that realise that their latest console is bullshit but buy it anyway to justify hating it.
5. Your Gran.

Those five groups cover about 90% of the population. Notice how only one of those groups is drawn in by actual games, and those are games that haven't changed since the 90's.

 

[Santa216]

Eh. Clearly Yahtzee wrote this before the latest rumours came up.

Decent haptic feedback means you can probably make a decent attempt at using a touchscreen without looking at it.

Better still, the one demonstration video shown of that kind of technology shows it can be applied to curved surfaces, and areas that aren't a screen.

This means it can be applied (in what I would consider the ideal case) the grips of the controller.

(Hence, the area where your palm, and most of your fingers are usually in contact with the controller.)

Lots of options for 'extra' dynamic buttons, and lots of options for touch feedback.



Also, yes, stereoscopic 3d is a half-assed trick that is unlikely to ever get past being a gimmick.

But holographic 3d, is according to recent rumours, about a year from a practical (if incredibly expensive) commercial implementation.

And once you have a holographic 3d display, rather than a stereoscopic one, most of the limitations that stop 3D doing anything useful suddenly go away.

You can have proper depth. From something floating right in front of your nose, to something well into the screen at a huge virtual distance...
You won't need glasses. (because if you did, the holographic principle wouldn't actually work anyway)
Your eyes will be able to focus correctly on the light patterns. (because they are reconstructions of the natural way light would fall on your retina for a set of objects with a given 3d relationship to the viewer)
Chances are, because the effect of the most probable implementation relies on real-time processing (because the location of the viewer is part of the calculation), all existing 3d content will probably work on such a holographic display without needing explicit modification.
That means even if such displays start out horrendously expensive, they are a viable 'soft' upgrade from other 3d displays, because unlike moving from 2d to 3d, you don't need to alter the content to do it. (well, not necessarily. - There's probably a mathematically more efficient way of encoding 3d for holographic displays than simply using the method stereoscopic 3d uses for saving such content. - but that doesn't mean 3d content for stereoscopic displays couldn't be tweaked to work. Obviously, content explicitly designed for a holographic display can do without artificial restrictions caused by the limitations of stereoscopic 3d.)

The most serious limitations will be that the viewing angles, and allowable locations of objects (especially if they seem to be in front of the screen) means that the screen edges put a bit of a limit on where things are visible.
The (seemingly) most practical and useful implementation still requires a lot of processing power, and high-speed eye tracking to make it viable. (Both of which together limit the number of people that can watch a single 3D screen.)
And, the requirements of constructing displays in a manner somewhat different to current displays (3d or otherwise) - even if the overall implementation shares a lot of parts with more traditional displays - means the costs of the earliest models are probably going to be astronomical.

This. I believe Yahtzee touched on this point in the past - it's not Real 3D unless you can move your head and see new detail. This new Nintendo product is not a 3DS, it's a 2D-with-depth-perceptionS, migraine optional. My experience with stereoscopy is admittedly minimal, but I don't think one can really argue against this one point. It's a fact, pure and simple.

This next part is a little off-topic. There's this thing someone posted earlier:

There are several hacks floating around for people using the Wii remote far beyond your standard motion controls. Here's an example:

Watch from about 3:45. Now that, in this humble poster's opinion, is interesting. Convincing, and as easy on the eyes as watching "normal" 2D. What's more important though, is the guy achieved it with nothing more than a camera and "glasses" that are really just there to tell the camera what to look at.

3DS has a camera facing the player. Since it's a handheld, the position of player's head and eyes can be much more easily determined, rendering the "glasses" obsolete.

You can see where I'm going with this. Is it possible to recreate the effect? If so, you can set the 3D slider all the way to "never again" and still have 3D on 3DS. Better, in fact, than what stereoscopy can cough up. No splitting, no headache, no people incapable of using it. Hell, you wouldn't even need two eyes. The pirate lobby is sure to approve.

I have, of course, never had a 3DS in my hands. If there is some obvious reason this can't work, you can disregard the entire idea. Otherwise, I demand to know why not?

 

[Colin Hart]

i have to argue with you; being that the HD-DVD was a total rip off, BLU RAY disk, offer a completly new, and interesting video experience. Of course, you need a BLU ray play, HDMI cord, and a 1080p tv. But if you have all 3 then its a total better experience then DVD. As for 3D, it is a total gimmic. Not worth it at all.

 

[Lukeje]

And if you used the touch screen for extra contextual buttons then you'll run into the iPhone game problem that there'll be no physical feedback.

Isn't the screen supposed to have at least some sort of physical feedback?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109722-Rumor-Nintendos-New-Console-Will-Make-You-Feel

Physical feedback != tactile controls.

With a controller, you move your thumb, find the button, press the button. But most importantly, you don't HAVE to do step three immediately.

But with a touch screen, as soon as you touch it, that's a "press", which means theres no room for error, so you either have to have millimetre-fine spacial perception in your thumbs, or look at the screen. Or you have to hold your thumb above the screen, and a hour of that would be pretty painful.

I did say ``some sort of''. I was making the point that his complaint could turn out to be misguided, not that it would be.

 

[TheRealCJ]

And if you used the touch screen for extra contextual buttons then you'll run into the iPhone game problem that there'll be no physical feedback.

Isn't the screen supposed to have at least some sort of physical feedback?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109722-Rumor-Nintendos-New-Console-Will-Make-You-Feel

Physical feedback != tactile controls.

With a controller, you move your thumb, find the button, press the button. But most importantly, you don't HAVE to do step three immediately.

But with a touch screen, as soon as you touch it, that's a "press", which means theres no room for error, so you either have to have millimetre-fine spacial perception in your thumbs, or look at the screen. Or you have to hold your thumb above the screen, and a hour of that would be pretty painful.

I did say ``some sort of''. I was making the point that his complaint could turn out to be misguided, not that it would be.

Um, okay?

No need to take the offensive. I was just explaining wh physical feedback won't work no matter how it's implemented.