Man, I think this game is really interesting, anthropologically speaking. You know, Relic Entertainment is a company that had done so far PC-oriented games. And that's what this game is, what the master race thinks of console games.
Extra Punctuation: Hating Warhammer 40k and Space Marine
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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no, he just doesn't like this specific military fiction.sharpe95th said:
which, despite being a long time 40k fan, I have to agree is quite horrible.
Battletech would be an example of how a wargame's setting can be rich and well written(especially the central michael stackpole novels)
Remember when the good Mr. Yhatzee said not to let his opinion be your guide to what you do and do not play? Know all of those good reviews about the game, The Cynical Brit loving it and such? Yeah. Those. So you can go bask in your own cloud of smug farts while everyone else has a riot.Zhukov said:
Why thank you Yahtzee.
Thank you for taking the time to write and entire article for the SOLE purpose of pissing people off.
You have your very very odd opinions and I have mine. I prefer to like things, so I adore the tabletop game, the novels and the lore in general.
Thank you for taking the time to write and entire article for the SOLE purpose of pissing people off.
You have your very very odd opinions and I have mine. I prefer to like things, so I adore the tabletop game, the novels and the lore in general.
I has always bothered me that the 40k universe is essentially a massive fascist theocracy where any sort of departure from the dogma of the state is eliminated with extreme prejudice.
There's no one to side with. Space Marines are battle-crazed fanatics. Chaos is hell. Orks are well... orks. Tyranids are insectoid monsters. Eldar would exterminate mankind without a second thought if they could. Tau are space communists. Imperial Guard are part of the aforementioned fascist theocratic space empire. Cultists are either alien or chaos mad. Necrons are space-undead-robot-gods or some shit.
I always thought the emperor should be more like a space-pope. Then there could be multiple human kingdoms/federations/confederacies/compacts.
But no, any difference will be purged by a bunch of insane fanatical jihadist. Bah.
There's no one to side with. Space Marines are battle-crazed fanatics. Chaos is hell. Orks are well... orks. Tyranids are insectoid monsters. Eldar would exterminate mankind without a second thought if they could. Tau are space communists. Imperial Guard are part of the aforementioned fascist theocratic space empire. Cultists are either alien or chaos mad. Necrons are space-undead-robot-gods or some shit.
I always thought the emperor should be more like a space-pope. Then there could be multiple human kingdoms/federations/confederacies/compacts.
But no, any difference will be purged by a bunch of insane fanatical jihadist. Bah.
I couldn't agree more with the point of wanting to play D&D for the storytelling aspect. I love the way it allows you to pursue the story and roleplay aspect. But I've only played with groups that like the combat only and don't give a shit about the story. I need more Yahtzee's in my D&D groups. 
As a 40K fan, and someone who already knew Yahtzee was not fond of the concept I am really not taking this to heart (I haven't played Space Marine it's my least favorite game genre and considering I despise Gear of War I doubt I'll like it).
Everyone's entitled to their opinions, personally I like most of the races back-stories, particularly the Space Marines as they used to be a whole lot more interesting than they are now (See Horus Heresy) in the actual 41 Millennium though? All about the Imperial Guard. Far more interesting and character that actually have *Gasp* Personality and story arcs!
Everyone's entitled to their opinions, personally I like most of the races back-stories, particularly the Space Marines as they used to be a whole lot more interesting than they are now (See Horus Heresy) in the actual 41 Millennium though? All about the Imperial Guard. Far more interesting and character that actually have *Gasp* Personality and story arcs!
Holy hell the last few sentences were dark! Yet at the same time kinda funny... [sub][sub]I'm going to hell aren't I?[/sub][/sub]
Anyways, I've been meaning to check Warhammer 40k out, but never had the chance to download it. I was kinda hoping he'd expand on Resistance 3 a little more, but instead I got him pissing off people, which sounds about right, don't know why I'd expect anything less.
D'oh well.
Anyways, I've been meaning to check Warhammer 40k out, but never had the chance to download it. I was kinda hoping he'd expand on Resistance 3 a little more, but instead I got him pissing off people, which sounds about right, don't know why I'd expect anything less.
D'oh well.
This, all of this. Played DH myself so much fun though you better enjoy a high casualty rate. One campaign ran only six months everyone but me lost at least one char, one of my friends lost four of his guys, but then again nobody ever expects the psyker to be the last survivorZachary Kramer said:
A goatee is no more pretentious than the hair on my arse.sharpe95th said:
Its not that odd of an opinion.MrDeckard said:
"I prefer to like things so, there you go." And what does that even mean? You like things purely because you dislike disliking them?
OT: I've seen a few users try and present their Warhammer fan-fiction as a piece of creative writing that they actually want to hand in for an English assignment. That's always been... interesting.
Gears of War had about zero back-story (not even in the pathetically thin user's guide). But it never pretended to. It was just stupid big muscle-dudes with no helmets shooting bad stuff from behind cover.
What bugs me about WH40K is that it PRETENDS to have a back-story but doesn't really. There's just no real explanation of motivations, economy, politics, etc. And from the extremely limited story that is there, these other levels of detail are rendered impossible. It's just WE KILL THEM, and THEY KILL US. That's it.
What I couldn't ever understand is why those huge imaginary table-top army clashes were ever considered possible or even desireable. Since the invention of the rifle it's been bad form to mass troops and advance in large numbers. It's just too easy to put too much explosive power in a targeted area for the opponent to survive. So it's all about small unit tactics and staying out of sight and behind cover. The only reason human waves worked a little in North Korea was that they were HUMAN so tactical nukes weren't used. No such problem with Orks.
It's all just unrealistic bull that only the most juvenile middle-schooler would find engaging.
What bugs me about WH40K is that it PRETENDS to have a back-story but doesn't really. There's just no real explanation of motivations, economy, politics, etc. And from the extremely limited story that is there, these other levels of detail are rendered impossible. It's just WE KILL THEM, and THEY KILL US. That's it.
What I couldn't ever understand is why those huge imaginary table-top army clashes were ever considered possible or even desireable. Since the invention of the rifle it's been bad form to mass troops and advance in large numbers. It's just too easy to put too much explosive power in a targeted area for the opponent to survive. So it's all about small unit tactics and staying out of sight and behind cover. The only reason human waves worked a little in North Korea was that they were HUMAN so tactical nukes weren't used. No such problem with Orks.
It's all just unrealistic bull that only the most juvenile middle-schooler would find engaging.
I enjoy some parts of Warhammer, and some I do not.
Orks are used too much as comic relief - we don't need comic relief if it's the "grim future". Fair enough, they can build ramshackle weapons and make them work just fine, but let's stop there. Pity's sake, they're a horde of barbarians with guns, not clowns with war paint, even if they're usually depicted as the latter.
I agree when Yahtzee said Space Marine was boring. It's predictable, and although I enjoyed playing a Warhammer game from a first-person perspective, it's very standard. I didn't use half the guns available, preferring the Daemon Hammer above all else, which, coupled with the jump pack, could obliterate virtually anything.
What the Daemon Hammer/jump pack combo couldn't do, the Kraken Bolter took care of just fine. Anything out of melee range became a fine red mist.
It had some unique aspects, but it's another one of those games that anyone with a competent development team could put together in relatively little time, perhaps save for the graphics, which, I think, were actually quite good.
Warhammer has a very simple story, it has a lot of holes out and about open for interpretation to the extent of THQ making their own Space Marine chapter entirely - a practice also performed by many players, both video games and tabletop alike.
Space Marine was all right, but not worth the 50 euros it's sold for.
I feel like the price is primarily due to either:
A) The graphics
B) The fact that it's an FPS WH40K game.
Orks are used too much as comic relief - we don't need comic relief if it's the "grim future". Fair enough, they can build ramshackle weapons and make them work just fine, but let's stop there. Pity's sake, they're a horde of barbarians with guns, not clowns with war paint, even if they're usually depicted as the latter.
I agree when Yahtzee said Space Marine was boring. It's predictable, and although I enjoyed playing a Warhammer game from a first-person perspective, it's very standard. I didn't use half the guns available, preferring the Daemon Hammer above all else, which, coupled with the jump pack, could obliterate virtually anything.
What the Daemon Hammer/jump pack combo couldn't do, the Kraken Bolter took care of just fine. Anything out of melee range became a fine red mist.
It had some unique aspects, but it's another one of those games that anyone with a competent development team could put together in relatively little time, perhaps save for the graphics, which, I think, were actually quite good.
Warhammer has a very simple story, it has a lot of holes out and about open for interpretation to the extent of THQ making their own Space Marine chapter entirely - a practice also performed by many players, both video games and tabletop alike.
Space Marine was all right, but not worth the 50 euros it's sold for.
I feel like the price is primarily due to either:
A) The graphics
B) The fact that it's an FPS WH40K game.
Don't forget that he gets paid for things like this. He doesn't like it, which is fine, but how about he elaborate on why it sucks beyond "There cannot only be war in the future."MrDeckard said:
I bet it's never occurred to him that not every minute detail of a setting in tabletop gaming/Space Marine has to be laid out in front of the players for them to enjoy it. But I guess for him, the opposite is true, especially when it comes to war games.
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I think the most interesting thing they could do with Cole Train is to make him gay, just casually mention his husband someplace in gears 3 and leave the rest up to the imagination. But yeah Cole bugs me also, hes so in your face and annoying and treats a "serious" situation like a football game. At least Baird is sarcastic as hell about things which makes more sense.KDR_11k said:
I honestly like the 40k setting for the same reason that I like Judge Dredd, yes, it's a horrible place that no-one in their right mind would want to be in but that's part of what makes it entertaining, because it's so horrifically over the top it means that it can be absolutely hilarious at times, massively epic at others and allows itself enough openness for anyone to essentially ad-lib their own sub-plots in (if in doubt, invent a solar system/planet, gives you free reign to come up with whatever backstory you please) which is vital for a hobby which is largely centred in the imagination and creativity of it's fans.
I have a hunch that Yahtzee's ire towards the space marines of Warhammer 40k may be somewhat unjustified because, well, they are very different from the other generic, grizzled US Marine Corps wannabe types that inhabit many other sci-fi shooters (try as you might the only real similarity you'll find between CoG from Gears of War and the Adeptus Astartes is the fact that both happen to be made up of large, muscular men in power armour, and even then there are a lot of little details that seperate those facts) and his claim of the setting being inherantly ridiculous is on one hand completely missing the point and on the other based on a rather flimsy premise.
I've already addressed as to why this is missing the point before (everything in Warhammer is taken to almost humourous extremes, of course it's ridiculous, you could argue that it's intentionally ridiculous) but as for why I believe it's a flimsy premise, he argues that the setting is ridiculous based on stuff like it being 'the grim darkness of the future and there is only war' being impossible, that would be fine if it weren't for the fact that most games set in fantasy or sci-fi settings out there have just as (if not even more so) ridiculous aspects to them that we're more often than not willing to let slide.
To form an example from a series that Yahtzee is fond of let's take Half Life 2 (and no, I'm not going to go into detail about how theoretically the Gravity Gun would actually be more of a ball-and-chain than a useful addition to your inventory, I shall save that for another day), I'm just gonna be blunt about something that is mentioned often in Half Life 2 and the episodes, the suppression field. A mysterious 'field/signal' that in some unexplained way not only inhibits our ability to reproduce but also apparantly kills everyone's urge to have sex.
I repeat, we have a mysterious piece of technology who's only sole purpose is to keep people from rocking the Casbah and yet for many people this was completely fine and didn't break their immersion or appreciation of the setting.
If you're gonna be cynical and snarky enough to call out a setting for technicalities like 'why would you bother with super soldiers?' or 'how would endless warfare work anyway?' then surely you'd be facing the same problem with your suspension of disbelief being shattered by every fantastic or outlandish concept or cencept present in the vast genres of Sci-Fi or Fantasy (least of all an anti-fucking field).
I have a hunch that Yahtzee's ire towards the space marines of Warhammer 40k may be somewhat unjustified because, well, they are very different from the other generic, grizzled US Marine Corps wannabe types that inhabit many other sci-fi shooters (try as you might the only real similarity you'll find between CoG from Gears of War and the Adeptus Astartes is the fact that both happen to be made up of large, muscular men in power armour, and even then there are a lot of little details that seperate those facts) and his claim of the setting being inherantly ridiculous is on one hand completely missing the point and on the other based on a rather flimsy premise.
I've already addressed as to why this is missing the point before (everything in Warhammer is taken to almost humourous extremes, of course it's ridiculous, you could argue that it's intentionally ridiculous) but as for why I believe it's a flimsy premise, he argues that the setting is ridiculous based on stuff like it being 'the grim darkness of the future and there is only war' being impossible, that would be fine if it weren't for the fact that most games set in fantasy or sci-fi settings out there have just as (if not even more so) ridiculous aspects to them that we're more often than not willing to let slide.
To form an example from a series that Yahtzee is fond of let's take Half Life 2 (and no, I'm not going to go into detail about how theoretically the Gravity Gun would actually be more of a ball-and-chain than a useful addition to your inventory, I shall save that for another day), I'm just gonna be blunt about something that is mentioned often in Half Life 2 and the episodes, the suppression field. A mysterious 'field/signal' that in some unexplained way not only inhibits our ability to reproduce but also apparantly kills everyone's urge to have sex.
I repeat, we have a mysterious piece of technology who's only sole purpose is to keep people from rocking the Casbah and yet for many people this was completely fine and didn't break their immersion or appreciation of the setting.
If you're gonna be cynical and snarky enough to call out a setting for technicalities like 'why would you bother with super soldiers?' or 'how would endless warfare work anyway?' then surely you'd be facing the same problem with your suspension of disbelief being shattered by every fantastic or outlandish concept or cencept present in the vast genres of Sci-Fi or Fantasy (least of all an anti-fucking field).
Anybody who can't find a niche in the universe, be it the footslogging Imperial Guard, the batshit insanity of the Chaos Legions, the Omnicidal Pubcrawl of the orks really either doesn't quite grasp theres more behind what you just see in games like DoW or more recently Space Marine or are going out of their way to dislike it with strawman arguments. 40,000 years into the future and a million controlled words, they can piss resources up the wall be it in mineral, fuel or manpower because theres plenty more where it came from.
Plenty more reasons and my raging fanboy hardon is demanding i explain very carefully why outright hating it makes you a fool, but the other side of my brain cannot be arsed. So im going to Abandon Thread.
Plenty more reasons and my raging fanboy hardon is demanding i explain very carefully why outright hating it makes you a fool, but the other side of my brain cannot be arsed. So im going to Abandon Thread.