Extra Punctuation: Hating Warhammer 40k and Space Marine

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Abbo

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Jan 20, 2012
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I liked spacemarine as a game, dealing with the bigger hordes of melee orks was fun and hectic on the hardest difficulty level, taking them headon in the bigger waves is suicide as Yathzee said.
Finding ways to weaken them enough in the short time before they force you into melee was half the fun in the game. Trying to avoid the fire line of or killing a shoota boy that deals pretty consistent damage while surrounded by a angry mob was the other half.
Too bad the campaign lasted that short.
Haven't tried online yet.
 

Kahunaburger

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HERESY! PURGE THE THREAD NECROMANCER!

OT: I like how 90% of the people in this thread seem to think that the 40K universe is srs bsns. The universe that features space orcs. That paint their cars red so they can go faster. And it works.
 

Abbo

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Oh crap, this is part of the forums? I thought article replies and the forum were separate.

No, i am aware that the 40k setting is retarded but i love it anyway.... I was more disappointed in him not finding some of the refreshing stuff in the gameplay.... because i did not get the feeling in game that i was dealing with generic shooter #5432. I don't play shooters unless they add something new into the mix (like Vanquisches speed and style)


Spacemarine caught my attention because of the 40k license AND because of the developer being Relic... but only after i tested the demo and liking what i saw i bought it.
Of course the game has it's weaknesses(melee feels really sluggish and does not give a sense of real control) but it actually felt fresh in me finding tactical ways to deal with the really big range fire supported Ork melee waves on hardest.
When the campaign was done i was not happy because i wanted more of the gameplay.
 

TheUnbeholden

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sharpe95th said:
Why are any of your surprised the skinny nerdy man who loves fantasy, wears a stupid hat, and has a pretentious beard doesn't like military fiction?
aside from the fact that Warhammer 40K has about as much in common with real military non-fiction as a child does with it... I can't imagine. Seriously Military fiction can be done well if had some fucking realism.

Von Strimmer said:
This sounded particularly venemous towards WHK40. I dont like any of it either and will ignore it wherever possibly. Bloody hell though that was a harsh review =P.

Also Gears of War 3 is hands down my game of the year so far.
It wasn't even out yet and you call it your 'game of the year'. Thank fuck some of the people around the internet aren't in charge of anything important otherwise the whole fucking human society would come tumbling down.

Jedihunter4 said:
Really disappointed , normally enjoy his stuff, but almost felt some of the comments were plain stupid and even ignorant, how someone can dismiss an entire universe of books, articles, 1000's an 1000's of hours of back ground with out even experiencing even a fraction of it just seems lazy.
Did he say that he didn't experience a fraction of it? Because your jumping to conclusions.. you think his opinion is uninformed? Because theres no way he would fucking talk about the series if he hasn't had a good look at it.
 

Eipok Kruden

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ACman said:
There's no one to side with. Space Marines are battle-crazed fanatics. Chaos is hell. Orks are well... orks. Tyranids are insectoid monsters. Eldar would exterminate mankind without a second thought if they could. Tau are space communists. Imperial Guard are part of the aforementioned fascist theocratic space empire. Cultists are either alien or chaos mad. Necrons are space-undead-robot-gods or some shit.
Well, there's a few flaws with that summary. First, Space Marines are more like Warrior Monks. If anyone are battle-crazed fanatics, it'd be the Khornate Berserkers.

The Orks don't really have any beef with humanity, either. They just smash and loot and WAAAGH!!, but they'll do that to anyone (including themselves), and it's possible even for their interests to align (albeit temporarily) with humanity's.

The Eldar don't have anything against humanity, per se, either. If they were confronted by something like space liberals, they'd get along just fine. All they have a problem with is the Imperium's militaristic, overly dogmatic, and destructive attitude, as well as its propensity for being torn apart from within by Chaos.

The Tau are... Well, yea, space communists. I quite honestly don't see how that's a bad thing, though. They seem to do it pretty damn well. The main issue with communism is that power corrupts, and corrupt people seek power. The role of leader has to be seen as a civil service, something to be done for the people, and for the society as a whole. Historically, that hasn't happened often, and instead corrupt despots and tyrants end up in power. With the Tau, though, the Ethereals seem to be doing a bang-up job, if you ask me.

The Tyranids, of course, are just hive-minded insectoid parasites, but the higher up and more important a form is in the synapse tree, the more individuality it is awarded, with some breeds like genestealers even capable of full autonomy.

As for Chaos... Well, Chaos can come in many varying types and degrees. The most dangerous and unquestionably evil would likely be Khorne, as anything that instills a propensity towards liberating people's skulls from their bodies can be seen as a bad thing by most accounts. The other three Gods can be followed far more peaceably, though. With Slaanesh, it's just about sensation. Say you've got an Imperial businessman who's secretly a Slaaneshi cultist, but all he really does is dedicate his various sensory acts (be it sadomasochistic sex or just the taste of a fine wine) to Slaanesh. With Tzeentch, it's about knowledge, change, and magic. Again, this can be handled in many degrees, and can be relatively harmless, though it does have a tendency to explode and tear apart the fabric of reality... Lastly, of course, is Nurgle, who covers everything from life to death, from mortality and entropy to immortality, from hope to fear, even love and compassion and family values are covered under his vast rusty umbrella.

To be quite honest, I actually see myself as something of a Child of Grandfather Nurgle. He's way better than the God of the Bible, anyway. If I had to have some kind of God, it'd definitely be Nurgle.

I always thought the emperor should be more like a space-pope. Then there could be multiple human kingdoms/federations/confederacies/compacts.

But no, any difference will be purged by a bunch of insane fanatical jihadist. Bah.
Do you really think so lowly of the Emperor? Comparing him to the Pope, of all people? What an insult. Besides that, though, what does the Emperor have to do with anything anyway? He's on the Golden Throne. As far as I can tell, the "God Emperor" is just the Warp-borne manifestation of the collective will of humanity through the Emperor's subconscious. He's not the one calling any of the shots, though. That would be the High Lords of Terra and the Ecclesiarchy.
 

ACman

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Eipok Kruden said:
snippity snip.

Yep. The emperor should be "Space Pope".

Space Marines should be Warrior Knights like the (real life) Templars and Hospitaller. Sworn to fight the threats to humanity not humanity itself. (Though they could and would)

And there should be factions of humanity that act like "Space Europe" so I can have "Space Game of Thrones".
 

ACman

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Let's just say I'd like it to be more like DUNE. With "Great Families" who rule large tracts of Space in "The Name of the Emperor" and have petty territorial squabbles and assassinate each other and so on.
 

theyellowmeteor

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thaluikhain said:
Ouch!

IMHO, he does the backstory a serious injustice. Or, rather, he's missed the opportunity to complain about the really specifically crap bits, rather than just the vague premise.
He only knows the vague premise. He is that uninterested by it.
 

Kiwiphoenix

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Jan 27, 2013
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Well, 40K is a bit childish, but it's meant to be. At least it knows that it's ridiculously, hopelessly over the top, unlike most military media these days. And sometimes one just gets in the mood for a bit of shameless ultraviolence.

I have always thought that 40K's Imperial Guard would make a great basis for a shooter. Something where you play as the squishy, impotent fodder, and face off against the armoured unstoppable killing machine. It'd be a nice change of pace. Instead of loading an old save and getting your character un-killed, you could respawn in-mission by jumping into the body of a different faceless grunt.
A standard mission would see you burn through fifteen different characters, and ultimately all your accomplishments would get passed off to someone else's leadership, and you'd never see the fruits of your own sacrifices. It'd be depressing, unforgiving, and one of the best representations of large-scale field warfare yet seen.
There are flaws with the idea, most notably a total lack of character identification, but really, what's the different between Guardsman ##### and SAS Cpt Generic?
I think it could have the potential to cater both to the howling gun-thumper and coffee-shop philosopher crowds. Make you feel insignificant even while you blow up tanks.
 

Itchi_da_killa

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I totally agree with this article. I'm an ex-player of War Hammer 40k, but I still find myself trying out new iterations of the franchise and only coming to the same conclusions that forced me to evolve passed this setting. It is for a younger audience much like AD&D is, to which I am an ex-player of as well.
 

justinkarrie

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Oct 8, 2013
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Well, I'm surprised, not too many people understand how the dark fantasy works and how it means...even for some who claim to read the rulebook...I thought you Westerners would see through this immediately, unlike an Asian as me...

Warhammer 40K is a dark fantasy, and the Imperium of Man is a future version of "medieval" europe, see the point? It isn't so unified, some people don't like Chaos, but neither do they like IoM, they are in between, and almost inevitably become Chaos-twisted, because of the pressure.
The commissar in IoM explain clear enough of what IoM refers to, or at least part of. You can easily see its connection to Soviet, that's how IoM works, and "how it taught its people", if you are clever enough to see. IoM taught its people to "fight for Imperium glory, and fight for human's survival", doesn't this seem like how society teach us, especially in some autocratic countries?

If you don't believe what I said and think of this as coincidence, then let's look to the rulebooks, anyone who claims to ever look to rulebook read of Armageddon War I, the infamous campaign against Chaos intruders? WHAT HAPPENED, in the end, to those Imperium soldiers, and those who sighted Chaos existence? It was pretty clear how "against-war" 40K stories are, as long as you're clever enough to see it. That's how IoM treat back those who fight for it.

And what would it mean? Let's go back and see the totem of IoM, the Emperor, he seems like a savior, a god, the one who, commoners must serve. But WHAT ABOUT NOW? He's only a body lying on Golden Throne, you thought he was hope, but this hope isn't within reach. IT WASN'T ,and NEVER WILL IT. Instead, look at those who rule IoM for the holy Emperor himself? The High Lords of Terra? The Mechanism? Space Marines? They're only dictators, arm dealers, and warlords, if you're clever enough to see through this. The IoM is DOOMED, DESTINED to. Look at those seemingly-evil race like Chaos or Tyranids, they're TRUE Evils, but if you think on the other hand, IoM is good, then you are wrong, damn wrong. They are craps, an autocratic empire WHO DOESN'T CARE ITS PEOPLE, and TEACH ITS PEOPLE TO DIE FOR A DEAD MAN, who is kind of like Jesus, the one we don't quite believe in modern days, and the IoM as Papal states. You SEE THE POINT? This is AN IRONY, IF YOU'RE CLEVER ENOUGH TO SEE.


There is almost only DESPAIR in WH40K, BECAUSE EITHER WAY, EITHER RACE YOU CHOOSE, IoM is DOOMED, HUMANITY IS DOOMED, Eldar is DOOMED, THE GOOD FORCES ARE DOOMED, the only one, who are more positive, is Tau, and their TERRITORY IS SMALL, and it's UNLIKELY they can develop FAST ENOUGH TO STOP THE EVIL, not to mention that they disdain Warp tech, which is pretty important in Galaxy.


So there is ONLY DESPAIR, ONLY WAR, ONLY DOOM, that is coming, AND YOU WON'T GET REDEEMED HOWEVER HARD YOU TRY. It's the European in 80s which create this, you can see it from the atmosphere of the decade; it's the dark history of Western civilization, or even to whole human history, which should be apparent if, any of those who complained, have learned a good history.


So that's how warhammer players feel, you PLAY IN A WAR GAME, and you learn from it, LEARN THAT WAR IS EVEN HARSHER THAN ANYONE THOUGHT, learn that WHAT WE THOUGHT WOULD BE TRUE, MAY BE ONLY LIES THAT GOVERNMENT TOLD US, just as what Nazist told its people. Which games you guys play don't kill anyone nor any monster? Very few, but that's not something you would learn from, because you never look into how harsh war is, because you never think of how the terrible thoghts were implemented into your mind, because you kill and think of it as normal(in game), BECAUSE YOU ONLY AVOIDED FACING IT.

That's how we( or at least I, I'm really surprised that few in this forum thought of these) play warhammer 40000, we PLAY IN WAR, and we DISDAIN WAR.