Reminds me of that act in MGS4 where you return to Shadow Moses. It had actually been maybe 12 years since I last played MGS, and going back and seeing all the same areas was an extremely nostalgic trip for me.
Extra Punctuation: How Yakuza 4 Grabs You
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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It's what DA2 has tried to do. Unfortunately, no backwards glance is required in Kirkwall when the entire city and everything in it doesn't change one bit over the course of 7 years. For me, it stopped being familiar and started being stifling.
But I appreciate what they wanted to do, and I love it when games get it right. The Suikoden games always feature a home fortress from where you spread your rebellion, and it evolves throughout the game, shops opening, character moving in, dancing shows and cooking contests being organized for the inhabitants, your barracks, your troops, the war room, the rooms of your allies and friends... All growing and becoming more sophisticated as you transform from a guerilla rebel into a liberation army leader.
Please, more of that. That was awesome.
But I appreciate what they wanted to do, and I love it when games get it right. The Suikoden games always feature a home fortress from where you spread your rebellion, and it evolves throughout the game, shops opening, character moving in, dancing shows and cooking contests being organized for the inhabitants, your barracks, your troops, the war room, the rooms of your allies and friends... All growing and becoming more sophisticated as you transform from a guerilla rebel into a liberation army leader.
Please, more of that. That was awesome.
I like that with God Of War. Every game has like 6 main locations, where you keep coming back with new stuff, moves, keys and the like.
I have to agree with this. While ultimately it wasn't entirely successful, I really do appreciate what DA2 tried to do in this respect.Seneschal said:
How do you say "This never leaves the cave" in Japanese?fanklok said:
I was just coming here to mention this; ME2 did this masterfully. Even more heartwrenching than the panicky scramble through the attacked Normandy controlling a barely-functional Joker, was the horribly-empty ship you were forced to travel around in after the attack, and woe-betide you if you didn't have all the upgrades yet.Khushal said:
I remember in Perfect Dark 64 you could at any point in the game wander around your home base of Carrington Institute, saying "hi" to your co-workers and testing out the equipment. And then in one of the later levels within the game the Institute comes under attack and you have to drive the enemy out, protecting the scientists and helping your fellow agents. It was always my favourite mission, and for a similar reason to what this article pointed out.The Article said:
Oh god, I remember that. The Normandy felt so empty, it was actually creepy. With no Kelly Chambers to say "sir, there's been a new message at your private terminal", no Mess Sergeant Gardner, neither of the two engineers... I felt the loss then more than I did when it was happening. Same with Kaiden/Ashley in the original - after the actual event (you know the one I mean), what really got me was the conspicuous lack of checking for their skill upgrades, giving them new armour etc. The game really made me feel like I'd lost something.Optimystic said:
So this is Yahtzee's little game storytelling nugget of the day, chaps. If your game is a linear succession of locations with nary a backward glance then the most you can do is make the player go "Ooh, that's pretty."
Annnnd there's the big issue with FFXIII (to me)
/oldnews
Agreed. And that's not the only bit too. After ahving played ME1 thrice, I had gotten rather attached to her. Needless to say I was pretty fucking upset at the beginning of the game.Optimystic said:
There was a similar bit in Dragon Age:Origins where your safe camp gets attacked. But the altercation was so brief and abrupt, it doesn't really leave any thing even remotely resembling a scar..... right shame too.
Wait, I don't get it. Is this a complaint that Kamurocho is the same? If it's supposed to be a persistent city district in the game world, I wouldn't expect it to change, except for superficially. It should have the same layout, many of the same buildings and locations. Why wouldn't you want it to? I'm not sure how much time has passed between Yakuza 1 and 4, having only played Yakuza 3, but your comment seems to go against what I would expect from a game set in a consistent, persistent world.Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Am I reading you wrong here?
For a quick 'nugget' that was very informative, and I completely agree. The half-life example resonates with me especially; that brilliant opening chapter was ALL about putting those places in your mind and humanising them so that when the resonance-cascade did blow everything to buggery, you were all like, "Shit! That npc said 'Good morning, Dr Freeman' and now he's being ripped apart by eldritch creatures! Fuck!"
However, one caveat. Some lazy game designers take this 'revisiting areas is fun!' idea too far, or too literally, and have you backtrack through a linear level, (where things have slightly changed [usually through the addition of harder enemies]) to achieve some random extra objective, often with a time-limit attached. Example: every level of every halo game ever, but mostly the first one. This is not fun. It is the opposite of fun.
However, one caveat. Some lazy game designers take this 'revisiting areas is fun!' idea too far, or too literally, and have you backtrack through a linear level, (where things have slightly changed [usually through the addition of harder enemies]) to achieve some random extra objective, often with a time-limit attached. Example: every level of every halo game ever, but mostly the first one. This is not fun. It is the opposite of fun.
I'm glad you brought up what I consider the main redeeming aspect of Silent Hill 4. Game had a lot of issues but I can forgive it because it offered horror in a new and intriguing way. As someone who's experienced first hand how one's home can go from a place of mental and emotional safety to a place of mental and emotional entrapment (even without supernatural locks and chains!) this element of the game really, really struck a cord with me.
Another good example of this narrative structure was the original Tomb Raider, in a way that no one has really gotten right again. Almost every area had essentially an unofficial hub area that you'd be returning to for most of the stage. And even after you finished that particular area you'd find yourself winding your way there again from another direction later on (usually just passing through)! This is probably why I remember the areas in Tomb Raider (and to a certain extent TR2 as well) much better than I do any other game in the franchise. They become sort of characters in their own right.
This is something that's happened a few times in games that I honestly didn't even really think about consciously until now. In Metal Gear Solid when empty hallways were changed or suddenly riddled with bodyparts, in Homeworld when the scaffold was destroyed and Kharak was a giant glass crater, or in World in Conflict when Seattle is in complete ruin at the end, those were very effective moments. They said a lot more with a visceral image than you could with ten pages of annoying text.
We don't necessarily need to go to Waiting for Godot extremes, but thinking of locations or objects as being alive can be a very powerful gaming mechanic.
We don't necessarily need to go to Waiting for Godot extremes, but thinking of locations or objects as being alive can be a very powerful gaming mechanic.