Why aren't game developers paying you bucket loads of money to come up with simple ideas? And why are you just throwing them out for free?
Extra Punctuation: New Team Fortress 2 Classes
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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If balance were the only factor to a fun game, then you would all be playing TF2 with just a single class, it would be the most balanced game in existence, and u'd be hard pressed to find some1 to play it.Not G. Ivingname said:
Sometimes, sacrificing a bit of balance to add depth, variety, flavor, and by extension longer-lasting entertainment is well worth it. A game designer that can expand the cast while keeping balance stable is tons better at his job than one that just makes a handful and leaves it like that.
Team Fortress 2 is way better than Brink, because in TF2 I can buy all my items, in stead of having to earn them by actually playing the game :')
Even though I didn't like Brink, I didn't have a problem with unlocking stuff. For appearance, I mostly sticked with a skull face painting, sleevles shirt w/ a jacket and jeans look (Resistance). That is until I finally unlocked the hoodie and clown face paint, I decided to not cahnge it anymore. The abilities, I just went with most of the ones for Soilder since that was the best class in my gaming experience. And for the guns, I only hated that most of the upgrades can only be unlocked by playing single player. So what is the point for adding multiplayer for challenges?
The part where he talks about the classes were humorous choices. I would choice the Propagenda Artist because it's almost similar to Bioshock 2's multiplayer and I remember how I would always take pictures of my falling victims to get better kills.
The part where he talks about the classes were humorous choices. I would choice the Propagenda Artist because it's almost similar to Bioshock 2's multiplayer and I remember how I would always take pictures of my falling victims to get better kills.
The prpopaganda artist would really work actually. Give players a camera, have them take snapshots of specific situations (a friendly sniper after a succesfull kill, a dead enemy, a captured point) or put grafiti in specific places(the enemy's spawn) and give bonuses (damage boost, an extra wave of npc's, slower enemy respawn...). I'd actually play that.
I wouldn't mind civilian for VIP maps, and some class that can build cover. I actually like the propaganda artist idea where morale boosts/losses would affect damage done.
And of course the tiger. Which would be awesome.
And of course the tiger. Which would be awesome.
While it was all pretty silly, that propaganda artist idea is rather brilliant. I wouldn't mind seeing a support class like that in a game.
I'm going to to go ahead and deliberately take these suggestions at face value. The Propaganda artist and Counselor COULD work, if "morale" counts as a temporary boost in strength and/or endurance. The pilot, instead of instantly beating the other time, could only be taken down by a sniper, or solider, or someone with a really powerful long-range weapon. The tiger could also be cool.
The Crime Scene Investigator, however, I don't see him fitting into this game at all.
The Crime Scene Investigator, however, I don't see him fitting into this game at all.
Eh. I was kind of hoping for some elaboration on the thoughts in the review. I realize these are intentionally absurd, but I don't think Brink's issues stem from its artifice that reminds one of TF2; it's in some of the balance and design decisions that could have used some more consideration. Overall I've enjoyed my time with the game. It's a shooter that offers something different than the other options on the market. And honestly TF2 feels completely different to me. It also feels less friendly to newcomers since there's no real matchmaking system from what I remember. You have to go find a server and hope you're welcome. I never quite figured out where I was supposed to play in that game and as such, stuck to a few "newbie-only" servers. Brink is actually a lot more approachable in that sense.
.Yahtzee said:
Fewer.
If you're going to boldface a word, Yahtzee, make sure it's the correct fucking word.
Sincerely,
The Propaganda Grammar Tiger Nazi
There's a good reason why they don't implement new TF2 classes, and I'm sure I don't need to tell the probably good Mr. Croshaw why. For the rest of you, the reason is game balance. However, I've thought of a few suggestions that could be added without excessive need to re-balance the game:
The Guard Dog - Remember that fake update [http://guarddog.50webs.com/] some guy made where a guard dog was the new tenth class? Yeah, IMPLEMENT THAT THING.
The Frogman - This is one I thought up a while ago. Water is one of those environmental hazards TF2 has kind of pushed to the side. Think of the water pool/sewer area at 2Fort or those small ponds at Sawmill. My suggestion is simple; make a class that excels at aquatic combat. His weapons could be things like spear guns, a flensing knife (a knife used to cut blubber off whales), a pistol and of course some unlockables. His special ability would be not drowning underwater and increased swim speed. Frogman's inclusion as a new class could inspire new levels with water-based alternate routes.
The Guard Dog - Remember that fake update [http://guarddog.50webs.com/] some guy made where a guard dog was the new tenth class? Yeah, IMPLEMENT THAT THING.
The Frogman - This is one I thought up a while ago. Water is one of those environmental hazards TF2 has kind of pushed to the side. Think of the water pool/sewer area at 2Fort or those small ponds at Sawmill. My suggestion is simple; make a class that excels at aquatic combat. His weapons could be things like spear guns, a flensing knife (a knife used to cut blubber off whales), a pistol and of course some unlockables. His special ability would be not drowning underwater and increased swim speed. Frogman's inclusion as a new class could inspire new levels with water-based alternate routes.
Cue the lost souls that don't get satire.
I have to say tho, while reading over the first few classes I thought about how they would change pacing and then continued to think I don't remember any sort of slow-paced multiplayer for relaxing, aside from a few rare exceptions like Minecraft.
Was incidentally remembered how I used to play Worms yeeaaaars ago with custom settings and instead of bombing other worms into the ground I decided to build an underground cave system with drills and construction beams and even a torture pit I filled with mines and gladly triggered with a worm or two once I got bored and wanted to end the map. Was fun to imagine a little underground ant colony errr I mean worm colony and play a bit architect in a game where this was definitely not what you're supposed to do.
So anyway:
Successful, relaxing, slow-paced, and yet fun multiplayer. Possible? Lotsa big games these days are either Nintendo rereleases or involve competitive combat in some way.
First of all, you'd need to re-balance the game most definitely if you add something massive like a new class that carries a completely new style of gameplay, new weapons and changes fights and chokepoints on every single map.
Guard Dog
I'm not sure why I'm so much against a frikkin Dog among 9 mercenaries, but he just doesn't fit in any way for me. And of course, it would lead to an outcry of new animals getting added. I don't like the graphical design either, but that's personal preference. Gameplay-wise, if I remember correctly, its main use is to support the team by picking up thing etc.
That was originally the Scout's role, hence the bag on his back. Valve probably cut the ability for good reasons.
Frogman
Would probably be about as useful as Aquaman: Not. Maps with water are exceedingly rare and it's even rarer to engage in actual combat there. Thus all current maps would need to be changed drastically, especially considering most of them take place in a desert, so that Frogman would stand a chance against other classes.
You would need to twist the whole game and all its maps for a class whose purpose isn't even defined. If you don't need to add a certain class because there's an opportunity none of the other classes currently fulfill and you can't think of a good reason why it's fun enough to play to make up for the work (and 'playing in water' isn't an excuse good enough), then you shouldn't fix what isn't broken.
In fact, if anything's broken in TF2 (in my opinion), it's the Community Contributions both in respect of QA (artstyle/flanderization in some cases, especially hats, and boring and uncreative "+stat1, -stat2" stats that were very obviously quickly made up AFTER deciding on a pretty model) and future possibilities. With Valve's original updates, you always had an idea first and then you made a model around it. Community Contributions make variants on currently existing weapons, i.e. another rocket launcher, another buff banner, another Medigun, another minigun.
In my opinion the best TF2 unlocks are those where the idea came first and the model came last, like with the Wrangler that changed some maps completely.
I'm all for adding new stuff as long as TF2 doesn't get bloated, but the QA before the Mannconomy was definitely better IMO.
I have to say tho, while reading over the first few classes I thought about how they would change pacing and then continued to think I don't remember any sort of slow-paced multiplayer for relaxing, aside from a few rare exceptions like Minecraft.
Was incidentally remembered how I used to play Worms yeeaaaars ago with custom settings and instead of bombing other worms into the ground I decided to build an underground cave system with drills and construction beams and even a torture pit I filled with mines and gladly triggered with a worm or two once I got bored and wanted to end the map. Was fun to imagine a little underground ant colony errr I mean worm colony and play a bit architect in a game where this was definitely not what you're supposed to do.
So anyway:
Successful, relaxing, slow-paced, and yet fun multiplayer. Possible? Lotsa big games these days are either Nintendo rereleases or involve competitive combat in some way.
Not sure if serious...The Great JT said:
First of all, you'd need to re-balance the game most definitely if you add something massive like a new class that carries a completely new style of gameplay, new weapons and changes fights and chokepoints on every single map.
Guard Dog
I'm not sure why I'm so much against a frikkin Dog among 9 mercenaries, but he just doesn't fit in any way for me. And of course, it would lead to an outcry of new animals getting added. I don't like the graphical design either, but that's personal preference. Gameplay-wise, if I remember correctly, its main use is to support the team by picking up thing etc.
That was originally the Scout's role, hence the bag on his back. Valve probably cut the ability for good reasons.
Frogman
Would probably be about as useful as Aquaman: Not. Maps with water are exceedingly rare and it's even rarer to engage in actual combat there. Thus all current maps would need to be changed drastically, especially considering most of them take place in a desert, so that Frogman would stand a chance against other classes.
You would need to twist the whole game and all its maps for a class whose purpose isn't even defined. If you don't need to add a certain class because there's an opportunity none of the other classes currently fulfill and you can't think of a good reason why it's fun enough to play to make up for the work (and 'playing in water' isn't an excuse good enough), then you shouldn't fix what isn't broken.
In fact, if anything's broken in TF2 (in my opinion), it's the Community Contributions both in respect of QA (artstyle/flanderization in some cases, especially hats, and boring and uncreative "+stat1, -stat2" stats that were very obviously quickly made up AFTER deciding on a pretty model) and future possibilities. With Valve's original updates, you always had an idea first and then you made a model around it. Community Contributions make variants on currently existing weapons, i.e. another rocket launcher, another buff banner, another Medigun, another minigun.
In my opinion the best TF2 unlocks are those where the idea came first and the model came last, like with the Wrangler that changed some maps completely.
I'm all for adding new stuff as long as TF2 doesn't get bloated, but the QA before the Mannconomy was definitely better IMO.
Sir, you need to play dwarf fortress. It's pretty much that, except with more stuff and in 3 dimensions. (Not the graphics, the world). I highly reccomend using this pack to get started, [http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59026.0] as it comes with some graphics packs that can be installed with the click of a button.Marik Bentusi said: