I reckon Yahtzee got it right in terms of specialisation. I like a bit of combat too, but there were too many times where I wanted to go through an area unnoticed but felt forced to go loud. And it became really tedious waiting for all the guard patterns to align so I could scramble two meters to the next crate/desk/vending machine/dumpster. On top of that, I ended up getting almost all the augmentations by the end of the game. This was completely useless by the way...
SPOILER ALERT...
...because the the game devolved into a brainless zombie shooter that forced you unload ammo on crazed but hapless augmented souls. Stupid. Then I got to press one of two buttons and the game was over. F**k that.
I did enjoy much of the game, but I never loved it. Still, I only paid $56 Australian for it, and just traded it in for $63 so KA-CHING for me!
Indeed. I don't mind the boss fights being there, annoying as they are. I would have prefered a viable stealth hacker pacifist option to defeat them. What really bugged me is that there was no characterisation to the bosses, they are just bad guys. It is the biggest sticking point of the game for me.
I would like to add my own bugbear. Why is an early model augmented human so much superior to Anna and Gunther two second or third generation top of the line military augs?
Oh and on Point 5, are you sure you pressed the right button?
I disagree with most of what Yahtzee said, unfortunately:
1) Why does it matter who the 'bosses' are? You know who they are, actually, but why in the world would you care if they were given backgrounds? After all, it's you guys that insist on calling them 'bosses' in the first place! I don't think of them as bosses- I think of them as challenges thrown in your way when you reach junctures that the real boss
the conspiracy and the constituent conspirators
deems critical. Stop thinking of them as 'bosses' and think of them as just obstacles and it makes a whole lot more sense.
2) Okay, I can kind of see a lack of melee weapons as being a little goofy. Maybe they should've included at least a military-issue baton, but I understand the idea behind the design decision-- Jensen is his own melee weapon. And if the major reason you disliked the lack of a melee weapon is because you couldn't break boxes, well... wow. Way to nitpick.
3) I understand that they probably overdid it with the number Praxis kits you get, but you know you could feel free to skip the ones you can buy, right? Nobody is FORCING you to take those. And even if you have a bunch of other abilities, you don't have to use them.
Oh, and in regards to the weapon specialization thing... did you miss the bit where Jensen was former SWAT? Pretty sure those guys get trained in most of the weapons available... well, maybe not rocket launchers, but still...
4) This is the only thing I sort of agree with Yahtzee on, the implementation of the various ending could've been implemented much more elegantly. For instance, if you pissed somebody off earlier in the game, the option involving that character would not be available to you. Still, I understand that they wanted to leave the player all choices so they wouldn't feel like they had been tricked and get angry.
svenjl said:
Then I got to press one of two buttons and the game was over. F**k that.
Wait, one of TWO buttons? Really? Because I had four I could choose from. Hmm... maybe what I suggested was really going on, but it was too subtle to notice.
---
I think the biggest problem with DX:HR is the expectations of the player. Regardless of its heritage, it isn't DX, and it doesn't really try to be. It isn't DX:IW, either, and it doesn't try to be. And it certainly isn't following the lead of any of the current 'popular' games, else they would've gotten rid of the inventory system, the deep storyline, the ability to play the entire game by stealthing, etc, etc.
It simply is Deus Ex : Human Revolution. The moment you stop comparing it to other games- new or old- and think about the experience it is presenting you, you will be amazed as how good of a game it really is.
All valid points. And there are more problems, such as the game being too fucking short.
Finished it three times, two of those times on Give me Deus Ex doing a stealthy non-lethal run with all sidequests. In this case "all" means what few there are (yeah, I checked to see I really got all of them). Tried for Pacifist but especially the second time around some stun gun/tranq rifle glitch where it kills the target instead of knocking them out probably screwed me over.
Each run took me around 20 hours (lethal run went faster but I also stealthed some, and I spent a bit more time looking for Praxis kits and the goddamn Hugh Darrow eBooks that sometimes are fucking well hidden).
But damn, overall it's still so great I love it and regret I didn't get the Collector's Edition.
After my second DX:HR run I did a DX1 playthrough again, went stealthy non-lethal on Realistic there too (for about half of the game, just got too goddamn frustrating when Stanton Dowd bugged out and I had to get through tons of enemies to the Ton to zone out and back in to reset him), which pointed out a few good points DX:HR does better than the first game. Such as...
- a stealth system. Not just one that fucking works, any at all. You can sit in the deepest darkest shadow EVER 100 yards from an enemy, crouching, if they stare at you for a second they gonna see you.
- small thing but loved it, you can actually see the weapon mods change the weapons.
- the soundtrack was better. Yes, better! Loved DX1 but compared to the DX:HR soundtrack it really shows its age (except the theme, that's still awesome)
- yeah, a shallow point but ... the graphics. Comparing them as to how good their graphics look compared to other games coming out around the same time DX:HR wins. Yeah, it's no Crysis but I think it looks good enough it will hold up better than DX1. DX1 looked horrible even at release.
In some points they are about equal, as in
- the main character. I care about JCD and AJ both. They are both damn cool guys. On the other hand, who the fuck is Alex Denton in IW and why should I care?
- I care about the damn characters.
I hate Taggart.
I grudgingly like Sarif even though he seems to lack a moral compass for the most part. I grew to like Pritchard even though he was a dick in the beginning.
I liked Megan at first but could have throttled her later on (also, why the hell couldn't she just tell Adam right away that she found something awesome in his DNA? woulda been better than how he found out). And so on.
Just as I liked Carter, Jayme, Nicolette, Paul Denton etc. in DX1.
How I had mixed feelings about Gunther and Anna (didn't hate them at first but when they, well, went on wanting to kill me... yeah...).
Disliked/Hated Bob Page, Walton Simons as is proper for the evil guys.
Both Tongs rocked for their times/games.
On the other hand, Invisible War ... who the hell are those people and why should I care one way or another?
- the overall story
- the freedom. Oh the goddamn freedom. Every DX:HR run I found more ways to access mission objectives, get in/out that I had missed the previous run. Pretty sure I'm gonna find still more during my next run (probably when the DLC is released). Same thing happened in DX1 on this recent run. Hadn't played it for years but I still remembered most of it but still discovered areas/ways I had never seen before.
Overall I really, really, really love DX:HR. Yeah, it's not a perfect successor, it messes some things up - Yatzhee's points all hit home -, it does some things better than the original. It and DX:HR blow Invisible War out of the fucking water (started replaying it for the story, it really, really sucks).
DX:HR is one of my most satisfying game purchases in recent years. And seeing how they really tried to - and to a large degree succeeded - make a valid successor to DX1, listened to player criticism of IW etc. I really hope and believe that the next Deus Ex they make will take the good points from HR and DX1 and fix the bad points and add some other great stuff.
I look forward to more Deux Ex games again, after Invisible War I dreaded those.
On one thing i disagreed with Yahtzee, to me, Deus Ex has aged amazingly well.
Decade from launch, and i can still install it on my computer, and play it with same amount of enjoyment i did ten years ago (well, some frustration with having to fiddle with it to make it run on windows 7 and widescreen, but other than that, awesome all the way), sure, i know the story and most, if not all, of the secrets, but gameplay still stands on it's own, story is still good and characters are relatable, all the things i want from a game are there.
There are very few games i can say that about.
You can't objectively say something has aged well when your vision is coloured with nostalgia. A true test for aging is putting it into the hands of a completely new player and seeing how it holds up to them. If they can make concessions for the graphics being outdated and genuinely still find the game fun, then you can say it has aged well.
I rest my case.
Anyway, everyone i know who has played Deus Ex, has enjoyed it, usually despite the graphics, wich were never something to brag about, but still.
The boss fights themselves were terrible. They have zero personality or character development, you're given zero warning that they're nearing (except before the second boss, where there's a heavy rifle and a buttload of ammo right in front of the door) and there's really only 1 way to beat them. Pound them into submission
The lack of character building feels the worst to me, because everything else in the game is a freaking monument to proper characterization. Take, for instance, your apartment: the only food on display is cereal, Campbell's soup and beer (and condiments.) There's a toaster and a coffee maker. Dishes are all just piled up on the counter, or in the box from whenever you moved in. At his desk we have walls covered in hand-written notes, schematics, designs, etc. All the pictures are in a cardboard box in a corner. Plus, there's that whole secret compartment with a gun, ammo and armor piercing upgrade.
They never have to tell you a word about Adam, because you know, just by visiting his apartment, all you need to know about him
Likewise, the Sarrif Industries Plant (first mission) and the Picus offices give you all the info you need. Cluttered desks, spilled coffee, chairs pushed away ... whatever happened in these places, the worker bees got up and left in a HURRY.
But the bosses. Nothing. Nothing at ALL. The only minor hint of any story is a voice-over (the shit they didn't resort to ANYWHERE ELSE in this game) during the second boss fight.
W.T.F
Oh, and:
2: you've got cyborg arm capable of punching through brick walls and juggling dumpsters. I don't think a Tonfa will be much help at this point.
3: Partly a function of the crappy crappy boss fight mechanics. If I could have used stealth or hacking or Social Savvy to beat the bosses, I wouldn't have dropped a single point into the aim or recoil reduction or armor or typhoon.
4: See the rant above. The devs proved they could tell a great story without resorting to "words words words," and fell on their faces at the end. Kinda feels like the game ran up against a deadline and had to work the last few bits ASAP. Would have been cool to travel around Detroit or Hengsha after the end, so that you could see the results of your decisions. More augmented people walking around, or none. Maybe give David some speech options to congratulate or chide your decision. Likewise Taggart. And a super-quick cut-to-black and roll credits for the 4th option.
I'm trying to enjoy this game. I really am. I heard so many good things, and it seems right up my alley.
... But Yahtzee NAILED how I'm playing. I was convinced I was going to be stealthy and non-lethal if possible... yet I couldn't aim the tranquiler gun well at all, got spotted, and found killing was just so much easier and less time consuming (and, let's face it, the load times when you die are painfully long...)
It just feels very dispirited. Not a lot of humor. The combat is awkward to me. The graphics are just decent (why does every character move around like they have ants in their underwear?).
I don't know; I was just led to expect more.
So far, I've enjoyed Alice: Madness Returns and Shadows of the Damned FAR more than HR.
Oh, and one final gripe: Energy bar. The fact that you only regen one makes it 100% worthless to ever buy more than the default 2. If you need to stealth for a really long time, but pause and chow down a protein bar every 7 seconds.
I can see how full energy regen might be game breaking, but what about two? Is that too much? Just enough to maybe stealth, sneak up and take someone out. Or perhaps throw a vending machine at guard #1 and take-down #2.
Also, final final gripe: The other reason for #3 is the railroaded XP system. Many people default to stealth-pacifist-hackers because it simply awards the most XP. Killing someone is 10 XP. A pacifist takedown is 50, and doing so stealthily allows you to wait for your energy to regen before rinse and repeat. No brainer. And once you've been down that path for a nice long while and are feeling quite specialized: Boom, horrible boss fight forces you into very unfamiliar territory, and people start exploring ways to make those less painful.
As for arms and legs. those are just fun. Who doesn't love juggling dumpsters and jumping over buses?
I'm trying to enjoy this game. I really am. I heard so many good things, and it seems right up my alley.
... But Yahtzee NAILED how I'm playing. I was convinced I was going to be stealthy and non-lethal if possible... yet I couldn't aim the tranquiler gun well at all, got spotted, and found killing was just so much easier and less time consuming (and, let's face it, the load times when you die are painfully long...)
It just feels very dispirited. Not a lot of humor. The combat is awkward to me. The graphics are just decent (why does every character move around like they have ants in their underwear?).
I don't know; I was just led to expect more.
So far, I've enjoyed Alice: Madness Returns and Shadows of the Damned FAR more than HR.
Quick pointers, the Traq rifle shoots in an arc. Aim above your target (you'll notice little notches in the scope below the center cross hairs to help gauge distance)
Oh, and that reminds of my final final final gripe. For all their railroading into the pacifist method for XP reasons, they've made pacifist weapons stupidly awkward. The stun gun has a range shorter than Adam's ... takedown reach. And the tranq rifle is a ***** to aim. Plus ammo for either one is hard to come by and expensive. Meanwhile I'm practically swimming in bullets.
I started a new game and said "fuck it, kill em all" with an Armor piercing 10mm sporting a laser sight. The difficulty level is beyond easy. I cranked it up to hard mode and it's still 10x easier than my original pacifist run through on normal difficulty.
1. regarding the bosses - i honestly thought that yahtzee wouldn't be bothered by the bosses in HR - i mean you ***** about games these days being too easy and holding our hands throughout the entire experience - trying to take down those bastard bosses with a stealth based character on hard mode sure as hell kicks some difficulty back into the game.
2. while the omission of melee weapons is definitely a little odd and jarring at first, they definitely wouldn't fit in with the games health model - you regenerate health but your health bar is shorter than a mosquitoes eyelash, running at someone wielding a table leg is gonna make you dead in 2 seconds flat and im fine with that. also, i quickly learned that boxes and crates contain absolutely jack, so bashing them with melee weapons isn't necassery nor is wasting the ammo.
3. the lack of specialization is definitely something of an issue, but at least for the first 2/3s of the game you can be pretty specialised if you want to, only becoming a demi-god towards the end, like most rpg/action titles these days. i think the games lore generally tries to cover up for this - explaining how all of jensens augments are already inside of him they just haven't switched on yet - so it kind of makes sense that they all come on eventually
4. dragging my heels a bit with this game, about 80 hours+ gameplay and im only now on a playthrough where im determined to actually reach the end ...
Wait a second, wait a second. FPSs phasing out melee weapons? I'd say it's the other way around. Remember the brass knuckles in Doom? You have to stand around whacking at a guy for five whole minutes before he goes down. The chainsaw was better but still not an instant kill.
Every Call of Duty game, every Battlefield game, every Halo game, every Resistance game, etc.? Everyone around you can take 10 or 15 bullets and shrug it off, but a single knife and/or riflebutt to the toe? Instant kill.
"Watch me blow your mind as I accurately describe the character most of you played in Human Revolution: a bloke who started out with the intention of doing a stealthy run but had to start carrying proper guns after a few hairy moments, who by the end of the game was also an expert hacker with very good arm strength and the ability to jump over buses."
It's idiotic that the same energy that makes the bloke invisible gets depleted whenever he punches somebody in the face.
By the same logic, he would need to consume roughly four 12-piece KFC buckets whenever he runs up some stairs.
It's idiotic that the same energy that makes the bloke invisible gets depleted whenever he punches somebody in the face.
By the same logic, he would need to consume roughly four 12-piece KFC buckets whenever he runs up some stairs.
No it isn't. Paul was born in 2018. and JC is his clone. They literally don't share any lineage with Adam, unless they plan to fuck up the cannon. Adam's DNA would be used to make No-Poz unnecessary for other mechs.
Also, IIRC, there's an e-mail from Nicolette DuClare in Picus which doesn't make sense since she was 17 in the original.
This just proves what I've thought for ages. Yahtzee qualifies his dislike by first pointing out that "THIS WAS WRONG AND THIS WAS WRONG ABOUT THE ORIGINAL GAME" in his review then plops out a variety of reasons why the new game sucks. Yahtzee, you lost me man. You completely lost me. None of your wit has remained. Also, drop the product placement.
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