Extra Punctuation: Why Regenerating Health Sucks

[Bloodstain]

Metal gear solid 3's system has always stuck out to me as the best. it's a semi-permanent/permanent bar that you regenerate by eating animals you have to hunt. It adds a huge depth to an otherwise necessary feature, different animals have different effects and the side quest of hunting becomes something comfortably methodical. I liked how when I was in a down time during the game I'd suddenly go "Right! Let's go get some tasty frogs for later!" and spend some time hunting delicious snacks. Then, after an intense boss fight I'd have a little picnic over his body while pulling out bullets with a knife.

God I loved MGS3...

That's what I was going to say. Although, if I remember right, you don't actually heal yourself with food, you restore stamina. You have a very slight, but constant health regen that stops when your stamina is low. And I liked how you could heal yourself a bit by treating your wounds. Great game.

EDIT: Halo: Combat Evolved also had a great health system.

 

[brinvixen]

I like what Yahtzee had to say here. I don't play many games with regenerating health systems (I've only played Halo once or twice)

can't say Halo would be the best example for you to be saying, well okay Halo 2 and 3
the first game and Reach had a health bar with a recharging shield (altho they are weaker in these games)

if you haven't played Call of Duty, that's where it's completely all about recharging health. screen turns reddish/bloody...wait a bit and it goes away (oh and Gears of War) haha...at least it keeps the action going idk

I'm not really into the God of War genre, but I remember the X-Men Origins: Wolverine game that's the only game where super fast regeneration truly fit hahahaa

I've played a bit of CoD as well, so I know about the "reddish/bloody" screen you're talking about. To be honest, I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea of regenerating health, I just think that more often that not, people wait around (in hiding) for their health to come back, as opposed to moving forward, and that could slow up the action. At least, that's my first response whenever I play those kinds of games.

Then again, since I don't play many FPS games often, I guess the RH issue doesn't really affect me. I could just understand where Yahtzee was coming from in his article =P

 

[Magnejamed90]

How's this for an idea?

Let's say you're one of these Space Marines that are so common today in gaming. What if the health bar was replaced by the remaining condition of the power armor that you're wearing/piloting? Once the levels of the armor reach critical levels, you have to leave the power armor suit to make some frantic repairs to it. During this time, one shot from an enemy is enough to splatter you like the soft little organic human you really are without your armor.

This provides a health bar in a sense, but retains the realism that is essentially if you get shot you become incapacitated

 

[Animyr]

Funny he should mention it, when playing CoD I sometimes imagine it's luck, not health. And strawberry jam is a curse.

But seriously, while I think regen is overused, I think it's as valid as anything else. Sure, it means you only have to worry about the short term, but it also means you can't ever overextend yourself to far. There's no bailout like there is with healthkits.

 

[re1wind]

Regenerating health done well: tf2's medic (affected by equiped weapons)

Good thread. <3

I'm particularly fond of L4D's system [incapacitation, 3 strikes, temporary health, 1-use medkits, etc.], but that its situational setting may not lend itself well to other areas. temporary health, as a polar opposite of regenerating health, is something that i would like to see more more of, albeit done and implimented sensibly.

Borderlands is another game who's health [and shield] system i approve of:
Instant-heal Healthkits, heal-over-time healthkits, Health by station, Health by murder(all kinds), regenerating health, health by friendly fire, AND incapacitation. Most of these are abilities or special items, but each of these have their own situations in which they are the most useful.

AVP (not fiasco avp3) did this too, where marines had fixed health with healthkits, aliens had health-by-murder, and predators had health-by-conversion-from-energy.

insta-heal kits are dropped by enemies or used when bought from stations.
heal-over-tim kits are manually used from inventory and wern't as useful as they lacked a hotkey.
Health by station were the medical vending machines where you could buy both instaheal and heal-over-time kits.
various class mods allowed for continuous personal and/or team health regeneration.
Various class skills allowed for health regeneration on murder [i.e. mordecai's bird]
And when your health reached zero, then you didn't die/respawn, but stayed in the hot zone as an incapacitated target with the chance to get out of this state by killing an enemy, or by being revived.

By far the most comprehensive health system i've seen, and i like it. Of course, you could never "die", you were always just respawned at the last proximity-activated checkpoint.

It barely had a corridor in sight, free-roam levelling fps, and some incentive to explore, not for health, but for guns 'n mods.

In a way it returns to the earlier games of exploring an area, and then having to find the key for the appropriate door, except instead of looking for armour/health, you search for weapon boxes/ammo/money.

The only thing that Borderlands actually doesn't have is overhealing, and overshield/armour, something which i fondly remember with a hint of nostalgia from the quake2->ut2k4 era. Except when you encountered a guy with health/armour well into in the tripple digit range.

 

[Eric Scheeler]

I liked the halo reach health system. You had regenerating shields so that you don't have to stay behind a rock and take pot shots at the enemy but you also had health so getting hurt badly didn't lose meaning so you can still have those near death experiences.

 

[Henry921]

Regenerating health was done well in the first Mercenaries game on PS2 and XB. If you played as Chris Jacobs, your health would slowly regenerate up to 1/5th of your maximum health bar. You'd remain injured and vulnerable, but it wasn't completely unthinkable you could finish off a few more of those dastardly North Koreans if you approached the combat carefully. Jacobs was the only character with this ability, as the other two mercenaries possessed different abilities (one was a fast runner and the other was "stealthy", or at least tried to be), and this talent was explained by his hardened military training and field medicine expertise, rather than by the sheer force of will most characters seem to regenerate by these days. The health meter still had functional numbers, which made it all the more tense as you tried to calculate whether 6 hit points would be enough to dive from one collapsing bit of cover to the next, or if a stray bullet would take you down in the ensuing crossfire. It was certainly easier for me to estimate my chances than by examining the splotches of blood on my face in games like Call of Duty or Gears of War. The sequel, Mercenaries 2, gave every character regenerating health that climbed back up to 100, eliminating the unique feel of the characters from the first game. At least it took longer than ten seconds to shrug off seemingly fatal wounds...

 

[spartan231490]

I completely disagree with this. Regenerating health is the best option. Having to find health packs, and go through extended periods with reduced health, is just a pain in the ass, and it slows things down. Faster paced(within reason) is more entertaining because you spend less time going "oh shit, I can't do that with this much health" and more time playing.

 

[NickCooley]

There's nothing wrong with Regenerating Health except it's over used. I have no doubt that if the trend reversed and we were back to chasing down medpacks we'd get another one of these nostalgic "Game X did it better" circle-jerks about how health bars are unrealistic, ruin immersion, break flow, insert bad thing here, etc, etc.

 

[esliang]

Ah, so it looks like there was something Yahtzee liked abut Sonic after all.

I don't know about that luck system, though. First off, Yahtzee already said that he doesn't like luck in combat in his "No More Heroes" Review. I agreed with his point and I don't see the big difference here. Also, if the system is essentially chopping off a bit of health based on projected trajectories of whatever, I don't see how it could be that much different than just a regular health bar. Not that health bars are a bad thing, but they've already been done. Wouldn't it just not be an original idea anymore?

Health stations though...seriously, I think those are great. Although, if we want to get picky about realism, why wouldn't the enemy either use the stations or destroy them?

 

[Daft_Ninja]

i agree yahtzee. i am currently in a game art college and i am making a game level where you have a set amout of life and the enemies are soo merciless. you kill one and twice as much spawn from its remains. sort of a sadistic style but theres your wits for ya

 

[Daft_Ninja]

i agree yahtzee. i am currently in a game art college and i am making a game level where you have a set amout of life and the enemies are soo merciless. you kill one and twice as much spawn from its remains. sort of a sadistic style but theres your wits for ya

 

[Kian2]

I haven't played many games with regenerating health, but in those I have it always bothered me.

Leaving aside the realism aspect, they break immersion for me. I'm all excited, shooting, running for my life, sneaking around, then get hit. I get worried for a second until I'm out of the line of fire, and then I have to wait for the health to come back.

It makes no sense to go back out immediately because for the investment of a few seconds, I can avoid having to replay perhaps ten minutes of the game I already beat. But at the same time, even a few seconds are enough to break the flow of the game. Because I need to duck for cover right when the game is most exciting, and purposefully stay away from the action.

If we're going to sacrifice realism for fun and gameplay, I think 'kill to heal' is a much more attractive option. Instead of ducking out of the action to recover, you have to play more carefully and more aggressively as you try to snipe a few more points of health from the enemies. The system forces you to keep going, rather than hide away.

But really, any system that demands that you become more involved in what is going on the greater the danger is would be preferable to one that asks you to hide away until you're all better and the excitement is past.

 

[HideYourSouls]

It's obvious why they implemented the health regeneration: online multiplayer. If you're in a one-on-one battle and barely win with low health, the only thing you'll do to survive in games with old healt systems is camping somewhere with your little sniper rifle. Health regeneration makes sure your ready for a next one.

..But of course, Yahtzee doesn't care about multiplayer.

 

[Vibhor]

It's obvious why they implemented the health regeneration: online multiplayer. If you're in a one-on-one battle and barely win with low health, the only thing you'll do to survive in games with old healt systems is camping somewhere with your little sniper rifle. Health regeneration makes sure your ready for a next one.

..But of course, Yahtzee doesn't care about multiplayer.

They add health pickups in levels for a reason, plus without health regen it also helps the newbies to get an edge.

 

[Corekrash]

And if there wasn't a source of health nearby, you just had to be extra careful. And weren't those the most exciting parts of a game

This is very true for me. Playing Doom back in the day and playing half-life I always secretly loved those times when I screwed up and had to be extra careful until my health/ armour was back to a more agreeable quantity. All the while keeping my eyes peeled for even the tiniest boost I could find to keep me standing upright in-game. When the regen system was brought into games I thought it was an interesting take on things, but overall I do still prefer the old health bar/percentage system, where hiding for a few seconds didn't completely repair any mistakes you made. To me that has always felt like a kind of exploit. As long as you don't die, and can find a quiet spot to chill out for a bit, you're fine just doesn't agree with me.

 

[honestdiscussioner]

Yahtzee "stole" my health idea. Of course, since I've never told anyone it's more likely he just came up with it on his own. Plus mine is a bit different, instead of "luck" it would be "
stamina" or "concentration" where whenever a hit would be registered you've automatically dodge said hit. This would work well in Star Wars games, where it is really unrealistic to pummel a Sith or Jedi with your lightsaber any more than once. No one in any of the movies continued fighting after even a glancing blow from a saber, let alone getting slashed to bits. It also has the added penalty of interrupting attacks.

 

[Pelemus-McSoy]

I still don't know why developers don't use the segmented health as seen in Far Cry 2, Resistance: Fall of Man, and Chronicles of Riddick.

Your health bar is divided into smaller bars, and each bar regenerates, but only until that bar is full, and never more than that.

Basically, if there's some health left in the bar, the bar will regenerate, but it will only regenerate that bar. That means developers know players will always have at least one bar of health, and can plan accordingly.

I remember seeing Medal of Honor: Airborne try that once, and they executed it so poorly...possibly because the bars themselves were so small.

I agree with you on the segmented health. Perfect Dark Zero (though nowhere near as good as its predecessor) and Halo Reach have implemented this extremely well.

In PDZ, if you're punched, take fall damage, or playing the campaign on Agent, you only take "shock" damage that will recover; play on a higher difficulty or get shot, you take shock damage, but you're health bar also decreases. After a long and brutal fight, you could be left with a small sliver of health where the next attack will kill you.

In Reach (much like in Halo 1), your shields will take a few shots to allow you to get into cover, but if you can't escape they'll shatter, leaving yourself wide open for assault. Although there's a little health regeneration, you're only allowed to heal up to three bars instead of the whole thing. Plus the medpacs and Drop Shield are always a nice reward for a long and tough battle.

 

[mattaui]

Being a long-time tabletop gamer, my first introduction to any sort of health management was through hit points in D&D, which immediately seemed both arbitrary but also the easiest way to manage damage infliction. It did lead to some silly situations where special rules had to be made regarding killing otherwise helpless enemies, or you'd have to sit there and hack at a fellow with a broadsword for several rounds before he was truly and finally dead. Also, it didn't matter how hurt you were, as long as you weren't below 1 hp, you were still functioning at the top of your game, but below that, you were dead. Plenty of other games since have added all sorts of methods for tracking damage, some much more realistic but most of them fairly forgiving because, as noted, unless you're really hard up for some gritty gameplay, dying every time you're shot isn't all that fun.

I think the current trend of 'recover in cover' allows a player to more easily navigate the game based on his or her skill level. That is, the game difficulty setting effectively controls how many hits you can take before you have to go to cover, and once you're in cover you're able to regen without worrying about whether or not you've already exhausted all the consumables in a given room or map. If I ever feel like I'm not being challenged enough in a game, I simply kick the difficulty up a notch, and I've yet to feel like I breezed through without having to put in an adequate amount of work.

Speaking of work, it does all boil down to what ends up being the most fun. Some people hate checkpoint systems, for instance, and want to be able to save their game wherever, and others think that saving your game too often ruins the immersion. I think health systems are a lot like that, and they've done what they can to both control the user experience and allow the most people to have the most fun.

I suppose a game could always introduce an option or two regarding health, in addition to difficulty, and even give you an achievement, a la Fallout Las Vegas, when you complete the game on 'hardcore' or 'too much time on your hands' mode.

 

[pandasaw]

It depends on the game and whether a regenative health system makes sense. I kind of like games that combine the two systems (example: Halo Reach and the first Resistance).