The only thing I don't like about Fallout is its time limit. I hate time limits. Fallout 2 has none however, so that fixed it. I had missed out on them the first time around, but picked them up from GOG. I was blown away by the freedom it gave you, which current games could learn from. I guess it comes down to what your expectations are.
I love the old Fallout games... mostly because of the almost complete freedom they give you. Yes, they are a little dated, especially Fallout 1, but I can't really think of any modern RPG that can beat the freedom they could offer...
I love the holier then thou attitude some gamers take.
Makes me somewhat understand why people hated gamers so much.
Shooter fans have the small amount of their population that think they are the most talented thing to ever touch a controller.
RPG fans have the small amount of their population who think that they are the master race and all who were not apart of the cult "Back in the day" isn't welcome to the party.
Its like how Mass Effect and Fallout 3 get snubbed because they arn't Diablo Style top down games for the PC Master Race. Gaming is an artform, it evolves and adapts.
Its like Point and Click adventures and the amount of people who say that they died out because people are stupid. No, its because they were mostly moldy ass. No, I don't hate Point and Click Adventures, infact I have Sanitarium installed on my computer right now. But they were not good games, they were games that required you to rub objects on everything else in the world to try and figure out what exactly you would need to advance to the next area.
Actually, if you read posts from people who love the first Fallout (like SakSak) it's not the combat that makes them love the game or the fact that they're top down. No it's depth of the game, and yes after playing games like Arcanum I can't conclude anything else than the fact that games like Mass Effect and Fallout 3 are indeed much more shallow, rpg-wise. No one says that there aren't any advancements in the genre, but you can't ignore the fact that some things are lost in the proces. And imo, some of those things are very important for a good RPG. I see no reason why Fallout 3 couldn't be so deep as Fallout 1/2, while still maintaining the advancements.
Im halfway (I guess) through Fallout 2 after enjoying Fallout 3 and I do really enjoy it. I love the way you can do what you want.
Annoying thing in Fallout3 is indestructable children. I dont take an overly huge amount of joy in shooting virtual children in the face (thats possably a lie), it just ruins the immersion when I cant kill one if they piss me off, like I do with all the other NPCs that annoy me.
I was very impressed with the amount of options availiable, not having played many old RPGs it was new for me to be able to tackle situations in such a wide veriety of ways.
Turn based combat only irritates me when its a stand off and im just doing the same thing over and over until something or me is dead, but the actual turn based bit is fine, I love Worms!
What other games are like Fallout 2 in the amount of freedom you get? Id be well interested in having a ganders.
Lol "If you don't like the first two fallouts, you don't like RPGS."
That is the single most ignorant thing I think i've heard on these forums, and that is saying something.
Wait.. Wait! I got one better.
If you don't like Halo, you don't like FPS'!
Can you imagine the shit that someone would get for making a statement like that? Yeah, Fallout 1 and 2 made some innovations, but it is not the end all be all of RPGS. Fallout is, IN YOUR OPINION the best RPG, it does not make it fact.
D4zZ said:
Annoying thing in Fallout3 is indestructable children. I dont take an overly huge amount of joy in shooting virtual children in the face (thats possably a lie), it just ruins the immersion when I cant kill one if they piss me off, like I do with all the other NPCs that annoy me.
That is more or less a problem with the video game industry today, I can't really name one recent game that allows you to do that. I honestly suspect its fear of being banned from an entire country, or getting the dreaded AO.
Not really, but thats what it comes down to in the minds of the fans of the first two Fallout games. Most fans of the first two Fallout games just arn't that keen on the whole FPS thing. There is an old Fallout fan website called No Mutants Allowed where you generally get laughed out the front door for claiming you like Fallout 3.
So, i'm about make the heads of our resident Fallout 1 & 2 fans explode.
In my opinion, Fallout 3 is a much better RPG then the first two Fallout games could have ever hoped of being. Why? Because.. Gasp! I can roleplay in it! I can design a character type, a personality and follow that designed character through this world and get totally lost in it. Its very possible to start playing Fallout 3, and get so immersed that you don't even realize the time until it gets mysteriously dark and your stomach is crying bloody murder.
I do like the original Fallout game, if for no other reason then the innovations it made.
I've been through Fallout 1+2, and I can truly say I hated them.
They're just dull compared to most of the RPG's I've played, and I've played a lot.
I think nostalgia is a powerful factor, they might have been good when they shone through a pile of crappy games, but if you look at their quality now, it's terrible.
I love the holier then thou attitude some gamers take.
Makes me somewhat understand why people hated gamers so much.
Shooter fans have the small amount of their population that think they are the most talented thing to ever touch a controller.
RPG fans have the small amount of their population who think that they are the master race and all who were not apart of the cult "Back in the day" isn't welcome to the party.
Its like how Mass Effect and Fallout 3 get snubbed because they arn't Diablo Style top down games for the PC Master Race. Gaming is an artform, it evolves and adapts.
Its like Point and Click adventures and the amount of people who say that they died out because people are stupid. No, its because they were mostly moldy ass. No, I don't hate Point and Click Adventures, infact I have Sanitarium installed on my computer right now. But they were not good games, they were games that required you to rub objects on everything else in the world to try and figure out what exactly you would need to advance to the next area.
But back on topic, why do I hate Fallout?
Its Diablo, Diablo that requires you to pause every few seconds during the combat. That is exactly what I hated about the combat. If you are going to go click based, go click based, if you are going to go turn based go turn based. But the action point system is so sluggish and boring that turn based would have been a preferable.
Yes, Fallout 1 & 2 had many innovations and paved the way for better games. But some of us think that they are very bad games. To assume that anyone who hates your precious beloved game is an idiot is silly.
And yes, games did get easier, but they didn't get easier to accommodate for a newer generation that lacked intelligence.. They got easier so that everyone would have a chance to enjoy the game, not just the obsessive compulsives who visited the arcade every day and memorized every single special attack combination for every single character in Street Fighter.
Honestly, you seem to be making comparisons that outline extreme ignorance.
Diablo is not like Fallout. Fallout is not like Diablo. To claim that these things are the same is to claim that Myst is DOOM.
Diablo is very much combat oriented. It's an action RPG. Even wikipedia says so. In Fallout, combat is entirely optional. Fallout offers freedom. Diablo is essentially linear, except for the procedurally generated terrain, monsters, and items.
Also, Fallout combat is strictly turn based, not psuedo turn based as you seem to describe.
There are similarities between them, like the isometric perspective, etc. but these are essentially trivial. I think most of us would agree that the perspective difference between Fallout and Fallout 3 is trivial in and of itself.
The main difference for me between Fallout and the action RPGs I've played is the level of freedom involved. While it would be philosophically possible for a real time, first person RPG to offer a ton of freedom, it would not be fiscally or practically possible due to the difference in the cost of content creation. And inevitably freedom without content, without a sprawling world that is actually populated is empty.
Could you imagine how much it would cost to have your character behave and be treated as a mental retard in Fallout 3 as they did in Fallout 2 if your intelligence was too low?
Diplomacy is a difficult track to stick with in most action RPGs. In Mass Effect, it can do some things for you, and they even threw in the Fallout-esque final boss diplomacy suicide.
Well, except that there ended up being a super secret final final boss.
But these things all take backseat to combat. After all, it's called an action RPG. Action is inherent to the genre.
Also, if you are going to quote Yahtzee, quote Yahtzee. We all know what you did there. Give the man some credit if you are going to steal his stuff.
I'm not trying to belittle any of the games you described here. I enjoy action RPGs. I've played and enjoyed The Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Gothic (ok, it was a little too glitchy to finish), and so on. I enjoy shooters like Halo, DOOM, DOOM 3, Bioshock, System Shock 2, Team Fortress 2 etc. I enjoy crime themed sandbox games. I enjoy turn based strategy, real time strategy, and platformers. I basically enjoy pieces of every genre. Except rhythm. That's not for me.
I can also understand if Fallout, and as you have said turn based combat in general, is not your cup of tea.
It's just that if you are to criticize something with utter falsehoods, make invalid comparisons, and try to say that action RPGs are strictly and objectively better than tradtional RPGs, I'm going to call bulls**t on you.
I just don't understand how dull of a person you have to be to enjoy the gameplay. It quite possibly has one of the worst combat systems i've encountered. Even by the standard of most RPGS. Hell, even by the standard of most TURN BASED rpgs this game moves slow.
You have to move, that takes action points. You walk, slowly. Your companion has to move, this takes a turn. They move, slowly. Every. Single. Enemey. Has to take a turn eventually, and when you are in a particularly big fight it becomes an example of mind melting boredom. It might have been more exciting if everyone moved a bit faster.
Everything is dark, muddy, and confusing. Mostly because a lot of the game takes place in sewers, caves, vaults, etc. The gamma level really doesn't matter here, because at one point I turned the gamma level up to max and it didn't really make a big impact. This can lead to the quests becoming more confusing then they already are.
The quests are beyond confusing, for example. In Fallout 1 you eventually come to a place called the Necropolis. After stumbling around a dark cave you are sent on a mission to get parts to repair something. Its north of the water shed... What the fuck is the water shed? As a matter of fact, the direction I ended up having to go to complete the quest didn't seem like north at all, it seemed more like south, but there is no readily available compass so you mostly have to do guess work. It commits the cardinal sin that most JRPGS do: It drops you into a situation with only the vaguest idea of what the hell you are supposed to do. Lets not forget, while we're talking about confusing, that it starts out that way. You head to the vault your told about, look around, and are then told the water chip isn't there. So you pretty much have to wing it and go around to every NPC in the local town until you find one that will speak and knows anything pertaining to the quest.
Oh, and lets not forget the story. From the amount of bitching fans of the original two fallouts do, you'd think that the Fallout games had perfect stories..
I'm listing all the plot holes.
*How the hell does the Vault Overseer know about the other vault, and its exact location.. Hasn't the vault door been closed?
*Why are vaults experiments? If your planning for the NUCLEAR APOCALYPSE why do you need to do a sociological study on the effects of certain bullshit scenarios on the people that will be rebuilding?
*Why are there TWO super soldier programs. Why would you need Super Mutants if you're making Deathclaws for the SAME EXACT PURPOSE.
*Why is it, that the people of Arroyo don't just move? Say, into a community, maybe move into a town, get jobs, build homes..
*Why was the G.E.C.K not mass produced and kept somewhere the government could get to them?
To loosely quote Yahtzee
"If hating this sortof thing makes me stupid, then call me retard mcspackypants. Because i'd rather be having fun then bored out of my genius mind."
How can you not find them enjoyable?
It's a bit dated mind you, but the graphics were great for the time. Fun quests, Loads of Random Encounters, and Great weapons. Not to mention a great plot. I guess it's something that works for some, and not for others.
To enjoy any of the Fallout games, you have to truly appreciate that feeling of being thrown into a hostile environment that you nothing about. Actually, playing through the original Fallout after I had played Fallout 3 made me appreciate a little more how much Bethesda got that feeling, although the original had even less direction. Still, if you don't like that style of game, you aren't going to like any of the games.
So, I gave them another chance, and dear lord how does anyone find this enjoyable? I hate Final Fantasy but even Final Fantasies combat system is better then these games. The quests were all confusing, the controls were confusing, there is no autosave, and there are far too many ways to screw up just by accidental clicking or harmless exploration.
I've been playing Fallout 1 lately. The lack of autosave doesn't bother me, as I am slightly OCD in saving.
Yes, the combat system does suck. Especially if you're got a hireling, and can't keep the little retard from charging into a pack of enemies that you were trying to lure into a doorway where you could take them one or two at a time. Not to mention the wonky random number generator.
However: I like many of the old-school things about it. I like being able to just take off in one direction and see what's there, even if it does kill me. A lot of the "polish" in modern games makes them a more constrained experience. It can put you on autopilot, whereas Fallout 1 lets you poke around a bit more.
OP, you can alter the speed of combat and make your character run by default, so the pace of the game shouldn't be an issue at all, it's just nit-picking.
How the hell does the Vault Overseer know about the other vault, and its exact location.. Hasn't the vault door been closed?
The information is stored in a computer. Presumably they would want to know where they may find other survivors when they finally exit the vault.
Why are vaults experiments? If your planning for the NUCLEAR APOCALYPSE why do you need to do a sociological study on the effects of certain bullshit scenarios on the people that will be rebuilding?
Besides them obviously not wanting to, who would accept them? There is a lot of prejudice against tribals in fallout 2. A whole village wouldn't settle in very well.
Lordmarkus said:
Trivia: Fallout 1 is the 5th best game I have played.
I'd like to hear the four games that you find greater than fallout. It's my favourite game, but I'm willing to try what you suggest, providing it runs in wine.
The Wastelands aren't supposed to be pretty. They're ugly and monotonous.
The Wastelands aren't supposed to be easy. They're merciless and uncompromising.
Granted...most of that was due to the technology at the time. But, in comparison, Fallout 3 is a walk in the park. Not that it's a bad game, but there are -very- few areas in that game that look like a bomb hit them, and indeed, comes a crop more akin to a junk yard or third-world country than a nuclear blasted zone.
There is this thing called "redundancy". Most ambitious R&D programs don't work out. That's why the real-world military tries lots of different things.
So, I gave them another chance, and dear lord how does anyone find this enjoyable? I hate Final Fantasy but even Final Fantasies combat system is better then these games. The quests were all confusing, the controls were confusing, there is no autosave, and there are far too many ways to screw up just by accidental clicking or harmless exploration.
Ugh. I thought this would happen a lot more often after F3's release, but whatever, this is the first I've seen, so I'll try to contain the fanboy in me.
Fallout 1 and 2 are probably 2 of the best PC RPGs. The 2 came out in the late 90's -- what you described is the norm. Fallout wasn't/isn't particularly user friendly, but it's certainly better than some other complex D & D system. Fallout was great for the level of choice it allowed, the unique and interesting areas, the dark humor, general story, et cetera. Pretty much a checklist of what you look for in an RPG.
I'm sure nostalgia has clouded my judgement (and many others), but I have no problem booting it up and playing for an hour or two, even today. In my opinion, Fallout is far more entertaining than Fallout 3, because it allows for so much more choice, but I understand that it takes patience.
Fallout is a real PC game for real PC gamers. Everything you described is, frankly, irrelevant when you consider the other PC games that were around back then.
My only problems with Fallout (which, by the way, is one of my favorites ever. Again, I'm a fanboy) lies in the glitches and such. I frequently have to "wipe the screen" with my mouse to clear off all of the... "black", I guess. So yeah, it's dated, ugly, confusing, and buggy. That doesn't make it a bad game, really.
Am I the only one who liked the first two back in the day, liked the third one and am now going back and liking the first two all over again? Bring on Fallout: New Vegas.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
