Fallout 3 did not ruin the lore established in previous games.

[beastro]

them not reofrming into a larger nation like the NCR shows, if it shows anything, is that they know what NOT to do in order to ensure they srurive longer.

Yes, we must be high minded when bare survival is necessary.

By staying small, indipendant, towns, with just a little bit of trade between them, they get to void the same disease that destoryed the pre-war peopels, and indeed is destrying the NCR.

Take the village democracy somewhere else.

States are created for a damn good reason in real life and in the game. It's the very reason why the NCR arose from Shady Sands, spread across South Cal: To tame the land and drive the raiders to allow trade and civilization to spread..

 

[Twilight_guy]

Yes, fallout 3 ruined everything... because it was all going so well, you know. Except for this:

but let's casually ignore that because we can ***** about a much more recent game and pretend it was sunshine and rainbows before fallout 3 ruined everything.

 

[beastro]

Lets see the entire town of Megaton was built, and places such as Rivet City, and Tenpenny tower do get maintenance.

Doesn't fly.

Rivet City is an aircraft carrier sitting in the Atlantic for 200 years with no ability to drydock and repaint the keep. It would barely even look like a warship once salt water ate through the hull and spread through the lower decks.

Look up the condition of USS Texas and it's history of hull problems. It's been lackluster for ever since it was mothballed (as in even semi-decent measures taken to prepare it for extended periods without of maintenance) 70 years ago.

 

[MaulYoda]

Because there was probably always a chance the Scribes could never get Liberty Prime to work properly, and Lyons knew he couldn't place too much fate in that project.

Limited time, limited resources, and poor decision making. Plus, there's the Enclave in all this, and the interfighting between the two factions added with the fact that half of his forces decided to leave because he decided to abandon a lot of BoS protocols... well... you get the point.

Someone brought up the fact that the jet that's used in the Capitol Wastes isn't exactly the same jet that was used on the West Coast. Chances are, the myth of jet spread all through out the caravan lines, and someone decided to take it upon his own to create his own version. Sounds plausible to me.

I think it could have something to do with the fact that the East Coast stayed irradiated for as long as it did. Severally ruining the chances of the populace to move on. As for the reason to why DC stayed irradiated as long as it did. That there is a plot hole, considering the half life of radiation in water. Something kept the Capital Wastes radiated longer, and if you apply enough Star Trek plot hole fixing powers (=P), you can bullshit that the source of the radiation was coming from Vault 87 or someplace else.

If you remember in Fallout 3, there was an eyebot that went around broadcasting how apple pie and wholesome the Enclave were to anyone willing to listen in the wastes. What this means to me is, what the Enclave were doing up till this point were recruiting. They were trying to win the hearts of anyone in the Capitol Wastes, and they were recruiting young members to fill in their numbers. As for their arsinal, well... chances are they've been digging up any safe houses along the way East. I mean this is the America we're talking about. Where there's statistically three rifles to ever person.

I'm pretty sure the Enclave in FO3 were up till then trying to keep a lower profile of being evil all humanity hating nazis in favor or recruiting more members to fill their ranks.

1. Worth a try though, no? Not focusing on Liberty Prime and just assaulting the super mutants didn't seem to do much as it is, so why not give the Liberty Prime option a shot? At least then, if it didn't work, Lyons would have a plausible reason to abandon the project without many of his followers abandoning him, and he could go after the super mutants at full strength

2. The BOS arrived in the Capital Wasteland in 2255. The schism with the Outcasts didn't occur until 2276, and the Enclave, while certainly making their presence known (which I'll get to later), wasn't sending out troopers and engaging with the BOS until 2277. Not to mention that Lyons was still in contact with the West Coast BOS and receiving resources from them until this point. That gives Lyons about 20 years to stage a raid on Vault 87 at full strength, with a number of resources, and without interference from the Enclave. The only poor decision making here was Lyons' decision to waste this opportunity when he had plenty of time to take advantage of it. Furthermore, Lyons and his squad were hardened BOS veterans, so it's not like they would've been slaughtered by the super mutants. Also, Lyons completely crushed the raiders at the Pitt, but the far less organized and less powerful band in the Capital Wasteland is still standing. Again, he wants to help the people, right? Why not start with an assault on Evergreen Mills?

3. What caravan lines run across the country? They're all local. Albeit, the West Coast lines are bigger, but they don't extend much more eastward than Utah or Colorado. So yeah, maybe they carried jet to the Mojave (which isn't to far from New Reno at that, so they probably could've acquired jet even without the caravans), but to D.C? I just don't see that (and like I said, the Wasteland Survival Guide being in New Vegas didn't make much sense either). And again, the effects of jet come from some specific chemicals. If those chemicals aren't used, then you're not making jet, you're making another drug. And in that case, why call it jet and not something else? Also, the difference in jet between the games is that it's less addictive in Fallout 3 and New Vegas than Fallout 2. I could buy this (maybe the jet produced after Myron's death was less efficient, or maybe the only way for jet to survive as a drug after some of the backlash was if it were less addictive), but that would still entail people knowing how to make jet. People in New Vegas should know due to their close proximity to New Reno and other areas in Fallout 2. People in Fallout 3 though? I don't see that being possible, especially since the ghoul making ultrajet doesn't even have all the ingredients to make regular jet

4. As you said though, the East Coast shouldn't have been irradiated this long. And even if you bulls*** a plothole, you're still bulls***ing it and it doesn't fix the problem. Also, it's not the East Coast is just one giant radiation pool; radiation isn't everywhere, and some settlements popped up pretty quickly at that. So the East Coast should've had plenty of time to rebound, no? Certainly enough to get to at least Fallout 1 levels. And how the hell would Vault 87 be the source of radiation, even with the bulls*** approach? The radiation from the nuclear explosion outside of it is pretty contained, and the FEV isn't going anywhere either, so that wouldn't work

5. The Enclave doesn't recruit. They consider anyone not tainted by outside radiation to be the only "pure" or "real" humans, and that group only includes members of the Enclave and vault inhabitants who remained in their vault all these years. Everyone else is considered a "mutant," and recruiting them would go against the Enclave's principles. And while the Enclave Remnants in New Vegas might not agree with this, the contingent in Fallout 3 is still clearly devoted to this and wouldn't recruit outsiders as such. And hell, why would they recruit people who they're planning to kill, or why would people join an organization trying to kill them? It doesn't make a lot of sense, and it still doesn't explain the lack of senior Enclave members in Fallout 3. As for resources, I'm sure they could find guns, but the more powerful energy weapons used by the Enclave are a bit rarer. And vertibirds were pretty damn exclusive, not to mention still in the prototype phase when the Great War happened, so they wouldn't find any of those lying around. And any of the remaining ones were seized by the Enclave, most of which were transported to their main base, the Oil Rig. Again, Raven Rock probably had some advanced tech and maybe a couple of vertibirds, but not enough to completely restock the Enclave. Hell, I'm not sure if Raven Rock would have any vertibirds. After all, all of the vertibirds at Navarro and in the Mojave Outpost were flown in from the Oil Rig, so they might've all been stored at Oil Rig.

As for safe houses, most Enclave outposts on the mainland were established post-war and in close proximity to the Oil Rig. They might've had a few lying around like Raven Rock or Chicago, but not too many. And again, the Oil Rig was still their main base of operations, so it would be the most fully stocked. The outposts, on the other hand, probably wouldn't

6. Again, the Enclave doesn't recruit wastelanders or "mutants," and the contingent in Fallout 3 was still adamant in that belief. If they weren't, they would be trying to forget the past and move on with their lives like the Remnants in New Vegas, not try to finally fulfill the goals of the Enclave from Fallout 2. And you call sending out eyebots that are blasting propaganda "keeping a low profile?" Granted, it made them seem like nice people, but if they didn't do this and just remained inside Raven Rock, it wouldn't matter what the wastelanders thought of the Enclave because they'd all be dead. At least the Enclave in Fallout 2 hadn't been on the mainland in centuries, so they needed to do some scouting to assess the situations and eventually acquire FEV from Mariposa to carry out their plans. Not to mention that the vertibirds had limited operational range, so they needed to establish outposts for refueling and whatnot. Other than that, any mainland activities remained pretty secretive. But still, the Enclave had a need to do some things more in the open, so you were going to eventually spot them (especially after they kidnapped your village, which they needed for testing)

On the other hand, the Enclave in Fallout 3 has all of the FEV research (somehow), it's all been tested, and they're fully aware of the situation on the mainland. So all they need to do is rebuild whatever machinery they needed in Fallout 2 to launch it into the jet stream (if they don't already have fully repaired machines at Raven Rock, as Raven Rock did have labs and whatnot), and they could successfully wipe out the "mutants" without ever leaving their base. Hell, even if they needed to leave their base for resources and whatnot, they could do so in small patrols without every really revealing their existence to most people. But the eyebots ruined that. As did the fact that Eden chose water instead of the jet stream, which means he had to reveal the Enclave in order to seize Project Purity

 

[beastro]

I liked what Sajuuk had to say and agree with it for the most part, but Eddie does have a point. What I think Fallout 3 helped with was introduce the Fallout universe to gamers who didn't know what the heck Fallout was for the PC. I was fortunate enough to know, myself, but there are younger players now who have taken a liking to Fallout's established lore that Fallout 3 helped revive after the series' prolonged hiatus.

I think having New Vegas after Fallout 3 by the originators was the smartest thing Bethesda could have done. Fallout 3 is the nostalgic fan-service the community needed, while New Vegas helped progress and evolve the lore of the Fallout universe.

That said, I'm really holding out hope for something extraordinary in the next Fallout. If it's even the slightest upgrade similar in change from Oblivion (eh.) to Skyrim (woo!), I'll be a happy gamer.

This is the only reason why FO3: It was to reestablish the franchise on a solid foundation and that wasn't the time or place to be taking risks, like resurrecting Van Buren as NV did.

 

[MaulYoda]

Yes, fallout 3 ruined everything... because it was all going so well, you know. Except for this:

but let's casually ignore that because we can ***** about a much more recent game and pretend it was sunshine and rainbows before fallout 3 ruined everything.

Believe me, the only reason Fallout fans pretend it doesn't exist is because they wish it didn't. Fallout fans bitched about that one for a while (just go to the FOBOS section on Duck and Cover and read any of the articles), and all of us believe it's the worst thing to ever bear the Fallout name. And yes, it was much, MUCH worse than Fallout 3. The difference is everyone thought FOBOS sucked, so it's not like there was some divide between older Fallout fans and newer Fallout fans. But with Fallout 3, that divide exists so each side wants to prove itself right, hence the debate

 

[SajuukKhar]

Doesn't fly.

Rivet City is an aircraft carrier sitting in the Atlantic for 200 years with no ability to drydock and repaint the keep. It would barely even look like a warship once salt water ate through the hull and spread through the lower decks.

Look up the condition of USS Texas and it's history of hull problems. It's been lackluster for ever since it was mothballed (as in even semi-decent measures taken to prepare it for extended periods without of maintenance) 70 years ago.

And if you look at Rivet city's hull, especially the parts near the broken parts, you will see it is in terrible condition.

 

[teebeeohh]

what happened at the east coast doesn't effect anything so i really don't care. i got the game i wanted with NV and will only ever care about fallout3 if we get a game centered on the MIT commonwealth.

and the main factor with the jet is time, there was no reason for people to bring it west with them(since the east coast appears to be underdeveloped) and 30 something years is too short a time to travel that far, even assuming this is not original jet a knockoff.

fallout 3 was a beta, testing if fallout works in 3rd in the 21st century, it did so they used the tech behind it to make a good game

 

[Paragon Fury]

my biggest issue with fallout 3 was that it felt out of place time wise. it felt like it should be set a decade or two after the war not 200 years.

New Vegas actually holds the answer to this: Mr. House.

If you play through the main story, you learn that Mr. House set up a missile defense system in order to preserve Las Vegas (and by extension, much of the West Coast). While it was not totally effective, it was effective enough that the West Coast of the United States did not get hammered nearly as badly as the East Coast of the United States did.

The East Coast was also a much more strategically valuable target, being home to many more of the United State's important military and civilian infrastructure, so it would've been hit harder anyway.

It also has a lot to do with perspective - being a First Person game and seeing it close-up is a lot different than the isometric view provided by older Fallouts.

 

[SajuukKhar]

what happened at the east coast doesn't effect anything so i really don't care. i got the game i wanted with NV and will only ever care about fallout3 if we get a game centered on the MIT commonwealth.

and the main factor with the jet is time, there was no reason for people to bring it west with them(since the east coast appears to be underdeveloped) and 30 something years is too short a time to travel that far, even assuming this is not original jet a knockoff.

fallout 3 was a beta, testing if fallout works in 3rd in the 21st century, it did so they used the tech behind it to make a good game

IMO, if the Wasteland Survive Guide was able to make it from the east coast to the Mojave in 3-4 years time, I don't see the problem with Jet making it to the east in what? 30 years time?

 

[MaulYoda]

my biggest issue with fallout 3 was that it felt out of place time wise. it felt like it should be set a decade or two after the war not 200 years.

New Vegas actually holds the answer to this: Mr. House.

If you play through the main story, you learn that Mr. House set up a missile defense system in order to preserve Las Vegas (and by extension, much of the West Coast). While it was not totally effective, it was effective enough that the West Coast of the United States did not get hammered nearly as badly as the East Coast of the United States did.

The East Coast was also a much more strategically valuable target, being home to many more of the United State's important military and civilian infrastructure, so it would've been hit harder anyway.

Mr. House only attempted to save Las Vegas. He did NOT try save the rest of the West Coast whatsoever, nor was his missile system designed to do so; it was only designed to protect Las Vegas from any nukes launched against it. And even if Mr. House wanted to save the West Coast, his defenses weren't widespread enough to do so. As such, Las Vegas was mostly preserved while the rest of the West Coast was ravaged just like the East Coast (the smoldering ruins of L.A. were quite comparable to D.C.). Hell, the West Coast was hit first, giving its citizens less time to find shelter than their East Coast counterparts, which would balance out the East Coast possibly or probably being hit harder

And yet, the West Coast managed to rebuild while the East Coast did not

 

[Falconus]

Honestly, it seems like you're taking every measure to argue against any possibilities in Vault 87 being plusable and not for the sake of logic. Instead, for the sake of bashing on the idea with great prejudice.

And you're taking every measure to justify the absurdity of the premise. Don't get me wrong, I like fallout 3. But that game was dumb pretty much right across the board. And you don't have to make excuses for it. You can like it despite it's flaws.

Here's a question for ya. Vault 87 has two entrances. One of them is so irradiated as to kill anything that comes near it that isn't a super mutant. And the other is through little lamplight. How do the super mutants get prisoners in to mutate them?

 

[MaulYoda]

what happened at the east coast doesn't effect anything so i really don't care. i got the game i wanted with NV and will only ever care about fallout3 if we get a game centered on the MIT commonwealth.

and the main factor with the jet is time, there was no reason for people to bring it west with them(since the east coast appears to be underdeveloped) and 30 something years is too short a time to travel that far, even assuming this is not original jet a knockoff.

fallout 3 was a beta, testing if fallout works in 3rd in the 21st century, it did so they used the tech behind it to make a good game

IMO, if the Wasteland Survive Guide was able to make it from the east coast to the Mojave in 3 years time, I don't see the problem with Jet making it to the east in what? 30 years time?

The Wasteland Survival Guide being in New Vegas was just as much of a stretch as jet being in Fallout 3 despite no cross-country contact. But I took the Wasteland Survival guide as fan service (possibly at Bethesda's request) to Fallout 3 fans, as there wasn't much in New Vegas that would be familiar to newer fans

Then again, anyone can write a book. And while you could argue that anyone could make jet with enough experimentation, no one in Fallout 3 seems to know how, nor do most have the resources to develop it. Not to mention that it would be pretty circumstantial for the same drug on the East Coast to look the same and have the same name as jet on the West Coast, especially with no cross-country contact. At least "Wasteland Survival Guide" is a generic name. But again, I thought it was more fan service in New Vegas, but less problematic in its execution than jet being in Fallout 3 based on a few aspects

 

[DailonCmann]

Here's a thought. Maybe it ignored a good deal of the established lore and little nit picks because it was completely irrelevant to making money. This game was not created for fans of the original series, if it had been, Fallout 3 would have been a top-down isometric point and click game. This game is for the new generation of gamers who were emerging on to the market. Hence it's first person shooting elements, it's complete lack of a need to play previous games, and it taking place completely unconnected to the original games.
I understand if you don't like it, I am sorry. But it simply wasn't for the old players. It was for players like me, this was my first Fallout game. After beating it, I bought 1, 2, and Tactics. They were, frankly, boring until about 3 hours in. The opening scene, not cinematic but actual game-play, of Fallout 3 is my literal birth, bringing me closer to any character than ever before. The opening scene of Fallout was a guy in a cave.
Fallout is a fantastic series, full of great writing and ideas, if its choice was to either die alone and forgotten, or made in to a game that got Game of the Year, multiple additional accolades, and buku revenue, I think the correct one was made. Also, Brian Fargo is making another Wasteland game, so hope for that. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2

 

[Twilight_guy]

Reduced for size

Believe me, the only reason Fallout fans pretend it doesn't exist is because they wish it didn't. Fallout fans bitched about that one for a while (just go to the FOBOS section on Duck and Cover and read any of the articles), and all of us believe it's the worst thing to ever bear the Fallout name. And yes, it was much, MUCH worse than Fallout 3. The difference is everyone thought FOBOS sucked, so it's not like there was some divide between older Fallout fans and newer Fallout fans. But with Fallout 3, that divide exists so each side wants to prove itself right, hence the debate

As always, its better to be either really good or really bad and being mediocre is the worse thing in the world. How odd it is that people are that way.

 

[SajuukKhar]

The Wasteland Survival Guide being in New Vegas was just as much of a stretch as jet being in Fallout 3 despite no cross-country contact. But I took the Wasteland Survival guide as fan service (possibly at Bethesda's request) to Fallout 3 fans, as there wasn't much in New Vegas that would be familiar to newer fans

Then again, anyone can write a book. And while you could argue that anyone could make jet with enough experimentation, no one in Fallout 3 seems to know how, nor do most have the resources to develop it. Not to mention that it would be pretty circumstantial for the same drug on the East Coast to look the same and have the same name as jet on the West Coast, especially with no cross-country contact. At least "Wasteland Survival Guide" is a generic name. But again, I thought it was more fan service in New Vegas, but less problematic in its execution than jet being in Fallout 3 based on a few aspects

Typical, whenever Obsidian does something that could even be remotely conceived as of "wrong" the fans quickly blame every other company around them.

Also, IIRC, there is a ghoul you can trade things to for Ultra-Jet, if he can make Ultra-Jet, he should know how to make normal jet.
Murphy - http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Murphy_%28Fallout_3%29

On top of that, every doctor you meet in the game carries jet in their inventory, they presumably know how to make it.

Brahmin aren't exactly rare in the wasteland.

 

[Nomanslander]

Honestly, it seems like you're taking every measure to argue against any possibilities in Vault 87 being plusable and not for the sake of logic. Instead, for the sake of bashing on the idea with great prejudice.

And you're taking every measure to justify the absurdity of the premise. Don't get me wrong, I like fallout 3. But that game was dumb pretty much right across the board. And you don't have to make excuses for it. You can like it despite it's flaws.

Here's a question for ya. Vault 87 has two entrances. One of them is so irradiated as to kill anything that comes near it that isn't a super mutant. And the other is through little lamplight. How do the super mutants get prisoners in to mutate them?

As if none of the other games had absurd and ridiculously stupid shit in them... Master getting dipped in ooze and morphing - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle style - into a Tetsuo monster. Enclave wanting to destroy the Earth and the rest of Humanity to hop onto a space ship and live in outerspace.

I mean WTF??

How about some of you take a real good look at the original two - so and so called plot hole free works of perfection - and then tell me there was NOTHING stupid as hell about them.

0.O

 

[MaulYoda]

The Wasteland Survival Guide being in New Vegas was just as much of a stretch as jet being in Fallout 3 despite no cross-country contact. But I took the Wasteland Survival guide as fan service (possibly at Bethesda's request) to Fallout 3 fans, as there wasn't much in New Vegas that would be familiar to newer fans

Then again, anyone can write a book. And while you could argue that anyone could make jet with enough experimentation, no one in Fallout 3 seems to know how, nor do most have the resources to develop it. Not to mention that it would be pretty circumstantial for the same drug on the East Coast to look the same and have the same name as jet on the West Coast, especially with no cross-country contact. At least "Wasteland Survival Guide" is a generic name. But again, I thought it was more fan service in New Vegas, but less problematic in its execution than jet being in Fallout 3 based on a few aspects

Typical, whenever Obsidian does something that could even be remotely conceived as of "wrong" the fans quickly blame every other company around them.

Also, IIRC, there is a ghoul you can trade things to for Ultra-Jet, if he can make Ultra-Jet, he should know how to make normal jet.
Murphy - http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Murphy_%28Fallout_3%29

On top of that, every doctor you meet in the game carries jet in their inventory, they presumably know how to make it.

I said it was POSSIBLE that Bethesda asked them to do this; it's also possible Obsidian decided to do this on their own. Either way, I don't have a problem with that. Look, there was a ton of fan service for older fans in New Vegas, and I'm sure some newer fans who only played Fallout 3 felt a bit left out. So including references or aspects from Fallout 3, be it a decision of Obsidian or at the request of Bethesda, was understandable, as it helped keep the game somewhat familiar to newer fans. And yes, that caused some problems or was just unfortunate in other cases. The thing is, Obsidian changed the major factions in Fallout 3 (super mutants, Enclave, BOS) back to how they looked and acted in Fallout 1 and 2 and how they should be at this point in the timeline. They included weapon designs from Fallout 1 and 2 alongside the designs from Fallout 3 as different models of a weapon (i.e. plasma rifle and plasma caster), which some weapons actually were (and I excused such differences in New Vegas AND Fallout 3 as such). And they didn't just included references to the first two games that anyone could get from reading a plot summary (which were still very nice, by the way); they included those little references (and a lot of them) that only someone who had played the original Fallout games would get. And they re-added RPG mechanics that Fallout 3 had removed, and even tried to rationalize some elements that had been introduced by Fallout 3 and hadn't been in the previous games (like power armor training)

So based on all I just said, I knew that Obsidian paid attention to detail and were very knowledgeable when it came to Fallout (probably because some developers had worked at Black Isle, but those that hadn't certainly did their research). And because of this, I knew it wasn't developer oversight that led to the problems caused by the "legacy content" from Fallout 3. So yes, the Wasteland Survival Guide shouldn't be in New Vegas, but it's only there as fan service. And yes, I was upset that the mole rats were still hairless (although there are different species of animals, which accounts for at least that one) and that the power fist was still a box thing; they were unnecessary changes when Bethesda did it, and it was unfortunate that Obsidian didn't correct them. But I knew it was because it was probably easier to reuse assets from Fallout 3 than change the design every minor thing. And besides, they changed the designs of major things to fit the canon, and not every aesthetic change in Fallout 3 made something inconsistent with canon, as many had reasonable explanations (still unnecessary). But the point is, I could excuse these faults for the most part because they were little things, and I knew it wasn't because Obsidian didn't know Fallout

By contrast, Bethesda simply including aspects from previous games isn't fan service (especially when they're changed so drastically), it's what you're supposed to do when making a Fallout game. The key is deciding which aspects belong and which don't given the circumstances of the game and if their appearance is consistent with canon as such. Obsidian did this correctly with exception of the minor "legacy content" from Fallout 3. Bethesda did not, be minor, or more problematically, major aspects. Again, some things did belong and of those, some of the differences were justified or just not that big of a deal (they were unnecessary changes though). But the explanations Bethesda gave for the appearance of others did not fit canon, and for some aspects, they didn't explain their appearance at all. They were just there because they had been in a Fallout game, even if they didn't belong in Fallout 3. So with Bethesda, I knew it wasn't fan service or more easily useable assets (they had to design everything first, didn't they?) that caused the problems. I knew it was developer oversight and a lack of understanding when it came to Fallout. That's why I hold them more accountable

Speaking of which: jet. Yes, there is a ghoul, Murphy (I forgot his name until I saw that link), that makes ultrajet, and I believe I mentioned that in other posts. However, I mentioned it because it is the exact example of the problem I am referring to. Here you have a ghoul who makes jet, and yet, he does not own a brahmin. Jet comes from brahmin s***, so if you're going to make it, you need one. So the point is, how can he know how to make jet if he does not possess the essential ingredient? Furthermore, why in the hell would a doctor make jet, let alone sell it? In New Vegas, there is ONE doctor who occasionally sells ONE jet, but none that sell it regularly or at all (unless you sell it to them and it's still in their inventory), and certainly none making it. So why the DOCTORS in Fallout 3 would, I do not know. And again, they would need a brahmin, which none have. And a lot of doctors aren't even anywhere near one that they could use to make jet without actually owning it. And for the ones that are, the amount of jet they're selling seems rather large compared to the number of nearby brahmin. I mean, the jet producing operation in Fallout 2 was pretty damn big, and for as much jet as there is in Fallout 3, there's nothing on that scale. And if there's no East Coast-West Coast contact and the East Coast discovered jet on their own, it seems pretty circumstantial that it's still called "jet" (which is a less generic name than "Wasteland Survival Guide")

 

[MaulYoda]

Honestly, it seems like you're taking every measure to argue against any possibilities in Vault 87 being plusable and not for the sake of logic. Instead, for the sake of bashing on the idea with great prejudice.

And you're taking every measure to justify the absurdity of the premise. Don't get me wrong, I like fallout 3. But that game was dumb pretty much right across the board. And you don't have to make excuses for it. You can like it despite it's flaws.

Here's a question for ya. Vault 87 has two entrances. One of them is so irradiated as to kill anything that comes near it that isn't a super mutant. And the other is through little lamplight. How do the super mutants get prisoners in to mutate them?

As if none of the other games had absurd and ridiculously stupid shit in them... Master getting dipped in ooze and morphing - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle style - into a Tetsuo monster. Enclave wanting to destroy the Earth and the rest of Humanity to hop onto a space ship and live in outerspace.

I mean WTF??

How about some of you take a real good look at the original two - so and so called plot hole free works of perfection - and then tell me there was NOTHING stupid as hell about them.

0.O

What Falconus said is something that's a legitimate implausibility even with suspension of disbelief. FEV, along with "wacko 50s science" things and other general sci-fi elements in Fallout can be explained with suspension of disbelief. Regardless, Richard Grey was exposed to a MASSIVE amount of FEV, more than any other individual has been exposed to in any Fallout game. Not to mention he was a former resident of Vault 8 and therefore, largely untainted by outside radiation. So given the way FEV works and his massive exposure to it, it's certainly possible that he mutated into a super intelligent blob. Also, you're willing to excuse that in TMNT but not Fallout?

As for the Enclave, space was a second option if they could not salvage the Earth. However, they do not want to destroy Earth. They want to wipe out "mutants," thereby paving the way for "pure" humans to recolonize the Earth. They very loosely and unfairly define these terms, sure, but there's nothing ridiculous about it. Hell, there are a lot of historical parallels you could draw to something like that

 

[scorptatious]

Geez, ever since I posted my threads about New Vegas, I've noticed there's been an increase in the amount of Fallout threads there are. Kind of an odd coincidence.

Honestly, I'm sort of unsure about this whole "Is Fallout 3 canon or non-canon to the series" debate. It seems to be the reason why fans of both the original Fallouts and the more modern Fallouts like to fight a lot.

Me? I don't remember too much from Fallout 3. So I'm probably not a good judge. What I do know is that I enjoyed all the Fallout games I've played so far. Fallout 1, 2, 3, and New Vegas. Some I enjoy more than others, (like 2 and New Vegas) But the rest were good too.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to find Rex a new brain.

captcha: skynet watches

Oh shi...