And if you look at Rivet city's hull, especially the parts near the broken parts, you will see it is in terrible condition.beastro said:
Fallout 3 did not ruin the lore established in previous games.
- Thread starter Nomanslander
- Start date
what happened at the east coast doesn't effect anything so i really don't care. i got the game i wanted with NV and will only ever care about fallout3 if we get a game centered on the MIT commonwealth.
and the main factor with the jet is time, there was no reason for people to bring it west with them(since the east coast appears to be underdeveloped) and 30 something years is too short a time to travel that far, even assuming this is not original jet a knockoff.
fallout 3 was a beta, testing if fallout works in 3rd in the 21st century, it did so they used the tech behind it to make a good game
and the main factor with the jet is time, there was no reason for people to bring it west with them(since the east coast appears to be underdeveloped) and 30 something years is too short a time to travel that far, even assuming this is not original jet a knockoff.
fallout 3 was a beta, testing if fallout works in 3rd in the 21st century, it did so they used the tech behind it to make a good game
New Vegas actually holds the answer to this: Mr. House.nikki191 said:
If you play through the main story, you learn that Mr. House set up a missile defense system in order to preserve Las Vegas (and by extension, much of the West Coast). While it was not totally effective, it was effective enough that the West Coast of the United States did not get hammered nearly as badly as the East Coast of the United States did.
The East Coast was also a much more strategically valuable target, being home to many more of the United State's important military and civilian infrastructure, so it would've been hit harder anyway.
It also has a lot to do with perspective - being a First Person game and seeing it close-up is a lot different than the isometric view provided by older Fallouts.
IMO, if the Wasteland Survive Guide was able to make it from the east coast to the Mojave in 3-4 years time, I don't see the problem with Jet making it to the east in what? 30 years time?teebeeohh said:
Mr. House only attempted to save Las Vegas. He did NOT try save the rest of the West Coast whatsoever, nor was his missile system designed to do so; it was only designed to protect Las Vegas from any nukes launched against it. And even if Mr. House wanted to save the West Coast, his defenses weren't widespread enough to do so. As such, Las Vegas was mostly preserved while the rest of the West Coast was ravaged just like the East Coast (the smoldering ruins of L.A. were quite comparable to D.C.). Hell, the West Coast was hit first, giving its citizens less time to find shelter than their East Coast counterparts, which would balance out the East Coast possibly or probably being hit harderParagon Fury said:
And yet, the West Coast managed to rebuild while the East Coast did not
And you're taking every measure to justify the absurdity of the premise. Don't get me wrong, I like fallout 3. But that game was dumb pretty much right across the board. And you don't have to make excuses for it. You can like it despite it's flaws.Nomanslander said:
Here's a question for ya. Vault 87 has two entrances. One of them is so irradiated as to kill anything that comes near it that isn't a super mutant. And the other is through little lamplight. How do the super mutants get prisoners in to mutate them?
The Wasteland Survival Guide being in New Vegas was just as much of a stretch as jet being in Fallout 3 despite no cross-country contact. But I took the Wasteland Survival guide as fan service (possibly at Bethesda's request) to Fallout 3 fans, as there wasn't much in New Vegas that would be familiar to newer fansSajuukKhar said:
Then again, anyone can write a book. And while you could argue that anyone could make jet with enough experimentation, no one in Fallout 3 seems to know how, nor do most have the resources to develop it. Not to mention that it would be pretty circumstantial for the same drug on the East Coast to look the same and have the same name as jet on the West Coast, especially with no cross-country contact. At least "Wasteland Survival Guide" is a generic name. But again, I thought it was more fan service in New Vegas, but less problematic in its execution than jet being in Fallout 3 based on a few aspects
Here's a thought. Maybe it ignored a good deal of the established lore and little nit picks because it was completely irrelevant to making money. This game was not created for fans of the original series, if it had been, Fallout 3 would have been a top-down isometric point and click game. This game is for the new generation of gamers who were emerging on to the market. Hence it's first person shooting elements, it's complete lack of a need to play previous games, and it taking place completely unconnected to the original games.
I understand if you don't like it, I am sorry. But it simply wasn't for the old players. It was for players like me, this was my first Fallout game. After beating it, I bought 1, 2, and Tactics. They were, frankly, boring until about 3 hours in. The opening scene, not cinematic but actual game-play, of Fallout 3 is my literal birth, bringing me closer to any character than ever before. The opening scene of Fallout was a guy in a cave.
Fallout is a fantastic series, full of great writing and ideas, if its choice was to either die alone and forgotten, or made in to a game that got Game of the Year, multiple additional accolades, and buku revenue, I think the correct one was made. Also, Brian Fargo is making another Wasteland game, so hope for that. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2
I understand if you don't like it, I am sorry. But it simply wasn't for the old players. It was for players like me, this was my first Fallout game. After beating it, I bought 1, 2, and Tactics. They were, frankly, boring until about 3 hours in. The opening scene, not cinematic but actual game-play, of Fallout 3 is my literal birth, bringing me closer to any character than ever before. The opening scene of Fallout was a guy in a cave.
Fallout is a fantastic series, full of great writing and ideas, if its choice was to either die alone and forgotten, or made in to a game that got Game of the Year, multiple additional accolades, and buku revenue, I think the correct one was made. Also, Brian Fargo is making another Wasteland game, so hope for that. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2
As always, its better to be either really good or really bad and being mediocre is the worse thing in the world. How odd it is that people are that way.MaulYoda said:
Typical, whenever Obsidian does something that could even be remotely conceived as of "wrong" the fans quickly blame every other company around them.MaulYoda said:
Also, IIRC, there is a ghoul you can trade things to for Ultra-Jet, if he can make Ultra-Jet, he should know how to make normal jet.
Murphy - http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Murphy_%28Fallout_3%29
On top of that, every doctor you meet in the game carries jet in their inventory, they presumably know how to make it.
Brahmin aren't exactly rare in the wasteland.
Falconus said:
As if none of the other games had absurd and ridiculously stupid shit in them... Master getting dipped in ooze and morphing - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle style - into a Tetsuo monster. Enclave wanting to destroy the Earth and the rest of Humanity to hop onto a space ship and live in outerspace.
I mean WTF??
How about some of you take a real good look at the original two - so and so called plot hole free works of perfection - and then tell me there was NOTHING stupid as hell about them.
0.O
I said it was POSSIBLE that Bethesda asked them to do this; it's also possible Obsidian decided to do this on their own. Either way, I don't have a problem with that. Look, there was a ton of fan service for older fans in New Vegas, and I'm sure some newer fans who only played Fallout 3 felt a bit left out. So including references or aspects from Fallout 3, be it a decision of Obsidian or at the request of Bethesda, was understandable, as it helped keep the game somewhat familiar to newer fans. And yes, that caused some problems or was just unfortunate in other cases. The thing is, Obsidian changed the major factions in Fallout 3 (super mutants, Enclave, BOS) back to how they looked and acted in Fallout 1 and 2 and how they should be at this point in the timeline. They included weapon designs from Fallout 1 and 2 alongside the designs from Fallout 3 as different models of a weapon (i.e. plasma rifle and plasma caster), which some weapons actually were (and I excused such differences in New Vegas AND Fallout 3 as such). And they didn't just included references to the first two games that anyone could get from reading a plot summary (which were still very nice, by the way); they included those little references (and a lot of them) that only someone who had played the original Fallout games would get. And they re-added RPG mechanics that Fallout 3 had removed, and even tried to rationalize some elements that had been introduced by Fallout 3 and hadn't been in the previous games (like power armor training)SajuukKhar said:
So based on all I just said, I knew that Obsidian paid attention to detail and were very knowledgeable when it came to Fallout (probably because some developers had worked at Black Isle, but those that hadn't certainly did their research). And because of this, I knew it wasn't developer oversight that led to the problems caused by the "legacy content" from Fallout 3. So yes, the Wasteland Survival Guide shouldn't be in New Vegas, but it's only there as fan service. And yes, I was upset that the mole rats were still hairless (although there are different species of animals, which accounts for at least that one) and that the power fist was still a box thing; they were unnecessary changes when Bethesda did it, and it was unfortunate that Obsidian didn't correct them. But I knew it was because it was probably easier to reuse assets from Fallout 3 than change the design every minor thing. And besides, they changed the designs of major things to fit the canon, and not every aesthetic change in Fallout 3 made something inconsistent with canon, as many had reasonable explanations (still unnecessary). But the point is, I could excuse these faults for the most part because they were little things, and I knew it wasn't because Obsidian didn't know Fallout
By contrast, Bethesda simply including aspects from previous games isn't fan service (especially when they're changed so drastically), it's what you're supposed to do when making a Fallout game. The key is deciding which aspects belong and which don't given the circumstances of the game and if their appearance is consistent with canon as such. Obsidian did this correctly with exception of the minor "legacy content" from Fallout 3. Bethesda did not, be minor, or more problematically, major aspects. Again, some things did belong and of those, some of the differences were justified or just not that big of a deal (they were unnecessary changes though). But the explanations Bethesda gave for the appearance of others did not fit canon, and for some aspects, they didn't explain their appearance at all. They were just there because they had been in a Fallout game, even if they didn't belong in Fallout 3. So with Bethesda, I knew it wasn't fan service or more easily useable assets (they had to design everything first, didn't they?) that caused the problems. I knew it was developer oversight and a lack of understanding when it came to Fallout. That's why I hold them more accountable
Speaking of which: jet. Yes, there is a ghoul, Murphy (I forgot his name until I saw that link), that makes ultrajet, and I believe I mentioned that in other posts. However, I mentioned it because it is the exact example of the problem I am referring to. Here you have a ghoul who makes jet, and yet, he does not own a brahmin. Jet comes from brahmin s***, so if you're going to make it, you need one. So the point is, how can he know how to make jet if he does not possess the essential ingredient? Furthermore, why in the hell would a doctor make jet, let alone sell it? In New Vegas, there is ONE doctor who occasionally sells ONE jet, but none that sell it regularly or at all (unless you sell it to them and it's still in their inventory), and certainly none making it. So why the DOCTORS in Fallout 3 would, I do not know. And again, they would need a brahmin, which none have. And a lot of doctors aren't even anywhere near one that they could use to make jet without actually owning it. And for the ones that are, the amount of jet they're selling seems rather large compared to the number of nearby brahmin. I mean, the jet producing operation in Fallout 2 was pretty damn big, and for as much jet as there is in Fallout 3, there's nothing on that scale. And if there's no East Coast-West Coast contact and the East Coast discovered jet on their own, it seems pretty circumstantial that it's still called "jet" (which is a less generic name than "Wasteland Survival Guide")
What Falconus said is something that's a legitimate implausibility even with suspension of disbelief. FEV, along with "wacko 50s science" things and other general sci-fi elements in Fallout can be explained with suspension of disbelief. Regardless, Richard Grey was exposed to a MASSIVE amount of FEV, more than any other individual has been exposed to in any Fallout game. Not to mention he was a former resident of Vault 8 and therefore, largely untainted by outside radiation. So given the way FEV works and his massive exposure to it, it's certainly possible that he mutated into a super intelligent blob. Also, you're willing to excuse that in TMNT but not Fallout?Nomanslander said:
As for the Enclave, space was a second option if they could not salvage the Earth. However, they do not want to destroy Earth. They want to wipe out "mutants," thereby paving the way for "pure" humans to recolonize the Earth. They very loosely and unfairly define these terms, sure, but there's nothing ridiculous about it. Hell, there are a lot of historical parallels you could draw to something like that
Geez, ever since I posted my threads about New Vegas, I've noticed there's been an increase in the amount of Fallout threads there are. Kind of an odd coincidence.
Honestly, I'm sort of unsure about this whole "Is Fallout 3 canon or non-canon to the series" debate. It seems to be the reason why fans of both the original Fallouts and the more modern Fallouts like to fight a lot.
Me? I don't remember too much from Fallout 3. So I'm probably not a good judge. What I do know is that I enjoyed all the Fallout games I've played so far. Fallout 1, 2, 3, and New Vegas. Some I enjoy more than others, (like 2 and New Vegas) But the rest were good too.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to find Rex a new brain.
captcha: skynet watches
Oh shi...
Honestly, I'm sort of unsure about this whole "Is Fallout 3 canon or non-canon to the series" debate. It seems to be the reason why fans of both the original Fallouts and the more modern Fallouts like to fight a lot.
Me? I don't remember too much from Fallout 3. So I'm probably not a good judge. What I do know is that I enjoyed all the Fallout games I've played so far. Fallout 1, 2, 3, and New Vegas. Some I enjoy more than others, (like 2 and New Vegas) But the rest were good too.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to find Rex a new brain.
captcha: skynet watches
Oh shi...
[quote/]further spite[/quote]MaulYoda said:
[quote/]spite[/quote]
WHAT?......that makes no friggen sense....developers dont do thease things out of somthing as nonsensical and petty as spite...and even then (int he case of the doors) 1. there can be an explanation 2. IT DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER
by that I mean small changes....like lets say you switched the designs around (FO3 guns and FO1 guns for instance) people would still moan only for the sole reason they are different..not because one design is supirpor...but because its slightly different..hat kind of blind fanboyism is friggen stupid
I can understand why some hate FO3 but some people really just cannot accept change...and thats too bad
the NCR is on the west coast, the richest nation in post-war america, you can make a shitload of money selling the survival guide there. and the survival guide is useful enough to make me believe someone with the ability to move across the US in 3 years(BoS, enclave remnants, possibly also commonwealth and the NCR rangers) would take it across the country. there is no reason for any of those to transport a large enough quantity of jet to make it popular and reverse-engineer it. and it wouldn't make sense for crime lords to get jet to the east coast because the east coast is largely a dumb without major powers with high population, thus not enough potential customers(bandits don't count since they are way to unreliable as business partners) .SajuukKhar said:
and while word to mouth and the jet on the east coast not being original jet is plausible, word to mouth in the post apocalypse just doesn't ravel fast enough to make jet established and widespread on the east coast. if they decided to make a plot point about jet being the new shit it would have been fine by me.
No one on the East Coast shows any indication of knowing that the NCR exists, them going over there to make money selling the guide really doesn't make sense.teebeeohh said: