Feds bust 72 users of a child porn forum.

[Tdc2182]

Sure keeps strict rules for a Kiddy porn site.

Have fun in federal prison boys. Though those ones who admitted to being guilty should be given a little leniency. At least they semi accept they have a problem.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Could I? Likely no. Hardly the same though.

It IS the same. Pedophilia is a deviation of normal human sexual behaviour. The same way you cannot control your urges the same way they can't.

"No. Some choices... they are simply wrong. Love [or in this case, desire] may make them more dificult to resist, but they are still wrong."

AND I'M NOT SAYING what they did was not wrong. HOWEVER, they have a mental illness. THEY CANNOT HELP IT JUST LIKE YOU CAN'T HELP IT. We shouldn't ostracize and abuse them for having a MENTAL ILLNESS. The stigma around pedophilia is the reason pedophiles are not getting the HELP THEY NEED. There's a difference between condemning their actions and outright attempting to ruin any chance they might have at a normal life.

People don't change unless you tell them that what they are doing is wrong. And that's my problem. This whole "It's a mental illness" seeks to absolve them of responsibility.

BUT IT DOES! They have a mental illness. They can only control their urges up to a point the same way YOU can only control your urges up to a certain point. Condemn their actions all you want but DO NOT prevent them from getting the help they so direly need.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

I was gonna get snippy about the government devoting resources to arresting people for jacking off to stuff on the no-no list when murderers and rapists are out and about committing crimes with immediate victims, but then I re-read it and saw the part about the guys that were making it. Now all I can say is that I hope those particular convicts spend their final moments in agony. I have no qualm with whatever you choose to fondle yourself to in the privacy of your own home, however detestable it may be, but to be the one actually harming children warrants a death more horrible than any first-world government could legally administer.

 

[amucha98]

.

 

[KiqJaq]

Yes it's a shame that they have to hide that even if they've done nothing wrong, but professional help? Maybe it's just me, but I get the idea that most people are able to control their sexual urges reasonably well, even if the urges are strange, and that it's a small minority that actually creates the illegal material.

Maybe I'm just defensive though since one of my better friends is an admitted pedophile who has no difficulty controlling himself the way everyone else does.

Anyways, I say jail/rehabilitate the ones who made the child porn and abused children, and let anyone who's done nothing but jack off go about their lives with a slap on the wrist.

I agree that we should jail those people who produce child pornographic material and those who molest children. Still, pedophiles who watch child pornography should, if caught, not be sent to prison but helped through therapy or any other means necessary. If we can remove the stygma associated with pedophilia then maybe more pedophiles will admit their illness and get help.

If your friend can control his urges then that's a good thing. Still, it would be in his best interests to seek professional help. I cannot recommend doing so currently and the reasons should be obvious.

... how would sending caught pedophiles to therapy rather than jail remove any amount of stigma from from it?

And what would a professional do? Cure him of his attraction? I suppose I'd better try and get my gay friend to a therapist as well so he can have normal turn-ons as well?

The point is that pedophilia isn't an illness any more than a foot fetish is. The difference is obviously the child abuse, which isn't a compulsory act upon realizing you like kids. If they aren't hurting anyone and aren't likely to, then I see no reason for their lives to be intruded upon unless they want to seek help themselves.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Could I? Likely no. Hardly the same though.

It IS the same. Pedophilia is a deviation of normal human sexual behaviour. The same way you cannot control your urges the same way they can't.

"No. Some choices... they are simply wrong. Love [or in this case, desire] may make them more dificult to resist, but they are still wrong."

AND I'M NOT SAYING what they did was not wrong. HOWEVER, they have a mental illness. THEY CANNOT HELP IT JUST LIKE YOU CAN'T HELP IT. We shouldn't ostracize and abuse them for having a MENTAL ILLNESS. The stigma around pedophilia is the reason pedophiles are not getting the HELP THEY NEED. There's a difference between condemning their actions and outright attempting to ruin any chance they might have at a normal life.

People don't change unless you tell them that what they are doing is wrong. And that's my problem. This whole "It's a mental illness" seeks to absolve them of responsibility.

BUT IT DOES! They have a mental illness. They can only control their urges up to a point the same way YOU can only control your urges up to a certain point. Condemn their actions all you want but DO NOT prevent them from getting the help they so direly need.

There's a difference between saying "They need help" and "We shouldn't punish them for watching CP". I say that yes, they should get help. But part of that is admiting you've a problem and that what is being done is wrong. Imagine if we did the same with AA. "What you guys are doing is beyond your controll". That absolves them of reasons to correct their actions.

You seem to be arguing that rather then punish these people for exploiting children, we should just send them to therapy. And that's were I say "No".

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

It's a touchy subject, but it's also a very odd one.
Judging from the reactions in this thread, pedophilia is at the height of social stigma/taboo in 21st Century Western society. But that's a relatively new phenomenon. Even as few as 100 years ago it wasn't a big deal. And in Anthropology we learned about cultures that exist today, where children masturbating alongside adults is commonplace.

Take Oscar Wilde, for example. Generally considered a pretty cool, witty guy. But people forget the fact that he used to have sex with young boys a lot. Which really is a lot worse than jacking off to some pictures on the internet. But nobody directs the same intense hostility towards him that they do towards the 72 aforementioned convicts. I wonder why that is...

 

[DexterNorgam]

Exactly who did these people harm?

The children that were in the porn that?s who.

Did they have any involvement in making the porno?

If not, the only emotion I'm getting from this is that it must be terrible living life in a society so repressed that it won't even allow you to harmlessly satisfy your urges without getting thrown in jail.

Saying pedophilia is a something people should repress and not act out on is like saying the same thing about homosexuality, it's uneducated and it only leads to grave unhappiness in the people suffering from it.

If we allowed these people to act out their impulses in the least harmful way imaginable without judging them, not only would that make them lead a better life, it would also mean their urges would be satisfied and they wouldn't do something worse to actual children.

The idea of victimless crimes has never served society in any way, all it's ever lead to is a black market where the people involved are suffering far worse fates because it's out of the public's eye.

You couldn't be more wrong. Rejecting pedophilia as wrong and harmful to society isn't repression, its preservation of society.

You're comparing pedophilia to homosexuality?? really? Apples and oranges isn't even in it for that comparison. Also you seem to be saying that people "suffer" from homosexuality, and while I'm straight I bet many homosexuals would beg to differ that.

Heh, i'm pretty new around here...is this type of "reasoning" common on this forum? I didn't expect to see anyone defending pedophilia on a gaming website.

I'm comparing them in the way that you can't choose what turns you on, and just as homosexuals have acquired a taste for their own gender, as have paedophiles acquired a taste for small children. It's not pretty to think about but the pragmatic thing to do would be to find a way for them to live out their urges without harming anyone.

Instead people just straight out lynch them and call for lethal injections. The comparisson with homosexuality is even more valid for that reason, since homosexuals still receive the same treatment in many parts of the world.

Incorrect. Nobody "acquires" sexual "tastes". (you mean orientation) You're born with em hard wired. And while I'm glad that society is working to become more accepting of those who are attracted to adults of the same sex. I roundly reject that the same acceptance should be extended to those who are attracted to children. Its not acceptable.

People call for the injections because there's no fixing these defective people. Yea, that's not pragmatic, but its the hard truth. If you are unfortunate enough to be so defective that youre attracted to children, then your life should pretty much suck. You should be tormented by urges that you can NEVER EVER indulge. Because honestly I care less about protecting the quality of life of a defective pervert than protecting the innocence of a child.

How lonely it must be on that pedestal of yours, I doubt anyone could ever get up there to share your black and white tunnel vision view of the world.

It's our responsibility as a society to do anything we can to help these people, and there are plenty of ways I can think of right off the bat. Hentai for one, or maybe we should supply psychiatrist with floppy discs filled with child pornography that has in some way been deemed as no longer legitimizing an illegal industry. Medical CP if you will.

It sounds far out, but that's the problem with victimless crimes. There's no sane way around them because the laws behind them are insane to begin with.

Nope, I am very not special in my absolute rejection of pedophilia. I got plenty of company "on my pedestal" (lol)

Its our responsibility as a society to protect children. I would be all about helping pedophiles if I could believe that there is way to help them, but the truth is there isn't a way to help them, they are born with this defect and there is no fixing it.

The things you suggest to "help them" are actually just enabling them to indulge, not doing anything to correct the problem. And the idea that CP could be produced (think about what that entails) for doctors to hand out is so unbelievably bad that I begin to wonder if you're not just making this argument for laughs.

Well that's because you completely misunderstood the argument. I'm not talking about producing it, I'm talking about using what's already out there.

Besides, I shouldn't be the one giving people ideas, I'm sure there are people out there more suited than me, who know a hell of a lot more than me about these things, but nobody listens to them because of people like you, shouting "lethal injection!" at the mere notion of paedophilia.

And there is a way to help these people. We can let them have access to all the child porn we want, as long as we make sure that we aren't actually paying anyone to make it in the process. That way they satisfy their urges, and we avoid them having to look into black market sources, where children are harmed every day.

Still wrong.

1. Never said injections myself. So kindly refrain from saying that I did.
2. Oh, so as long as a child has previously suffered in its making as opposed to currently or recently then child porn is ok for therapeutic reasons?? No, just wrong. The stuff that exists currently is illegal to posses so who's going to be like here ya go government, give this to the doctors...


I don't understand the outpouring of pro child porn and pedophilia notions that have sprung up in this thread.

I mean ya, its a bit barbaric to call for drawing and quartering, but its just idiotic to think that allowing pedos unlimited access to child porn is any kind of solution to anything.

But it is a solution. If we allow these people to possess cp that we have ensured is not in any way still legitimizing the industry, then their urges are satisfied and not only will they not look into sites that offer contemporary materiel still in production, but they will also be under the monitoring of a psychiatrist who can give them constructive ways to deal with their problem.

And since the porn has already been produced, no children are harmed in the process.

Everyone wins, except for illegal immigrants, smokers, SUV-owners and the obese, who will instead become the targets of the misdirected anger of the Colosseum crowd.

What an avalanche of bullshit.

I don't even know where to start with how wrong that concept is.

1. Its not a solution, its just indulging.
2. I reject the notion that someone on prescription child porn (just think about how fucking ridiculous that sounds) would be magically satisfied forever and never seek out underground sources. I don't care what you're talking about, nothing stays interesting forever.
3. I can't imagine many doctors would want to be in possession of such materials or participate in their distribution. Most sane people have no desire to have any affiliation any sort with such offensive things.


This idea of yours is too stupid for words. Do you know that you're making an argument to legalize child pornography?

 

[IxHADOUKENxI]

Okay I'm not typing this to provoke any sort of reaction so hear me out please.
Firstly I will stress I fully acknowledge that this is a very serious issue and it's good to know that (I Assume) The sites been taking down BUT how can the authorities be so brazen about there success in the fight against Child pornography when all you have to do is go to Google and type "Jail****" (Censored so those who don't already know to maintain there innocence) yeah Why Isn't any action being taken against this >.< (I know It's not on the same level...but surely you can see my point.)

 

[alandavidson]

Is there some sentence in which they can get lit on fire?
Then left to burn out in some deep dark hole somewhere so that they can never escape.
Then eaten by a pig.

Honestly, i'm so glad these sick bastards got caught, today is a good day for justice.

BURN THEM WITH FIRE
BURN THEM WITH FIRE
BURN THEM WITH FIRE

People can be sick. Whoever harms a child (or even gets off to that) deserves the worst punishment imaginable.

 

[sageoftruth]

Wow. I clicked this thread ready to defend them, but this is serious. It's like organized child rape. To hell with them.

 

[JezebelinHell]

Nope, I am very not special in my absolute rejection of pedophilia. I got plenty of company "on my pedestal" (lol)

Its our responsibility as a society to protect children. I would be all about helping pedophiles if I could believe that there is way to help them, but the truth is there isn't a way to help them, they are born with this defect and there is no fixing it.

The things you suggest to "help them" are actually just enabling them to indulge, not doing anything to correct the problem. And the idea that CP could be produced (think about what that entails) for doctors to hand out is so unbelievably bad that I begin to wonder if you're not just making this argument for laughs.

*joins you on your pedestal* I hope it is getting a bit crowded. I will not read the numerous pages of this thread because I know it will make me very ill at this point.

There is something seriously wrong with someone that could look at a child and be sexually excited. That is not what we are wired to do. I can understand not liking kids but to instead have the reaction of being excited by them even though society and instinct tells you to protect them is so off the norm and can effect another human being so deeply and permanently that it cannot be accepted.

And seriously, those of you saying it, who would actually think that porn could possibly control a desire? I watch porn dealing with my particular, completely legal predilections and I would have to say my desire for it is not lessened. It is just a method to get by and getting by is certainly not controlling it. Be honest with yourself about that at least.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The taboo effect makes a lot of people interested, at least that's my view on things. It's like with drinking. In USA if you're not 21 it's illegal to drink thus every person gets alcohol poisoning during their 21st birthday party. If it was like Europe where kids normally have a supervised sip of wine with their meals together with their family (but then families would have to eat together for that to happen...) then they wouldn't grow up to think of drinking as such a huge special deal.


I think vilifying behaviors to such an extent will attract antisocial elements who just wanna lash out against society and they'll pick the most hot-button issue they can, which is also an indirect cause of harm to children just like actual child porn and those who watch but not make it.



So, what we need to do to fix this? Well, we can't just let em go, we can't ignore it now, it has already become the forbidden fruit and thus the sweetest. The only thing that would work is some new evil materializing and somehow overruling pederasty as the biggest evil a person could do in this country, attracting the crazies away from the poor kids.

 

[KiqJaq]

Okay I'm not typing this to provoke any sort of reaction so hear me out please.
Firstly I will stress I fully acknowledge that this is a very serious issue and it's good to know that (I Assume) The sites been taking down BUT how can the authorities be so brazen about there success in the fight against Child pornography when all you have to do is go to Google and type "Jail****" (Censored so those who don't already know to maintain there innocence) yeah Why Isn't any action being taken against this >.< (I know It's not on the same level...but surely you can see my point.)

No I don't see your point at all >.>
Even working under the assumption that being attracted to kids is inherently evil and harmful to those around you, would you really try and remove all pictures of attractive teens and children from the internet? If not, I'm not sure what else you could do since that's all that jail**** (really?) is.

Plus, that usually doesn't harm anyone. Often the pictures are self-taken or taken by friends, and then later found by people interested in that sort of thing. I can hardly justify taking steps to eradicate something that harms no one, even assuming cleansing the internet is possible at this stage.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

... how would sending caught pedophiles to therapy rather than jail remove any amount of stigma from from it?

Because with time people will come to associate pedophilia with being a mental illness and fucking a child with rape and child abuse. Because at the very least those pedophiles would learn how to control their urges and manage to live a relatively decent life. Because at the very least we wouldn't be condemning people who suffer from a mental illness to jail.

Granted, maybe not all pedophiles are in need of therapy as long as they do not abuse children. Still...

And what would a professional do? Cure him of his attraction? I suppose I'd better try and get my gay friend to a therapist as well so he can have normal turn-ons as well?

I never said homosexuality was not normal human sexual behaviour. During our entire discussion I proclaimed pedophilia to be a deviation of normal human sexual behaviour and that through the use of therapy and certain drugs those urges could be controlled if not downright removed.

Homosexuality is normal and has always been normal.

The point is that pedophilia isn't an illness any more than a foot fetish is.

But it IS a mental illness. I've already explained countless times why and I don't feel the need to do so again. I understand why you might be reluctant to say it is, since you supposedly have a friend who is a pedophile. Still, it is an abnormal deviation of human sexual tendencies and is classified as a mental illness

The difference is obviously the child abuse, which isn't a compulsory act upon realizing you like kids.

That is true, however all mental illnesses have the potential to degenerate into something much worse.

If they aren't hurting anyone and aren't likely to, then I see no reason for their lives to be intruded upon unless they want to seek help themselves.

I'm not saying we should. However, this is a slippery slope. Would a pedophile willingly go to therapy once their illness becomes to hard to manage by themselves? There's already a huge stigma associated with mental illnesses but the stigma associated with pedophilia is much higher.

I suffer from Generalized Anxiety Disorder. I refused to receive help and there was a time when I had panic attacks almost every few hours. I'm not saying eventually a pedophile will rape a child but it is not entirely unfeasable and I believe removing the stigma associated with pedophilia is the first step in giving the pedophiles a reason to treat seek help for their disorder.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

There's a difference between saying "They need help" and "We shouldn't punish them for watching CP". I say that yes, they should get help. But part of that is admiting you've a problem and that what is being done is wrong. Imagine if we did the same with AA. "What you guys are doing is beyond your controll". That absolves them of reasons to correct their actions.

You seem to be arguing that rather then punish these people for exploiting children, we should just send them to therapy. And that's were I say "No".

I never said their actions weren't wrong and I never said they shouldn't be made aware of that. However, they have a mental illness. What I'm saying is that you should not punish them for viewing child pornography but instead help them cope with their illness. Sending them to jail will only exacerbate an already existing condition and frankly putting pedophiles in the same category as child molesters is just plain fucking stupid.

No, I don't believe we should punish them. They did not molest children, they watched child pornography. There's a huge fucking difference between the two. They need help, not jailtime.

 

[DexterNorgam]

self-snip

*joins you on your pedestal* I hope it is getting a bit crowded. I will not read the numerous pages of this thread because I know it will make me very ill at this point.

There is something seriously wrong with someone that could look at a child and be sexually excited. That is not what we are wired to do. I can understand not liking kids but to instead have the reaction of being excited by them even though society and instinct tells you to protect them is so off the norm and can effect another human being so deeply and permanently that it cannot be accepted.

And seriously, those of you saying it, who would actually think that porn could possibly control a desire? I watch porn dealing with my particular, completely legal predilections and I would have to say my desire for it is not lessened. It is just a method to get by and getting by is certainly not controlling it. Be honest with yourself about that at least.

Thank you, and welcome to the pedestal!

You make a great point, my wife and I are not above viewing a little standard pornography. We had a weekend at an amazing hotel where each room has a private pool and free porn on the plasma screen. Our viewing the porn hasn't lessened our desire for each other one bit.

 

[llew]

they deserve to be put in jail, not because they were peadophiles, but because they had a fucking forum thread basically advertising it, when law enforcement can trace IP addresses and view personal information with appropriate suspicion... those guys were retarded (oh and good thing they were caught, 72 sickos of the streets, only several thousand to go... no pressure...)