Female Friendzone?

[Jacco]

And I say this as a social psychology major.

Internet credibility still zero.

It can and does happen.

I'm sorry, to what are you referring?

 

[Jacco]

I was close to being completely friendzoned, but after actually understanding that he was never gonna go anywhere with our "friendship" igot pissed, raged about him, cried a lot and then i moved on. Yes i still remember him, but i am not reminded constantly of how much i would like to be with him and getting crushed everytime i am "just one of the guys".

So, yes . It happens to women, but i guess we are just not as loud about it. Mostly because we feel it as a horrible defeat and we do not like to dwell in those with all the feelin and period stuff we also have to focus on...

So basically what you're saying is that you are the "friend zoned" person who my entire post was railing against?

 

[senordesol]

The 'whatever, just date someone else' attitude really shows a lack of understanding or care for the emotional weight unrequited love can put on a person. Yes: it is a self-imposed state, and yes: lashing out against the one who spurned you isn't fair (and I'm sorry it happened to you). But it's there! Some people never see it, and some people are good at avoiding it, but it is a thing! Some sympathy, rather than cynicism would not go amiss.

The emotions wrapped up in it can be crippling and are worth far more examination than 'eh, learn 2 deel wiht rejection n00b!'. Jeez, would you (metaphorical, not actual) tell a kid to 'just get over it' when the dog he raised from a puppy dies?

I still think you are presenting those people too much as victims.
And maybe some of them are. Obviously, everyone experiences heartbreaks, and some that stay with them for a very long time.
But being hurt does not entitle people to act however they want.

I don't feel I should have to sympathize with the person who was horrible to me, because they certainly didn't sympathize with me.

I would not tell a kid to `just get over it`, but I also would not sympathize if he decided that the dog dying meant he could strangle the cat.


EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying that there aren't people who are truly good and get hurt. There are. I'm just saying portraying this as a one-sided black-and-white issue is oversimplifying.

If they are 'victims', they are making victims of themselves. Again I argue that FZ is more a self-imposed depressive condition than anything else. BUT that absolutely DOES NOT excuse lashing out at anyone just because they rebuffed you. As stated previously, it is NOT fair to give someone that sort of power over you without their knowing or consent. So we're in agreement on that much.

If I am portraying this as black-and-white, I apologize. That's not my intent. Again, I stress: I only wish to dispel the notion that FZ does not exist. The other considerations (i.e. what happens afterward) are well worth exploring, of course. It is perfectly possible for someone to be depressed AND a jerk (as what sounds like was the case with your...friend). I don't dispute that for a second.

Certainly a discussion along the lines of 'So you're in the friendzone, what now?' would be productive. But these constant protestations that someone 'was only in it for the sex and needs to learn how to handle rejection' are false and, frankly, infuriating (nothing directed at you, specifically, of course).

People who act in a vindictive fashion for being in the friendzone are reproachable, I agree. People who willingly, however, act within the best interest of their friend or friendship once sequestered there are admirable. In both cases, however, its very existence has to be established as truth.

 

[senordesol]

I've already admitted that I've got baggage in this conversation.

I feel the wikipedia definition fails to explore the real crux of the matter (the one pertinent to this conversation, anyway) and propagates my issues with the over-all dismissive attitudes toward people afflicted by such a condition. The notion that the friendzoned were only after sex or should 'just move on' is dismissive, insulting, and pretty damn cruel.

The pining and ever-present frustration deserves a mention as does the resentment and depression. Now, while we can debate the definition all day, I'm more interested in disabusing the notions that the condition does not exist at all - that heavily invested unrequited lovers unable to satisfy their romantic needs are simply being over-dramatic.

Guess what? We all have baggage. We're just not bringing it with us into the conversation.

People who are friend zoned are not necessarily heavily invested or over dramatic. But you were in your past experiences and think therefor the definition of the word should be exactly what you experienced it to be. I think you would be much more happy and succesful relationshipwise if you focused a little less on yourself, your pain and needs and started listening and paying attention at what happens around you.

Because changing the definition of a word to include your personal experiences with it, that's going slightly far.

Fine. I'll accept that. But the concern remains: do you agree that it exists either in the clinical definition you describe or my over-dramatic contention?

 

[PhreakyDee]

I was close to being completely friendzoned, but after actually understanding that he was never gonna go anywhere with our "friendship" igot pissed, raged about him, cried a lot and then i moved on. Yes i still remember him, but i am not reminded constantly of how much i would like to be with him and getting crushed everytime i am "just one of the guys".

So, yes . It happens to women, but i guess we are just not as loud about it. Mostly because we feel it as a horrible defeat and we do not like to dwell in those with all the feelin and period stuff we also have to focus on...

So basically what you're saying is that you are the "friend zoned" person who my entire post was railing against?

What I replied to in my first post was simply that males has a tendency to just see a female being rejected only to go after the first and the best on their "secret 'who is to be my boyfriend' list", giving an illusion that she took the first one for granted. What he does not see is the endless insecurity and personal torture she is unleashing upon herself. What most friendzoned guys rarely see is that there may actually be a girl just waiting for them to stop worrying about their friendzoning so that he can go right over to her and say hi. But in most cases he is friendzoning her. It's an annoying circle in which I don't really see a bad one, just a bunch of confused and lost people.

Females tend to boil rejection up in themselves, mostly because, yes. It is usually the male who is to be the one "going for it." When it's the female she tends to take a "bigger social risk" when it comes to the "younger ages" (Read late teen).

As for myself, this was a one-timer. I've not really tried it again because I'm scared of being rejected, tending to keep such emotions boiled up, and guys who is overly friendly (read bring flowers, wanna go watch a movie just us two, stuff like that) towards me tend to freak me out. Then again I can only really speak for myself. I need observable subjects ._.

Maybe I am that, maybe not. Note it took me quite a while to get over that guy. quite a lot longer than it would have taken, had we started dating and then broken up after just a week...

 

[Bat Vader]

The "friendzone" does not exist: Man up, grow a pair and ask said person of desire out. If you are rejected, realise that not everyone want to get in your pants.

If you want to get laid so badly go to a bar and get some floozy drunk.

It's dismissals like these that make me sad. Dismissals like these that make the friendzone all the more lonely.

It's not about sex. It's not even about the object of desire. It's the crushing knowledge that you are not good enough -not for her- and, apparently, not for anyone.

The friendzone does exist. I have tread that lonely valley before. It is not a matter of 'sacking up'. If no one wants you; the sack gets you no further be it full or empty.

It sounds like you want friendship. This sounds brash, but how hard is it to go up to classmates or someone at a cafe and just talk to them? Seriously I've no issue with talking to people and making friends.

Not everyone is good in social situations though. I have social anxiety. The idea of having to go up and talk to someone terrifies me. There are times I can't even leave the house because I am too scared to deal with people.

 

[Vladimir Stamenov]

What Bat Vader said. I don't have social anxiety, but introverted as I am, I've never asked a girl out on a date officially. It's easier to start out as friends. BTW, here's an interesting article that mentions research data that introverts tend more towards two types of love: storge, which is love that stems from friendship first and mania, the obssesive type of love. Now, my data realting to myself and friends is anecdotal, but that does seem to be the case. A girl that I liked a lot and never actually got anywhere with had me feel storge forher and then a bit of mania, before I "unliked" her. http://www.cracked.com/article_20204_5-psychology-studies-every-awkward-teenager-should-read.html

 

[Madgamer13]

I tend to have quite a few issues in interacting romantically with women, so it is quite common for me to react in unpredictable ways to someone who I learn is interested in me. This has led to 'friendzoning' women in the past when my lack of confidence simply couldn't handle them.

One thing I have noticed however, is that no woman has ever approached me directly to say that she liked me, although endlessly implied by other means. It may be one of the reasons I react so badly to those types of 'signals' as I do not like to be subtle about what I consider to be important issues.

I am quickly approaching the thirty year old virgin status however, so I'm sure I'll eventually come across a woman who'll approach me as an equal, instead of the elusive and sophisticated lady.

 

[Vladimir Stamenov]

And if not you can always wait for the 40 year mark, when Seth Rogen comes to your aid! Sorry, bad joke, but I couldn't help myself. And yes, why do women use subtlety?? Some people are just emotionally dumb, we need honesty. Girls should be more like guys, I'm sick of these gender roles! We tried to hit it off with a girl I know and it didn't wok out, but we're still friends, and what I like about her is that she was the initiator! Though maybe that is due to her being a bit of a tomboy (likes and trains kickboxing, climbing, dead baby jokes and so on)... Whatever, there need to be more girls like this! Of course a lot of guys, me included like coyness, but not at this expense.

 

[Vladimir Stamenov]

...
404 Error. No reply found to someone who didn't pause to read ANYTHING of what anyone has said on the topic.

 

[Madgamer13]

Because it's a male only thing, as simple as that.

Boys are those who think if they are nice with a girl, that girl with give them a BJ for a reward. Girls don't have this escheved way of thinking, so that's why no girl ever complains about being friendzoned.

How can the friendzone be a male only thing when you admit yourself in your own comment that girls are also friendzoned?

Contrived ways of thinking is what makes the relations between men and women so difficult to properly communicate, men have one way of thinking of romance and women usually have another entirely, yet both sides of the gender fence tends to experience the same thing.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

I'd assume ugly chicks who are fun to party with get friendzoned as opposed to nozoned. Though iunno, I couldn't see it happening too much.

Also its hilarious how many people think the friendzone isn't a real thing. Being in the friendzone means you get rejected romantically but not socially. How is that debatable as even close to not being a real thing? I mean it's not arbitrary by any means, you get put in the friendzone for a REASON, I think people often get cause and effect mixed up when it comes to the friendzone, but it's undeniably a real social happening.

 

[hooblabla6262]

I really don't like calling it "attraction" because I feel like that doesn't delineate between pure physical attraction and romantic chemistry. I don't like conflating the two because I think it's more complicated than that. One does not necessarily lead to the other, but sometimes it can. I don't see them as the same thing, because if physical attraction on its own is always the silver bullet when it comes to true love then that doesn't explain why old couples can remain in love long into their golden years. There is an element of physical attraction to love, to be sure, but if that's all you're going to base your relationships on then they aren't going to have much staying power, and you're going to have to rely upon you're going to hope both of your standards change as you get up in years.

Also, I think the definition you provided for "romantic chemistry" is exactly the opposite of what I meant. It's not "I'm not attracted to them and I don't know what to call it," having romantic chemistry is "I'm attracted to them and I don't know exactly why."

All true. Most relationships need both a physical attraction as well as a basis of common ground. Whereas a friendship is generally just the latter and not the former. So you can see how I might draw the conclusion that a "friendzone" situation would be exactly that.

Also, when I defined romantic chemistry, I was defining it from the perspective of someone declaring that there was none. I can see how that may be confusing, my bad. But we do have the same definition.

 

[gazumped]

This actually made me wonder. Is there any difference between a girl/woman who keeps sleeping with a guy hoping for him to change his mind and accept the relationship. And the guy who keeps being nice/being there/being friendzoned in the hope for the same?

Having been the girl/woman sleeping with a friend I was in love with because I was sure that if I gave him everything while asking for nothing in return he'd decide off of his own back to make a commitment to me despite having nothing to gain from it... I can quite assuredly say that I was equally if not more pathetic as anyone who does the same but without the sex bit.

Most relationships need both a physical attraction as well as a basis of common ground.

I'd just like to pop up to point out that while this is true, physical attraction often develops after romantic attraction. Personally, I've had a habit of meeting people that I initially objectively find rather physically unappealling, but once they open their mouths I inexplicably want to have lots of sex with them. In fact I've even formed two long term relationships with such people.

I think this is also why, after a nasty break up, a person can look back on a person they've dated and go 'How did I not realise how ugly they are?'

(Edited last sentence because of clumsy construction.)

 

[Rasor]

I have "friend zoned" a lady before, she approached me as if she was entitled to have my affections simply because she thought she was desirable, that I should be thankful for her advances because I'm less than attractive.
I suppose when I realised that she felt like she could treat me like that because "boys always want it" I made a point to treat her interactions as sexual harassment. Felt like shit to be objectified like that.
Funnily enough after I made a point of not showing her any romantic interest she tried pretty hard in more traditional ways to make me fall for her. Of course I never let her have the satisfaction of returning the affection.

I suppose the friend zone thing is a male partner-entitlement issue.

Female partner-entitlement is a slightly different beast, denying that probably doesn't cont as friend-zoning.

Both types of partner-entitlement is a disgusting product of modern society

 

[Smeatza]

I think this is also why, after a nasty break up, a person can look back on a person they've dated and go 'How did I not realise how ugly they are?'

I recently read some literature that suggested that people in happy relationships will continue to find each other attractive indefinitely. For example, a happily married couple of which both halves are getting grey, wrinkly and fat will still find each other attractive in spite of there being no physical reason.
The human mind is a powerful thing.

OT: I imagine due to the fundamental differences in how males and females think. The "friendzone" could only be a male invention, to be used by males in the majority.
They say you don't get many female spree-killers because females tend to internalise their problems and blame them on themselves. Well blaming the "friendzone" is a way of blaming another party, instead of yourself.
Something a male is much more likely to do.